View Full Version : Upgrading my Technics 1200G
I'm looking to upgrade some of the parts of my Technics 1200G turntable.
The mat: is Airborne cork and rubber any good?
Record weight: any recomendations of a decent weight that would be a good match for a Technics TT please?
Interconnects: I'm looking at a 1m length Graham Slee CuSat50 to connect TT with phono stage (Graham Slee Reflex X) and 1.5m length of the same to connect phono stage with preamp.
I have a KabUSA tonearm fluid damper on the way as well.
I will address the headshell at some point as well but need to be careful with that because I'm conscious that it will need careful matching in order not to mess with tonearm mass, etc.
Currently using the original headshell and an AT VM95ML cartridge. Amp and preamp are Naim.
Biggest upgrade possible will probably be the cartridge. The VM95ML is ok, but the cartridges higher up the range are better.
Mikeandvan
21-11-2020, 19:15
People are gonna say upgrade the arm, I have the 1200GR, which came with a Jelco 750 tonearm base fitted, so I just slotted in my 750 cos I'm a bit lazy. I have the original arm, which is unused, which I've yet to fit, I hope it sounds as good as the 750 so I can flog the 750! I wonder how much effect the Kab fluid damper will have? Got my 1200GR up and running now, after 2 months with no TT shelf, its a wonderful little machine.
People are gonna say upgrade the arm, I have the 1200GR, which came with a Jelco 750 tonearm base fitted, so I just slotted in my 750 cos I'm a bit lazy. I have the original arm, which is unused, which I've yet to fit, I hope it sounds as good as the 750 so I can flog the 750! I wonder how much effect the Kab fluid damper will have? Got my 1200GR up and running now, after 2 months with no TT shelf, its a wonderful little machine.
Changing the arm is an absolute No No. Some people enjoy chaning everything they can on their TT but that is not my cup of tea. Otherwise I would have never bought a Technics but would have gone for a Linn instead. The arm and base on the 1200G are a lot better and I have no complaints. I'm prepared to change some of the smaller accessories such as the ones mentioned above but will not touch the main components.
The KAB fluid damper has had very good reviews on various sites and frums and allows for use of high compliance cartridges so it comes highly receommended apparently.
You have a superb deck there which is capable of handling some seriously good MC carts.
Surely that should be the first upgrade to cure the rest. Not sure of your budget but how about moving up to an AT33PTG11, or if funds permit an ART- 9.
That should give you many hours of pleasure.
chris@panteg
22-11-2020, 16:30
I really liked the Oyaide B10 mat, I would recommend a better headshell and cartridge like the above post.
Definitely do not touch the arm, it's a magnesium arm and a lot of work went into it, you don't really need to do much with the deck.
I was leaving the headshell and cartridge topics to the side because I am aware they are rather complex. It is quite difficult to find adecent headshell that is of similar weight to the Technics one. They are generally heavier and that starts to mess with tonearm mass, etc.
As for MC cartridges, that would involve a lot of cost. First I would have to change my phono stage to a MC suitable one. And second the cost of the MC cartridges is rather prohibitive sadly. There are some cartridges like Hana EL and HL and some others that are below the £500 however I am not sure how they compare against MM cartridges of similar price.
I was leaving the headshell and cartridge topics to the side because I am aware they are rather complex. It is quite difficult to find adecent headshell that is of similar weight to the Technics one. They are generally heavier and that starts to mess with tonearm mass, etc.
As for MC cartridges, that would involve a lot of cost. First I would have to change my phono stage to a MC suitable one. And second the cost of the MC cartridges is rather prohibitive sadly. There are some cartridges like Hana EL and HL and some others that are below the £500 however I am not sure how they compare against MM cartridges of similar price.
Fair enough. I was gonna say the AT MG10 headshell. Only 10g mass and a lift in sound from the stock headshell. Also saves messing about with alignment. If MC is too expensive and requiring a new Phono stage then in the MM camp i would go for the AT VM 540ML or 760SLC but not compared them against the VM 95ML to see how much of an improvement in sound it would be ?
IME with Technics decks, Mats are a personal preference. I tried various on mine - from cork to leather to a Ringmat - and found either an Achromat or Herbies was best for my ears. YMMV as they say. I'd not buy a weight - it wasn't designed with one in mind, and I think the benefits of such can be spurious at best. I'd look at the cartridge for sure - bung a better stylus on there and live with that for a while until you can go MC (if you even want to!)... HOMC is an option too. The KAB damper will well and truly open up that world to you.
Watching this thread with interest. I'm 99% happy with my 1200G as it is, but as I'd mentioned in my thread yesterday, I'm noticing quite a lot of sibilance. My last tonearm was a bearingless Well Tempered so my suspicions around the sibilance lie with the arm bearings and a lot of reading around forms a general consensus that the arm is indeed the weak point of the turntable, so an arm change may end up happening, but thanks to Kevin's recommendation yesterday I've ordered a Funk Firm Houdini which I am hoping might address this rather niggly shortcoming. £300 seems like quite a lot of money for such a small device, but if it cures the sibilance I'll be 100% happy and reading around on the other benefits it can bring, it may well be another step up. It's also a much less obtrusive change than an arm replacement, so if it works I'll be happy to stop there..
In terms of mats, I've replaced the original heavy rubber one for an Achromat 5mm and that has worked very nicely. I didn't much like what the Achromat did on my Well Tempered giving everything something of an etched sound, but on the SL1200G it's very natural sounding.
I've also fitted my Funk Firm Boing feet to the 1200G which I was on the verge of selling on, but they're a definite improvement on the stock feet. It's gained quite a bit more insight into everything, and that's with the deck already on a solid wall shelf.
Watching this thread with interest. I'm 99% happy with my 1200G as it is, but as I'd mentioned in my thread yesterday, I'm noticing quite a lot of sibilance. a general consensus that the arm is indeed the weak point of the turntable, so an arm change may end up happening,
I am not familiar with sibilance. Is sibilance the one where the high notes such as cymbals sound as if there is a fine crackling/buzzing noise coming from the tweeters? Particularly in rock songs with choir singers in the background?
In regards to the arm, I would ignore what people say. It is a high quality and decent magnesium alloy arm. Changing the arm pretty much gets rid of the whole Technics sound. Might as well have gone for a Linn then. :)
I am not familiar with sibilance. Is sibilance the one where the high notes such as cymbals sound as if there is a fine crackling/buzzing noise coming from the tweeters? Particularly in rock songs with choir singers in the background?
In regards to the arm, I would ignore what people say. It is a high quality and decent magnesium alloy arm. Changing the arm pretty much gets rid of the whole Technics sound. Might as well have gone for a Linn then. :)
The problems with sibilance for me is where you have vocal recordings where there are sharp or loud 'S' sounds. It's notoriously difficult to master LPs with loud 'S'es because it's the hardest thing for a cartridge/arm to track, so a lot of the time, the mastering engineer will 'de-ess' the vinyl master, i.e. reduce the level or perform some filtering on the S sound to make it easier to track. It can be particularly bad at the end of a side. There are some albums where there's just no getting away from it because the mastering is not great, but when it starts happening on stuff you're familiar with where the S sounds were clean before, you know something isn't quite right with the setup. What happens is that what should be a smooth sounding natural S sound becomes spitty and distorted, making the singer sound like they have a lisp. It can be extremely distracting - to me anyway.
The Technics sound for me, and the whole reason for me moving in that direction is the solidity and pitch stability that direct drive brings. I don't think I could ever go back to a belt driven deck now.
Ah I see. I dont have any issues like the ones you describe but at times I do get the high notes sound quite sharp and as if there is a high pitch buzzing sound. The notes become almost a white noise and it is quite distracting at times. I' m not sure if I have done something wrong with alignign the cartirdge or whether my aging speakers are struggling to cope.
chris@panteg
26-11-2020, 10:14
I doubt it's the arm, just need a better cartridge! I would recommend a cart with a superior tip.
Such as a line contact or shibata.
I currently have a Hana SL on my Voyd and there are no issues with sibilance with superb tracking.
I doubt it's the arm, just need a better cartridge! I would recommend a cart with a superior tip.
Such as a line contact or shibata.
I currently have a Hana SL on my Voyd and there are no issues with sibilance with superb tracking.
TBH, the topic of "better cartridge" is turning into a nightmare for me. The more people I ask the more different opinions I get. Some say shibata is better than microline and others say the oppsite. Many also say that the AT95ML is hard to beat in the sub £600 category. Others say that the 95ML is a basic cartidge.
The more i dig the more I get confused. Christ knows.
I intend to stick with MM though. The MC is not for me. Way too expensive for what it is and the yield is not proportionate to the price unless you spend over £1k.
Watching this thread with interest. I'm 99% happy with my 1200G as it is, but as I'd mentioned in my thread yesterday, I'm noticing quite a lot of sibilance. My last tonearm was a bearingless Well Tempered so my suspicions around the sibilance lie with the arm bearings and a lot of reading around forms a general consensus that the arm is indeed the weak point of the turntable, so an arm change may end up happening, but thanks to Kevin's recommendation yesterday I've ordered a Funk Firm Houdini which I am hoping might address this rather niggly shortcoming. £300 seems like quite a lot of money for such a small device, but if it cures the sibilance I'll be 100% happy and reading around on the other benefits it can bring, it may well be another step up. It's also a much less obtrusive change than an arm replacement, so if it works I'll be happy to stop there..
In terms of mats, I've replaced the original heavy rubber one for an Achromat 5mm and that has worked very nicely. I didn't much like what the Achromat did on my Well Tempered giving everything something of an etched sound, but on the SL1200G it's very natural sounding.
I've also fitted my Funk Firm Boing feet to the 1200G which I was on the verge of selling on, but they're a definite improvement on the stock feet. It's gained quite a bit more insight into everything, and that's with the deck already on a solid wall shelf.
I really don’t think the sibilance is down to the arm especially as the stock arm is pretty good. I’d be very surprised if you had any problems if you fitted an AT with microline stylus (e.g AT 440 mla or AT 150 mlx or their modern equivalents). Another plus is that they are not difficult to set up unlike the Ortofon 2M Black which never worked for me although I tried it in three different arms. Once I noticed that I hadn’t snapped the stylus assembly of an AT 440 properly into the cartridge body so the VTA was quite a bit out but it still tracked fantastically without any sibilance. However a microline stylus will pick up a lot of dirt or dust because its profile reaches the bottom of the groove that elliptical profiles often don’t. Also I believe that because many elliptical styli don’t reach right down into the groove they wobble a little and this causes sibilance on difficult passages. But of course please correct me if I’m wrong.
Also I believe that because many elliptical styli don’t reach right down into the groove they wobble a little and this causes sibilance on difficult passages. But of course please correct me if I’m wrong.
I think you may well have hit the nail right on the head there Alan. My Soundsmith is an Elliptical profile and I have to admit that until I fitted the Funk Houdini last week that I hadn't paid a huge amount of attention to getting it aligned to the nth degree, so there were a few unbearably sibilant records. Things improved with the Houdini which I at first put down to the Houdini itself (although that has made many worthwhile improvements in other areas) but it just seems that my alignment was a bit more accurate in re-fitting the cartridge. I've since spent a fair bit more time getting it aligned to what Technics/Soundsmith recommend and sibilance I would say is now minimal, but not eradicated so it does seem that I'm at the limit of what the stylus profile will track, but on the majority of records it sounds awesome so I'm not itching to change it right now, but when I do, it will most certainly be for something with a fine line stylus.
TBH, the topic of "better cartridge" is turning into a nightmare for me. The more people I ask the more different opinions I get. Some say shibata is better than microline and others say the oppsite. Many also say that the AT95ML is hard to beat in the sub £600 category. Others say that the 95ML is a basic cartidge.
The more i dig the more I get confused. Christ knows.
I intend to stick with MM though. The MC is not for me. Way too expensive for what it is and the yield is not proportionate to the price unless you spend over £1k.
I agree that cart matching can be a bit of a nightmare. But I disagree about your MC statement. Something like an AAT33PTG III would match your TT very well, tracks like a demon (very little sibilance or inner groove distortion, provided its set up correctly) and will cost something like £400.
keiron99
25-01-2021, 11:30
For those who bought a KAB damper, how are you getting on with it? What improvements does it bring on an SL1200G?
kirstysdad
25-01-2021, 11:39
I agree that cart matching can be a bit of a nightmare. But I disagree about your MC statement. Something like an AAT33PTG III would match your TT very well, tracks like a demon (very little sibilance or inner groove distortion, provided its set up correctly) and will cost something like £400.
The problem then is you need an even better phono stage for MC than for MM, in my experience. So more expense...
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