View Full Version : I’m thinking of flogging the lot
As my passion for Hifi wanes I’m THINKING of selling off my Hifi which comprises of my recently bought Quad vena II , quad 909 and my Kef reference 107/2’s + Kube.
The quads will sell quickly I believe but these fantastic speakers may take time especially as I’m not going to be offering them at a bargain price but a price that I believe they are worth ( £1800 to established members)
I haven’t listed them as for sale yet as I’m still not sure about letting them go .
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They are superb speakers, don't know what they sell for these days though.
They are superb speakers, don't know what they sell for these days though.
Anything from £900 for a bad pair to £2500
Mine are about as good they get .
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I think if they still made them they would be about ten grand new. KEF got everything right with them IMO.
As my passion for Hifi wanes...
What's caused this then, Andrew? Great speakers btw, from the says when KEF were 'propa'. Maidstones were another such design. In any case, I doubt you'll have any problem selling yours, but it would be nice to try and address why you appear to have lost your passion for audio:)
Marco.
What's caused this then, Andrew? Great speakers btw, from the says when KEF were 'propa'. Maidstones were another such design. In any case, I doubt you'll have any problem selling yours, but it would be nice to try and address why you appear to have lost your passion for audio:)
Marco.
I’ve become hooked on fishing once again mate tbh and I don’t have enough wealth to have £3k sitting doing nothing.
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Fair dos, mate.. Always good to get outside in the fresh air, as hi-fi can be both a solitary, and to an extent, unhealthy hobby (due to it forcing you indoors), although you may feel rather different about things in the winter, when the weather's shit and you want to hear some choons..
What will you replace the KEFs with if they go? I'd suggest chunky floorstanders, so you don't miss the bass. Hey,. maybe Macca would sell you a pair? He's certainly got enough!:D
Those white ones (Audiovectors?) may be suitable candidates, as he seems to prefer his JM Labs.
Marco.
Actually I'm running a bit low on speakers I've only got 6 pairs left. :D
I think Andy is talking about selling up and walking away.
if it were me I'd change the amplifiers, QUAD is too safe sounding for those KEFs IMO. Get the amps right you'd probably forget about fishing.
Which Quad amps is he using? Maybe a cheap-as-chips 306 would work? That's defo not safe sounding, although perhaps the KEFs need more power..
Marco.
I’m using them with a Quad vena II and 909 .
I’ve just had Howard ( Neil McCauley ) collect the xtz from me and he said of the quads and kefs ......“ that’s the best system I’ve heard in many years “ DON’T SELL IT “
And yes Marco you are correct it’s the winter time when I’ll miss Hifi the most so perhaps I should think again or up the medication.
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Which Quad amps is he using? Maybe a cheap-as-chips 306 would work? That's defo not safe sounding, although perhaps the KEFs need more power..
Marco.
306 won't manage those KEFs properly I don't think. In fact I'd bet on it.
306 won't manage those KEFs properly I don't think. In fact I'd bet on it.
I agree , not hope in hell . The 909 is feeding them 300w and they sound huge
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I’m using them with a Quad vena II and 909 .
I’ve just had Howard ( Neil McCauley ) collect the xtz from me and he said of the quads and kefs ......“ that’s the best system I’ve heard in many years “ DON’T SELL IT “
And yes Marco you are correct it’s the winter time when I’ll miss Hifi the most so perhaps I should think again or up the medication.
Sensible advice! Whatever you do I'd keep those speakers, you won't easily replace them if you let them go. I was after some for years but the ones on offer always had problems, were too far away, or cost too much. And they don't come up often.
90 watts into 8 ohms, for the Quad 909, ought to be sufficient to drive the KEFs. Failing that, 135 watts from a pair of Quad 510s is your next best option if you want to stick with Quad.
90 watts into 8 ohms, for the Quad 909, ought to be sufficient to drive the KEFs. Failing that, 135 watts from a pair of Quad 510s is your next best option if you want to stick with Quad.
250w into the kefs 4 ohm [emoji1303]
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far as i know the 909 is 90w into 8 ohm and 120w into 4 ohm
far as i know the 909 is 90w into 8 ohm and 120w into 4 ohm
Not according to the owners manual
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walpurgis
05-06-2021, 14:21
140w into 8 ohms.
140w into 8 ohms.
Correct young man [emoji6]
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Filterlab
05-06-2021, 15:01
I'm not familiar with the 107/2's and the Kubes. Explain a bit about them please, they look darned interesting!
Don't sell. I did some years back due to absolute necessity. When I got back into Hi-Fi (via the Edifier S3000 Pros that I still have in my office system) I suddenly realised just how much I love quality sound. Then came the wallet hammering to get the system I have - which I love and it ticks all the boxes for me.
I'm not familiar with the 107/2's and the Kubes. Explain a bit about them please, they look darned interesting!
Don't sell. I did some years back due to absolute necessity. When I got back into Hi-Fi (via the Edifier S3000 Pros that I still have in my office system) I suddenly realised just how much I love quality sound. Then came the wallet hammering to get the system I have - which I love and it ticks all the boxes for me.
The quality of the sound does put a smile on my face and raise the hair on the back of my neck at times which really is priceless I guess and not being one for buying new but rather old that’s better than the new makes replacement that much more difficult.
The Kube is described as an equaliser ( by Kef ) according to them it’s for compensating room acoustics , for me it gives a flat response OR treble and bass on steroids ( Bass down to and beyond 20hz ) . Some owners say ditch the Kube whereas others say it’s an absolute must have , I’ve never tried my speakers without it as who am I to disagree with their original designer(s) .
Last of the proper Kefs too.
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Filterlab
05-06-2021, 15:15
They sound rather good indeed. When I saw the picture (before I read the text) I thought they were Wilsons. There's obviously something to the separate enclosure set up that works very well.
Keep 'em! You'll end up spending a mint to get back to where you were if you sell mate.
Pigmy Pony
05-06-2021, 17:43
By all means sell the Quad stuff if you need a bit of finances Andy, but keep the KEFs. If you got rid of everything, the shit weather will return and your indoor entertainment will be limited to telly and copies of "Angling Times". Then to get replacements for your KEFs of the same condition will cost an arm and a leg. And alternatives may end up a big disappointment.
But that's just my advice, and I'm usually wrong...
I agree - keep the KEFs and sell the Quad gear. Quad gear is always available to buy, but those KEFs look to be irreplaceable.
Of course you are ALL correct and I’m a ploncker. I’ll keep em and appreciate what I have , thanks guys .
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Filterlab
05-06-2021, 19:21
Good move. I can't see those Kefs being easy to get hold of again.
I've been wondering about my position in a similar way, having three years ago bought a pair of expensive speakers, and now asking myself exactly what I'm doing.
Well they are the best I have had, and they are forensic to the point of exposing recording failings, this perhaps sabotaging the art on occasions. Then there was the realisation a while ago that most of our enjoyment comes from what we attribute, ascribe, assign, and associate, with the sound we hear, this making me think it is all a big con.
But no, the better the equipment the more able we are to hear subtleties on the better art, and this makes it more distinguished than with lesser equipment, as well as enabling dismissal of lesser art, so it can improve our overall appreciation of finer art by enabling us to be more discriminating.
I am also very interested in sound itself, and broadcasting, and have just bought a high quality FM tuner which came from a German man who sold everything, leaving Hi-Fi.
I heard those KEFs many years ago and thought they were very good, and the 909 is highly regarded, much more so than the 99. Perhaps Krell may be an improvement over the 909.
I would not sell for the reasons given, and also in a few years time your finances will probably be improved, and you will have a known reference system for all that time, hard and expensive to replace. If you really have found that you continue to be disinterested in music for a couple of years, then maybe reconsider, but I go through phases of relative interest and disinterest.
Wakefield Turntables
06-06-2021, 08:22
I've made the same mistake myself with respects to selling classic British speakers only to end up buying several pairs to replace the originals. :doh:
Filterlab
06-06-2021, 09:38
I think what we can take from this thread is that we should never sell anything, ever.
:lol:
i try to avoid it but then it really starts piling up.
Filterlab
06-06-2021, 11:57
Spoken like a true audiophile. :D
walpurgis
06-06-2021, 12:12
i try to avoid it but then it really starts piling up.
I know the feeling.
when I first join this forum in 2009 I had three sets of speakers, two amplifiers, one pre-amp, one turntable and one subwoofer. And they were all in use.
Now I could easily stock a decent sized shop. And that's after selling a fair amount of kit in the last two years.
Filterlab
06-06-2021, 12:39
:lol:
hornucopia
06-06-2021, 18:23
I'm currently using Zigmahornets in lounge; 3 inch speakers in a 'pipe' http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zigmahornet/zigmahornet.html
my wife said 'I don't know why you need new speakers (I've just traded), David Lindley sounded GREAT on those'.
Make one think....and playing Stanley Clarke on my trusty old Leak sandwiches -LOUD!! - reinforces that feeling.
My Lecontoure Stabile 210s had better be good!
At least the review says one could 'be happy to the end', with them!
I've been wondering about my position in a similar way, having three years ago bought a pair of expensive speakers, and now asking myself exactly what I'm doing.
Well they are the best I have had, and they are forensic to the point of exposing recording failings, this perhaps sabotaging the art on occasions. Then there was the realisation a while ago that most of our enjoyment comes from what we attribute, ascribe, assign, and associate, with the sound we hear, this making me think it is all a big con.
But no, the better the equipment the more able we are to hear subtleties on the better art, and this makes it more distinguished than with lesser equipment, as well as enabling dismissal of lesser art, so it can improve our overall appreciation of finer art by enabling us to be more discriminating.
Interesting approach, but one that I do not follow. For me the whole point of using high quality equipment is to better facilitate the illusion of a performance happening in front of me, and to achieve greater enjoyment of the recorded sound. Having a forensic system which reveals every flaw and recording fault would be purgatory for me. Recording faults are there in the recording medium, and no amount of 'improved discrimination' is going to alter that.
StanleyB
06-06-2021, 21:18
Interesting approach, but one that I do not follow. For me the whole point of using high quality equipment is to better facilitate the illusion of a performance happening in front of me, and to achieve greater enjoyment of the recorded sound. Having a forensic system which reveals every flaw and recording fault would be purgatory for me. Recording faults are there in the recording medium, and no amount of 'improved discrimination' is going to alter that.
100% agree with you there Barry. Since I started to tamper with a professional piece of software that can analyze an audio signal for various errors, I realized that finding the best possible recorded version of that track is far more important than buying speakers/amps/etc that can do some of the same analysis, except that they don't necessarily mean a more pleasant listening experience.
Interesting approach, but one that I do not follow. For me the whole point of using high quality equipment is to better facilitate the illusion of a performance happening in front of me, and to achieve greater enjoyment of the recorded sound. Having a forensic system which reveals every flaw and recording fault would be purgatory for me. Recording faults are there in the recording medium, and no amount of 'improved discrimination' is going to alter that.
Firstly no-one really believes that a Hi-Fi system can deceive us into believing we are hearing a live performance surely; we suspend disbelief, and most recordings are artefacts.
I understand your position, but the 'forensic reality' only serves to reveal the actual performance objectively, in greater detail, and if that is offensive then it is the performance itself which is offensive.
The delivery of art is very much a part of its essence and hence its quality. My cousin recently said that she did not like Dire Straits because "It was too perfect". Thinking of "News" from Communique, the guitar solo is IMO so exquisitely performed that it coveys extremely well the emotion felt by Knopfler about the predicaments described in the song.
On Desert Island Discs a week or so ago was a Professor Richard Green, and he stated that; words convey meaning, music conveys emotion, but in songs the feelings of the singer about the meaning are conveyed. I think this is spot on.
This principle also applies IMO to conversation; when someone bothers to express themselves clearly and with appropriate inflexion/intonation, it is a pleasure to hear and understand, but a mumbled muttered, (R4 presenters) babbling is frustrating to hear, and annoying to listen to.
StanleyB
06-06-2021, 23:00
Firstly no-one really believes that a Hi-Fi system can deceive us into believing we are hearing a live performance surely; we suspend disbelief, and most recordings are artefacts.
No disrespect meant mate, but you are firing blanks on this one. The whole idea of hifi is to recreate the atmosphere of the recording. The end result is down to how good the sound engineers and final mixing person did their job. Microphone placement is the biggest headache when it comes to "live" performances.
Choosing the hifi equipment is just part of the process at the listening stage. Setting it up and placing the speakers in the right position is the hardest part for the end-user.
With those above two issues properly sorted, the listening experience is based on what you hear, not on what you want to hear.
If my system sounded like some of the Live events I have attended then I defo would sell the lot!
If my system sounded like some of the Live events I have attended then I defo would sell the lot!
That’s a good point
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Lawrence001
07-06-2021, 08:12
My view is if you build your system to recreate as closely as possible a classical, chamber or jazz concert then it will probably sound crap with rock and pop, and vice versa.
Most of us find a middle ground somewhere along the line that sounds pretty good on both.
No disrespect meant mate, but you are firing blanks on this one. The whole idea of hifi is to recreate the atmosphere of the recording. The end result is down to how good the sound engineers and final mixing person did their job. Microphone placement is the biggest headache when it comes to "live" performances.
Choosing the hifi equipment is just part of the process at the listening stage. Setting it up and placing the speakers in the right position is the hardest part for the end-user.
With those above two issues properly sorted, the listening experience is based on what you hear, not on what you want to hear.
I don't really get your point, all I am saying is that a system should be transparent to the source recording.
It never does, though... At least, once the signal passes through the speakers (and imbued with their many inherent distortions), any notions of 'transparency' are rendered as obsolete;)
Marco.
ive always went for a sound that is great to me. bollocks to anything else; im doing it to enjoy it
ive always went for a sound that is great to me. bollocks to anything else; im doing it to enjoy it
Me too Grant
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100% agree with you there Barry. Since I started to tamper with a professional piece of software that can analyze an audio signal for various errors, I realized that finding the best possible recorded version of that track is far more important than buying speakers/amps/etc that can do some of the same analysis, except that they don't necessarily mean a more pleasant listening experience.
Good point, Stan. As ever though, in terms of chosen equipment and systems, it's about striking the right balance between analysis and musicality. My system is very, very revealing of the source recording, but not in any way fatiguing to listen to, *providing* that the intrinsic quality of said recording doesn't provoke that reaction!;)
It also plays classical music as well as rock, pop, jazz, blues, dance or anything else, which I find is generally the case with any systems I've heard that feature the use of very large (high-efficiency) speakers, driven with powerful, high-quality amplification [or otherwise where the amp/speaker relationship is truly synergistic], and which simply combine to reproduce all kinds of music, cleanly and effortlessly.
Essentially, *you have to create some headroom*, whilst also using equipment and speakers that successfully work together, both electrically and sonically. That's why 'powderpuff' amps, driving diddy-sized, inefficient squawk-boxes [or other similar mismatches], simply doesn't work!
Let's remember too, that the *biggest* drawback (and degrading factor) for the sound of ANY system, is THE ROOM, and specifically how well or otherwise the chosen speakers interact with it. If you don't get that right, then you can forget about any notions of transparency, or even anything approaching a sound that could be called 'real'.
Marco.
StanleyB
07-06-2021, 09:33
Essentially, *you have to create headroom*, whilst also using equipment and speakers that successfully work together, both electrically and sonically. That's why 'powderpuff' amps, driving diddy-sized, inefficient squawk-boxes [or other similar mismatches], simply doesn't work!
No matter how much headroom you create at the amp/speaker stage, if the dynamic range of the audio is clipped so that it doesn't go above the maximum input voltage of 2Vrms of the Analogue to Digital converter at the recording studio, you are going to get clipping distortions embedded in the audio signal. Remastered tracks are often the ones that have been tampered with and in order to sound louder the loud dynamic peaks have been clipped. Only where the audio remastering engineer has access to the actual original multi track recording do you find that the loud passages have been reduced in volume instead of hard clipped.
In order to minimize the clipping distortion some DAC chips have an inbuilt headroom to oversample the clipped bits to some extent. So instead of a maximum 2Vrms analogue output they might give an output of 2.3Vrms from the oversampled clipped bits/bytes.
I'll try to do some screen grabs from my audio laptop to show an example of what I mean about the clipping.
Yup, I completely agree, when dealing simply with the recording (quality is ALL, in that respect).
My point was more in relation to building sufficient headroom into the relationship between amps and speakers (how well they work together, electrically), and that means having [not just enough, but MORE than enough] power on tap, in order to drive the partnering speakers efficiently, whilst *most importantly' leaving sufficient headroom to handle the demands (peaks/transients) in the music, in order for it to be reproduced cleanly and *effortlessly*.
The best analogy here is with cars, and why I like driving ones with big engines. It's not about the top speed, but having sufficient reserves of horse power 'on tap' when needed (say when overtaking), whilst also making the overall driving experience much more controlled and EFFORTLESS at lower speeds, so that nothing ever feels 'strained' - and it's exactly the same with audio, and building in that type of 'headroom', so that neither the amplifier or speakers are ever unduly 'taxed' by the music signal.
In that respect, with my system (and room), my ears would give in long before the speakers 'blew up' or the amp got anywhere near to clipping!:D
It also helps when the drive units on the speakers and their enclosures are large [efficient enough] and appropriately well-designed to create convincing scale, thus allow music to 'breathe', so that all the dynamics in the recording are present and correct, without having to listen loudly. That last bit is also crucial, in terms of how likely the speakers are to 'excite' the room, thus potentially create problems.
When you've put all that successfully into place, not only is your system able to play ANY kind of music extremely well (a system should never dictate your music tastes, but rather vice versa), but nothing ever sounds 'pinched', out of control or liable to fall apart at any minute, just simply effortless and convincingly real; much like driving a quality big car with a 3-litre engine, or more, (on a suitable straight road) at 100mph!;)
Inside, lesser, smaller cars at that speed, you *know* you're going that fast, because it FEELS like it (in the wrong way), whereas in the likes of my car, others like it or better, you wouldn't even realise it until you looked at the speedo... And the very same principles apply to audio, by building in that effortlessness/HEADROOM, thus reproducing (all forms) of music cleanly, believably, and with minimal drama!
Marco.
It never does, though... At least, once the signal passes through the speakers (and imbued with their inherent distortions), any notions of 'transparency' are rendered as obsolete;)
Marco.
whilst it's true that the totally transparent speaker has yet to be invented that does not mean you have to walk away from any notions of transparency to the recording. It is still possible to get very close providing the speaker is good enough.
It's not that hard to get a speaker that has no audible distortion in the mids and top, and which has bass distortion lower than 1% at reasonable volumes. Low frequency distortion has to be very high before we notice it (10% plus).
With regards to those saying that they simply want a system that sounds great to them, that goal is more likely to be achieved by pursuing transparency to the recording. If the recording should happen to be terrible, which is rare, a low transparency playback system is not going to salvage it in any case. Either accept it for what it is or don't listen to it at all.
walpurgis
07-06-2021, 11:20
I agree - keep the KEFs and sell the Quad gear. Quad gear is always available to buy, but those KEFs look to be irreplaceable.
I agree with this!
whilst it's true that the totally transparent speaker has yet to be invented that does not mean you have to walk away from any notions of transparency to the recording. It is still possible to get very close providing the speaker is good enough.
Of course I agree. What I meant was *true* transparency, which simply is never going to happen, so best forgetting all about that, and as you say, striving for as close to such as possible.
With regards to those saying that they simply want a system that sounds great to them, that goal is more likely to be achieved by pursuing transparency to the recording. If the recording should happen to be terrible, which is rare, a low transparency playback system is not going to salvage it in any case. Either accept it for what it is or don't listen to it at all.
I completely agree in all respects, but especially the highlighted part, otherwise all you've created is a 'sound effect' [via a glorified sound-effects generator, posing as an audio system, and aided by the use of aberrations such as tone controls or graphic EQs], and with it something that may be pleasing to your ears, but not in any way accurate or transparent to the sound of the source recording.
That's fine of course, as it's your ears and money, but it's not hi-FIDELITY, and so in such situations one should not purport to be a hi-fi enthusiast, as you've failed in achieving the core goal;)
Marco.
Since we're on the subject of allowing systems to reproduce recorded music as faithfully as possible (although apologies for somewhat drifting from the original topic), I'd say it's also no coincidence that the best systems I've heard, in that respect, have been those where the ROOM has lent itself to the system, and suitable concessions have been made to facilitate that, not the other way round;)
However, I realise that family life and other issues often precludes such, but there's no doubt that, apart from anything else, hi-fi systems sound best when speakers are optimally positioned, and which often means on stands out in the middle of the room. well away from walls and corners, which may not be aesthetically pleasing for some, but ultimately allow them to perform as intended by the manufacturer.
Therefore, if in your home WAF prevents such 'luxuries', then to be brutally honest, you've got no chance of achieving what others and I have been discussing, as no matter what else you do, results will always be limited by the weakest link in the chain, in this case suboptimal speaker positioning. Sad but true..
Marco.
ive always went for a sound that is great to me. bollocks to anything else; im doing it to enjoy it
Absolutely true, but probably equally true is the fact that in doing so, those such as yourself (with experience and good ears) are often inadvertently creating a sound that is as transparent as possible/faithful to that of the source recording - and THAT is why you're enjoying it. Arriving at that happy situation is just a by-product of good decision-making, and which I'd say applies to most here:)
True, you may not set out to strive for 'transparency', but as I've said, your level of sonic discernment is such that it can simply occur naturally as a 'happy accident'..;)
That's certainly how I believe that I've achieved it, as choices are simply made via listening and other forms of subjective analysis; fuck all is ever measured!
Marco.
hornucopia
07-06-2021, 12:36
Which brings us to the conclusion....why don't manufacturers make speakers that DO sound good close to a wall?
From memory, I think Von schweikert does. Maybe others.
UK rooms especially are on the small size, or have awkward angles/corners.
I had to sell my Klipschorns when moving here because of doors, windows etc., in the 'wrong' place.
Mind you, some speakers rely on a proximate surface to enhance the bass frequencies.
Get a pair of Akoyas and sit back. All this angst; it's just a way to hear music!
walpurgis
07-06-2021, 12:42
I had to sell my Klipschorns when moving here because of doors, windows etc., in the 'wrong' place.
That's unfortunate and actually unusual, as large horn speakers tend to be pretty room friendly.
Quote Originally Posted by StanleyB View Post
"No disrespect meant mate, but you are firing blanks on this one."
I don't see how what I have said is in any way indicative of lack of content or of impotence on my part, and I stand by what I said.
Of course no system is completely transparent, but we get as close as is possible, and if a more transparent system causes the art to be less likable, it is not the fault of the system.
I also agree with much from both Geoff and Marco above, and I find that with a truly dynamic speaker/amplifier setup, I do not go up much from about 75dB, whereas with a lesser dynamic system I tended to turn it up more.
BTW I’m not selling the lot off now [emoji2]
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BTW I’m not selling the lot off now [emoji2]
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a wise move.. beats fishing on a cold wet day:eyebrows:
BTW I’m not selling the lot off now [emoji2]
Lol yes, and happy days!:)
You don't mind if we park that now and just talk about a load of unrelated pish instead?:D
Marco.
Lol yes, and happy days!:)
You don't mind if we park that now and just talk about a load of unrelated pish?:D
Marco.
How about we let everyone disagree about fishing methods ( mine works best [emoji6])
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How about we let everyone disagree about fishing methods ( mine works best [emoji6])
Dynamite or hand-grenades? The debate is on!
this is a good method..
https://media1.tenor.com/images/af1a01919822c0474c5f3809b9da48be/tenor.gif?itemid=14500215
this is a good method..
https://media1.tenor.com/images/af1a01919822c0474c5f3809b9da48be/tenor.gif?itemid=14500215
Mate the fish have more rights than children these days ! There would be uproar, you must even have a padded unhooking mat down here .
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Might have known you'd go for dynamite. Old school.
I also agree with much from both Geoff and Marco above, and I find that with a truly dynamic speaker/amplifier setup, I do not go up much from about 75dB, whereas with a lesser dynamic system I tended to turn it up more.
Indeed, Dennis, and for me is key.
One of the tests of a genuinely good system is how satisfying (musically rewarding) it is to listen to at low playback levels... Even though the volume is low, does the music still sound 'fleshed out', detailed and clear, and able to fill the room, or restrained/rather muted and/or lacking in 'excitement', until the wick is turned up?
IME, the very best systems get it right at BOTH ends of the scale, sounding detailed, dynamic and also 'intimate' at low levels, and powerful/big, controlled and effortless at high levels, presuming the room can take such and there are no neighbours who'll complain!;)
However, if you always have to listen loudly, or louder than you'd like, before the sound or music 'comes alive', or 'snaps into focus', then there's still some work to be done with your system.
Marco.
I agree and that’s exactly what my system is able to achieve.
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a wise move.. beats fishing on a cold wet day:eyebrows:
...but not dogging on a dry, sunny day:D
Marco.
I agree and that’s exactly what my system is able to achieve.
Great, so no more talking like a silly-billy!:D;)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
07-06-2021, 19:32
Mate the fish have more rights than children these days ! There would be uproar, you must even have a padded unhooking mat down here .
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You must be catching the wrong fish, mine used to end up in the freezer :)
Filterlab
08-06-2021, 10:53
It never does, though... At least, once the signal passes through the speakers (and imbued with their many inherent distortions), any notions of 'transparency' are rendered as obsolete;)
Marco.
Quite right. It's a case of getting as close to as possible, within one's budget of course. It's as much about good system matching as anything else, but equally about having a system one 'enjoys' the sound of.
I'm at a bit of an end point unless I invest some serious dough (the next purchase will be speakers), but moving up to the next echelon will be fun - and expensive too, and hopefully reveal even more of the source material.
hornucopia
08-06-2021, 11:17
'There is a nearly scientific branch that teaches how the role of translator requires familiarity with creative writing as much or more so than fluency in languages. That essentially creates a co-author. The ghost writer's input is almost as important as the original author. It's the interpreter’s sensitivity, education, beliefs and even sex that matter and influence the final shape of the translated book. It’s really a new work and no longer identical to the original.
I believe that an audio system works along the same principles. No matter how great a system, it will never deliver exactly what happened during the studio recording session, not even what’s on the final pressing. What we get instead is some version or interpretation of what happened in front of the microphones and mixing console. What exact version we end up with depends on how good a translator our audio system is. That's why each audio designer plays a key role in what comes out of our speakers. It’s their interpretations we listen to. In my opinion it becomes very important then to carefully absorb what manufacturers share in manuals, on their websites and what additional information can be gleaned from other reviews. The perfect thing would be to visit a factory, talk to the designers and listen to a complete system built by them placed in their room to hear their idea of sound fully manifest. Unfortunately most of us can’t do that. What we can do is at least listen to a complete system.'
A quote from Wojciech Pacula, which has relevance here?
walpurgis
08-06-2021, 11:18
I spent a lot of disposable income on gear while I worked, but having been retired for a fair while, I'm moving the other way and aiming for great sound at minimum outlay and having fun. I simply don't need to surround myself with loads of costly equipment now.
Years ago I started the 'Hi-Fi Shoestring Project' as a discussion group (forum) for ebay members, I had a fair bit of interest. Maybe something like it would work here?
I spent a lot of disposable income on gear while I worked, but having been retired for a fair while, I'm moving the other way and aiming for great sound at minimum outlay and having fun. I simply don't need to surround myself with loads of costly equipment now.
Years ago I started the 'Hi-Fi Shoestring Project' as a discussion group (forum) for ebay members, I had a fair bit of interest. Maybe something like it would work here?
might well be an idea geoff:)
Ive lots of stuff to get rid of. as im not really able to move it around now its just stuck in spare room now tho.
Quite right. It's a case of getting as close to as possible, within one's budget of course. It's as much about good system matching as anything else, but equally about having a system one 'enjoys' the sound of.
I'm at a bit of an end point unless I invest some serious dough (the next purchase will be speakers), but moving up to the next echelon will be fun - and expensive too, and hopefully reveal even more of the source material.
I tend to be of the 'objectivist' school, and so do not think matching has a great importance, provided that a power amp is capable enough in both wattage and current supply terms. To me speakers are the weak point, even at the very high end.
I do not get with my system what Marco referred to earlier, that is, a consistently good sound independent of level. At 60dB there is an apparent lack of life, but at 72dB it comes alive. I have presbycusis, and also the Fletcher-Munson curves probably account for this. Sometimes a coloured speaker can provide auditory clues to what is happening even when the actual signal content is not loud enough for something to be heard.
I disagree with Chris's point below because a system is not actively intelligent, but his co-author is.
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