View Full Version : Wanted: Cheap Record Cleaning Machine
If anyone has one tucked away unloved in the garage (Moth or low-order Okki Nokki for instance) and wants to save on ebay fees, or if anyone notices one on the other forums (which I don't frequent, because AoS is THE forum for me! ;)) then I'd love to hear from you... my bank manager wouldn't, nor my wife, come to think of it, but I would - so sod 'em! ;)
Ta muchly!
If you dont have any luck i have a Disco Anti Stat doing nothing you can have.
Your welcome to have it to tide you over until one crops up.
If you decide to take it send us a PM.
Thanks very much Colin, I'll definitely bear that in mind. :)
Has anyone ever tried putting a record in the dishwasher? (I'm serious!) - I've tried googling and the only real reference is this rather funny thread on another forum: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1212569 Post #2 is, I assume a joke ("Dishwasher is good at cleaning vinyl") but has anyone really tried, and if not, what do you think the chances are of damaging the dishwasher? My guess is that the dishwasher will be too hot, and there will be a melted mess in the bottom, or maybe the vinyl will break under the pressure of the water?
I don't really want to try it if it is likely to wreck the dishwasher, though I've got plenty of records I don't mind sacrificing for the cause! :)
Stratmangler
05-08-2010, 10:18
That entire thread is a joke Alex:eyebrows:
This should be relatively easy to build http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html
The Grand Wazoo
05-08-2010, 10:57
Alex,
Chris is correct - the 'advice' given on that site is mostly just plain nonsense. I'd suggest that your search for references to 'dishwasher' pointed you to that site because someone couldn't spell 'discwasher' properly.
A statement that may astonish many people: I've never owned or used a dishwasher. So I don't know if you could adjust the temperature to avoid this. I'd have thought you're going to find that a dishwasher will be too hot. You'll probably end up warping things rather than completely melting them. I surmised from my experiments (on flattening out warps with steam cleaners) that if you heat them up and/or cool them down too quickly then you end up with a roller coaster record. And because a record is so thin it's hard to do either of those things slowly.
I did appreciate it was a joke, didn't word my post very well. I'm not having a good day today (my car has broken down) so I think I had better not try the dishwasher just in case! (I might just stick one in there and blame my Avatar if anything untoward happens to the dishwasher! :eyebrows:)
That self build option actually doesn't look too bad, Chris, and I've got an old Dyson I could use which has plenty of suck... Hmmmm.... Doubt I'll ever be ar5ed to do it though!
Knosti is not too popular on AOS, but I'm using that and I'm very happy about. Give it a try. And it's very cheap, too
You could always try PVA glue - there's a thread on Vinyl Engine about it. Seriously. Supposed to work well!
I use a Knosti, with the additional step of wiping the cleaned record with a pair of microfibre cloths. This seems to get the bulk of the fluid left on the record off, and I think results in less noise.
Maybe we should get a AoS shared cleaner? Like owning a racehorse...
Jason
You could always try PVA glue - there's a thread on Vinyl Engine about it. Seriously. Supposed to work well!
I did read that on one of the other forums, and it makes sense, but I bet it is messy and time consuming to do! I might give it a try, though, I've got some somewhere.
I use a Knosti, with the additional step of wiping the cleaned record with a pair of microfibre cloths. This seems to get the bulk of the fluid left on the record off, and I think results in less noise.
I'm wondering if a Knosti but also using a vacuum cleaner with brush (similar to Chris's link for the DIY machine) to suck off the liquid/gunk might go close to a VPI/Moth etc... ?
Maybe we should get a AoS shared cleaner? Like owning a racehorse...
I think the only issue is logistics - there are already people doing a cleaning service on ebay at £1.50 - £2.00 including replacement sleeves, but it is the postage that is the killer, unless you can drop off/collect (there appears to be Beds, Worcester and Central London only covered on ebay, so not really convenient for me.) The value for me would be in cleaning most of my records, so I think a machine of some sort it will have to be, which split across the number of records is chicken feed really, it's just finding another £400+ on top of everything else at the moment.
The Grand Wazoo
05-08-2010, 17:45
You could always try PVA glue - there's a thread on Vinyl Engine about it.
Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. I tried it years ago with PVA as well as some expensive gloopy jollop. If it goes wrong - and it does - you can't get it all off.
Hypnotoad
06-08-2010, 03:33
What about a Spinclean, it's no joke either.
I use one and it gets them as clean as any motorized one and is even quicker and easier.
http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/
I use microfibre towels to dry them, you can buy them in the auto section.
I have had people clean records on VPI's and Nitty Gritty's and they can't get them any cleaner than my Spinclean!
Thanks Phillip - only issue is the importation of a Spinclean as I don't think they have distribution in the UK.
I've just tried an interesting experiment with the Dyson Soft Dusting Brush (http://www.dyson.co.uk/store/parts.asp?accessory=ACC-SOFTDUSTINGBRUSH&product=DC20-STOW-STD) (no, not THAT sort of experiment :eek:) - found a very dusty record (but not particularly "mucky" - lots of hairs, dust, paper particles) and "hoovered" (sorry, still hoovering to me...) it.
Here's a picture of the underside of the Dyson Soft Dusting Brush - http://www.espares.co.uk/datastore/ProductImages/664498.jpg as you can see, it has a (very) soft brush running round the outside, and a very soft velvet pad in the middle. The two holes are about 6 inches apart, and when both are on the surface it really sticks, in this case to the record. Following the grooves of the record, I just basically removed all the debris. *
Visually, all signs of dust and particles are gone, and whilst handling it, there was no sense of static, and it plays extremely well! Hardly a crackle or a pop to be heard - though I now need to play a crackly record, and repeat the experiment - I doubt the one I've just used was that crackly to begin with?
Next stage will be to try something muckier, hand wash then vacuum (sorry, hoover) it and see if it does any good.
* No records were harmed during the making of this post. (And just in case something awful did happen I used a Phil Collins LP ;))
Well, hoovering and then washing and hoovering makes some difference, but by no means is it a cure-all and nor does it beat a proper RCM - however I'm just using Fairy, so I wonder how much "secret's in the sauce" there is using proper fluid with isopropyl alcohol, distilled water, wetting agent etc.? Will find out when some proper fluid arrives in the next few days...
Hi Alex
What about one of these EV-1 'manual vac cleaners' from Kab Usa, just add your own hoover!
http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
You could of course go the whole hog and steam clean your records.
d6OjtKUZ048
I'm just going to HAVE to try putting a record in the dishwasher now! :eek:
My money is on the labels coming off and it coming out clean but rather bent! :lolsign:
kininigin
06-08-2010, 14:34
Do it,do it,do it.
I just bloody well DID! :lol:
Let's see what it comes out like... :eyebrows:
Thermionic
06-08-2010, 16:37
Just a thought; why not wash your records in the kitchen sink with a couple of drops of washing-up liquid?
I think it might have been Percy Wilson who suggested this idea in a 1960’s copy of Hi Fi News. I have used a variation of his method over the years and find that often virtually unplayable records can become pretty good.
‘For the perfect wash:’
1) Find an old Watts ‘Disk Preener’ - one of the current ‘Decca type’ carbon fibre brushes might also work.
2) Fill the sink with about 4 Inches of clean warm (but not hot) water.
3) Put a couple of drops of washing up liquid in the water to reduce the surface tension.
4) Throw in the Preener
5) Place the record vertically into the water and rub the Preener around the record working the water well into the groves but don’t rub the label.
6) Place the wet record onto a flat surface covered with a clean absorbent cloth. These days I use sheets of kitchen paper.
7) Rub a pad of kitchen paper around and around the groves to remove most of the water.
8) Leave for a few minutes to dry before playing.
Sorry if this is old hat and has been discussed here before.:)
Cheers
Well, it's on the rinse cycle... are we placing bets? :popcorn: :eek:
Stratmangler
06-08-2010, 17:30
Washing up liquid is a no-no.
Amongst things, it leaves a residue on the record, which attracts dirt for fun.
Your records will end up in a worse state than when you started.
I've just had a sneaky look at the progress... :eyebrows:
Ladies and Gentlemen, please choose from the following options. I'll keep it simple! ;)
1> Gleaming and (visually) totally unharmed.
2> Gleaming but the labels a looking are bit sorry for themselves.
3> Ruined!
Take yer pick.... I'll be posting a photograph of the results in due course! ;)
Reid Malenfant
06-08-2010, 17:54
2> Gleaming but the labels a looking a bit sorry for themselves.
I'll go for that one :doh: If it cleans the record well it might be worth a thin coat of matt (or satin, take your choice) acrylic laquer on the labels to save them in the future :mental: :scratch: :eyebrows:
Stratmangler
06-08-2010, 17:55
I've just had a sneaky look at the progress... :eyebrows:
Ladies and Gentlemen, please choose from the following options. I'll keep it simple! ;)
1> Gleaming and (visually) totally unharmed.
2> Gleaming but the labels a looking a bit sorry for themselves.
3> Ruined!
Take yer pick.... I'll be posting a photograph of the results in due course! ;)
I reckon ruined - you've effectively given the record a wet sandblasting:eyebrows:
Interesting choices! :eyebrows:
Well they reckon you can cook fish in a dishwasher, so with that kind of heat I'm going for option 3 - Knackered
I'm that impressed, I've put it on again!... this time on the "Intensive" cycle to see if I can improve on the result so far! :)
BTW, "Intensive" has a max temp of 65C. ;)
Stratmangler
06-08-2010, 18:14
So it's assumed a different shape then ?
A bit like this
http://www.richardcleaver.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/disortocaster.jpg
So it's assumed a different shape then ?
A bit like this
http://www.richardcleaver.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/disortocaster.jpg
Oh, yeah of little faith. :rolleyes:
I'm very impressed you've taken up the challenge Mike! Out of interest, what was the "sacrificial lamb" you're risking...? I just have a sneaking suspicion it might be... Gleaming! I was going to do it on the quick (45 degree) cycle - well below the melting point, but I suspect the pressure might cause problems... Oh what fun!
Just a thought; why not wash your records in the kitchen sink with a couple of drops of washing-up liquid?
I think it might have been Percy Wilson who suggested this idea in a 1960’s copy of Hi Fi News. I have used a variation of his method over the years and find that often virtually unplayable records can become pretty good.
‘For the perfect wash:’
1) Find an old Watts ‘Disk Preener’ - one of the current ‘Decca type’ carbon fibre brushes might also work.
2) Fill the sink with about 4 Inches of clean warm (but not hot) water.
3) Put a couple of drops of washing up liquid in the water to reduce the surface tension.
4) Throw in the Preener
5) Place the record vertically into the water and rub the Preener around the record working the water well into the groves but don’t rub the label.
6) Place the wet record onto a flat surface covered with a clean absorbent cloth. These days I use sheets of kitchen paper.
7) Rub a pad of kitchen paper around and around the groves to remove most of the water.
8) Leave for a few minutes to dry before playing.
Sorry if this is old hat and has been discussed here before.:)
Cheers
That's what I did before the hoover on the second experiment. Have ordered a Decca Carbon Fibre Brush (won for £3.55 brand new on ebay!) and also some proper cleaning fluid which I'll try next week - if I have any records left by then! :lol:
Hi Alex
What about one of these EV-1 'manual vac cleaners' from Kab Usa, just add your own hoover!
http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
You could of course go the whole hog and steam clean your records.
d6OjtKUZ048
I've also remembered we've got a steam cleaner in the garage, which sucks up the dirty water too... He who dares wins, Rodney! :D
I'll check out the Kab link...
II'll be posting a photograph of the results in due course! ;)
:popcorn:
I can't stand the suspense any more, I've put one in the dishwasher myself... (Quick wash, 45 degrees...)
I can't stand the suspense any more, I've put one in the dishwasher myself... (Quick wash, 45 degrees...)
....and?????:eek:
Must be done by now surely:whistle:
The Grand Wazoo
07-08-2010, 22:49
Well now, both Mike & Alex have done it and it's made them go silent.
What does this mean?
Are they both working up a patent application?
Did their dishwashers eat their owners?
Have their wives kicked them out of the house?
We need answers........
Maybe they're both too busy scraping the remains of Phil Collins off the insides of their dishwashers....
:lol:
Techno Commander
08-08-2010, 12:55
....and?????:eek:
I guess the label came off. :lol:
Sorry everyone, we've had guests all weekend, so sorry to disappoint you but putting vinyl in a dishwasher doesn't send out some signal to aliens like in Close Encounters or anything.
So, here's the record before cleaning. I decided to use one of my most treasured albums, the 2nd disc from Songs in the Key of Life buy Stevie Wonder. having owned this for about 25 years, and it was second-hand then, it truly is dirty!
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3271.jpg
My biggest worry was that the label would be destroyed, but as you can see from this close up, not only has the label survived, but it is absolutely immaculate!
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3272b.jpg?1281279369
Now, as we look at the zoomed-out version, you will see just how clean the whole of the record is! It should be noted that nothing more than a standard Finish "all in one" dishwasher tablet has been used to achieve this miraculous transformation of cleanliness!
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3272a.jpg?t=1281279584
So there we have it! The dishwasher truly will clean your records! As long as you never want to play them again, you'll be fine!
Techno Commander
08-08-2010, 15:35
Possibly a cooler temperature setting is required. :)
Apologies from me also, I've been to Doncaster to see my dad and other family folk... tis me dad's 70th birthday on Tuesday. :)
.... and now I can't find the USB lead for the camera! :scratch:
Spectral Morn
08-08-2010, 22:13
Sorry everyone, we've had guests all weekend, so sorry to disappoint you but putting vinyl in a dishwasher doesn't send out some signal to aliens like in Close Encounters or anything.
So, here's the record before cleaning. I decided to use one of my most treasured albums, the 2nd disc from Songs in the Key of Life buy Stevie Wonder. having owned this for about 25 years, and it was second-hand then, it truly is dirty!
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3271.jpg
My biggest worry was that the label would be destroyed, but as you can see from this close up, not only has the label survived, but it is absolutely immaculate!
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3272b.jpg?1281279369
Now, as we look at the zoomed-out version, you will see just how clean the whole of the record is! It should be noted that nothing more than a standard Finish "all in one" dishwasher tablet has been used to achieve this miraculous transformation of cleanliness!
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3272a.jpg?t=1281279584
So there we have it! The dishwasher truly will clean your records! As long as you never want to play them again, you'll be fine!
:(
regards D S D L
I was teasing really, that is one of my favourite albums, but the one that got sacrificed was a spare copy - I only had one disc, and it was in truly terrible condition, having been ex-library, the sleeve is in tatters, and the bonus EP is missing too - so I don't feel too bad for destroying it, as it was going to be binned anyway now I have a proper vgc copy which is never going anywhere near the dishwasher!
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2010, 23:01
So have you had a really close up squint at the grooves then Alex?
Did the physical blasting coupled with the chemical effect of the process do any visible damage to the grooves and lands?
Only briefly, not with a magnifier or anything, but they did look ok, and it really was very clean! I'll have a proper look tomorrow. Only problem I have is that I can't go any lower on my dishwasher than 45 degrees so experiment over there. There is a 30 degree silks setting on the washing machine though! :eyebrows:
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2010, 23:14
There is a 30 degree silks setting on the washing machine though! :eyebrows:
Naaah, I tried that once.........it only works on Boz Scaggs albums
http://musicsojourn.com/AR/Prog/img/s/ScaggsBoz/SilkDegrees_300.jpg
Stratmangler
08-08-2010, 23:18
Naaah, I tried that once.........it only works on Boz Scaggs albums
http://musicsojourn.com/AR/Prog/img/s/ScaggsBoz/SilkDegrees_300.jpg
Oooooohhhhhhhhh!!!!!
The old ones are........
well, old.
Stands to reason, really ! :eyebrows:
:lol:
I've got a spare vinyl copy of this - really, I have!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UrJyBqDnL.jpg
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2010, 23:20
Bear with me, it's getting late & it was a good bottle of red.
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2010, 23:21
If I owned that, it would be a spare copy too - but you have 2 of them??????
That's the one you should try with the highest temp setting! ..........both of 'em
One was the wife's the other must have been when I was a member of Britannia back in the 80's and it was the record of the month and I was always useless at sending them back... or something :o
The Grand Wazoo
08-08-2010, 23:28
No, Alex, I was kidding - it's just as valid an album as any other - if you (and/or the missus) like it, then you like it.
............I was thinking Andre might like your spare copy though - he probably hasn't got that one!
I'll PM him! Sue LOVED 5 Star when she was a teenager, and I was really excited when I found a 3 cd box set (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Legends-Five-Star/dp/B0002W198I/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281310364&sr=1-4) for her in a charity shop - she was very underwhelmed, telling me she used to like them, and then when she saw how much it goes for 2nd hand told me to sell it and give her the money instead! Women, hey! :rolleyes: I thought it was romantic. :lol:
So, dropped my little girl off at Nanny's and on the way home I go passed the Barnardo's charity shop, one of the few that has easy parking and does vinyl, and opens at 8.30am, so time for quick squiz before getting back.
The stars being aligned correctly, as well as one or two choice LPs, there is of course a very nice condition copy of Boz Scaggs, Silk Degrees... Oh yes, baby!
£1 doesn't seem much in the interests of science and not only that, I know my original copy is pretty manky anyway, and the one in Barnados just happens to be a much rarer (I presume) Hong Kong version - here they are side by side - The Hong Kong version is on the left (note much more vivid colours, and the different label. (The back of the sleeve is in colour on the HK version not monochrome like the UK one. Anyway, I digress...)
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3273.jpg?t=1281349213
So, I decided to put it into one of those net bags that keep suits together, as I thought it would protect the record... Magic net, obviously! :rolleyes:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3275.jpg?t=1281349213
First slight issue, the door on the washing machine is about 11.5" in diameter! Still, just squeezed in with a bend.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3276.jpg?t=1281349213
Obviosuly, it has to be a "silks" program, "J" in the case of my Hotpoint... I decided to just use half a Bold all-in-one tablet. I don't think there's a precedent yet on what you should use to wash vinyl with?
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3277.jpg?t=1281349213
I did keep checking, and to be honest, the noises where not encouraging, but after about an hour, the little red light came on...
If Andre is reading, I think the light usually only comes on in 1974... :eyebrows:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3278.jpg?t=1281349213
At first glance, everything looks to be ok... It can't really be intact, can it? :stalks:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3279.jpg?t=1281349213
It bloody well is! It is one piece, not warped at all, and looks very clean!
Here it is drying, I was just trying to scare it by threatening it with the dishwahser...
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3280.jpg?t=1281349213
And just to prove that everything is fine, and it really did survive...
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_3281.jpg?t=1281349213
(Don't panic Dave (DSJR) - I did check the record was ok with my old AT95 on the Rega first!)
So, the $60,000 question - how did it sound? Actually, really good - a few crack and pops still, but much better than it did before I drowned it! But, I have to 'fess up - the "magic net bag" (TM) was a bit of a mistake - Side A is fine, but there are quite a few scratches on Side B where the Zip (despite me thinking it was tied out of the way) caught it. Next time I would probably just put it in on it's own. But, back to the original post, I'm still on the lookout for a Record Cleaning Machine if anyone sees one going cheap! :)
So, who would have thought it - you can put a record in a washing machine and still play it, but not in a dishwasher!
The Grand Wazoo
09-08-2010, 18:34
Alex,
I believe you have significantly furthered science in your pioneering work.
Good job you didn't use that Pink Floyd single - we all saw what happens when you put a brick in!
Jesus Wept! Apologies for the profanity, but Alex, I can't believe that you actually put an LP into a dishwasher! :eek: You use salt in a dishwasher - what's to stop this evaporating out and leaving a residue in the grooves?
I trust the victim of the washing machine was subjected to a cool wash (30 deg C) without spin. What the hell did you use for detergent?
Like Chris, I'm half a bottle of red wine down, so probably am coming across as a bit alarmist.
Regards
Let this serve as a warning to you Barry - when your brain isn't subjected to the numbing effects of the wine, all sorts of crazy ideas come in to your head! ;)
I'd like to repeat what I said earlier about no records being harmed during the making of this post, but then I also don't want to lie! Suffice to say, the only truly effective way to clean your records is a proper Record Cleaning Machine. Mind you, I am still yet to fire-up the steam cleaner...! :eyebrows:
Let this serve as a warning to you Barry - when your brain isn't subjected to the numbing effects of the wine, all sorts of crazy ideas come in to your head! ;)
I'd like to repeat what I said earlier about no records being harmed during the making of this post, but then I also don't want to lie! Suffice to say, the only truly effective way to clean your records is a proper Record Cleaning Machine. Mind you, I am still yet to fire-up the steam cleaner...! :eyebrows:
Hah! Next you'll be suggesting ironing out the warps with an iron set on "synthetics" (one 'spot').
Next time try out your ideas on Des O'Connor, Mantovani or Dave Dee, Dozy, Beeky, Mitch and Titch. :lol:
Go on - invest £4000 in a Keith Monks RCM and charge people a £1 to clean their records. You'll soon recoup your investment. :eyebrows:
Regards
Hah! Next you'll be suggesting ironing out the warps with an iron set on "synthetics" (one 'spot').
I think Chris (TGW) has already cornered the market in record flattening failure, (from memory) - but I'm always up for new ideas!
Go on - invest £4000 in a Keith Monks RCM and charge people a £1 to clean their records. You'll soon recoup your investment. :eyebrows:
When I do splash out on a RCM, I might think about doing this, as there doesn't appear to be anyone local to me doing so from what I can find, though I've yet to check the local record shop to see if they know anyone or do the service themselves. Don't think too many people will be keen on my services so far though!
:lol::lol::lol:
It was the washing of 'Silk Degrees' on the silk wash that really did it for me:lolsign:
Alex - if you intend to repeat the experiment might I recommend the 12'' of You Spin Me Round (Like a Record) by Dead or Alive...?
Techno Commander
05-10-2010, 18:40
This (http://www.china-highend-hifi.com/prod0212121111346.htm) is £190, plus whatever the shipping from Hong Kong works out.
Dunno if that good or bad in the grand scheme of such things.
Cheers Andy - I must admit, I do struggle to understand why RCMs are so expensive given what they are actually composed of... UK supplied, about the cheapest ready built machine is the Okki Nokki JB2 around £400 - so depending on postage costs this could be a cheaper option. I would be wary without seeing some reviews though I guess.
Techno Commander
05-10-2010, 20:54
Found a review (http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=16506) for you. :)
Thanks for that Andy. Skim read it after a hard days graft and I'll go back to it tomorrow.
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