It's Gone All Floppy.........ooh er Missus!

[The Grand Wazoo]

I need some help from you folks.
In all the years I've spent searching through stacks of records in shops, flea markets, jumble/boot sales etc etc I've never come across anything like the disc I found today in the yard of a guy who does house clearances.

http://a.imageshack.us/img837/8049/dscf1305d.jpg

This is a flexi-disc.
Well, what's new about that? I hear you ask.

I'll tell you what's different shall I?

It's white.
It's two sided.
It's not nearly as floppy as any flexi I've ever seen - in fact it's not floppy at all. If I balance it from the spindle hole on my fingertip, it retains it's shape. But I can bend it double.
It's 10" in diameter.
It's a 78 rpm disc.

So does anyone know of anything like this?
How old is it?
Spill the beans guys!

Don't you just love the 'Fit a used needle - greater purity of tone is thus obtained' comment!
Not only that, but it's Non-Flam!!!!!

[petea]

Hi Chris,

Never seen the likes before but have a look at these links...

http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2007/09/goodson-records.html

http://flexible-records.blogspot.com/

http://www.78-records.com/78s-rec-unusual.htm

The Encylopedia of Recorded Sound says the Goodson Record Co, London made them between 1928 - 1931.

Found on Google using "goodson record flexible 78" as search terms.

Looks like there is more.

Good luck (does it play?).

[The Grand Wazoo]

Haha!
Thanks for caring, Pete.
I've just been looking at that very same list of sites.
Also one or two others.
I haven't tried to play it but the condition seems to be very good. The grooves are not crushed at all and the walls apparently weren't easy to damage because of the material the discs were made of. Unless, of course, you used a new needle, in which case you'd end up with a load of white powder all over the record, which was rendered useless after playing.
We have a device for playing 78's in our other house, so it looks like I'll have to get that going to try it out.

Looks like I've got a new oldest record!
It cost 20p by the way.

.......fascinating.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Another photo, a bit closer this time.

http://a.imageshack.us/img72/2293/dscf1306f.jpg

The material is apparently Rhodoid, which is a form of cululloid. The titles are printed at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock on the disc. Some other discs had the image of the flexed between finger & thumb much bigger than it is on mine, taking up the majority of the disc.
Apparently they cost a shilling & ninepence each.

[Beechwoods]

Fantastic find Chris. I'd love to hear what it sounded like. Clearly Rhodoid was more stable than Cellulose, which was both flammable and liable to deomposition... think about all those old films that were lost before they could be archived!

What is your 78 replay device Chris - do you have a gramophone or a 78 styus and ajustable EQ phonostage? Dave Cawley sells a nice 78 replay set, IIRC.

[The Grand Wazoo]

No, it's an ancient HMV wood cased, plug it into your wireless set and kill your records with a steel needle jobbie!
I'll try to find a picture of one like it.

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's an HMV electric gramophone model 2100

Great pictures of one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Vintage-Wooden-Case-HMV-Record-Player-Gramophone-/280538781278?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item41516a165e)

[petea]

HMV!. No, now this is what you need for those fine and rare 78's. My friends here (ex BBC engineer on left) are setting up a DDR-made, portable outdoor hi-fidelity unit in Potsdam. Note the fine iron oxide treatment to the casing that provides tonal neutrality and the care that has been taken in the setting up and leveling of the deck on its acoustically tuned stand. Individual records have been treated on their edges to achieve precise dynamic balance (and the rumour that they have been chewed by rats is completely untrue!). As per your flexible LP, only the better, carefully pre-used needles were employed in this playing session (well, at least the least rusty ones anyway).

Sound quality demonstrated a good sound stage (you actually could tell where the record player was even though it was quite dark) and excellent rhythm and clarity (the sort that gets you tapping your feet and singing along even though the lyrics were totally in German and we didn't know the songs at all). Wow and flutter were almost completely absent - it just got slower. Overall the listening experience was consistent with 6 people having consumed nearly 3 crates of beer (Staropramen, Krosovice and Stoertebecker - although I'm not certain that the brand was critical at this stage of the evening), a bottle of Dopplekorn and several shots of Lauterbacher schnapps!! :cool:

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz65/imsl-imaging/DDRDeck.jpg

[Macca]

Hi Pete

Yes I have heard of but until now never seen that famous and much touted high-end equipment support that looks very much like (but of course is anything but) a rickety old wooden chair. Prices start at £10,000 for the 'basic' model I believe:)

[Barry]

Hi Chris,

Interesting find you have there. I’m sure you have already come across these web sites for Goodson records, but I’ll list them all the same for those that might be interested.

http://www.worldofgramophones.com/label1.html

http://scottgoodson.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/10/goodson-record-company.html

http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2007/09/goodson-records.html

http://www.clpgs.org.uk/numerical_record_listings.htm

and some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIcCECAn5fw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN5VnJm16GE

Rhodoid was the trade name for cellulose acetate used by May and Baker who, along with others patented the formulation. I believe the name Rhodoid is now owned by Rhône Poulenc Chimie.

Cellulose acetate is not the same as cellulose nitrate (or nitrocellulose), it is not inflammable and has the interesting property of being fluorescent. Expose your disc to bright light and see if it glows briefly in the dark!

I used to have a cartridge with a 78 stylus – used to transcribe my parent’s 78s to cassette. No longer have it, as I gave it to a 78 enthusiast. By enthusiast, I mean someone who modified his own turntables and built the necessary equalisation circuits. In those days each record company used their own recording characteristic and rate of record revolution: anywhere between 60rpm and 80rpm!

Regards

[Beechwoods]

In those days each record company used their own recording characteristic and rate of record revolution: anywhere between 60rpm and 80rpm!

And Edison Discs had the modulation in the vertical, rather than horizontal plane... nice idea; never caught on :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Thanks for your input Barry.
I must say, I find this rather fascinating as this disc is something I really had never heard of before. I actually itching to find out what it sounds like.

I find myself wondering how many of these things were produced and just how rare they must be. If they were only manufactured over a 3 year period (1928-31), then I can't see there being too many of them about. I guess this is reinforced by my earlier statement that over all the years I've spent thumbing through boxes of old records, I've never seen one.

I'll keep researching this one, I think.

[Barry]

It's an HMV electric gramophone model 2100

Great pictures of one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Vintage-Wooden-Case-HMV-Record-Player-Gramophone-/280538781278?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item41516a165e)

You'll need to upgrade those interconnects to make it sound any good Chris.

The Van den Hul 'MC-Silver IT Mk.III balanced' at £4,150 for 1.5m should do nicely!

Regards

[The Grand Wazoo]

You'll need to upgrade those interconnects to make it sound any good Chris.

The Van den Hul 'MC-Silver IT Mk.III balanced' at £4,150 for 1.5m should do nicely!

Regards

Haha......yes maybe that would help, but I've got to save up for a 'Koetsu Steel' needle first ........or maybe a 'Goldbug Briar thorn'.........?