Speaker dilemma

[Floyddroid]

I have a pair of Sonus Faber Chameleon floorstanding loudspeakers which sound very good up top and in the middle. However, they are quite lacking in the lower registers and wonder if i should look at replacing them or adding a sub. I use Prima Luna Prologue Six monoblock power amps and know that they are not lacking in any way. The Sonus Faber's are sensitive too soo they sould have absolutely no bother driving them. Your thoughts please.

[Macca]

Which output tap are you using?

[CageyH]

What are the speakers sat on, what is the floor made of, how big is the room, and where are the speakers positioned?

[Floyddroid]

Which output tap are you using?

Tried both 8ohm and 4 ohm. No difference.

[Floyddroid]

What are the speakers sat on, what is the floor made of, how big is the room, and where are the speakers positioned?

On a carpeted wooden floor close to the corners. Room is 3.5 metres by 4 metres. I have had the bastards all over the room.

[Macca]

Tried both 8ohm and 4 ohm. No difference.

Is there not a 2 ohm also?

I can't find any measurements for the speakers but the quoted low bass response is 38Hz - no indication of what level that is at though. I wouldn't expect a decent size floor stander with twin 7 inch bass drivers to be bass-light in any room. I wouldn't rule out the amplifiers not being up to it if I were you.

[Floyddroid]

Is there not a 2 ohm also?

I can't find any measurements for the speakers but the quoted low bass response is 38Hz - no indication of what level that is at though. I wouldn't expect a decent size floor stander with twin 7 inch bass drivers to be bass-light in any room. I wouldn't rule out the amplifiers not being up to it if I were you.

They are more than up to it.

[struth]

maybe try different cables.. ive seen thicker wires improve base response, but also just the change .. when i moved to the thicker fisual it improved bass a fair bit

[Floyddroid]

:scratch:

[CageyH]

They are more than up to it.

This post should not exist then? ;)

Have a look at how they coupled to the floor. If they are on spikes, you could be losing a lot of bass into the wooden floor.

[Floyddroid]

Is there not a 2 ohm also?

I can't find any measurements for the speakers but the quoted low bass response is 38Hz - no indication of what level that is at though. I wouldn't expect a decent size floor stander with twin 7 inch bass drivers to be bass-light in any room. I wouldn't rule out the amplifiers not being up to it if I were you.

They do have a 2 ohm tap yes. I will of course try it on your recommendation. However, it is worth noting that they sounds the same with my very old MF A300 which is no slouch.

[Floyddroid]

This post should not exist then? ;)

Have a look at how they coupled to the floor. If they are on spikes, you could be losing a lot of bass into the wooden floor.

They are on spikes yes. I will take them out and try them without.

[CageyH]

Seems it could be the speakers - https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/904-sonus-faber-chameleon-t-loudspeakers?tmpl=component

https://www.sonusfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/reviews/2015/hi-fi%20news_Chameleon%20T%20review_112015.pdf

Although, based on the specs, I think a small sub would certainly help.

[CageyH]

They are on spikes yes. I will take them out and try them without.

Or put something solid under the spikes.

[CageyH]

The best frequency response chart I can find - https://www.sonusfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/reviews/2015/AudioReview_CHAMELEON%20T_082015.pdf

[AJSki2fly]

I have a pair of Sonus Faber Chameleon floorstanding loudspeakers which sound very good up top and in the middle. However, they are quite lacking in the lower registers and wonder if i should look at replacing them or adding a sub. I use Prima Luna Prologue Six monoblock power amps and know that they are not lacking in any way. The Sonus Faber's are sensitive too soo they sould have absolutely no bother driving them. Your thoughts please.

I would advise doing what I did to help with the carpet issue, go out and buy some 40mm solid oak kitchen worktop off cut, enough for two speaker platforms, and then to improve bass control get some go these, they will isolate the speaker from the wooden floor even more, yes I know they will be wobbly but it does work!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08GLBKRYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

or these

(https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082TVRVL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)


I have tried various combinations and prefer the Hudsons.

Also I would that you try this out to the letter, https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html


https://youtu.be/UOI8py0DAC8

Steve have a read of my thread it may help https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?71285-Experiments-in-Isolation&highlight=isolation

I now have deep full controlled bass with a much better detailed soundstage. You can always experiment with different types of rubbers isolators like I did to see which one you prefer best. Jerry who used to be on here along with a few others has tried what I suggested and were quite shocked at the improvement.

Worth a try and not expensive, before you go replacing speakers.

[Macca]

They do have a 2 ohm tap yes. I will of course try it on your recommendation. However, it is worth noting that they sounds the same with my very old MF A300 which is no slouch.

Sounds like it could be the speakers then. But nothing to lose by trying the 2 ohm.

[Floyddroid]

Yes it would appear that the speakers are shite.

[CageyH]

For bass, yes.

[Pigmy Pony]

if you like everything else the speakers do, then it may well be worth trying a sub. Or two!

[Firebottle]

That bass response looks shite, even ESL57's don't roll off that early.
Get a sub.

[fatmarley]

The best frequency response chart I can find - https://www.sonusfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/reviews/2015/AudioReview_CHAMELEON%20T_082015.pdf

It looks like the frequency response shown in Figure 3 doesn't include the port output, and the impedance measurement isn't showing where the port tuning frequency is either. At least it's not very clear.

Shortening the port would raise the port tuning frequency and would most likely sound better, but obviously I wouldn't suggest cutting the ports on an expensive pair of speakers. If they are loose, it could be worth removing them to see what that sounds like.

[Macca]

Seems it could be the speakers - https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/904-sonus-faber-chameleon-t-loudspeakers?tmpl=component

https://www.sonusfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/reviews/2015/hi-fi%20news_Chameleon%20T%20review_112015.pdf

Although, based on the specs, I think a small sub would certainly help.

The Hi-fi News reviewer praises the bass response '...presenting deep bass notes with convincing authority, devoid of blur or smearing.'

[CageyH]

The Hi-fi News reviewer praises the bass response '...presenting deep bass notes with convincing authority, devoid of blur or smearing.'

He does indeed, but look at the bass response in the frequency chart....

[fatmarley]

Just had a thought (doesn't happen very often). Would be well worth making sure that no stuffing has fallen down and blocked the port.

[Macca]

He does indeed, but look at the bass response in the frequency chart....

yes, the in-room (I assume that is what 'riposta in ambiente' means) rolls off pretty steep after 80 Hz. Hard to marry the reviewer's comments with that. It's a bass-light speaker - for a floorstander anyway.

[walpurgis]

I don't know the items, but seems to me both amp and speakers look good. Speaker positioning has been experimented with, so alternatively, could the issue be room acoustics?

[Floyddroid]

Looks like i have made yet another expensive mistake. fooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!!!

[Filterlab]

Add a sealed, active subwoofer. Job done.

[Mikeandvan]

My ANJs are similar, first you think wow I'm hearing stuff I haven;t heard before, then you realise its because bass response is reduced that gives the other freqs a chance to shine.

[Jac Hawk]

I'm not selling the Kralks Steve, before you ask.....................

[AJSki2fly]

It is rather odd see https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/904-sonus-faber-chameleon-t-loudspeakers They report bass as below.

"Another way the Chameleon Ts distinguished themselves was in their reproduction of deep bass. With “m.A.A.d. city,” from Kendrick Lamar’s good kid, m.A.A.d. city (CD, Aftermath B001753602), the Revels produced tighter, punchier, more impactful bass. Through the Sonus Fabers, this track’s bass was a touch fatter and fuller than the F206es’ more disciplined delivery. In this case, I thought the Chameleon Ts better suited this gritty hip-hop track."

Steve, just in case, have checked you haven't accidentally wired them up out of phase? I know that the low end freq rolls off in the freq sweep someone found but Sonus say they go down to 40hz, I'd be surprised if the are that bad as shown. I would also try to isolate them from the wooden floor, using some cheap rubber pads, rather than using the spikes to see if they improve.

[Gazjam]

What speaker cable are you using Steve?

I agree with Grant, worth trying different cables.
Sounds daft, but are they definitely wired in phase at the moment?

Is it a case of the bass is obviously “off” (sucked out, phasey sounding) or just a preference for deeper sub bass?
Speakers or ears ya think?

[Ubi]

"Another strong indicator that you are moving into a true hi-fi speaker is that the Chameleon’s are rated at 4 ohms. Sonus Faber is not your average consumer-grade speaker, and this is a vitally important spec to be aware of. If your amplifier or receiver is not rated to output current that will adequately drive a 4 ohm speaker, you will need to upgrade. In order to fully enjoy these speakers, and not permanently damage your amplifier, the demand from the speaker needs to be satisfied"

4 ohm speakers need a lot of current to deliver Powerful bass from my experiences.

Then I find this:

"With a nominal impedance of 4 Ohms, pairing Chameleon T with my AVM Ovation MA8.2 mono reference amplifiers with a potential 1100 watts on tap may be a little overkill, but hey, I like a little ‘head-room’.

London Grammar’s*“Wasting My Younger Years”*is a more recent favourite track of mine; breathtaking and emotive, the build-up draws the listener in. When pushed, this track does find the limitations of the woofers and small cabinet, lacking a little authority in the bass and bottom end. Being fair though, that’s in comparison to the typically larger footprint speakers with larger diameter woofers I’m used to in my room"

So seems this huge amplifier can't drag the bass from them because it doesn't exist.

Then this:

"Marketing material suggests a frequency response of 38Hz – 25kHz"

I am not liking that spec and with it having front ports, you will not really benefit from pushing them closer to the rear wall.

Sell them and move on.

[Floyddroid]

I'm not selling the Kralks Steve, before you ask.....................

Ha ha

[Floyddroid]

The Hi-fi News reviewer praises the bass response '...presenting deep bass notes with convincing authority, devoid of blur or smearing.'

He was obviously pissed at the time he reviewed them.

[Jac Hawk]

Ever thought of a pair of Tannoy Cheviots, a mate of mine has a pair running on 15 wpc valve monos and they sound awsome with plenty of bass

[Floyddroid]

"Another strong indicator that you are moving into a true hi-fi speaker is that the Chameleon’s are rated at 4 ohms. Sonus Faber is not your average consumer-grade speaker, and this is a vitally important spec to be aware of. If your amplifier or receiver is not rated to output current that will adequately drive a 4 ohm speaker, you will need to upgrade. In order to fully enjoy these speakers, and not permanently damage your amplifier, the demand from the speaker needs to be satisfied"

4 ohm speakers need a lot of current to deliver Powerful bass from my experiences.

Then I find this:

"With a nominal impedance of 4 Ohms, pairing Chameleon T with my AVM Ovation MA8.2 mono reference amplifiers with a potential 1100 watts on tap may be a little overkill, but hey, I like a little ‘head-room’.

London Grammar’s*“Wasting My Younger Years”*is a more recent favourite track of mine; breathtaking and emotive, the build-up draws the listener in. When pushed, this track does find the limitations of the woofers and small cabinet, lacking a little authority in the bass and bottom end. Being fair though, that’s in comparison to the typically larger footprint speakers with larger diameter woofers I’m used to in my room"

So seems this huge amplifier can't drag the bass from them because it doesn't exist.

Then this:

"Marketing material suggests a frequency response of 38Hz – 25kHz"

I am not liking that spec and with it having front ports, you will not really benefit from pushing them closer to the rear wall.

Sell them and move on.

I find myself in agreement. I have them on the 4Ohm tap and there is no difference.

[Macca]

He was obviously pissed at the time he reviewed them.

I think he was mistaking a recording with a lot of mid-bass for a recording with a lot of deep bass. Common enough mistake on forums but it's a rookie error you wouldn't expect from a 'proper' reviewer.