Flatpopely Bake Off 31st July 2010

[flatpopely]

Well its over for another year, roll on 2011! I think it’s a great credit to everyone who attended that it was a great success. No egos or agendas just a right good laugh.

So first things first;

Thank you to:-
YNWOAN who helped me set things up the day before and also with the smooth running of the day.

Guy, Pure Sound, for the loan of the P2 and T10 MM/MC step-up combo, might fine it sounded to. Also thanks to Guy for the ‘Ginger Beer’ – hic!

Peter @ Cymbiosis and Linn for the loan of the Uphorik mm/mc phono stage.

Simon who took the videos and great they were too!

Jonathan Ribbee for the listening cake, again it was superb!

Last, BUT NOT LEAST, everyone else who turned up to listen or brought a deck, drinks etc., all very MUCH appreciated.

The event unfolds:-

A quick overview of Friday.
Mark arrived midday and we set about taking out the Prefix from my deck so that I could use the P2/Uphorik. He used my shiny new LP12 setup jig and declared it a joy to use. Previously he used my SO table with blutak to prevent the deck falling off but it was all a bit tearful TBH. The jig made it much, much easier to work on the LP12.
Once the Prefix was removed he fitted the Linn Silver T Kable to my LP12.
He then moved on to setting up the Sound Organisation table for the bake-off decks while I made the Lamb kebabs and cleaned/tidied up. Once this was all done we setup the phono stages on to the stand and connected up the LP12 to the Uphorik, we hit a big problem. It would appear that the Uphorik has a much more extended frequency response in the bass than the Prefix as we got huge feedback when the volume was turned up. The cone flap was quite alarming. We tried several things to no avail; this ate time up like you would not believe! So we decided to put the Prefix back into the LP12 and while this was being done I got my Dads AR Legend/Basik Plus/AT95E to try out the phono stages, both worked perfectly.
With the Prefix back in to the LP12 all was well but we concluded that I would have to investigate better sitting for the LP12 in the future. Problem is there are some domestic considerations to overcome, but that's for the future……

We had dinner, went to the pub!

The day itself.

Because we had been good boys we did not have hangovers, result, as last years were hideous! Mark and I were attempting to tidy up while the Tasmanian devil (TD aka as Abigail, 21 month old daughter) and my wife got in the way, she won’t read this………….
At 10:15 a car pulled up, “this can’t be someone?” we said, it was! Because at that point things were, shall we say somewhat stressed in the Popely house, I had to politely ask the person to go away and come back later. I won’t say who it was but I am pleased to report he was most gracious and there was no problem.
Sarah and Abigail left at 10:30am and Mark and I did a super speedy final clean. We also checked out the system to make sure all was OK, it was. We waited………..and they arrived. What a great turnout. Keith had already sent his apologies from Purite Audio, so the only no-show was ‘Blueyes’ who turned up at my work premises, I’m not sure why but I don’t think there is any harm done.
I declared the booze fridge open at 1:00pm and we all drank some nice beers etc and had a nice BBQ half way through the day.
When we wound up at 6:00pm people were still sat chatting and laughing and joking, it was really nice to see.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4920-1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4918-1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4911-1.jpg

After this Mark, Pete, Guy and myself met in the local pub and talked utter bollocks for 4 hours!


The decks and my opinion of the decks (it’s my opinion not the law):-

So we set down to listen to the decks. Each one played the bake-off track and then we played it on my LP12 for comparison purposes. After that the deck owner was able to play what they wanted and in addition I reserved the right to play something I wanted to hear (I exercised this right a few times). Please bear in mind that I thought every deck sounded fine so I am just highlighting the bits that did not work for me and most important in the context of my system and the bake off track.
Feel free to add your comments about what you thought although these may change when I name the needle drops……….

In no particular order:-

Michel Gyro SE/SME IV/Denon DL304 (used with the Uphorik)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4885-1.jpg

Nice looking deck especially the silver SME. John decided to use it without the suspension covers in place.
A very polite sound I must say. It still had detail and timbre but did not seem to have a lot of dynamic range on the track. Still enjoyable, but not for me in my system.




SME10/SME V/Linn Karma (used with Uphorik – balanced)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4895-1.jpg

Something about the black SME and Karma really did it for me, it looked ace. Still I though it too tonally grey and it was as though the Karma was struggling to escape and show what it can do. Speed stability was great though and notes were well define but I though it lacking a bit in the lower bass. Again, I could have lived with this in my system.




Phonosophie No3/Thorens TP90/Technics EPC205– (used with Uphorik)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4902-1.jpg

Wow, this did it for me! Very similar to the LP12 I thought although lacked something due to the EPC205. Its had power, timbre, detail and a joie de vivre I liked.
Can’t wait to hear it with the Arkiv B Sharif has at ESC being rebuilt. If I had to buy a new deck and the RubiKon LP12 was not around this is the one I would choose from those present.




Voyd/Alphason HR100s/IO (used with P2)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4889-1.jpg

The much anticipated Voyd had a very big but detailed sound. The power did not overcome the timbre of the notes though. I still can’t get on with that £10k+ cart though……………..still I would be more than happy to live with this deck.




Well Tempered Amadeus/WT arm/DV20XL2 (used with P2)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4905-1.jpg

What a cunning bit of engineering the golf ball arm thingy is. How many other decks can you adjust the azimuth on the fly? Some did not like the looks but I really did.
This deck got almost as many oohs and ahhs as the Voyd. The sound was very considered but with superb dynamics and detail. I though it had the same macro/micro ability as my LP12 but perhaps with more refinement but less punch. Came a close second to the P3 for me, in my system.




Uber Lenco/Syrinx PU2/Denon 103 (used with the P2)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4891-1.jpg

The shock of the day, Simons impossibly cheap Lenco actually sounded tight and punchy but not ragged. It was amazing to hear the detail and dynamics from this deck, considering the price it was superb, really surprising. It lost out when things got busy as the finer details of the notes and quiet sounds got lost in the mix. Overall big thumbs up.




Garrard 401/Notts A Omega Point/Denon DL110 (used with the P2)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Bake%20off%2031072010/DSC_4916-1.jpg

I have never heard a 401 before so was looking forwards to this as people rave about them. The timing and punch was right on the money. It timed like a ‘bitch’. The mid and treble were not as good and I suspect that this is down to the cart not being good enough for the deck.



Linn LP12/IttokLVII/Troika (used with Prefix K)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w258/Andrew_Popely/Hi%20Fi/Wam%20Show%202010/007-3.jpg

I'll let others post what they thought of my deck. All I will say is that I won't be selling it as it does all I want it to, that's not to say it was the best or that it was bettered. :cool:




Thanks again to everyone!

[John]

Nice write up Andrew sounds like you all had a good time

[flatpopely]

Nice write up Andrew sounds like you all had a good time

Amongst the highlights was playing 'Strip the Soul' on the Phonosophie, Voyd and WTA!

[chris@panteg]

Thankyou Andrew for staging this excellent event , and what a marvelous array of analog finery on display .


There is one thing that intrigues me ' did anyone feel like changing after hearing all the decks or was it a case of no ' i am happy with what i have ' like you stated ? .

[chris@panteg]

May i congratulate Andrew and Mark for getting it to sound that good i picked it almost without hesitation on hearing all the rips a second time , fascinating but....

I'm sticking with my Techie:)

[YNWaN]

Many thanks Chris and I'm glad you had fun listening to the recordings. Unfortunately, the whole post event experience has been so full of idiots whinging, whining and generally giving useless advice (not to mention those taking the opportunity to make cheap political jibes or intent on seeing conspiracies everywhere), that Andrew and I have decided not to do recordings next year. The results/experience of the bake-off will only be for those who actually attend (assuming they can find the address).

There was supposed to be a Technics there this year but the best laid plans and all that - another time perhaps.

[chris@panteg]

Mark ' i am not surprised really nobody wanted their prized deck to come last or get dissed , for my part i tried to just go by instinct and be as honest as i could , no agenda from me.

I am a bit stunned i picked the LP12 but i also chose the P3 1st time so perhaps Andrew and i have a similar idea of vinyl replay ! i don't know , 1st time round i nearly picked the Voyd or 401 as the winner but was dithering lol.

Maybe next year i can bring my Techie along ' i hope to have a better cartridge by then as i don't feel my 160 is quite good enough .

The bottom line though is people are missing the point of the whole thing , for me i just love turntables and the whole analog thing , obsolete some say ' sad some say ' but i am still obsessed with it (and the Music of course) must not lose sight of that.

[YNWaN]

Don't get me wrong, the people who actually came on the day were no problem at all - very good company indeed. It's all the armchair experts who can't even be arsed to do anything but complain that annoy me.
_______________

Yes, by all means bring your Techie next year (though a year is a long time).

[chris@panteg]

Sorry Mark ' what i meant was some of the peeps on PF who have the same decks.

[YNWaN]

Ah yes indeed, so many axes to grind. I notice that there seemed to be a couple of people very keen to promote the value of the Well Tempered (not that the needle-drops didn't do that for them - a fine piece of equipment).

[chris@panteg]

Mark ' question ' which on the day was the deck you enjoyed most , or a top 3 if you like ? .

[YNWaN]

My own top three would be the LP12, the Well tempered (which I was impressed by) and the Voyd (nicely made).

[pure sound]

It was an interesting & enjoyable day. Both of the idler driven decks did the idler thing but for me lacked some finesse and the ability to retrieve really low level stuff from a quiet background. I think some of that comes from the absence of a well conceived system of isolation and some from the fact that both (?) were sporting Denon MC's, one a 103 the other a 110. Neither owner had really gone to town on their plinth arrangements which might have yielded further improvements. It reminded me of what I liked & didn't like about the 301 when I was using one back in my college days (1984)

Andrew's LP12 sounded tidier than most LP12's I've heard but still sounded a little too tubby & lacking in drive particularly when listened to straight after the Voyd.

The SME didn't fare particularly well via the needledrops but was solid & uncoloured sounding if a little matter of fact. I still like the Model 10 though. It had more sophistication than either idler deck if lacking a little of their 'thump'. It doesn't give you its own take on the music but an unvarnished and fairly faithful rendition.

I didn't find the Phonosphie particularly engaging. I'm not sure what people were hearing & enjoying from that. It sounded pretty much as I'd expect the Thorens it was derived from would sound.

I didn't hear enough of the WT to really form an opinion of it. However, I had to admire some of the lateral thinking & clever engineering that it incorporates. I'd like a chance to listen longer to one.

I still enjoyed the Voyd. I thought it was better than the other decks there by some margin, as of course I'd expect it to be particularly given the cartridge & transformer it was using.

I had the opportunity to compare the unedited un-normalised recordings afterwards (blind) and was able to identify which it was.

I'm sure everyone there came away with their own impressions. None of the decks was really poor although it was evident from the needledrops that the Gyro was having some difficulties on the day.

[chris@panteg]

Thanks for that Guy ' i would expect myself to have a preference for the Voyd but i admit a certain bias having owned one .

Not concerned with the needledrops ! hearing the decks in the flesh is what counts, Andrew's LP12 is certainly one of the better set up examples i have heard , going by what i experienced at Scalford , also i would love to have a proper listen to the SME 10 as i feel this closely resembles the kind of presentation i get from my modded 1210.

[YNWaN]

I've heard that particular SME10/V combo quite a lot and I would say that the phrase 'a place for everything and everything in its place' comes to my mind when I hear it. The SME definitely seems to encourage one to appreciate it from a cool distance, rather than inviting one in up close.

[chris@panteg]

I see what your saying Mark , a bit matter of fact ' my Techie does have a certain get up and go boogie about it which is pretty crucial to me:)

[pure sound]

I think it depends where you choose to put your colouration. I've heard the Model 10 quite a few times at Definitive fronting Kondo/LV systems and sounding colourful, involving & lively. Put a more 'euphonic' front end in those systems and you'd eventually drown in syrup & melted chocolate.

[Marco]

Hi Mark,


I've heard that particular SME10/V combo quite a lot and I would say that the phrase 'a place for everything and everything in its place' comes to my mind when I hear it. The SME definitely seems to encourage one to appreciate it from a cool distance, rather than inviting one in up close.

In terms of my own experience with anything SME (save their 'classic' style tonearms with stainless steel armtubes, as opposed to the magnesium variety, the former which appear to have a 'livelier' presentation), your description is spot on.

This was particularly apparent when I listened recently to Dave Anderton's Kenwood L-07D, fitted with its stock arm (and a Troika), and his Nakamichi TX-1000, fitted with an SME 312S (and a ZYX Airy) - the former was to both our ears significantly more involving and musically 'infectious'. It was the same with my modded Techie, which sounded very similar to the Kenwood.

As Dave said during our music sesh, the Kenwood/Troika combo made you want to get up and dance, whereas the Nakamichi/SME/Airy made you simply wish to sit back and tick the respective 'hi-fi boxes' as all present and correct; in effect it was a rather more 'sober' listen, devoid of the 'fun factor' of the Kenwood and my modified SL-1210.

Now I know there were other variables at play, namely the respective T/Ts themselves and cartridges, but both Dave and I have heard this 'SME signature' before elsewhere and could readily identify it in the performance of the Nakamichi, specifically as Dave had previously fitted the 312S to his L-07D, using it with the Troika, where it affected the Kenwood's sonic signature and musical presentation in the same way as it did the Nakamichi's......

Don't get me wrong, SME tonearms can work very well indeed on the right turntable and in the right system, and they are unquestionably superbly engineered, but get the balance wrong and the results are all too easy to hear.

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Marco

Yes i very much agree ' and we can go back to DP's review of the 1210/SMEV , where he said as much which is why he partnered the V with a very colourful Koetsu .

Now obviously its hardly a universal choice at £3000+ but we get the idea .

[YNWaN]

I think it depends where you choose to put your colouration. I've heard the Model 10 quite a few times at Definitive fronting Kondo/LV systems and sounding colourful, involving & lively. Put a more 'euphonic' front end in those systems and you'd eventually drown in syrup & melted chocolate.

I don't disagree.