A Dalek joins the Techie Club.....

[Spectral Morn]

HI Guys

As some of you might have guessed with my recent Techie related questions, I have indeed as of today joined the Technics 1200 owners club.

Recently I spotted this near mint Technics 1200 mk5 and as I had put some funds away ( which I was holding onto till a mint Technics showed up) I jumped at it.

It arrived today, in original box, with Ortofon cart, Technics headshell and lid (no hinges).

I still have to fire it up but everything looks fine, no knocking sounds from anywhere etc :)

So having bought an S/H SME armboard from Pete (coming soon) the experiments will begin.

So like many before me, as I begin on this journey I seek the wisdom of those who have gone before.....

I have read that some mods can led to the Technics becoming even cleaner sounding, now neutrality is fine but I would like to stay just to the warmer side of neutral or neutral not to the leaner clinical side of things. So with that in mind where do I go.

The Isonoe feet seem to be the first port of call but after that where ?

DC Timestep mat, PSU, HE PSU, TS bearing or Paul Hynes PSU or Mike New bearing etc etc etc......:scratch:

At this stage I must say I don't see myself going down the platter road due to cost but I certainly don't have any issues with getting the best PSU.

Are the PSU easy to fit ones self ? or best done by someone qualified to do so ?

Any issues I need to be aware off ?

I plan to use my SME 5 arm or possibly my Graham but I suspect there may be issues trying to fit that.

So all advice gratefully received......

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Technics1200001.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Technics1200002.jpg

NB All photos Copyright Adventures in High Fidelity Audio all rights reserved.


Regards D S D L

[John]

Hi Neil
It be interesting how this develops and how it will compare to some of the high end TT you have
Their be others to advise you ....sorry apart from hearing what Marco's 1210 can do I have no idea
Anyway enjoy the journey
The Graham sounds like an excellent idea I understand why Marco likes the Jelco it gives him flexiabilty but think a Super arm really would take his TT up a few notches

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil
It be interesting how this develops and how it will compare to some of the high end TT you have
Their be others to advise you ....sorry apart from hearing what Marco's 1210 can do I have no idea
Anyway enjoy the journey
The Graham sounds like an excellent idea I understand why Marco likes the Jelco it gives him flexiabilty but think a Super arm really would take his TT up a few notches

Hi John

The SME on the 1200 is a known quantity but the Graham as far as I know has not been put on a Technics. While this has the SME arm base it needs to be able to slide back and forward to set the optimum mounting position. SME arms have an in built sliding gantry the Graham has long slots for mounting so you can slide it back and forward.

Most of the armboards I have seen all seem to have a recessed section, I suppose to aid VTA the Graham will need a flat arm board to allow moving back and forward. The other issue with the Graham is the frankly massive arm cable junction box....this recently stopped me trying this arm on a turntable I have in for review, so I have put it back on my SME Model 20 TT and I have fitted my SME 5 arm instead.

Yes it will all be very interesting......


Regards D S D L

[John]

You would have to get someone to make the armboard but think the effort might be worth it The other issue not sure how you resolve around the Grarham so agree might be best to check if this can be done

[Spectral Morn]

You would have to get someone to make the armboard but think the effort might be worth it The other issue not sure how you resolve around the Grarham so agree might be best to check if this can be done

Hi John

Well when the SME armboard arrives from Pete I can get a better idea about this. I could also get someone to do a Graham mount armboard so I can try the other Graham arm I have a 2.2 :) which has Bob Graham's own mounting configuration.

I bought it S/H so had no choice about the bottom mounting thought the original owner had this arm with SME mounting but sent it back to Graham to have the SME bottom replaced with Graham's :doh: Oh well I got it at an excellent price + spare ceramic armwand and a Kimber KCAG , cable so I can't really complain :):) I just fitted it back onto my Oracle Delphi mk4.


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

neil,
How long are you planning to live with it before you start changing things about?
I'm not sure you'll have a reliable datum point from which to evaluate the real effect of changes unless you spend some significant time with at least the naked original.
Just a thought

[Spectral Morn]

neil,
How long are you planning to live with it before you start changing things about?
I'm not sure you'll have a reliable datum point from which to evaluate the real effect of changes unless you spend some significant time with at least the naked original.
Just a thought

Hi Chris

That is very much the plan. So standard arm first (is it okay with say a VDH MC 10? I don't have any MM carts bar the supplied Ortofon), SME or Graham next probably try both then other upgrades as and when funds allow.


Regards D S D L

[Pete]

First, I would consider an offboard PSU, Paul Hynes or Timestep should do nicely.

The SME V with a good phono cable will be a vast improvement over the stock arm.

If sticking with the stock platter consider a copper mat topped with a funkfirm achromat, later you can get a bearing: timestep or if funds allow get the Mike New bearing.

[DSJR]

[Edit] - You don't really need us/me to tell you what to do as I suspect you'll have a very good idea where to start ;)



I'd suggest the Isonoes and Herbies/Timestep mat first (or copper mat etc if you can afford one), as these are tried and trusted. I'm hoping the Ortofon won't be a total dog - it shouldn't be...

I'd probably even look to the power supply next - even before the tonearm is ripped off, as the supplied arm on the mk5 should easily be able to reveal the differences in the motor unit. A better arm may just show the mat and supply changes more though.

Lastly, once the above has been done, you can have a go with different arms..

Will the tricked out Techie sound as good as the decks you already have? The truth will out in due course :lol:

[Spectral Morn]

I'd suggest the Isonoes and Herbies/Timestep mat first (or copper mat etc if you can afford one), as these are tried and trusted. I'm hoping the Ortofon won't be a total dog - it shouldn't be...

I'd probably even look to the power supply next - even before the tonearm is ripped off, as the supplied arm on the mk5 should easily be able to reveal the differences in the motor unit. A better arm may just show the mat and supply changes more though.

Lastly, once the above has been done, you can have a go with different arms..

Will the tricked out Techie sound as good as the decks you already have? The truth will out in due course :lol:

...and there in lies the mystery of this little project :scratch:


Regards D S D L

[Barry]

...and there in lies the mystery of this little project :scratch:


Regards D S D L

I wonder if we will get a report on the comparison? :eyebrows:

[Spectral Morn]

I wonder if we will get a report on the comparison? :eyebrows:

To be honest Barry at this stage I am not sure :scratch: but I would say its more than likely.

This is really about hearing about a great party that some one holds and you either can't go, or miss it, or don't get an invite. Well I have my invite, I can go but will it be a great party ? Time will tell.

I must say that I like the look and build quality of the Technics 1200. This is the first time I have had a close look at one or even handled one. Love the pop up cueing light and the strobe. The arm height adjuster device is clever and it appears to be a clever well thought out design and I can now see why a number of people think its a good foundation to build a high end turntable on/with.

Regards D S D L

[chris@panteg]

Hi Neil

May i suggest ' have a good listen to it as stock , get to know its weakness and strengths.

Then start with feet and mat ' then either your V or a good psu , your choice then finally the Timestep bearing ' not the the HR or MN unless you want to go for the upgraded platter as there is no point in my view ! .

With say the Isonoes a good mat like the Herbies and perhaps the copper mat too !, a PH or Timesep psu , Timestep bearing and your SMEV and whatever cart you fancy .

I will be surprised if your dissapointed as i think its right up there with some of the best! certainly at the money spent .

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil

May i suggest ' have a good listen to it as stock , get to know its weakness and strengths.

Then start with feet and mat ' then either your V or a good psu , your choice then finally the Timestep bearing ' not the the HR or MN unless you want to go for the upgraded platter as there is no point in my view ! .

With say the Isonoes a good mat like the Herbies and perhaps the copper mat too !, a PH or Timesep psu , Timestep bearing and your SMEV and whatever cart you fancy .

I will be surprised if your dissapointed as i think its right up there with some of the best! certainly at the money spent .

Thanks for that advice...

Even if the better bearings are overkill with the standard platter would there not be any benefits ? in replacing the Technics bearing with them. Are the new bearings just about supporting a very heavy platter.

Regards D S D L

[chris@panteg]

No ' all i am saying is Dave's £175 Timestep bearing is all you may need if you don't intend getting the heavy platter , but on the other hand , if money is not an issue then get Dave's forthcoming HR bearing or Mike's bearing then you also have the option of taking it further .

There will be differences of course but its with the heavy platter where the more expensive bearings come into ther own ! if i wanted to take it further its going to cost me £800 to £1000 give or take to upgrade the bearing and platter
! that's more than i have spent on the whole deck so far ! less arm .

But hey its just my opinion ' go for the Mike new if you wish or wait for Dave's mega bearing , i am sure its going to be superb.

[Spectral Morn]

Just had a casual listen with the Ortofon SPro MM, with its 4 g tracking :eek: Never had a cart that tracked so heavy before. Anyway not bad at all typical Ortofon concord cart sound but a tad better than an OM10.

I had to do a makeshift stand for the Techie to sit on, so it was hardly ideal (a computer chair and a Quadrapod board-anyone remember those ?) I will do a proper listen when I am not so knackerd (I can't face lifting my SME Model 20 down from the wall shelf tonight)and I may try a VDH MC cart in the Techie headshell just to see what that is like.

However what I did hear was very interesting indeed :)


Regards D S D L

[Techno Commander]

The Ortofon is one of the cartridges designed for "club use" and the 4g tracking weight is to stop it bouncing all over the place.

[DSJR]

The BBC chose the OM-Pro because of its superior record wear characteristics over the Shure SC35C's they'd been using before. The Concord body will happilly take any of the OM styli I think.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I could maybe bring mine when I come over Neil if you wanna get a look under the hood and see/hear some of my mods in place etc? I have a flight case :)

[Spectral Morn]

I could maybe bring mine when I come over Neil if you wanna get a look under the hood and see/hear some of my mods in place etc? I have a flight case :)

Hi Hamish


That would be very interesting and useful if it does not cause you any problems to do so.


Regards D S D L

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I'll see how heavy it is when I have all my other kit I need to bring ... And how easy it is to get to the relevent airport etc... Can't see it being a major issue though!

[Citation16]

Thanks for that advice...

Even if the better bearings are overkill with the standard platter would there not be any benefits ? in replacing the Technics bearing with them. Are the new bearings just about supporting a very heavy platter.

Regards D S D L

The bearing on the tecknics is the one to the left in the photo taken from Dave's web site
http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/index.htm

The bearing to the right is Dave's bearing.

For a light platter, I suppose the stock bearing is fine.

The Mike New bearing, not on the above link, (someone find a photo...) is so much better sonically because its so well made and a better design.
It will support any further upgrade to a heavy platter.

In any case, you seem to have the chance to compare with a modded technics & that's an ideal situation.:)

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Guys....

Wee update as to where I am with this now.

Technics now on my Target wall shelf, which has a granite shelf. I am using some SSC supports underneath the feet. I will try RDC cones and other possible isolation items I have before I go down the road of buying anything else to try. I have also replaced the Technics mat with a friends Origin live mat.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Technics1200004.jpg

So what's up ahead ? ...well I am enjoying the Ortofon MM Spro cart at the minute but I plan to try a MC cart in the Technics headshell I got with the 1200. The slot in its back is begging to be filled with something like cork. I used cork in the back of the headshell of a Graham 2.2 ceramic arm wand I have. The original damping spot was missing so I had cork to hand and made a new damping spot out of it. This sounds really good, not better than the material Bob Graham uses, just different.

Thanks to Black Adder the Pig2 will be pressed into action this afternoon and later in the week thanks to Pete's Technics SME armboard (both got in the last day or so) my SME 5 will be installed on the 1200. Now that will be very interesting.

Currently playing Ultramarine's album Every Man and Woman is a Star.....:)

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Technics1200003.jpg

What do Technics owners use for cleaning the rubber base of the TT ?

edit.....boy this is very good :) What will it be like when the heavy guns get going on it ?

Regards D S D L

[Alex_UK]

What do Technics owners use for cleaning the rubber base of the TT ?

Glad you're enjoying the Techie Neil. I'm still curious to try one myself, but not for a while until the other projects are done!

I obviously can't speak for the Technics, but Autoglym Vinyl & Rubber Care (http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m37b77s3515p797&rs=gb) is what I've used before on rubber mats etc, and is very good (you can even use it on your car!) Halfords should stock it, or online.

http://www.shopaway.co.uk/catalog/auto/AutoglymVinylRubber.jpg

[Spectral Morn]

Glad you're enjoying the Techie Neil. I'm still curious to try one myself, but not for a while until the other projects are done!

I obviously can't speak for the Technics, but Autoglym Vinyl & Rubber Care (http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m37b77s3515p797&rs=gb) is what I've used before on rubber mats etc, and is very good (you can even use it on your car!) Halfords should stock it, or online.

http://www.shopaway.co.uk/catalog/auto/AutoglymVinylRubber.jpg

Thanks Alex...a sensible reply.

I had thought Marco would have been along to offer pearls of wisdom regarding the care of rubber outfits etc ;) :eyebrows: :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes the 1200 is proving to be very infectious. I can now see more than just hints of why so many are evangelical about it.

Regards D S D L

[Ali Tait]

Is there any silicon in that polish? If so ,it's not a good idea to use it.I read somewhere that silicon will gradually spread out all over what it is on and can degrade connections between components.

[Spectral Morn]

Is there any silicon in that polish? If so ,it's not a good idea to use it.I read somewhere that silicon will gradually spread out all over what it is on and can degrade connections between components.

Good point Ali, very good point.

Anyone with any other ideas ?


Regards D S D L

[REM]

Good point Ali, very good point.

Anyone with any other ideas ?


Regards D S D L

Damp rag?



;)

ps, just wait till you get that V on it......

[The Vinyl Adventure]

its very easy to remove if you are worried about getting cleaning stuff on other parts...
unscrew the feet and all the screws on the bottom and it will come right off

[Spectral Morn]

Damp rag?



;)

ps, just wait till you get that V on it......

I did but I used a little cleaner in it and it may have dried the rubber out slightly.

Yes getting the SME on it will be very interesting, though at the minute much to my surprise I am really enjoying music via the stock arm and Ortofon cart.


Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

Back to headshells. I bought a Techie 150 tonearm on fleabay for the 150 and it's arrived with the later Technics headshell. Marco has a poor opinion of it, but to me it looks rigid and light - perfect for some cartridges if not SPU's or Denons..

If card-table baize works well with an SME headshell, then why not cork for the techie shell? Good idea!

[Spectral Morn]

Back to headshells. I bought a Techie 150 tonearm on fleabay for the 150 and it's arrived with the later Technics headshell. Marco has a poor opinion of it, but to me it looks rigid and light - perfect for some cartridges if not SPU's or Denons..

If card-table baize works well with an SME headshell, then why not cork for the techie shell? Good idea!

That's what I thought. I will have to dig the sheet of it that I have out, if I can just remember where it is :scratch:

Regards D S D L

[Marco]

Hi Neil,

Interesting stuff! Glad you're enjoying the ol' dance floor filler :eyebrows:

I'll be along to offer some 'words of wisdom' when we get Jet back tomorrow and she's settled down properly :cool:

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil,

Interesting stuff! Glad you're enjoying the ol' dance floor filler :eyebrows:

I'll be along to offer some 'words of wisdom' when we get Jet back tomorrow and she's settled down properly :cool:

Marco.

No problem :)


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

its very easy to remove if you are worried about getting cleaning stuff on other parts...
unscrew the feet and all the screws on the bottom and it will come right off

No, the silicon will spread over a long period of time over a very long distance, from what I understand - we're talking orders of metres rather than centimetres. It will migrate across the room!!

Silicon content furniture polishes etc are banned from this house since I learnt of this.

If the base will come off easily, what's wrong with a bit of elbow grease, detergent & good old aitch-two-oh?

[Spectral Morn]

Its clean now. The problem is that the cleaning agent which included H20 may have removed some of the natural suppleness out of the rubber.

What would one use to both clean and keep the suppleness in it.....

Surely some of our Technics owners can recommend a product for doing this, one they use and have no issues with.


Regards D S D L

[MartinT]

Neil - following this thread, I can't see whether you have an external power supply on the deck or not. I would say this is critical for your next step up the sonic ladder and would even advise that you hold off installing the SME until that's done.

As for cleaner, I've not needed any yet :)

[Spectral Morn]

Neil - following this thread, I can't see whether you have an external power supply on the deck or not. I would say this is critical for your next step up the sonic ladder and would even advise that you hold off installing the SME until that's done.

As for cleaner, I've not needed any yet :)

Hi Martin

No PSU yet or bearing.

I thought it better to hear what the stock deck can do before altering it by adding a PSU or bearing.


Regards D S D L

[chris@panteg]

Quite right Neil , any thoughts so far ?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

neil, just take the bottom off and wash it under the tap :)

[sponge]

No, the silicon will spread over a long period of time over a very long distance, from what I understand - we're talking orders of metres rather than centimetres. It will migrate across the room!!




We use that silicon based polish - I'd never heard of this "silicon migration" until one morning I woke up and a USB DAC had mutated behind the sofa ... :)

Ken

[Alex_UK]

Sorry, I wasn't aware silicone was a no-no - if you need something silicone-free then Wurth Rubber Spray (http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/Wurth_Rubber_Spray___300ml__789.html) might be "wurth" a go? (sorry...)

[SPS]

i always thought castor oil was the natural rubber lub, it soaks in nicely, leave to dry.. then lightly polish.

to my knowledge it stops rubber drying out and cracking.. and keeps it supple


cheers
steve

[The Vinyl Adventure]

supple rubber!!... marco must be ill if he hasnt perked up with anything yet... marco i hope you feel better soon

[Spectral Morn]

supple rubber!!... marco must be ill if he hasnt perked up with anything yet... marco i hope you feel better soon

Indeed ;)



Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

Quite right Neil , any thoughts so far ?

Hi Chris

Went to have a fiddle tonight and I have discovered that all my set up bits and bobs are well over 100 + miles away :doh: I was visiting with a mate of mine on Monday and Tuesday and I have left my set up kit bag at his house.

Sadly all further Techie adventures will have to wait till I get my tools back next week. I will just have to content myself with what you see in the photos.

So far so good. I am finding the sound very infectious. Timing is excellent with very good pitch stability and bass. The music has plenty of drive. However the Ortofon cart is lacking in some detail, spaciousness, delicacy and the sound is a tad flat compared to my other turntables.

I will just have to wait till next week to mount the SME 5 :(

The Technics is a lot of fun, despite the short comings.


Regards D S D L

[chris@panteg]

Sounds about right to me Neil ' the V should make dramatic improvement ! but the lack of space and depth can be substantially improved by fitting an outboard psu .
The bearing mod lowers the noise floor , improving the sense space and clarity to bass instruments.

But i look forward to reading about your experience in fitting the V 1st ! makes sense as you already have it kicking around lol:).

Its taken me some time to fine tune my deck ' but as it stands there is bucket loads of detail ' strong clear bass with wonderful depth and space around everything it just sounds so precise and vivid yet retains that poppy presentation of the stock deck.

[MartinT]

Its taken me some time to fine tune my deck ' but as it stands there is bucket loads of detail ' strong clear bass with wonderful depth and space around everything it just sounds so precise and vivid yet retains that poppy presentation of the stock deck.

Yes, that's how I feel about mine. I was playing early Beatles last night and it was comical: like having two dynamic and detailed mono systems playing at once! They certainly didn't know how to utilise stereo in those days.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Martin

Well funny enough i was playing the Please Please me album the other day ' very strange stereo but still fun and what a stomping beat .

Listening to my 1210 now and its hard to believe its the same deck that i bought back in 9/2008.

Very happy with it :) so a big well done to Dave Cawley .

[Marco]

Hi Chris,


Sounds about right to me Neil ' the V should make dramatic improvement ! but the lack of space and depth can be substantially improved by fitting an outboard psu .


I completely agree.

Neil will undoubtedly achieve a significant improvement by fitting the SME, but experience suggests it will likely not be as fundamental as upgrading the PSU to a high-quality off-board one - and most importantly, removing the old PSU from underneath the platter, where the interference it generates, as a results of eddy currents and magnetic fields, strangles dynamics.

This is what is primarily responsible for the lack of space and depth Neil is currently hearing, along with the inherent sonic signature of MM cartridges compared to the top-notch MCs he's been used to using.

Fitting the SME and a nice MC cartridge will therefore perk things up no end, but until Neil addresses the PSU situation, he will not hear what his SL-1200 is truly capable of, sonically. Upgrading the bearing is very beneficial, but not strictly necessary to realise the inherent sonic potential of the Technics.

Once the mat, tonearm, feet and PSU have been upgraded with something of requisite quality, and a decent cartridge fitted, everything else after that is icing on the cake...

Neil,

If you would like to borrow my Timestep PSU to assess things, until I decide what I'm doing with it, then you are most welcome :)

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Chris,



I completely agree.

Neil will undoubtedly achieve a significant improvement by fitting the SME, but experience suggests it will likely not be as fundamental as upgrading the PSU to a high-quality off-board one - and most importantly, removing the old PSU from underneath the platter, where the interference it generates, as a result of eddy currents and magnetic fields, strangles dynamics.

This is what is primarily responsible for the lack of space and depth Neil is currently hearing, along with the inherent sonic signature of MM cartridges compared to the top-notch MCs he's been used to using.

Fitting the SME and a nice MC cartridge will therefore perk things up no end, but until Neil addresses the PSU situation, he will not hear what his SL-1200 is truly capable of, sonically. Upgrading the bearing is very beneficial, but not strictly necessary to realise the inherent sonic potential of the Technics.

Once the mat, tonearm, feet and PSU have been upgraded with something of requisite quality, and a decent cartridge fitted, everything else after that is icing on the cake...

Neil,

If you would like to borrow my Timestep PSU to assess things, until I decide what I'm doing with it, then you are most welcome :)

Marco.

After fitting the SME for a listen I will be getting a bearing and PSU to take it to the next stage.

I have spent the last year or so diverting some money into a Technics battle fund, just waiting for the right Technics to come round:which it did recently :)

Regards D S D L

[Marco]

Nice one, Neil - sounds like you're pretty focussed and determined with this project... I hope the outcome will be the one you seek :)

Like I said, just shout if you'd like me to ship the Timestep PSU, chez-toi - then you can try before you buy! :cool:

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Nice one, Neil - sounds like you're pretty focussed and determined with this project... I hope the outcome will be the one you seek :)

Like I said, just shout if you'd like me to ship the Timestep PSU, chez-toi - then you can try before you buy! :cool:

Marco.

No problem Marco.

Let me know when this can be arranged, as I am keen to move forward sooner rather than later.

Regards D S D L

[Marco]

Hi Neil,

PM me your addy again and I'll send it on Monday :)

Marco.

[Pete]

Neil,

All great stuff.

I have Mike New's bearing, structural stiffening plate, MKII platter and sme armboard coming in a few weeks. I'll report the sonic effects (from memory, I know... not ideal).

A psu and the V with a good MC will utterly transform what you hear. I think you will be pleased.

[Tarzan]

Yep, please keep us posted!:).

[Spectral Morn]

Yep, please keep us posted!:).

No problem, will do as and when the various extras arrive and are fitted.

Regards D S D L