View Full Version : Radio 3 FM Signal Strength
I have moved often in the Army, and have always found the R3 signal strength the worst.
Have I been unlucky, or is there a conspiracy?
Spectral Morn
06-08-2010, 21:12
I have moved often in the Army, and have always found the R3 signal strength the worst.
Have I been unlucky, or is there a conspiracy?
No 92.3 coming in strong here in Belfast.
Its coming in as it always does and sounding excellent via my Sony ST-6AB FM only tuner.
Regards D S D L
No 92.3 coming in strong here in Belfast.
Its coming in as it always does and sounding excellent via my Sony ST-6AB FM only tuner.
Regards D S D L
Southampton and almost line of sight to Isle of Wight
Radios 1,2, 4 and Classic FM three dots (flashing 4)
Radio 3 two dots (flashing 3) Sometimes down to ONE
on my Quad 77 Tuner.
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Techno Commander
06-08-2010, 21:32
What aerial are you using?
Recently arrived. The flat communal aerial. Yes, I know, I know. But the signal is there and the noise is very good on everything except R3.
As I said - line of sight to Rowbridge!
I take it you've tried different frequencies (all our BBC radio stations are in triplicate here).
Can you speak to the aerial people, or the block caretakers/keepers?
I take it you've tried different frequencies (all our BBC radio stations are in triplicate here).
Can you speak to the aerial people, or the block caretakers/keepers?
Yep. I am tuned to Rowbridge - digital read out.
Next step complain or try to fix a separate antenna in attic - we have top floor.
I gave a five element antenna away before coming here!
But the iPlayer AAC+ stream through the DAC is better, just the FM tuner is more convenient at the moment, and if the tranny is on R4 in the kitchen the tuner syncs - latency problems with digital streams.
You have a digital tranny?? Shame on you sir ;)
Get yourself a Hacker Sovereign (the one with leatherette covered casing and no wood trimming from the late 60's) or a top model Roberts or B&O from the same era and see how Radio 3 is on one of these.
It could just be that the aerial in the block is in the wrong position and getting nasty reflections at the Radio 3 frequency.
You have a digital tranny?? Shame on you sir ;)
No. No. NO.
It's an old MW/LW/FM Grundig in the kitchen. If she has Radio 4 on, and I have an R4 digital stream on in the lounge of Internet of Freeview the latency of the digital signal makes for an awful echo. If I switch to R4 FM they sync.
In Cyprus I can only get R4 off internet, so there's a Squeezebox Classic in the lounge and a Squeezebox Boom in the conservatory. Squeezeboxes can be synced, so there is no problem.
Roberts radios are nice. It is a recurrent theme of my wife's, she repeats every few months "My brother nicked mine."
Time for my porridge!
Late 60's Hacker Sovereign - best sounding portable ever - IMO :)
Late 60's Hacker Sovereign - best sounding portable ever - IMO :)
http://www.vintage-radio.com/recent-repairs/hacker-sovereign.html
http://images.denhams.com.s3.amazonaws.com/413/413lot473.jpg
This one?
That's the one, which was AM/FM. There was also an AM Herald and, later, a VHF Herald which looked identical and sounded sublime.
These radios used 2xPP9 batteries, but a heavy duty 18V laptop supply may do fine and could possibly be shoehorned in. My VHF Herald went the way of many things after my father passed on, but I still have his Roberts R747 and that was a good-un too.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-ROBERTS-3-BAND-RADIO-R747-/350383466492?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Telephony_SM&hash=item51947b67fc
Techno Commander
07-08-2010, 23:06
That Hacker is a nice looking radio. How do they compare to a Zenith Trans Oceanic?
Just to check , your R3 frequency should be 90.7 at Rowbridge.
I am 50 miles away in west sussex on the north side of the south downs and I get a good signal from rowbridge admittedly through a big ron smith galaxy aerial.
maybe your flat communal aerial is losong strength of signal becasue of a long wiring run (if it has to feed all the other flats) or, as has been said, it's possible the aerial isn't optimally aligned any more - only takes a big storm to dislodge it and many of your neighbours may not notice if they are listening to other channels? Have you considerd a good quality signal amplifier - might help.
Spectral Morn
08-08-2010, 10:14
Just to check , your R3 frequency should be 90.7 at Rowbridge.
I am 50 miles away in west sussex on the north side of the south downs and I get a good signal from rowbridge admittedly through a big ron smith galaxy aerial.
maybe your flat communal aerial is losong strength of signal becasue of a long wiring run (if it has to feed all the other flats) or, as has been said, it's possible the aerial isn't optimally aligned any more - only takes a big storm to dislodge it and many of your neighbours may not notice if they are listening to other channels? Have you considerd a good quality signal amplifier - might help.
Hi
Firstly while this is your second post (first being a while ago) can I welcome you to AOS but......
....Could you please pop into the welcome section of the forum and tell us a bit about yourself, taste in music, system etc.
Can you also add your first name as your signature please and a basic location.
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
08-08-2010, 10:26
will do
Thank you :)
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
08-08-2010, 10:47
There is a Hacker Silver Knight here for sale/auction http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hacker-Silver-Knight-stereo-tuner-/120605933195?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Tuners&hash=item1c14ac7e8b#ht_500wt_947
Regards D S D L
Thermionic
08-08-2010, 10:55
I have been listening to Radio 3 for decades and not only did it always seem that it was weak in signal strength, but the modulation level always seemed to be set far too low compounding the problem. I also find that one is often diving for the volume knob to turn down an overly loud announcer after a quiet pasage of music.
These days we live on the South Downs and I have an 8 element in the loft pointing at Rowridge. The signal strength is now ok but the modulation level is still the same. Not sure about R3, but I think there is a conspiracy by the BBC to force bl..dy digital radio down our throats.
I also have found out lately that as well as the energy saving lamps, low voltage built-in lighting based on halogen bulbs and electronic ‘transformers’ also throws rubbish all over the spectrum including the FM band.
Tehcno, while the Hackers are good old wireless’s from the ‘late good old days‘, as of course is also the Trans Oceanic, I personally feel that they are not quite in the same league. No offence to the ‘Hackerarti’ here (I am one myself), just my opinion.
Just to check , your R3 frequency should be 90.7 at Rowbridge.
Have you considered a good quality signal amplifier - might help.
90.7 it is.
I have an RF splitter/amp in circuit, and presumably there is a distribution amp in the loft. I must get in there and have a look.
It's probably a big mess up there.
Thanks
Splitting already split and amplified signals isn't a good move, as my experiences with freeview has shown me. Try taking the splitter/amp out of circuit and see if radio 3 is any better?
Splitting already split and amplified signals isn't a good move, as my experiences with freeview has shown me. Try taking the splitter/amp out of circuit and see if radio 3 is any better?
Tis worse without the splitter amp, Dave. I started off without it!
As I said, I guess there is a right mess in the attic. Maybe there is only a TV aerial and no Band II dipole at all. Wouldn't surprise me!
Need to find some longer steps to get in there.
Techno Commander
08-08-2010, 11:55
Tehcno, while the Hackers are good old wireless’s from the ‘late good old days‘, as of course is also the Trans Oceanic, I personally feel that they are not quite in the same league. No offence to the ‘Hackerarti’ here (I am one myself), just my opinion.
Thaks for your reply. My assumptions were the same. However it should be noted that the Hackers do seem to me significantly cheaper to purchase and therefore probably offer better value.
I wonder how these old wireless sets compare to my Squeezebox Boom?
dave2010
10-08-2010, 12:01
Brian
Just looking at your original question, I did wonder if you meant the R3 signal strength, or the effective loudness and SNR? I have been round this route in the past, and when I regularly used a tuner with a signal strength read out there wasn't much to choose between at least the major BBC stations - I'm referring to FM here. R3 is more problematic because of its (arguably) wider dynamic range, and reduced modulation depth, so hiss is more difficult to eliminate. I think it is also broadcast at a rather lower average level in order to provide the wider dynamic range - even allowing for Optimod compression. As the BBC is not so concerned with revenue gathering from advertising and ensuring a loud output from R3 it is at a perceived lower level than many other stations.
This is something of some interest to me at present as I'm fiddling around with aerials, and much to my surprise I've discovered that I can get acceptable results on both FM and DAB with a rather simple aerial. It's only taken me 9 years to discover this, having used some stop gap powered aerials until yesterday. The current aerial already gives better results. It may partly be the result of different positioning, but it may just be a better aerial anyway (photo coming !!!!!?*??****).
The hiss level on FM is acceptable on R3 (in stereo) via speakers as the furnishings dampen it down. It might not be so good via headphones, but I expect that suitable aerial mods would improve the hiss level considerably.
Brian
Just looking at your original question, I did wonder if you meant the R3 signal strength, or the effective loudness and SNR?
Thanks. Some interesting issues.
I am reading the signal strength indicator on the Quad 77 Tuner. It's a line of 4 LEDs. Radio 2 will often show all four, Radios 1, 4 and Classic FM will show 3 flashing 4 (3.5), but Radio 3 will show 2 flashing 3 (2.5).
So I guess the absolute carrier strength is least for R3, and, as you say, R3 is the most demanding station because of lower modulation and "loudness".
My Squeezebox is in Nicosia, else I would be using it for all radio. At present I am listening to R3 and R4 from the Freeview Stream captured by optical link from the back of the TV into a Beresford 7510. Classic FM I can only get from the Tuner.
In the longer term I will buy a Squeezebox for this Southampton Flat and flog the Tuner.
dave2010
10-08-2010, 14:09
My first photo to this group! Maybe I've not done this right.
This shows the bamboo pole aerial I'm currently using. You'll notice the careful construction and precision and attention to detail :lol:
However, it works quite well on DAB, and the hiss levels are tolerable on FM. I am using this to test reception feasibility. Slight changes in location give different levels of performance. I expect to replace it by something more permanent, and most likely on the outside wall - at least for DAB. I might try an FM aerial in our rather cramped loft space.
Technical details (!!)
Orientation for DAB - near vertical - correct for DAB.
Orientation for FM - also near vertical - maybe horizonal would be better.
Support - garden cane.
Aerial - some spare pieces of mains wire attached (??) by parcel tape. Connection to feeder - twisted connections.
The mains wire was originally cut to around 70 cm - 2 pieces, having calculated that DAB 225kHz wavelength for R3 is around 1.33 metres. Original version had the wire looped back to form a continuous loop. That worked for DAB, but didn't work on FM. It should have had an impedance somewhere round 300 ohms. Unlooping (??) it should give an impedance around 75 ohms which matches the feeder cable. The design is in any case unbalanced - which I suspect is the case for many antennae - but heck - IT WORKS!
REALLY!
dave2010
10-08-2010, 16:42
Just rediscovering how to use my Sony 777ES DAB/FM set using the real high tech antenna mentioned in the last few posts. There's a display option on the remote which gives an indication of signal level in dBs - not sure relative to what, and what is good, but the results are at present:
Radio 4 - 51dB
Radio 3 - 50dB
Classic FM - 48 dB
I have vague recollections of having figures up in the 70s on my JVC TX55 in a different geographical location, and with a loft mounted 4 element antenna. That set up gave very low background hiss.
The evidence is thus that Radio 3 is not relatively weaker than other stations at present.
hifinutt
12-08-2010, 18:23
i find radio 3 to be much clearer and better quality than classic fm altho classic is slightly louder . i use a cyrus /psxr with ext aeriel
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.