Computer Based Audio

[Welder]

I’m computer based for audio (dodges the bricks)
I used to have a pretty decent Vinyl system.
Real life intruded on my luddite audiophile time capsule; moved home, grandchildren, friends children etc.
If I include all the self built bits and pieces, spare components, wires, tools, two pairs of speakers and the eye candy hanging off the walls, I estimate I had 4 ½ cubic metres of kit worth a few grand just to play music.

Shortly after I moved I visited a friend who I used to “audiophile” with many years ago. I’m talking serious converted garage into listening room, Naim and enough valves to heat a swimming pool type.
He had transferred to computer based audio some years ago, albeit somewhat more up market than my current setup.
He got me started with computer based audio and I wouldn’t go back to Vinyl or CD player if you bought and installed the system for me.
I tried a number of Dacs (Beresford, V-Dac, Vintage Audio NOS, even built a couple). Eventually I bought the basic HRT Music Streamer for £130 to try the whole concept out. I believe some people spend that much on a set of interconnects.
I have to say the learning curve was quite steep despite being reasonably computer literate due to my interest in video games. I already had a PC and a laptop so the cost involved in the initial trial and learning curve was minimal.
Much as I appreciate many here won’t want to hear this, the simple fact is computer based audio is here to stay and the sound quality I have now tore my CD based system to shreds and from what I can remember about how my Vinyl system sounded, comes close enough for me not to miss it.
I have less than a cubic metre of “stuff” now. I don’t have heart attacks when the kids show up. I have a whole new world of music to listen to via internet radio, I can organize play lists for different moods, record my attempts at playing music, transfer music files to friends via FTP; the list of conveniences just goes on.
Is any of this going to make me Mr Popular here? I very much doubt it.
Would I recommend it to anyone else? Absolutely.

Horrifying isn’t it.

[DSJR]

Eventually, I suspect most of us posters here will be doing this and there's no reason why a carefully applied computer-streamer shouldn't be another good source to use.

I'm from the generation who appreciates the tactile pleasure of handling the medium and my former career revolved (apologies) around turntable setup. As I can't afford to replace or junk my LP collection I feel no need to change right now and have refreshed my turntable setup skills with the TD125 suspension tuning..

[Ali Tait]

Agreed,my Squeezebox Touch through my Audio Note dac playing hi rez files sounds very good.The best vinyl I've heard still betters it though,bit given the cost of the Touch,I've no complaints.

[Macca]

Hi John

There are lots of members on AOS with computer audio/internet based systems - you won't get abused for it here:) although I'm not one of them - like Dave DSJR I prefer to have the CD or Vinyl hard copy and quite like the idea that it will soon be considered old-fashioned and eccentric to listen to music in this manner.;)

Regards

[StanleyB]

it will soon be considered old-fashioned and eccentric to listen to music in this manner.
There is nothing old fashioned about getting the best out of those mediums. I have yet to hear any alternative method of audio reproduction that is a sonic improvement over those rotating discs.

[Macca]

There is nothing old fashioned about getting the best out of those mediums. I have yet to hear any alternative method of audio reproduction that is a sonic improvement over those rotating discs.

I buy my CDs off Amazon and get them delivered to work. A few people have noticed and said 'CD?? you're living in the past - why not just get an iPod?':doh:

[Techno Commander]

I agree and listen to a lot of music from a PC based sourse. Sure a good turntable of CD player will better it. But at a much greater financial cost.

[Clive]

I use both PC audio source and vinyl. I play much more vinyl, not only for the greater musical enjoyment it brings but also the involvement (and sometimes hassle) it brings. Vinyl is more expensive but how do you price pleasure? I drink malt not blended whisky.....

[Spur07]

i'm PC only now, got rid of all my old vinyl, more due to practicalities and circumstances than anything else. it had been played to death in my teens anyway.

and i still think to do vinyl/hi-fi properly is something of a rich man's game - disposable income, detached house, exclusive listening room, decent TT, maintenance, mint vinyl, expensive record cleaner, etc. (although i understand for those in the know there are ways of getting a decent TT on a budget)

[John]

I like computer audio and whilst at the moment I do not have a TT I still desire what vinyl can bring
I do not think good vinyl need cost silly money; its not just for the rich. A lenco GL75 goes for very little money and with a bit of DIY is a very capable player
Others include the 401, 124 (not heard this model but enough evidence to suggest its performs at a high level) and 1210 all very capable players
As for new models the Salvation offers crazy performance
Lots of info out there about how to modify any of the above

[Rare Bird]

I've been done with old mans hifi (as i call it) for quite some time now...

[swampy]

Sold all my vinyl off years ago. Just sold my MF A308 CDP so now looking for a nice non upsampling 16 - 18 bit dac to go with my WDTV box... I'm making the switch over....

[sastusbulbas]

I have also went down that road, though I do think my Theta kit sounds better I just had to do a lot of re-arranging and such (three kids).

My main system ended up in storage after much toing and froing around PC/Mac based Audio and plenty of internet hype, tried numerous rip settings software etc, and due to home circumstances convenience seemed to get the better of my set up. I kept ripping CD's eventually gave up comparisons and only ripped as WAV, I-Tunes was a headache with updates and such and a lot of unrecognised albums tracks and info and art going missing, Media Monkey just as glitchy, so the more I played the more convenient WMP became. I liked some software but could not justify paying for it. (I think J River Media Center I thought the one I liked)

Whenever I ripped an album I put it away, recently I set up my better system in the bedroom and found it inconvenient digging out the CD's from storage, but I also find it inconvenient booting up the computer and needing a monitor for music, can't win :scratch:

On the plus side it pleased the wife that we have a PC the size of a DVD player under our TV, using the TV as a monitor means less internet and such as it's not quite that great to look at (1920+1080 50" is too much) but my movies are slowly eing stored on HDD and it is more convenient to change the channel when the PC is on and browse the movie cover art.

Sadly though another PC (my main large one full of fans and HDD's) has to be on for the wee PC to stream from, unless I am playing a disc direct.

Most of my PC's are still work in progress (ain't they always).

Now that I have a third child (baby daughter) my last spare room is going to need cleared, so will have to contemplate what why where with my vinyl collection. Though I don't seem to have any time these days.

[Ali Tait]

Agreed about the monitor thing Steve,that's why I waited for the Touch,with it's built in screen.I control it mostly with my phone though,which is very convenient.

[swampy]

Does the SB touch need to stream from a pc or does it have a facility to play flac locally say from a usb port and drive ? That's the killer for me... I don't want the pc being on as a requirement.

[aBe]

Me being in a perennial languid mode, of late spent more and more time listening to stored files (FLAC, WAV etc).

Trust me, I don't feel like I'm missing my CD player. Couldn't wait to know how my 'computer audio' would sound with a better USB cable (Wireworld?) and Mark Grant's interconnects.





Whenever I ripped an album I put it away, recently I set up my better system in the bedroom and found it inconvenient digging out the CD's from storage, but I also find it inconvenient booting up the computer and needing a monitor for music, can't win :scratch:


Stevie,
You might want to get yourself the smallish netbook and set it to 'Hibernate' upon closing the lid, instant wake-up everytime. No more rebooting hassle and just tuck it under the pillow to stow :)

[Ali Tait]

Does the SB touch need to stream fr,om a pc or does it have a facility to play flac locally say from a usb port and drive ? That's the killer for me... I don't want the pc being on as a requirement.

Yes it will.I waited for the Touch for the same reason David.One caveat though-it doesn't like usb powered drives,make sure you get a mains powered one.

However,according to the Slimforum,there is a maximum size of music collection the Touch can cope with used in this manner,though it's still pretty large.If you do get problems in the future,you'd need to run squeezecenter on a pc.I believe it's due to the limited processing power of the Touch.I'm getting a Guruplug for this reason amonst others,though it's also because ripping to the Drobo over the network through the Touch is a bit slow,again due to the power of it's processor.Hopefully once I get the guruplug up and running,I can just leave it on and forget about it. Also,apparently there are mods ypu can do to the Touch when it's used in this manner that will improve SQ.

[Thermionic]

Like most of us here I suspect, I grew up with LPs and reel-to-reel tape, and I still regard the CD as something new and rather untried. I am old and I like ‘old man’s Hi-Fi, but I did have my mind expanded a few years back when I set up a modest PC based music system.

To someone used to bouncing needles on turntables, lacing tape recorders and cutting and splicing tape, using the PC not only as a recorder but also a source of a music collection was a fairly ‘road to Damascus’ experience. Couple this with the downloading aspect and the ability to have all the music available instantly seemed in one hit to trash a lifetime’s set of audio values. During that period I began to see how kids with their iPods’ must view people like me with my funny old junk.

For a while I also had ‘done with my old man’s’ audio and thought in terms of file structures and what flash cards to get for my portable DAPs as I went off on a headphone jaunt.

The 401 remained un-packed and the big Nagra skulked in a corner gathering cobwebs.

Yup it seems no doubt that ‘audio’ in the future will be just as part of various ‘home entertainment’ systems installed throughout out our houses. You just point the remote at some anonymous box, stab the dead flesh and all the music and pictures in the world are there.

But for those few of us who don’t have vast televisions (what on earth is worth watching these days?) with speakers all over the place, the ‘old man’s’ system can have a certain charm. I got the soldering iron out and got some of mine going again, joined this forum and like good old Fred Dibner started again to enjoy some nice old and obsolete machinery.

Ah nice to be home again, now where did I put that 401?:)

[StanleyB]

Ah nice to be home again, now where did I put that 401?:)
Am I the only person who thinks the 401 is highly overrated? The mat on it has given me loads of headache on deep bass as found in reggae tracks etc.

[DSJR]

Stick a Spacemat on top of the 401 mat and your troubles will be over - he knows you know..:lol:

Is it still possible to obtain very small and simple "quiet" PC units (Intel Atom?). maybe a Touch or small netbook may be better as a receiver.

[Alex_UK]

I haven't tried a Spacemat, but a really heavy rubber Lenco GL75 one is my favourite, in conjunction with 2 of the damping rings that go around the outside of the platter - no problems with bass - what sort of problems? Sorry - thread drift - maybe post a new topic Stan, or join in on my 401 thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3799

[dave2010]

i'm PC only now, got rid of all my old vinyl, more due to practicalities and circumstances than anything else. it had been played to death in my teens anyway.

and i still think to do vinyl/hi-fi properly is something of a rich man's game - disposable income, detached house, exclusive listening room, decent TT, maintenance, mint vinyl, expensive record cleaner, etc. (although i understand for those in the know there are ways of getting a decent TT on a budget)
Not only the money - but also the time! Similar considerations apply in photography - where there are still some who like to play with 35 mm or even larger format films. They're probably right that they can get better results than digital, though the marginal differences are less and less, but the time to get it all done .... !!!!

I have several turntables, but they are stored away. I've not played an LP for nearly 10 years, though I do have thousands. For a very long while I didn't even believe that vinyl could sound as good as digital sources until I did eventually hear some expensive decks, cartridges etc. They were outside my price range then, and even now they're not high on my list of priorities.

Maybe when I eventually give up work ... I could do with a turntable to play my 78s too!

[Clive]

For many still using vinyl I believe it's a mix of involvement with the process of playing music and sound quality. What has changed is not so much that digital has got better but that's it's so inexpensive now. Most chart recent CDs are a tenner, many others can be bought for more like £4. If you go to 2nd hand shops then a CD is really cheap, cheaper than downloads. For those with a computer (surely everyone here), the cost of hardware is down to a DAC and maybe a USB drive or 2. It used to be that a record deck was a cheaper way to get a good sound than a CDP, that's not so true now as digital playback can be unbelievably low cost.

[dave2010]

Am I the only person who thinks the 401 is highly overrated? The mat on it has given me loads of headache on deep bass as found in reggae tracks etc.I had a 301 - perhaps foolishly sold it for £15 years ago, and have a 401 - slightly modded unfortunately, as the previous owner for some reason cut the base to fit it into a case. Not played for years, but the rumble from these units was always a slight problem. I heard that there were kits which would reduce this, but the design wasn't quite right for stereo. I suspected that most of the unwanted vibration was in the vertical plane, so they would have performed well in mono, but the world moved on.

[Welder]

I’ve been very pleasantly surprised by the sound quality I get from my fairly modest computer based setup.
I still find the “blackness” of the background listening digital audio a bit disconcerting :eyebrows:
I used to be of the opinion like some other contributors to this thread that a top class CD or Vinyl system would usually out perform a computer based setup. Having now heard some top class computer based system I’m not so sure now.
Computer based audio has made some considerable advances; moving away from SPDIF has had great benefits imo. SPDIF wasn’t designed for consumer audio replay to the best of my knowledge.
The ability of some USB Dacs to control the PC master clock is yet another major advance in both jitter control and buffer management.
Asynchronous data transfer shows great promise being more suitable to a computer than attempts at taking analogue signals from a noisy environment. (before anyone jumps on this statement USB signal transfer can be considered as digital because USB sends discrete packets that can be buffered and stacked intermixed with protocol instructions)
Galvanic Isolation and other methods of breaking and remaking the D+ and D- rails for USB has made concerns over PC generated noise reaching the Dac a lot less relevant.
I’m not sure a top class PC system works out that much cheaper than any other looking at some of the expensive Dacs on the market and the prices of some laptops.

I think Spur07 has a valid point.
A Vinyl setup is great but it isn’t exactly family friendly imo and the more serious audiophiles seem to have a dedicated listening room which I imagine is pretty much off limits to the rest of the household.
I have always considered music to be a social pleasure; musicians tend to play in groups to audiences. An outing to a concert has for me at least been a great social occasion. I got to feel slightly concerned when it dawned on me that I spent a lot of my music listening time alone.
Now, I have music playing most of the time I’m at home. I even have a small play list of “children’s music” including a favorite from my youth, Stanly Unwin who still manages to entertain my younger guests.

For me at least, one of the biggest advantages of PC audio is the ability to listen to net radio at an acceptable quality.
I believe as one gets older for many it becomes increasingly difficult to find new music to enjoy. Many of my friends don’t listen to music much any more tending to watch TV instead, and those days of “have you heard this?” seem to have gone.
I don’t have a TV.
I have discovered a vast amount of music from these two radio stations; no advertisements, no inane dj chat, no FM hiss and a wide range of genres.
http://www.radioparadise.com/
http://www.dcsoundstream.com/playing.html
I can’t recommend them highly enough.

Okay, I’m obviously a computer audio fan, but I’m in my fifties and a relatively recent convert.
A few of my friends are reluctant to make the transition mainly because of a lack of computer knowledge and a disinclination to wade through the audiophile bullshit once again in an attempt to find out what’s good and what isn’t.
Okay, I did struggle, but I set myself a two month period to make the transition which included selling two record decks plus associated amps, a CD player, all my remaining Vinyl and the appraisal and purchase of a Dac.
These days I unplug my HRT Music Streamer and put it in my pocket along with a portable hard drive when I visit my friends and when the appropriate moment arrives it’s me that pulls a couple of small boxes from my pocket and says “have you heard this?” :)

[Batty]

We have a humble digital setup we use for background music, I still use the Copland and Howards but the front end consists of a WDTV hd box thingy and a USB HDD it plays FLAC as well as MP3 and with a terabyte of space loads of tunes to play on random. We are happy with it and at such a low cost is excellent value for money. Of course a PC in the house somewhere is needed to rip the CDs in the first place. Plus we have a second HDD with video media on, 2 birds, 1 stone.

[Spur07]

Not only the money - but also the time! Similar considerations apply in photography - where there are still some who like to play with 35 mm or even larger format films. They're probably right that they can get better results than digital, though the marginal differences are less and less, but the time to get it all done .... !!!!

I have several turntables, but they are stored away. I've not played an LP for nearly 10 years, though I do have thousands. For a very long while I didn't even believe that vinyl could sound as good as digital sources until I did eventually hear some expensive decks, cartridges etc. They were outside my price range then, and even now they're not high on my list of priorities.

Maybe when I eventually give up work ... I could do with a turntable to play my 78s too!

Dave,

As I understand it there's little doubt a decent TT set up would outgun digital every time, but it's not just the time factor that squeezed analogue film out of the game (although that was one of several factors in the beginning) - the quality of digital far exceeds film in photography now. The latest medium format backs have surpassed even 10x8 sheet film. All on a hefty budget of course :eek:

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


...but it's not just the time factor that squeezed analogue film out of the game (although that was one of several factors in the beginning) - the quality of digital far exceeds film in photography now. The latest medium format backs have surpassed even 10x8 sheet film. All on a hefty budget of course


I'm in no position to argue otherwise, but I doubt that one of our resident professional photographers Shaun (Haselsh1) would agree ;)

If you're curious, you may wish to raise the subject with him in the Abstract Gallery :)

Marco.

[Spur07]

Apologies for the de-rail Marco :)

[michaelhigh]

I’m computer based for audio (dodges the bricks)
I used to have a pretty decent Vinyl system.
Real life intruded on my luddite audiophile time capsule; moved home, grandchildren, friends children etc.
If I include all the self built bits and pieces, spare components, wires, tools, two pairs of speakers and the eye candy hanging off the walls, I estimate I had 4 ½ cubic metres of kit worth a few grand just to play music.

Shortly after I moved I visited a friend who I used to “audiophile” with many years ago. I’m talking serious converted garage into listening room, Naim and enough valves to heat a swimming pool type.
He had transferred to computer based audio some years ago, albeit somewhat more up market than my current setup.
He got me started with computer based audio and I wouldn’t go back to Vinyl or CD player if you bought and installed the system for me.
I tried a number of Dacs (Beresford, V-Dac, Vintage Audio NOS, even built a couple). Eventually I bought the basic HRT Music Streamer for £130 to try the whole concept out. I believe some people spend that much on a set of interconnects.
I have to say the learning curve was quite steep despite being reasonably computer literate due to my interest in video games. I already had a PC and a laptop so the cost involved in the initial trial and learning curve was minimal.
Much as I appreciate many here won’t want to hear this, the simple fact is computer based audio is here to stay and the sound quality I have now tore my CD based system to shreds and from what I can remember about how my Vinyl system sounded, comes close enough for me not to miss it.
I have less than a cubic metre of “stuff” now. I don’t have heart attacks when the kids show up. I have a whole new world of music to listen to via internet radio, I can organize play lists for different moods, record my attempts at playing music, transfer music files to friends via FTP; the list of conveniences just goes on.
Is any of this going to make me Mr Popular here? I very much doubt it.
Would I recommend it to anyone else? Absolutely.

Horrifying isn’t it.

I'm with you, just haven't put my vinyl away yet. I'm ready for the convenience and the space (see Gallery...) but, honestly, after a day of listening to black platters I know it's going to be hard. Not to pick up computer audio, but to put down vinyl...Hmmmph.

[michaelhigh]

Agreed,my Squeezebox Touch through my Audio Note dac playing hi rez files sounds very good.The best vinyl I've heard still betters it though,bit given the cost of the Touch,I've no complaints.

You are definitely the best proponent of this method of anyone here, they ought to hire you to sell this stuff and then you could make a bundle (nice dreams...). Once understood, it definitely is a no-brainer, especially how brilliant those wav and flac files resonate in my head cavity. (Sorry to sound so clinical)... can't wait for the Touch.

[michaelhigh]

I buy my CDs off Amazon and get them delivered to work. A few people have noticed and said 'CD?? you're living in the past - why not just get an iPod?':doh:

Why? Because you prefer to listen to music that sounds better than mp3? Most people I know haven't grasped that concept yet. They haven't looked beyond the convenience factor yet. They're sonically lazy and don't even know of better methods as are being touted here and elsewhere...:rolleyes:

[Ali Tait]

You are definitely the best proponent of this method of anyone here, they ought to hire you to sell this stuff and then you could make a bundle (nice dreams...). Once understood, it definitely is a no-brainer, especially how brilliant those wav and flac files resonate in my head cavity. (Sorry to sound so clinical)... can't wait for the Touch.

Haha, I wish! You will love the Touch, it's a great piece of kit and so easy to use.

[magiccarpetride]

I’m computer based for audio (dodges the bricks)
I used to have a pretty decent Vinyl system.
Real life intruded on my luddite audiophile time capsule; moved home, grandchildren, friends children etc.
If I include all the self built bits and pieces, spare components, wires, tools, two pairs of speakers and the eye candy hanging off the walls, I estimate I had 4 ½ cubic metres of kit worth a few grand just to play music.

Shortly after I moved I visited a friend who I used to “audiophile” with many years ago. I’m talking serious converted garage into listening room, Naim and enough valves to heat a swimming pool type.
He had transferred to computer based audio some years ago, albeit somewhat more up market than my current setup.
He got me started with computer based audio and I wouldn’t go back to Vinyl or CD player if you bought and installed the system for me.
I tried a number of Dacs (Beresford, V-Dac, Vintage Audio NOS, even built a couple). Eventually I bought the basic HRT Music Streamer for £130 to try the whole concept out. I believe some people spend that much on a set of interconnects.
I have to say the learning curve was quite steep despite being reasonably computer literate due to my interest in video games. I already had a PC and a laptop so the cost involved in the initial trial and learning curve was minimal.
Much as I appreciate many here won’t want to hear this, the simple fact is computer based audio is here to stay and the sound quality I have now tore my CD based system to shreds and from what I can remember about how my Vinyl system sounded, comes close enough for me not to miss it.
I have less than a cubic metre of “stuff” now. I don’t have heart attacks when the kids show up. I have a whole new world of music to listen to via internet radio, I can organize play lists for different moods, record my attempts at playing music, transfer music files to friends via FTP; the list of conveniences just goes on.
Is any of this going to make me Mr Popular here? I very much doubt it.
Would I recommend it to anyone else? Absolutely.

Horrifying isn’t it.

Computers have come a long way in terms of their viability to serve high fidelity music. What we have today is a veritable state-of-the-art platform (Linux) that is a dream come true for anyone who wishes to enjoy the convenience and the benefits of digital music streaming.

Not all computers are built with the same quality, so one has to be careful when picking the computing platform to stream music digitally. I strongly recommend people stick to Linux, and spurn Windows/OSX/what have you.

While I agree that well done vinyl is something that can't be replicated in the digital medium, I've recently heard some examples of high definition digital music that showed me that we can approximate vinyl, and come pretty darn close to that much coveted analog warmth and softness.

As far as CDs go, I can't say that I was fortunate enough to come across a CD player that could rival properly done digital streaming. Not to say that there aren't really good CD players, just that I wasn't able to get exposed to such rare beasts.

With that said, I don't see why people wouldn't give digital streaming a world? For a meagre investment of $300.00 (Logitech Touch) you can gain an entry into the magical world of high quality digital streaming. Plug the Touch into a high quality DAC, and voila! you're suddenly in the upper echelon of high fidelity music reproduction.

As for those buddies who can't let go of the bodily involvement ("I need to get up, hold the disc in my hands, and pop it into the tray"), I'd suggest that they don't need to abandon that ritual. They can still keep their player/turntable handy, and mess with the CDs and LP, get up, put them on etc., only in this case they leave them unplugged into the preamp/amp, and instead push the play button on the remote and stream the same album from the Touch.

That would give them the best of both worlds: preserve the time honored bodily ritual (they continue puttering and bending and grunting and sweating while they place the disc into a player) while at the same time enjoy the clarity, dynamic range etc. that digital streaming offers.

[michaelhigh]

These guys here have laid it bare for the unwashed. Who wouldn't spend the measly dough to get Squeezebox convenience by itself, much less derive the highrez benefits with only slightly more effort and info? Why, I ask, why???

[Ali Tait]

Indeed. I don't think there's a better bargain at the moment than the Touch as far as streaming is concerned.

[Thermionic]

One thing that does bother me greatly with computer based audio and for that matter streaming stuff off the internet is the longevity of the media. We all know how fragile all of this stuff is, and probably most of us can tell tails of how we lost important files, had disc drives crash etc. In the process of coming to grips with a certain software suite ending in tunes I am finding that things can sometimes become misplaced or seemingly disappear. That also a significant amount of time has (if you transfer music from tape or LP) to be spent on tedious file housekeeping. Yesterday I spent half of the afternoon looking for a lost item in the computer (when a piece of music went silent for no apparent reason) and in the end had to go back to the original reel-to-reel tape to find it. The phrase that comes to mind in the context of computer audio is ‘easy come, easy go’.

[pabbab]

Yikes. Last week I needed advice on an amp and was sold on a Hlly t 90 thinking I had the rest in order, but damned if I'm not ready to shell out for a squeezebox touch! Surely someone here is taking commissions!!

That said, it seems somehow more practical to run squeezebox server off of a hard drive than always have the computer going out to the Caiman (either through toslink cable or eventually via airport express).

Am I right in thinking that a Squeezebox pumping lossless files from a self-powered HD into a Caiman would be an improvement in sound quality, or is that not neccesarily the case. In other words, is the Squeezebox much better transport than a macbook pro running itunes?

Not to mention that the Squeezebox will automatically detect changes from 16/44.1 to 24/96, I believe...

[Ali Tait]

Dunno about the mac,but I doubt it's better than the touch. I use a drobo directly connected to the touch. I have to use tinysc at the moment,as the drobo won't run squeezecenter. Still sounds great to me via my Audio Note dac zero.

[magiccarpetride]

Yikes. Last week I needed advice on an amp and was sold on a Hlly t 90 thinking I had the rest in order, but damned if I'm not ready to shell out for a squeezebox touch! Surely someone here is taking commissions!!

That said, it seems somehow more practical to run squeezebox server off of a hard drive than always have the computer going out to the Caiman (either through toslink cable or eventually via airport express).

Am I right in thinking that a Squeezebox pumping lossless files from a self-powered HD into a Caiman would be an improvement in sound quality, or is that not neccesarily the case. In other words, is the Squeezebox much better transport than a macbook pro running itunes?

Not to mention that the Squeezebox will automatically detect changes from 16/44.1 to 24/96, I believe...

My experiences with migrating from Squeezebox Duet receiver as digital transport into Caiman to Squeezebox Touch as digital transport into the same Caiman are extremely positive. The quality of the digital transport makes an enormous, almost immeasurable difference in terms of the sound quality. One of the reasons for this improvement, in my view, is attributable to the high quality software that's installed in the Touch. Also, the hardware components in there must be of a much higher quality.

I wouldn't go with a Macbook as a transport. I'd rather choose a Linux box, as I'm convinced that Linux is a much better platform for serving music than OSX. Squeezebox Touch runs on Linux, which is one of the main factors contributing to its success.

[pabbab]

I wouldn't go with a Macbook as a transport. I'd rather choose a Linux box, as I'm convinced that Linux is a much better platform for serving music than OSX. Squeezebox Touch runs on Linux, which is one of the main factors contributing to its success.

Thanks for your input. However, what I find attractive in the SB is the idea of running it straight off a hard drive. Unfortunately, it seems to run much less effectively without the processing power of a computer from what I've read poking around the net. If the SB can't handle my library of Apple Lossless files and hi-res flacs coming straight from a HD, that's pretty much a deal-breaker for me for the time being.

Can anyone attest that such a setup does work? Maybe using a multimedia HD?

[Ali Tait]

It won't work with just a hard drive,you need some sort of processor. It will work with some NAS though,check out slimforum for which ones are compatible.
The Touch will work with just a hard drive using it's own processor though,which is the way I use mine. Sounds good to me.

[pabbab]

It won't work with just a hard drive,you need some sort of processor. It will work with some NAS though,check out slimforum for which ones are compatible.
The Touch will work with just a hard drive using it's own processor though,which is the way I use mine. Sounds good to me.

Thanks Ali. I guess I wasn't clear as I'm considering only the Touch. I think I remember you saying that you use a Drobo as HD. What format do you have your music in? Any attempts with 24/96 material?

[Ali Tait]

Yes, I use a drobo,though I think it will work with most HD's with their own supply. Ones that take their power from the Touch are not re ommended.
I have lots of hi rez stuff and it plays just fine. There were issues when the Touch first came out,but this was a software issue and has now been sorted. Mine plays stuff flawlessly now,no dropouts or rebuffering. All my music is FLAC.

[dave2010]

Ali
It won't work with just a hard drive,you need some sort of processor. It will work with some NAS though,check out slimforum for which ones are compatible.
The Touch will work with just a hard drive using it's own processor though,which is the way I use mine. Sounds good to me.You've got me confused here. I thought the posting before was about the Touch, so here you seem to be saying it won't work with a hard drive, but then you say it does!

Is the Touch the only Squeezebox model which will work with a hard drive?

I have a couple of other SBs, and I suppose I could try them direct from one of my Buffalo NAS units, though it might be a bit of a faff to try. Not quite sure what I'd have to do to make it work (or if it will work with these units), and as I either stream from the net, or go via one of my computers it's not high priority for me to test this, but I could add it on to a list of things to experiment with for the future.

[Ali Tait]

Yes,but Patrick was talking about running squeezecenter on a hard drive,which you cannot do as you need some sort of processor to run it. Some NAS will run it, I believe the Buffalo is one,slimforum will tell you how.
Yes,the Touch is.the only one that will work with just a hard drive as it can run a stripped down version of squeezecenter calles tinysc on it's own processor,which is the way I use mine. Sounds fine to me,thoufh improvements are meant to be had using a separate pc for squeezecenter,so at some point I will buy a seconhand mini pc off fleabay to run mine. There are some tweaks that are meant to improve sound quality when used this way,so I want to give it a try.

[pabbab]

Great. That's exactly what I wanted to hear!

So apart from my B&W 602's that I picked up on ebay for 100 euros, it's looking like I'll have an official AOS (or Ali Tait) budget file-based system:

Flacs on self-powered Hard Drive -> Squeezebox Touch -> Caiman -> Hlly t-90 -> B&W 602s2. (Mark Grant interconnects and wire)

Sonic bliss, maybe not, but for around 1000 euros, not too bad I hope.

[Ali Tait]

Should be very good! Let us know how it sounds.

[Ali Tait]

Do the passive mod to the Caiman when you get it.

[Ali Tait]

Then when funds permit,buy a nice valve preamp to drive the Hlly.Sounds even better this way IMHO.

[StanleyB]

Flacs on self-powered Hard Drive -> Squeezebox Touch -> Caiman -> Hlly t-90 -> B&W 602s2. (Mark Grant interconnects and wire)

Sonic bliss, maybe not, but for around 1000 euros, not too bad I hope.

Throw in a subwoofer to get those low beats the 602 can't manage, and you'll be a happy bunny until the neighbours come knocking at your door:eyebrows:..

[magiccarpetride]

Thanks for your input. However, what I find attractive in the SB is the idea of running it straight off a hard drive. Unfortunately, it seems to run much less effectively without the processing power of a computer from what I've read poking around the net. If the SB can't handle my library of Apple Lossless files and hi-res flacs coming straight from a HD, that's pretty much a deal-breaker for me for the time being.

Can anyone attest that such a setup does work? Maybe using a multimedia HD?

Two things matter here:

1. You need a USB hard drive that comes with its own power supply

2. There are issues related to the size of your library on the self-powered USB. Touch seems to work better with smaller (sub 100 Gigabytes) libraries

[Ali Tait]

I have about 300gig on the Drobo at the moment and it works fine.

[magiccarpetride]

I have about 300gig on the Drobo at the moment and it works fine.

Thanks for the clarification, AnAlcohlic. What is Drobo (and for that matter, what is AnAlcoholic)?

[Ali Tait]

This is a Drobo-
http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php

Quite pricey for what it is,but you can pick them up secondhand.The good thing with these is that they automatically back up the data between the four drives without you having to do anything.You can also mix and match drives and hot swap them.


AnAlcoholic is what you get for drinking too much!

[magiccarpetride]

This is a Drobo-
http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php

Quite pricey for what it is,but you can pick them up secondhand.The good thing with these is that they automatically back up the data between the four drives without you having to do anything.You can also mix and match drives and hot swap them.


AnAlcoholic is what you get for drinking too much!

Thanks! Drinking too much alcohol, or the other stuff?

[Alex_UK]

Thanks! Drinking too much alcohol, or the other stuff?

There is no "other stuff" in my book. It is in my genes. My grandfather, who was of Irish descent, when offered water with his whiskey would respond "I'm thirsty, not dirty!"

[magiccarpetride]

There is no "other stuff" in my book. It is in my genes. My grandfather, who was of Irish descent, when offered water with his whiskey would respond "I'm thirsty, not dirty!"

But alcohol is an excellent solvent that will help you get rid of any dirt on (or in) your body.

[technobear]

But alcohol is an excellent solvent that will help you get rid of any dirt on (or in) your body.

Just don't get it near your nuts :eek: