View Full Version : Fuses ( I’ve never tried them for sq improvement)
Thought this was worth sharing....
https://mcru.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Hi-Fi-Tuning-Fuses.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1odN6cUYTRHfbOry3esS8qgFATrd0 tIXzOcyImJ--VPf3icYpozj4fJ_M
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Well now, that's very interesting.
Thanks
I have been aware of this report for the last 10 years, and have a copy.
It might look impressive, but as a test report it leaves much to be desired. My main criticisms are:
[1] The test equipment used is not itemised and named. Thus we have no idea of the specification and accuracy of the test equipment.
[2] There is no statistical analysis. Measurements appear to have been made only once, so we have no idea of repeatability and statistical spread of results.
[3] The work was commissioned by Hi-Fi Tuning, and the report written by GMCOM Technologies GmbH not surprisingly endorses the use of Hi-Fi Tuning fuses.
Many of the differences measured between various fuses are likely to be within the accuracy of the test equipment. Some are inconsistent. Other test results are easily explained (such as the higher impedance of 'spiral' wound fuses compared with solder types), and some results are irrelevant (such as the impedance of fuses at MHz frequencies).
It makes for interesting reading, but I don't give it great import.
Me neither. I use Bussmann fuses because they work as a fuse [emoji2]
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Be aware of Chinese counterfeit Bussmann fuses, especially those that supposedly conform to BS1362.
Beobloke
29-04-2021, 11:44
I've read some pointless crap in my time but that's right up there in the Top 5...
I've read some pointless crap in my time but that's right up there in the Top 5...
[emoji6][emoji23]
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Woukd the results have been better if hifi tuning fuses were fitted in tbe test equipment?
'Fuses'...:hmm: Wot be those, then?
The best fuse is no fuse.
Marco [hard-wired and proud];)
:thumbsup:
'Fuses'...:hmm: Wot be those, then?
The best fuse is no fuse.
Marco [hard-wired and proud];)
Woukd the results have been better if hifi tuning fuses were fitted in tbe test equipment?
Now there’s a point [emoji23]
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'Fuses'...:hmm: Wot be those, then?
The best fuse is no fuse.
Marco [hard-wired and proud];)
Surely there must be fuses in your audio equipment?
Would the results have been better if hifi tuning fuses were fitted in the test equipment?
A sensitive micro-ohm meter will be battery powered to eliminate mains noise. My Sullivan Type 666 Micro-Ohm Meter uses dry cells, and can measure resistances as low as a few micro- Ohms.
Beobloke
29-04-2021, 17:19
'Fuses'...:hmm: Wot be those, then?
The best fuse is no fuse.
Marco [hard-wired and proud];)
I though you were onto something so I took all the fuses out of my equipment.
Doesn’t bloody work now. I think you may be a charlatan.
Surely there must be fuses in your audio equipment?
Lol... Yes, but only in the equipment itself, not the plugs powering it - and mostly they don't exist;)
Marco.
i always use proper equipment as it was made. i figure they knew more than me:)
Lol... Yes, but only in the equipment itself, not the plugs powering it - and mostly they don't exist;)
Marco.
The fuses examined in the test report covered all types, not just those that fit into 13A mains plugs.
I though you were onto something so I took all the fuses out of my equipment.
Doesn’t bloody work now. I think you may be a charlatan.
Put them back in, but the other way around. Now play a Country and Western record: your girlfriend will walk back in through the door and the dog will come back to life. :D
i always use proper equipment as it was made. i figure they knew more than me:)
That’s my theory too Grant
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Put them back in, but the other way around. Now play a Country and Western record: your girlfriend will walk back in through the door and the dog will come back to life. :D
Wossat all about, then? Obviously a reference to something I don't recognise...:hmm:
Marco.
I was being sarcastic about supposed fuse directionality and about Country and Western music in general. In my view C&W is maudlin and mawkish - it's all about your girlfriend walking out on you and the dog dying. Now what what would happen if things were reversed?
The report is well and good except it doesn't tell the reader why so it's best use is chip wrapper. For all of you who think fuses or the lack of them makes any difference at all remember that your incoming mains supply has an electricity board fuse which is commonly 60A, or 80A or 100A which doesn't belong to you so legally you can do nothing with, even if that made any difference. Fuses are just about the worst hifi con perpetrated on the gullible and I will continue think so until anyone can prove a physical phenomenon that's measurable. This is electricity and nothing to do with the brains perception of audio quality. If the mains has spurious noise or Dc offsets I would expect the power supplies in the equipment to deal with it.
Yours in engineering knowledge.
Along similar lines to Marco's hard wired, no fuse......
I use IEC C13 distribution block and IEC male to female leads to each appliance, drastically reducing the number of fuses.
The distribution block has a fused plug where it is connected to the mains supply for safety.
Oh dear ...as a fuse skeptic for 40 years, please do not make the same mistakes I've made.
I firmly refused to even try anything other than the tesco special 25p 13 amp fuses ...because everyone know fuse don't and can not possibly have any effect on the final sound. I mean even thinking about it is simply ludicrous.
I was asked about fake fuses by a member of my face book group ....I did a little research and then ordered every 13amp fuse make I could find on amazon, b and q, homebase etc
I ended up with about ten brand which included SEM Bussmann vernon Marbo etc ...
I broke open of each to see if they contained a flame retardant and to look at there internal construction. None appeared to show the characteristic of fakes... [Google fake 13 amp fuses if your not certain what to look for ].
Having all these fuses I decided to see if I could possibly hear any differences ...fools errand we all know without trying fuse can't possibly alter the final sound of a system. How stupid to even waste my time ..
First fuse in the single wall socket plug that feed my whole system, was a marbo [all system settings remained identical] .......WTF who's stolen my music ?
Examining the removed fuse this was an ancient bussmann that had had its silver plated end caps polished to bright copper [ I'd forgotten I'd done that ]
So out comes the marbo in goes a new bussmann [ a tesco 25p] bang music back WTF ..no longer was it turgid grey music tones
Back in went my original bussmann, the top end had a little more sparkle but it was close.
After testing all the fuses its abundantly clear not all fuses are equal ...and some are down right detrimental to the final sound..
The only fuses that gave a similar performance to the bussmann were SEM you can forget all the rest.
My carefully long preserved dogmatic views of fuses has been overturned in the space of ten minutes .
I Wrote up my experience for my fb group ....
A member who is a far eastern hifi dealer contacted me and asked if I would do the same "analysis" on some of his "power House" brand Fuses..
He gifted me Six fuses ranging in rrp from £30 to £300 not a small outlay !
My Report can be found in HIfi tips tweaks and treasures on FB
Lets just say that everyone of them made the humble bussmann sound dull and undynamic.
The star performer was the Power House Zero fuse that has wow a great many people over the last five or so years. The downside of course is that this was the £300 fuse.
Now I'm not saying this to change peoples long standing ideas......Just don't do what I did leave it 40 years before trying just to make certain the Hurd was correct.
Ive now tried hifi tuning and a number of others that also have a marked effect ..
I'd warn you to stay away from RA super fuse and HD power fuses as they are just busmann 's with sticky paper labels !!
trading standards intervened on my behalf and RA was asked to change the wording on there website regarding certain claims they were making ..though they still sell a 25p fuse for £25 ...is it no wonder people think fuses don't make a difference.
you can read a report here including my comments in the section beneath.
https://theaudiophileman.com/is-it-a-bird/
wee tee cee
24-10-2021, 07:31
Try it for yourself. Borrow a few fancy fuses from a dealer.
Make your own mind up.
I can’t physically fit a 13A fuse in my system. I also don’t see how a 20mm long section of special wire will affect the power feed in my equipment, when it still has all the cables, PCB tracks and components to negotiate.
To try them would be very expensive, as surely I would need to replace all of them?
So to listen to Vinyl, 5 fuses, so about £500…
I am sure that could be spent more effectively elsewhere?
walpurgis
24-10-2021, 08:19
Just a reminder, we respond respectfully here, regardless of whether we agree or not.
I can’t physically fit a 13A fuse in my system. I also don’t see how a 20mm long section of special wire will affect the power feed in my equipment, when it still has all the cables, PCB tracks and components to negotiate.
To try them would be very expensive, as surely I would need to replace all of them?
So to listen to Vinyl, 5 fuses, so about £500…
I am sure that could be spent more effectively elsewhere?
Its a shame ...you don't need to spend more than a fiver .................just go and buy some different standard brands. Even cheap fuses sound different !
“Fuse rolling” is something I am going to give a miss.
£500 could give me a new arm wire, a new streamer or something substantial, that will give me a noticeable difference.
Maybe even a preamp upgrade.
I am not going to blow £500 on 5x20mm fuses.
I have seen enough of these fuses to realise that it was another potential fad.
Like all things in HiFi, some people will love them. We are all different after all.
Different systems, different rooms, different ears etc. but no thanks, not for me…
Before I fit a HiFi fuse to my system, I would also want to be sure it does the job it is intended for.
To protect my equipment/House in the event of a fault.
I don’t fancy checking a “top end” fuse for electrical safety, as if it did work correctly, you would be pretty disappointed in having actually blown £100+.
if doing so then using genuine house and electronic standard fuses would be the way to see if any of the main makers sound dfferent. they are bound to be safe and cheap.
walpurgis
24-10-2021, 10:38
Fuses are safety devices and must meet correct safety standards. Should for instance the use of a non-compliant fuse result in a fire that burns down a block of flats, you may find your home insurers refuse to cover it. Still, you might pay off the cost in a few lifetimes, assuming you've survived the blaze! :eek:
Fuses are safety devices and should meet correct safety standards. Should for instance the use of a non-compliant fuse result in a fire that burns down a block of flats, you may find your home insurers refuse to cover it. Still, you might pay off the cost in a few lifetimes, assuming you've survived the blaze! :eek:
exactly, hence if trying this, you should use genuine house and electronic standard fuses.. i would avoid any that make claims.
Ideally the fuse should marked (and comply with) BS 1362, otherwise in the event of a claim your house and contents insurance provider may well quibble. That said, some Chinese-made versions sold cheaply in supermarkets etc. may be so marked, but do not conform to BS 1362.
Always buy plug-top fuses from a reputable (ideally UK) manufacturer, such as MK, MEM, Crabtree, Marbo etc., though again most, if not all, companies have been bought out and taken over, so their products may not now be as good as that made by the original company. Caveat emptor!
http://www.intersafe.co.uk/news/beware-extremely-dangerous-fake-fuses/
https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/fake-fuses.php
Before farting around with fuses I’d pay attention to any mains block by siting it off the floor on an isolation shelf of your choice.
Before farting around with fuses I’d pay attention to any mains block by siting it off the floor on an isolation shelf of your choice.
What part, or parts, of a mains block is/are microphonic, to suggest that a mains block would benefit from being sited off the floor?
Beobloke
24-10-2021, 15:53
Don’t lift it too high, though, otherwise you’ll make it more susceptible to RF interference which will cause your inky blacks to go a bit grey.
Any decent mains block will be metal clad, and so should have a high immunity to RFI.
Avoid any of those moulded plastic affairs you see in supermarkets.
What part, or parts, of a mains block is/are microphonic, to suggest that a mains block would benefit from being sited off the floor?
No idea. All I can tell you, using a Musicworks block, is that the sound changes depending on the surface on which it is placed. Quite a lot.
I like these realms in which scepticism hovers; really good predicament for investigation.
hornucopia
25-10-2021, 10:18
Hmm. My Hafler DH 200 amp has internal (slow-blow?) fuses as well as two glass external fuses. That's before the 13 amp plugs......I wonder if cleaning the surfaces would help, if just sitting there gets the metal affected?
I check mains plugs every 6? months as the screws can loosen (the earth's vibration? According to Lyall Watson, the Earth has a vibration, like a steady hum)
Do you check the screws in the wall sockets as well?
not a bad idea to check screws every year; more if your plugging/unplugging a lot.
Stratmangler
25-10-2021, 17:02
I check mains plugs every 6? months as the screws can loosen (the earth's vibration? According to Lyall Watson, the Earth has a vibration, like a steady hum)
:rfl::rfl::rfl:
the earth vibrates at about 8hz, plus human vibrations too, which declined dramatically during covid lockdown:eyebrows:
Stratmangler
25-10-2021, 17:19
UK mains being 50Hz and screws not being tightened properly in the first place could cause problems.
I know of a place where the incoming tails to the meter were not properly tightened, loosened over a couple of years, and there were sparks and burning smells.
:rfl::rfl::rfl:
A level of detail even us Foo fuse believers don't approach, but fair play. :thumbsup:
UK mains being 50Hz and screws not being tightened properly in the first place could cause problems.
I know of a place where the incoming tails to the meter were not properly tightened, loosened over a couple of years, and there were sparks and burning smells.
i get that if my pants arnt tight enough:D
Stratmangler
25-10-2021, 17:33
i get that if my pants arnt tight enough:D
:lol:
Any pressured interface will relieve itself to an extent with time, especially a screw onto a soft material, and copper is malleable.
In my distribution board, made of wood, I have increased the size of the 'clamping' screws, to increase the area, and use stainless ones with stainless tubing halves against the wires to increase the area of contact. They do still loosen but to a lesser extent. De-Oxit is a help. It is IMO worse generally to tin the wires because they are then more prone to being cut than separate strands are.
Any pressured interface will relieve itself to an extent with time, especially a screw onto a soft material, and copper is malleable.
In my distribution board, made of wood, I have increased the size of the 'clamping' screws, to increase the area, and use stainless ones with stainless tubing halves against the wires to increase the area of contact. They do still loosen but to a lesser extent. De-Oxit is a help. It is IMO worse generally to tin the wires because they are then more prone to being cut than separate strands are.
:scratch: Is this a distribution board you have made yourself Dennis? And is the 'wood' providing the insulation? :eek: If it is, I hope you are using a hard wood.
Would it be possible to see some photos of your distribution board?
I have two, one for the Hi-Fi and another for the studio rack. They are made from high quality plywood, with liberal applications of polyurethane. Insulation is not a direct concern, the sockets being Duraplug 'rubber'.
I would post pictures but I am a muppet with that.
One of these?
https://www.mkelectric.com/Documents/English/EN%20MK%20Catalogue/Duraplug.pdf
No, sorry I am having a bad period; I plugged in my AVI S200 today and the power supply went puff.
This after my ATC pre and power amp developed a fault last week and went back to them.
Mine are plywood with screw on 5amp Duraplug sockets in all positions but one, that other being a Duraplug 13 amp to allow further extensions of low current equipment to be added, by adding one of those you show in the link.
BTW they self destruct, the screw mountings come off. Plastic 4mm threaded 'barrels' have to be superglued in place and ground perspex peppered onto the joint to beef it up. I have three 0.1microF caps across the three terminals as a filter in my wooden boards. For the studio I only use 13 amp Duraplugs because the currents are so small.
Ah, so the mains connectors are BS546 3-pin 5A type. That's OK, Duraplug use rubber for the insulation.
I was more concerned that you were using wood as the insulation, and whilst dry wood can have a resistivity of around 1014 to 1016 Ohm.m, (compared to hard rubber with a resistivity of 1013 Ohm.m), I wouldn't want to depend on that for anything related to the mains; especially as it could absorb moisture over time and start to track.
Yes, I love the 5A round pins because the chances of getting good contact with them is much higher than with a 13A square pin; only a degree off a right angle, and the contact area is infinitely small.
dont believe that report.
never will believe that any fuse change can be picked up by the human ear.
then again i feel the same about so called directional cables and cable burn in!
imo, "burn in" is our ears and brains perception as they "get used" to the sound.
i do believe that any circuit using caps will have a burn in period, but thats it.
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