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colinB
08-08-2010, 14:30
The last few days ive had a problem with Jelco arm on my Techy.
The grub screw on the central stub had worked its way loose from the torque applied everytime i pushed/pulled the arm into its rest clip.
The stub had obviously dropped down so the arm was in a tail down position so when i tightened the grub screw i checked for VTA using a tiny bubble level placed on the cartridge housing, a finicky job but i was lucky enough to get it spot on in no time.
I was shocked to find the sound change dramatically much more toppy and less of the seismic bass sound i hear in the technics.
You have to bear in mind this is the first deck i have used for HI Fi duties, before that i used decks for DJ work and could never see the point in playing with VTA,
it never seemed to make a difference. I have a badly warped Art Blakey LP that i never exchanged because it sounds fine. So this is all a revelation to me.
The difficulty im having is so far it actually sounds fine but i have lost Bass,significantly. Im listening to Massive Attack right now and the highs are clear as a bell, well extended and dont sound harsh but the deep bass notes have thinned out almost as if someone has switched of the subwoofer.
Now i dont know wether to get the protractor out or play about with the VTA, neither jobs i particularly like doing.

Is this all part of the learning curve of owning a HI FI table? Have you all been here before and learned through trial and error to a point you could fix your settings blind fold?
Should i be using a test record for adjustments by ear? Do i have to take a week of work?
At the moment id rather chill out with the sunday papers an listen to a cd to be honest. Any support from AOS members will be gratefully recieved.

YNWaN
08-08-2010, 19:14
In my experience the sensitivity to VTA adjustment varies significantly between cartridges (not that this helps you much). Having said that, I'm surprised that you are experiencing such a profound difference. If you have cartridge scales check the tracking weight. You should probably check the alignment too - but presuming it is OK this is not a tedious job surely (adjusting it is, but hopefully it won't need adjusting - VTA doesn't impact on essential alignment).

If you start with a datum of the arm parallel to the surface of a record when the stylus rests on the surface of said record, then you shouldn't need to move the arm pillar more than a few (1 to 3) millimetres (up or down) from this position.

DSJR
08-08-2010, 19:29
As Mark says :)

Check and confirm tracking weight too.

Mark, I once fitted a new cartridge (a Lyra I think) to an Aro and thought I'd got it right. The client, an SBL owner wondered where the bass went, so I visited him and lowered the arm a tad (my eyes are useless for parallax errors). Result, bass came back and a very happy client - the room was well damped too so the SBL's didn't "splatter" as the passive versions so often can.

colinB
08-08-2010, 19:32
Thanks for the useful advice. Another reason i might be experiencing profound changes is the fact i didnt use the shure gauge the correct way.
The tedious aspect of changing the VTA is getting the my small allen screw into the base of the arm.
Now i have lost day light im leaving it until next weekend. Is it worth using a test record for final set up?

colinB
08-08-2010, 19:37
The other reason i find it tedious is the cart backs right up onto the cartridge tags so just when i think i have it spot on the pressure of the wires puts it out.

DSJR
08-08-2010, 19:41
That's adjusting the overhang, not VTA as I understand the word..

Don't get anal over it all. Just make sure the 65-66mm (from spindle) null point is correct as it's side end that's the most critical IMO.

colinB
08-08-2010, 19:52
I understood if you change one thing you should change every setting no?
Any way ive started now and im using one of those Mint protractors with paralllex mirror markings and various magnifiers. Takes hours.

YNWaN
08-08-2010, 22:17
I once fitted a new cartridge (a Lyra I think) to an Aro and thought I'd got it right. The client, an SBL owner wondered where the bass went, so I visited him and lowered the arm a tad (my eyes are useless for parallax errors). Result, bass came back and a very happy client - the room was well damped too so the SBL's didn't "splatter" as the passive versions so often can.

Yeah, that doesn't really surprise me to be honest Dave. Lyra's seem to have a reputation for being VTA sensitive. Surely you didn't need to lower the arm by very much though?
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I understood if you change one thing you should change every setting no?
Any way ive started now and im using one of those Mint protractors with paralllex mirror markings and various magnifiers. Takes hours.

Well yes to a point, but not with regard to use of the alignment protractor - the headshell alignment of the cartridge is independent of VTA, VTF, SRA and bias (although all these last four do interact together); even azimuth could potentially be affected (but only with a unipivot).

I can't think how you could use a test record to set the VTA to be honest - you need some nice cleanly recorded music with good natural bass and treble - and patience :).

(as Dave writes above, adjusting the cartridge in the headshell has nothing to do with adjusting the VTA - however, it is essential you get the cartridge alignment correct first before you start on any of the other adjustments)

colinB
08-08-2010, 23:31
I didnt realize you do the null points first. Ive just finished and im pretty tired.
Ill live with the sound for a week and see how i like it. Thanks for yor help.

colinB
09-08-2010, 07:20
Eureka! Ive got it back. Stayed up till 2 last night but it was worth it.
Everything snapped into focus. Not going to touch anything now until i need to change a cartridge!

DSJR
09-08-2010, 09:51
Yeah, that doesn't really surprise me to be honest Dave. Lyra's seem to have a reputation for being VTA sensitive. Surely you didn't need to lower the arm by very much though?
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No, just a "smidge" was enough ;)

When the ARO first appeared, I didn't like it at all, but once the fruitbox lost most of its fruit, this arm came into its own (I've never heard one on anything else apart from your needle-drops) I thought.