View Full Version : Speakers from EB Accoustics
These products seem to be generating a lot of interest:
http://www.ebacoustics.com/
Has anyone heard them?
They seem to use mass produced drivers but a cabinet construction designed to move resonances from the critical mid-band in a similar way to the BBC tradition speakers.
What do we know about these boxes, and how un-boxey they can sound?
The price undercuts Harbeth and Spendor significantly, but they are sold direct, without dealer margins.
hifi_dave
12-08-2010, 14:36
They could be the next big thing !!!
Why don't you try them at home for 30 days with a no quibble refund if you don't like them ?
You can't go wrong and you can tell us all what they are like.
A possibility, but I wondered if anyone had already done so.
And anyway, Dave, your ears are more experienced than mine . . .
HighFidelityGuy
12-08-2010, 14:46
This is the way to go in my oppinion, selling gear dirrectly that is. I'd much rather buy something and listen to it at home for a couple of weeks knowing I can return it for a full refund than listen to somthing in store only to find it sounds different at home.
I've not heard of these before but they look good on paper what with the well designed and finished cabinets and point to point wiring on the crossover. If I was looking for some small speakers I'd definitley give them a try.
Ali Tait
12-08-2010, 15:49
A possibility, but I wondered if anyone had already done so.
And anyway, Dave, your ears are more experienced than mine . . .
I don't think the experienced bit comes into it at all.The only ears the speakers need to please are yours.Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks!
I watched a video interview with Peter Comeau and he mentioned he helped design the crossover i believe.
ebrichard
13-08-2010, 07:41
I watched a video interview with Peter Comeau and he mentioned he helped design the crossover i believe.
Wow!. A forum full of truth. This is a rarity indeed.
Yes. Peter did indeed work on the EB1 crossover but he did a little more than that. He also built the original website. Obviously, when he joined IAG all of this was pulled round and is now run by me. The fact that Peter was the other side of the world and a conflict of interest meant it had to be this way.
Can't get over this forum full of sensible people!!
Welcome Richard. I presume Richard Allen of EB Accoustics.
Please tell us about your products and your plans.
How do your cabinets compare in construction and performance to those made in the BBC "thin wall" tradition?
What sort of crossovers are you using?
Tell about your drivers and their provenance.
Please.
Will that do for starters?
You will find a wide range of approaches to HiFi on this forum.
Most of us realise you have to choose your compromises, and folk will choose differently, or have their domestic circumstances choose for them.
aquapiranha
13-08-2010, 09:59
I think they look like great, no nonsense speakers to me, and if the reviews are to be believed, they must be great value for money too.
Hi Richard,
Welcome to AOS! :)
Would you like a trade account opened up? If so, you will be able to advertise your products free of charge in our trade area.
Wow!. A forum full of truth. This is a rarity indeed.
Lol - thanks... We do our best ;)
Yes. Peter did indeed work on the EB1 crossover but he did a little more than that. He also built the original website. Obviously, when he joined IAG all of this was pulled round and is now run by me. The fact that Peter was the other side of the world and a conflict of interest meant it had to be this way.
Thanks for the clarification on that matter.
Can't get over this forum full of sensible people!!
Indeed, and I can only apologise for the unfortunate treatment you received on the HDD Audio Forum, where unfortunately blinkered minds, arrogance and dogma prevails over tolerance and progressive thinking :rolleyes:
You will find the attitude here rather different. I look forward to reading your erudite contributions on all matters audio related in due course. Enjoy! :cool:
Marco.
Anyway, let's get back to discussing the product in question . . .
Yes, let's.
I would like to see these products properly discussed. They could be the choice for me to replace my Maxims in my flat.
anthonyTD
13-08-2010, 15:11
hi all,
just had a quick glance through the website and they look great, and if they perform as good then i think they could be a real bargain.
i would love to see the frequency versus impedance curves, the dip to just under 6 ohm from the nominal looks promising for valve amps!
look forward to reading more on these.
regards,anthony,TD...
quadsugdenman
13-08-2010, 15:16
These could be what I need to replace my ageing Harbeths!! :)
Great way of marketing and selling something that looks good on paper with a 'put yer money where yer mouth is' guarentee.
Allowing you to try them in the best listening environment there is - Yours!!! Got to be right ;)
The only speaker manufacturer that was almost forced to provide any curves etc was AVI and I suppose they deserved it. Harbeth refuse point-blank to supply any measurements, although Stereofile has tested and published results I believe (they loved the P3ESR brian...).
The indications are that these speakers DON'T use £8 Chinese drivers inside, but something rather more costly. I'd echo the sentiments that crossovers really don't need 18 months to design, unless they were casually looked at at various times during this period.
These could be what I need to replace my ageing Harbeths!! :)
Great way of marketing and selling something that looks good on paper with a 'put yer money where yer mouth is' guarentee.
Allowing you to try them in the best listening environment there is - Yours!!! Got to be right ;)
What Harbeths do you have? Maybe Brian would be interested...?
It was Richard in tongue-in-cheek mode, winding the HDD faithful up a little, that's all.
EB1's are passive for £500 or thereabouts. Active, they'd be a grand or so I suspect and although the market is growing for DECENT active speakers at a fair price, many of the sub £1K ones are reported to have a thumped up mid-bass and a tizzed up treble at the moment to emphasise "detail." Any of us who've lived with LS3/5a's (ghastly things) for any length of time will understand this, as the tweeter mesh deliberately fizzed up the T27 tweeter further to better reproduce distortion and hiss in the programme material..
Yep. So this thread is for discussing the merits (and weaknesses) of two passive speakers the EB1 (at £500) and the EB2 (at £700). It is for learning as much about them as possible, and seeking as much info. as the makers will give us, and as many opinions as can be had from those who have heard them.
The combination of well chosen mass produced drivers with a well designed crossover and enclosures that minimise colouration is what interest's me - and the price!
quadsugdenman
13-08-2010, 16:45
What Harbeths do you have? Maybe Brian would be interested...?
Hi David,
I have a pair of HLK6SE which are about 12 years old. They are unfortunately in grey Nextel which is not to everyone's taste. They still sound very good but I would like to hear and try something else.
:)
grey Nextel which is not to everyone's taste.
Not to my (our) taste. :)
ebrichard
13-08-2010, 17:53
Don't apologise on someone else's behalf Marco. you don't moderate it. Don't think anyone does. Anyway, let's move on.
If you hae questions, please ask and I'll try to answer them.
ebrichard
13-08-2010, 17:55
Don't apologise on someone else's behalf Marco. you don't moderate it. Don't think anyone does. Anyway, let's move on.
If you hae questions, please ask and I'll try to answer them.
OOOOPS! Wrong thread! Sorry guys.
Quoting myself in post #8 then:
Please tell us about your products and your plans.
How do your cabinets compare in construction and performance to those made in the BBC "thin wall" tradition?
What sort of crossovers are you using?
Tell us about your drivers and their provenance.
Please
aquapiranha
13-08-2010, 17:59
Don't apologise on someone else's behalf Marco. you don't moderate it. Don't think anyone does. Anyway, let's move on.
If you hae questions, please ask and I'll try to answer them.
One or two...
1, who makes the drivers, and do you mod them in any way?
2, The EB1 has white 'ring' around the tweeter, any reason why it is not the same as the one on the EB2?
3, What amplifier power do you expect will drive them without issues?
4, will you be offering any other finishes in the future?
5, why not have a comp in one of the mags so I can win a pair.....?
:lol:
Don't apologise on someone else's behalf Marco. you don't moderate it. Don't think anyone does. Anyway, let's move on.
If you hae questions, please ask and I'll try to answer them.
Ok, no worries. Would you like a trade account opened up, and if so, in what name? I did ask earlier - lol! ;)
Marco.
ebrichard
13-08-2010, 18:08
Quoting myself in post #8 then:
Please tell us about your products and your plans.
How do your cabinets compare in construction and performance to those made in the BBC "thin wall" tradition?
What sort of crossovers are you using?
Tell us about your drivers and their provenance.
Please
I don't honestly know about the BBC approach. I haen't studied it. When I design, I try not to look at other people's builds because it tends to change my attitude towards the design. One thing is for certain. I was sick of MDF cabinets.
I had already started with the composites when I first met Peter Comeau. We both had the same beliefs as regards materials. Peter liked chipboard ( Heybrook HB1 etc ). I found the sound a little woolly for my taste. We agreed MDF on it's own was horrible, damped or otherwise. I started work on a composite that we called 'Arcena'. This was a combination of chip and MDF. The wooliness of the chipboard was offset by the midrange resonance of the MDF, effectiely cancelling each other out of the listening band. The World Designs 25T's were built using this but I wanted to go further.
Any Hi Fi show demos in the pipeline Richard?
And tell us about the crossovers, Richard. How complex are they?
ebrichard
14-08-2010, 11:19
One or two...
1, who makes the drivers, and do you mod them in any way?
2, The EB1 has white 'ring' around the tweeter, any reason why it is not the same as the one on the EB2?
3, What amplifier power do you expect will drive them without issues?
4, will you be offering any other finishes in the future?
5, why not have a comp in one of the mags so I can win a pair.....?
:lol:
1, The bass unit is from Visaton. Good capable unit and ideal for the size of cabinet. It is unmodified.
2,The EB2 was designed quite recently and that tweeter will find it's way into the EB1 in the new year.
3, EB1 and 2 work well with any amplifier capable of sustaining 50 watts per side into 8 ohms. Doesn't mean yer gonna use it but at least the power supply doesn't start to 'collapse' at around number 10 on the volume control.
4, No. The 2 finishes we already supply causes enough production headaches as it is.
5, Hmmmmm!!;)
ebrichard
14-08-2010, 11:24
Any Hi Fi show demos in the pipeline Richard?
Hi Colin.
As it's an online business where the products are used in your environment, using a Hotel suite or bedroom puts it back in the 'dealer listening room' situation. I can't make my mind up on that one, I really can't.
ebrichard
14-08-2010, 11:36
And tell us about the crossovers, Richard. How complex are they?
Interesting 1 this.
EB1's crossover is a 12dB/12dB array. It is minimalist by some standards so there are less components inline to 'muddy' the waters, so to speak. I think this works well because EB1 is a vented enclosure.
EB2, being a closed box, taxed me a little. I've always been in favour of 3rd order Butterworth filters for the high pass section because it gives me 1st order phase response. Plus, the skirt is that much steeper. I don't normally do this on the low pass section but, with EB2's characteristics, the steeper roll off was necessary in order to interface the two drivers correctly. I think but not sure, that this is down to the stored energy in the box whereas there is less in a vented box.
Inductor quality plays a huge role in crossover design. We wind our own inductors. Most 'stock' coils come with either a 5 or 10% tolerance. We wind to the exact value required. When testing before despatch, the impedance plots mirror each other on the overlay. That, to me, is a pair of loudspeakers.
Robin Marshall (Audiomaster, Epos and designer for MA and Mission amongst others) used to have his crossover coils hand-wound and tested when he made speakers with crossovers.
You know, the EB2 is crying out for "activation," as you could do the more complex crossovers far better this way. Maybe an EB3A at some point as the market develops. The one thing you have on your side is flexibility, not having pidgeon-holed yourself into one "camp" or another, if you see what I mean :lol: I'm sure there are competitive "board-stuffers" who could make the electronics at a good price for you...
When testing before despatch, the impedance plots mirror each other on the overlay. That, to me, is a pair of loudspeakers.
May we see some more technical stuff? Nice plots of impedance, frequency and output?
What happens to the bass response of both speakers, how and where does it fall, and is there a hump?
You know, the EB2 is crying out for "activation,"
I like Dave's suggestion of a future active, maybe even an upgrade path from both passives already made.
A partnership with someone like Stan Beresford could be interesting. A DAC-Pre with active crossovers in the same box - connect to a pair of stereo amps of the customer's choice or a multichannel AV power amp and on to the loudspeakers.
Would it be possible to make such a DAC-Pre-Crossover switch-able between various speaker models?
ebrichard
14-08-2010, 19:40
Robin Marshall (Audiomaster, Epos and designer for MA and Mission amongst others) used to have his crossover coils hand-wound and tested when he made speakers with crossovers.
You know, the EB2 is crying out for "activation," as you could do the more complex crossovers far better this way. Maybe an EB3A at some point as the market develops. The one thing you have on your side is flexibility, not having pidgeon-holed yourself into one "camp" or another, if you see what I mean :lol: I'm sure there are competitive "board-stuffers" who could make the electronics at a good price for you...
Neither of the crossovers are that complex but I take your point. I have many people who can build the designs for me. Amps are not a problem. What hurts us as a manufacturer is the £3000+ bill for CE and UL approval. This is probably why a lot of companies ( small ) don't go there. :steam:
Would i be right in thinking the EB2 is the most room friendly i.e medium room close to a wall?
The only closed box speaker ive heard is the Spendor SA1. Lovely speaker but way to expensive for me
Some interesting chatter here
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/1/373442/ShowThread.aspx
ebrichard
14-08-2010, 20:53
Would i be right in thinking the EB2 is the most room friendly i.e medium room close to a wall?
The only closed box speaker ive heard is the Spendor SA1. Lovely speaker but way to expensive for me
EB2 is probably the most room friendly because it is a closed box.
ebrichard
14-08-2010, 20:57
Some interesting chatter here
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/1/373442/ShowThread.aspx
And that's how the EB2 came about. Unlike the 'other' forum where you are told what you're going to have, I decided, for business reasons, to ask what was wanted. It is pointless me sat there designing what I think people want, only to be told they want something different. The best way to rack n' ruin is to tell your customers what they need. Ask and you will be told.
And that's how the EB2 came about. Unlike the 'other' forum where you are told what you're going to have, I decided, for business reasons, to ask what was wanted. It is pointless me sat there designing what I think people want, only to be told they want something different. The best way to rack n' ruin is to tell your customers what they need. Ask and you will be told.
Oh I love it :lol: :respect:
I take the point about the three grand type approval charges, but maybe one day, you'll be able to take these speakers to the next obvious level. In the meantime, good luck with them.. I knew Peter C from his Heybrook days and enjoyed many long chats with him and know he's one who can tweak things and say WHY he's done what he's done, if you know what I mean..
aquapiranha
14-08-2010, 22:30
1, The bass unit is from Visaton. Good capable unit and ideal for the size of cabinet. It is unmodified.
2,The EB2 was designed quite recently and that tweeter will find it's way into the EB1 in the new year.
3, EB1 and 2 work well with any amplifier capable of sustaining 50 watts per side into 8 ohms. Doesn't mean yer gonna use it but at least the power supply doesn't start to 'collapse' at around number 10 on the volume control.
4, No. The 2 finishes we already supply causes enough production headaches as it is.
5, Hmmmmm!!;)
Thanks Richard. As it happens I am using a Visaton unit now, the B200 in OB with a couple of Alpha 15's either side, but I am not getting what I want. I may go in anlther direction I don't know yet. Plus, the room I am moving into is smaller that the current one so I may need a change anyway. The EB1 looks very nice, I just can't afford them now - hence the competition lol..
Steve
This could be the new commercial business model that will take us through the recession. Ask the customer what they want. I like it.
How about a matching sub Richard? I think most of you customers would snap one up at your pricing structure.
May we see some more technical stuff? Nice plots of impedance, frequency and output?
What happens to the bass response of both speakers, how and where does it fall, and is there a hump?
Bump
Brian, you're being naughty. No other speaker manufacturer posts these things and when they did (I'm remembering some MF ones), they squashed up the scale so they looked to be completely "flat."
Brian, you're being naughty. No other speaker manufacturer posts these things and when they did (I'm remembering some MF ones), they squashed up the scale so they looked to be completely "flat."
Only after transparency, Dave.
Hi Richard,
And that's how the EB2 came about. Unlike the 'other' forum where you are told what you're going to have, I decided, for business reasons, to ask what was wanted. It is pointless me sat there designing what I think people want, only to be told they want something different. The best way to rack n' ruin is to tell your customers what they need. Ask and you will be told.
Hehehe... Feckin' yee-hah! You're settling in here just nicely :lol:
Trust me, anyone who follows the business model highlighted above is eventually doomed to failure ;)
Keep up the good work!
Marco.
Techno Commander
15-08-2010, 11:26
1, The bass unit is from Visaton. Good capable unit and ideal for the size of cabinet. It is unmodified.
Good choice. Visaton produce some excellent drivers. I have one of their mids in my speakers. They also make some rather good OFC inductors too.
Trust me, anyone who follows the business model highlighted above is eventually doomed to failure ;)
Seems OK for now.
The one (two) box solution has a lot going for it in many circumstances.
http://awards.whathifi.com/
You had better get voting.
Hi Brian,
So are you advocating that people should be told what gear to buy by an arrogant, blinkered and dogmatic despot, such as he who shall remain nameless?
Because that's the behaviour Richard was referring to above, and which Dave and I highlighted!
Marco.
So are you advocating that people should be told what gear to buy . . .
No Marco, I am not, I am just pointing out that, at the moment, AVI seems to the sailing along quite nicely. They have a good product that will suit many, and will not suit others.
Live and let live?
And if there are personal issues, then dignity is best maintained in silence.
I refer to the board ethos:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17
Post #1
Hi Brian,
They might be "sailing along quite nicely" for now (we only have AJ's word on that - and of course we all know how prone he is to exaggerating), but trust me, any company fronted by a man near devoid of people skills will eventually come a cropper, regardless of how good the products are!
Marco.
Martyn Miles
01-02-2014, 05:42
I have only just discovered the EB1 speakers. ( I do live a sheltered life with my Harbeth P3ESRs...)
Speaker technology moves on. Rice and Kellogg would be amazed at the developments !
These EB 1s have certainly caused comment here on TAOS and the Manufacturer has been forthcoming and helpful. It makes a change...
Martyn M.
Have you heard the EB!s, Martyn? If so, how do you compare them to your P3ESTs?
What is the turn-round time from order to delivery these days Richard?
Martyn Miles
01-02-2014, 13:46
Have you heard the EB1s, Martyn? If so, how do you compare them to your P3ESRs?
I haven't compared them. It's the sheltered life I lead !
Harbeth's 'ESRs are the best small loudspeakers I have ever had in my home. I have 'dabbled ' with LS3/5as, original Spendor SA1s and various JBLs, mainly Control 1s .
The EB philosophy appeals to me...
M Miles.
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