is a deep clean possible without an ultrasonic

[bbbiker800]

I recently posted about buying used vinyl instead of new vinyl due to quality issues.........But, I dug out some old ones to play and realized I hadn't yet cleaned them but, after doing that I have some that although they sound great, they still have a number of crackles albeit not persistent clicks. They do look Mint.

I've had excellent results with the method/fluids I use but I'm wondering if these ones can be revived by using something else - I don't want to replace them.

So the question is, does anyone have a suggestion for fluids that can deep cleaning LP's using a RCM only ??

FYI I use a ProJect VCS with 3 cleaning cycles > 1st Groovinator, 2nd Wash-it, 3rd Distilled Water wash.

All ideas gratefully received

richard

[Gazjam]

Would respectfully say your process and thinking is getting in the way of enjoying the music you like.

Lot of us have been there.

[Macca]

It's impossible to tell if the crackle is due to dirt still in the grooves or actual groove damage.

You could buy an ultrasonic cleaner and it still doesn't sort it and then you've spent that cash for nothing.

Maybe see if you can take a few of the records round to someone who already has one?

With the vacuum machines really bad records sometimes need 3 or 4 going overs. Or you could use the wood glue method on them.

Failing all that CDs are very cheap nowadays.

[CageyH]

I tried a “CD” on my SL1200.
The sound was rubbish. It was useful for setting the bias though.

[Macca]

You probably playing it at the wrong speed :D

[Barry]

And Side 1 always sounds better than Side 2. ;)

[CageyH]

Getting the disc dead centre was also problematic.

[Barry]

Oh - I just enlarge the hole so I can use the 45rpm adapter.

[bob4333]

.......after doing that I have some that although they sound great, they still have a number of crackles albeit not persistent clicks. They do look Mint.


Although my buying experience of new vinyl is largely positive I have had this with some examples of new stuff. Normally I'd send it back every time but occasionally it's borderline (replacement could be worse?). It's annoying and even after a couple of washes there is no change. Sadly I'm left with the conclusion it's there in the poor quality raw material or contamination entering the pressing process. Probably batch dependent.

Once you can condition yourself to rise above some of the limitations of vinyl listening life gets easier, but it shouldn't be like this. New vinyl manufacture is a massive cash cow that continues to be profitably milked.

[AJSki2fly]

So the question is, does anyone have a suggestion for fluids that can deep cleaning LP's using a RCM only ??

FYI I use a ProJect VCS with 3 cleaning cycles > 1st Groovinator, 2nd Wash-it, 3rd Distilled Water wash.

All ideas gratefully received

richard

As others will tell you I have been through various cleaning processes and have posted about iton AoS detail several times. I started with the manual Knosti Anti-Stat cleaner and tried various fluids and wash/rinse cycles. I ten created my own cleaner from and old turntable and a modified wet/dry vacuum with the wand carefully modified to remove fluids whilst I manually spun the records. After researching on the web I found a home brew fluid of 10-20% Pure Isopropyl Alcohol, 80% distilled water and an enzyme cleaner called Triton-X, I also add the wetting agent(although this may be overkill).

Initially I clean with old record carbon fibre anti-static brush, then wash with the cleaning brew, vacuum, then clean with L'Art Du Son mix vacuum then rinse with with distilled water(with some wetting agent added), then vacuum dry, and put into a drying rack to allow the last remnants of water to evaporate. The slip into new PVC liners https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07HB2J88B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The above works pretty well but is quite labour intensive and time consuming, I have found that records which have been subjected to smokey atmospheres are the hardest to get clean a get rid of the crackle pop syndrome. I was given some from 2 friends, one smoked when younger and the other did not, nearly all the records from the non-smoker cleaned up and played perfect first time. The records from the smoker were a different matter, often thet would take several cleans, the more popular the record the more times it took to clean it, presumably due to it being out the sleeve more often in a smokey environment.

I persevered with the above for a while and then purchased an ultrasonic record cleaner from china, similar to this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultrasonic-Records-Cleaning-Function-Electric/dp/B08BZ6W4WH/ref=sr_1_7?crid=1NBD13ZI22575&dchild=1&keywords=ultrasonic+record+cleaner&qid=1618564489&s=electronics&sprefix=ultrasonic+%2Celectronics%2C152&sr=1-7. Mine will take up to 10 records at one time, so it is a big saving on time, I clean a batch for 15-20 minutes in the U/S machine and then rinse with distilled and then vacuum as before. This generally gives better results in my opinion that the previous process. However I have found that some records can be very stubborn, especially if from a smokey atmosphere, so in this case I will give them an extended manual clean with the L'art du Son, then rinse and then through my normal process, in most cases this results in a quiet replay. If not then I will retry once or twice more and then accept that the record probably has groove damage.

By the way everything I have read on the topic indicates that groove damage is likely to be quite rare, unless a record has been played with a severely damaged stylus in its life, most noise from the groove will be due to accumulated dirt and grease(from fingers), and tar from cigarettes/open fires which has solidified and become trapped, it can be very difficult to remove fully. I have one copy of Led Zeppelin III, a favourite of mine and an early pressing, hardly any surface marks and no scratches, initially it sounded pretty bad with persistent background crackle, I was given this from a smoker who had owned it from new. After at least 6 manual cleans gave up on it, by a persisted and after a 3 further cleans with the U/S machine it is now VG+.

Here is the cleaning fluid info:

Be careful with the Triton-X it is an industrial enzyme cleaner and will kill skin cells, used in manufacture od cleaning products, always wear gloves and eye protection, you must dilute it down as below and keep in a safe place

5L of distilled water, 1L (one large bottle) of 99% IPA and 5ml of technical grade Triton X-100 or 25ml ILFORD ILFOTOL WETTING AGENT


For a 50 ml batch of solution:
(1 teaspoon = 4.929 ml> say 5 ml for those using droppers)
5 ml (1 teaspoon) of Triton X-100
45 ml (9 teaspoons) of Distilled Water
Mix solution and let sit approx 10 hrs (overnight) or add 99% IPA to speed dilution

From Vince "You want a final concentration of detergent around 0.1 to 0.2%"
50 ml = 1.69 oz
1 gal = 128 oz
1.69 oz solution / 128 (oz/gal) water = 0.013 =1.3%
therefore
1.69 oz of solution to 1 gal water = 1.3%;
1.69 oz of solution to 10 gal water = 0.13%;
Use 5 ml solution per gallon of water [for .13% concentration (light rinsing & ultrasonics), use 50 ml solution per gallon of water for rough cleaning]

So for my 10 L Ultrasonic Cleaner that uses 2 gals of Distilled Water, I would need 10 ml of solution.
For the Spin Clean tank that uses 24 ozs (.1875 gals) of Distilled Water, I would need 2 ml of solution.

For 5L Ultrasonic Cleaner need 6.5ml of solution.

For 6L Ultrasonic Cleaner need 7.8ml of solution.

[p147]

I use a hand held steam cleaner with the vinyl held with suction cups, run around the vinyl particularly the edges as that is where 90% of the problem is (where people have held their vinyl with dirty fingers !!) then I run around with a paint pad pro the only one where fibres can get into the grooves, then I put on my record cleaner and vacuum off, this I find is very effective.

[bbbiker800]

Cheers Adrian. That's the most comprehensive reply I've ever had on AOS. Nice job.

All the lps are visually mint. No marks or anything, all bright shiny black vinyl. So hjthat's why I'm hoping it's not stylus damage as really they sound really good.

I'll try LADS then have a go at the triton though I am concerned about losing a testicle if I get it wrong. Or killing the dog!!

Many thanks Richard

[bbbiker800]

I use a hand held steam cleaner with the vinyl held with suction cups, run around the vinyl particularly the edges as that is where 90% of the problem is (where people have held their vinyl with dirty fingers !!) then I run around with a paint pad pro the only one where fibres can get into the grooves, then I put on my record cleaner and vacuum off, this I find is very effective.

That's interesting idea tho ordinarily I'd worry about warping them?

[bbbiker800]

Although my buying experience of new vinyl is largely positive I have had this with some examples of new stuff. Normally I'd send it back every time but occasionally it's borderline (replacement could be worse?). It's annoying and even after a couple of washes there is no change. Sadly I'm left with the conclusion it's there in the poor quality raw material or contamination entering the pressing process. Probably batch dependent.

Once you can condition yourself to rise above some of the limitations of vinyl listening life gets easier, but it shouldn't be like this. New vinyl manufacture is a massive cash cow that continues to be profitably milked.

I feel the pain.... And share it too.

[bbbiker800]

A member of this parish once helped with use of his ultrasonic but maybe if I get desperate then pva might get used. Done it before with mixed results. Cheers Martin

[paulf-2007]

It's impossible to tell if the crackle is due to dirt still in the grooves or actual groove damage.

You could buy an ultrasonic cleaner and it still doesn't sort it and then you've spent that cash for nothing.

Maybe see if you can take a few of the records round to someone who already has one?

With the vacuum machines really bad records sometimes need 3 or 4 going overs. Or you could use the wood glue method on them.

Failing all that CDs are very cheap nowadays.CD? Wash your mouth out :lol:

[p147]

That's interesting idea tho ordinarily I'd worry about warping them?

Never lost or warped a single one and I have done quite a few! It is only the fine steam and not droplets that soften up the ingrained dirt prior to the vinyl going onto the RCM and final vacuumm that really does it. I have tried all theothere'sIncc u/sonic and none come close to this method.

[Macca]

CD? Wash your mouth out :lol:

lol - pure perfect sound forever! Looking back I think I was insane to stick with vinyl for so long. But - each to his own.

[bbbiker800]

Never lost or warped a single one and I have done quite a few! It is only the fine steam and not droplets that soften up the ingrained dirt prior to the vinyl going onto the RCM and final vacuumm that really does it. I have tried all theothere'sIncc u/sonic and none come close to this method.

Which steamer do you use Paul ?

[Oddball]

Thats interesting Adrian . I rarely play my LP,s because even though I have cleaned them on my Nasty Knosti ,some are quite crackly !
I used a 10-20 % isoprop ,and 80 distilled water and some wetting agent.
I have not tried Enzyme cleaner but I do have some and may be tempted to give it a try ! Cheers

[bbbiker800]

Thats interesting Adrian . I rarely play my LP,s because even though I have cleaned them on my Nasty Knosti ,some are quite crackly !
I used a 10-20 % isoprop ,and 80 distilled water and some wetting agent.
I have not tried Enzyme cleaner but I do have some and may be tempted to give it a try ! Cheers

FWIW When I had a pair of Knostys i used MoFi's enzyme cleaner but couldn't get any better results over the Knosti fluid. Brought a RCM and the improvements were fundamentally better. Worth saving the pennies for unless you go ultrasonic - iMHO around 200 records would justify it.

[Oddball]

Cheers Rich , I have around 150 ,never counted them lol.
I can agree with the CD comments , crisp and error free ,espec when I have a hip joint that needs replacing ,so buggering around the record shelves and loading reloading LP,s isnt my bag at the minute ;)

[p147]

Which steamer do you use Paul ?

Hello Richard I use a Hoover steam express, very handy and very easy to use, there are a number of youtube videos but none do it the way that i do, as I hold the vinyl over a sink with a pair of glass suction holders big eneough to cover the label, then pad pro then straight onto my new rcm.

[bbbiker800]

Cheers Rich , I have around 150 ,never counted them lol.
I can agree with the CD comments , crisp and error free ,espec when I have a hip joint that needs replacing ,so buggering around the record shelves and loading reloading LP,s isnt my bag at the minute ;)

Hi Anto - I have around 250 so personally found it easier to justify a RCM given the bulk are from my old collection plus discogs and charity buys; not many new TBH. But yes I do get peeved with inner and outer sleeves and faff and swapping sides etc. One day I'll stream everything and I won't need to get up !

regards, Richard

[bbbiker800]

Hello Richard I use a Hoover steam express, very handy and very easy to use, there are a number of youtube videos but none do it the way that i do, as I hold the vinyl over a sink with a pair of glass suction holders big eneough to cover the label, then pad pro then straight onto my new rcm.

Thanks Paul; i'll check it out :)