Dirty mains and phono stages

[scoobs]

Is it possible for my so called dedicated spur that shares the main consumer unit to be polluted by the main ring?

I have a separate switch in the consumer unit for the hifi and nothing else shares the wall socket, I use a substantial musicworks megablock plus too, but I'm getting the occasional horrible loud pop through the system when using the cooker switch, light switch andanother unknown culprit, I do have the wick turned up a bit using a denon 110 through a MM input.

I wouldn't put it past the fecking hairy arsed, knuckle draggin' neanderthal cowboy contractors I used to have bodged/rushed/faked this installation. :steam:

Is there anything I can try without resorting to mains conditioning, I have a few ferrite core clamps around here somewhere.

[Marco]

Mmm... To do the job properly you need to have a separate CU just for your hi-fi which isn't 'in line' with the house ring main, although essentially everything is powered from the same incoming mains supply.

But having a dedicated CU definitely does help isolate things more. I don't get any interference whatsoever in my system with pops and clicks from lights or household appliances. What you've got at the moment isn't really isolating your hi-fi from the house ring main.

I'd have a word with a decent spark and get a separate CU fitted (such as the Memera I use) with a 10mm twin & earth spur linked to it from the incoming mains supply, leading to a single or double un-switched wall socket which you can plug your MW block into. Btw, the best wall sockets to buy these days are from The Missing Link. Scroll down and have a look at the 'Ultrapure System':

http://www.the-missing-link.net/prod02.htm

These are much better than MK for reasons specified! Best of all of course is no plugs or wall sockets and everything hard-wired... ;)

Marco.

[scoobs]

Cheers Marco. I've narrowed it down to the bloody central heating system mate, and I'm having it serviced next week, so maybe I can get the engineer to look over the power supply etc, and look to investigate some of the kit you mentioned. There is a light switch too, so I can deal with that too. Analogue eh! - it's a real love / hate relationship.

BTW. I sorted the tonearm cable out too, the Cardas plug was simply to small for the cables that were forced through and the earth had broken away (as I suspected) so paid a kind forum member a modest fee to tidy up the mess and fit an SME plug, and now it's completely silent, zero hum! Max Townshend quoted me £70 an hour labour to fix it! I'm getting there slowly mate.

I've taken a leaf out of the Marco book of component isolation, I'm getting some custom speaker stands made up by my local blacksmith, as my active speakers have a non-standard size footprint, they will look the business!
Cheers

[Marco]

Nice one, mate. Hopefully you'll get it sorted out when the engineer comes over :)

Good news on the speaker stands. Ensuring speakers are correctly placed and working properly in the room is the single most important part of setting up a hi-fi system. I think you'll find the stands will make a heck of a difference ;)

Keep us posted, and with piccies too!

Marco.

[Mike]

I've narrowed it down to the bloody central heating system mate, and I'm having it serviced next week, so maybe I can get the engineer to look over the power supply etc,

I had exactly this problem a while ago with my Linn amps (now gone) and cured it with some ferrite clamps. Not on the HiFi but on the power feed to the pump, and another one on the feed and output of the room thermostat. It wasn't a total fix, but near as damn it it was. It went from a very very obvious 'crack' to a pretty unobtrusive 'tiny click'. I have no problems whatsoever with my current amp, the ferrite's are still in place.

Cheers,
Mike.

P.S. I heard about fridges and freezers provoking similar problems with their pumps, and that this was a good solution, thats where I got the idea to try it.

[Sid and Coke]

Cheers Marco. I've narrowed it down to the bloody central heating system mate, and I'm having it serviced next week, so maybe I can get the engineer to look over the power supply etc, and look to investigate some of the kit you mentioned.


Been there, done that. My central heating boiler plagued me for years, all the more galling as it was brand new when the problems first started.

My (very) noisy clicks, poPs and rifle shots from the boiler were caused by some relays on the main control PCB sparking when they switched over, i could actually see the spark flash shining through the plastic cover.

In the first 5 years of ownership of this boiler i have so far had 5 new main control PCB's fitted to it, all under warranty luckily . I had to get then replaced as the heating & hot water stopped working - not because of noise on my Hi-Fi :) . Lots of other components on the boiler have been replaced too in trying to find what was causing the breakdowns, it has been a pile of shit if i'm being honest and it always broke down in the winter - never summer. It is a Worcester-Bosch boiler btw.

I also got a dedicted Hi-Fi radial circuit installed with its own consumer unit, however it never really completely eradicted the noise from the boiler, I even re-installed a new one a couple of months ago, after i'd had a new main CU fitted ( picture (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/generaldumpinggroundforgashpiccys/large/New%20CUqus_%20MET_%20and%20test%20socket_%20PS1.j pg)) the main supply is split into two using a service block with one set of tails goin to the main house CU ad the other pair going to my Hi-Fi CU, i also redid all of the main earthing & Bonding as some of it wasn't correct. I built an electronic mains filter network and installed that in-line too at one stage, but have since removed it as it didn't really do much for my problem.
The only way that i completely got rid of the noise from my boiler was whe i changed phono stage. Th two Rotel phono stages that i have used recently , an RQ970Bx and an RHQ10 Michi have been completelt immune to the noise from the boiler - which is still there btw.

Don't forget that the very first radio signal experiments were done by attaching an antenna to a conatct and then sparking and arc across the gap.
Your clicks and pops from your boiler might not be mains transmitted at all , they are more likely to be getting to your phono cartridge, tonearm signal wires, or your phono stage wirelessly ! If this is the cas no amont of mains treatment will stop it.
My advice:
i) Try some other phono stages, see if they suffer too.
ii) Try a different cartridge
iii) look into getting some better screened signal/interconnect cables between your cartridge and phono stage, sheiled ones with the shile connected to earth might be best.

I have a dedicated double wall socket in my listening room that is connected to the Consumer unit using a length of 6mm 3 core armoured cable. If i pass a voltage detector over the armoured cable it doesn't detect any live volatge at all as the sheilding is ... erm... sheilding it so well.


good look i know how bloody annoying this can be from personal experience, only ever on the phono side of things luckily

[Mike Reed]

Would that be either a combi-boiler or condensing boiler (or both) by any chance? Modern boilers, even non -condensing, are nowhere near as reliable as the older ones. My current one is 25 years old and going strongly. Maybe not effeciently, but reliably. That's worth a little extra outlay on gas.

Air-borne 'spark' interference can well be a problem, esp. on phono (m.c. at least), and I used to suffer this, too, ten years ago, from a faulty, knackered boiler. But then I had internal phono boards (Naim). RFI was also a problem.

The change which eradicated the RFI was the Prefix, which obviates the need for an arm cable (SME). A new boiler eradicated the former problem.

[combwork]

Would that be either a combi-boiler or condensing boiler (or both) by any chance? Modern boilers, even non -condensing, are nowhere near as reliable as the older ones. My current one is 25 years old and going strongly. Maybe not effeciently, but reliably. That's worth a little extra outlay on gas.

Air-borne 'spark' interference can well be a problem, esp. on phono (m.c. at least), and I used to suffer this, too, ten years ago, from a faulty, knackered boiler. But then I had internal phono boards (Naim). RFI was also a problem.

The change which eradicated the RFI was the Prefix, which obviates the need for an arm cable (SME). A new boiler eradicated the former problem.

It's possible; switches and relays that throw that kind of spark are at the least likely to have a short life, more nasty though is frequent arcing under a plastic cover could be a fire hazard (itchy subject just now having watched a mates garage burn down a couple of days ago). I have a single phase to three phase converter in the basement as part of my workshop. After a while it gets warm in use and a cooling fan kicks in. I don't like it though; once the fan comes on I switch it off and let it cool down. One good thing is that it causes a faint high pitched interference on my system; if I hear this when I'm relaxing in the evening it's a perfect reminder to nip down the basement and turn the thing off. The boiler in our house must be at least 15 years old and is quiet as a mouse; if it started throwing big sparks across small switches, I'd like to think of my Hi-Fi as a safety aid. Perhaps I could claim it as a tax expense; workshop related safety equipment?