Experiments in Isolation

[AJSki2fly]

I have been listening to the youtube video by the "British Audiophile" recently, they are quite interesting and he talks quite a bit of common sense, he says that he was in the audio industry, but I am not sure in what capacity. Any way this video is interesting.


https://youtu.be/Dtb88_hbCFQ.

A very good audiophile friend had watched it and isolated his amplifier and phono stage, and Cd player, and speaker with what "British Audiophile" recommends and he told me that the overall improvement was a no brainer, especially for about £60 outlay. I have been looking at some quite expensive isolation products but the cost has been putting me off.

I had already isolated my amps, so I thought I would have a play with my speaker isolation.

I have had the speakers stood on spikes directly on the carpet with the spikes going into the floor. The floor is concrete block and beam construction, with foam insulation on top and then a layer of chip board, so effectively a stiff suspended floor. I found that as the Wilson Benesch Vectors have downward firing ports that placing them on the Oak platforms improved the bass, detail and depth.

Prior to the changes below they were stood on the Oak platforms on their spikes onto aluminium spike protectors.

1st Test - This is with some simple rubber speaker floor protectors that are designed to take spikes. This was an improvement, there was definitely more bass, but not as defined as I had hoped for, so room for improvement maybe.

https://i.postimg.cc/0jVrfM5Y/IMG-0170.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JHB17hk0)

2nd Test - I removed the speaker spikes and placed each speaker on 4 isolation pads, I already had two of them spare, https://www.amazon.com/Diversitech-MP4-V-Anti-Vibration-Pack/dp/B00BVEMLR4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=isolation+pads&sr=8-4 so I cut each in to quarters.

The result here was quite a big improvement IMO, bass was more defined, control and had better extension and clarity. This was particularly clear when listening to Paul Simons - 'Boy in a Bubble' from Graceland the bass drum being very impressing with clear extension and decay not anywhere near as evident as before. Ravi Shankar - track 1 off Portrait of Genius has some excellent Indian Tabla drumming and the hollowness of these became more evident with better decay.

I alos noticed with both these tracks and others that general instrument separation and clarity had improved, so not just the low end frequencies have improved but the focus of mid and upper range as well.

So if you fancy a little experiment and see if you can improve what you experience for not much cost I would recommend you have a play.

https://i.postimg.cc/J4hshqKP/IMG-0171.jpg (https://postimg.cc/s1tj65kh)

[willbewill]

I tried the ferrites on speaker cables quite recently, it certainly made a difference... For the worse, vocals became quote recessed.

[Stratmangler]

I tried the ferrites on speaker cables quite recently

Why?

[Macca]

I use the washing machine feet he mentions in the video for the TV system speakers as they stand on a cabinet. Very effective and were literally just a couple of quid from Lidl.

Will be getting some more for under the subwoofer when I get around to deploying it.

[Macca]

Tried the ferrites he mentions too. I got a big bag full and put them on every mains cable in the house that didn't have one already. Could not detect any difference. I guess I did not have a problem to fix. But the principle is sound so YMMV. It's cheap to try.

[Stratmangler]

Tried the ferrites he mentions too. I got a big bag full and put them on every mains cable in the house that didn't have one already. Could not detect any difference. I guess I did not have a problem to fix. But the principle is sound so YMMV. It's cheap to try.

I have them on power cables too, and they're staying where they are.

[willbewill]

Why?

Coz I watched the video and had some spare.

[Stratmangler]

Coz I watched the video and had some spare.

That's nearly 20 minutes you'll not get back :eyebrows:

[willbewill]

That's nearly 20 minutes you'll not get back :eyebrows:

Was more like an hour... Doh! Doh!:brickwall::brickwall:

[Marco]

Just think, a sammy-shank would've taken you 5 mins instead, and given you rather more pleasure!:D

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

I've had ferrites on interconnects for years and won't be removing them any time soon although I guess if I did I'd then know their effects (or not).

[AJSki2fly]

An update to my Exploration into Isolation, in this case speaker decoupling.

So I took the plunge and purchased these through Amazon. https://www.hudsonhifi.com/collections/sound-isolation/products/hudson-hi-fi-bigfoot-silicone-isolation-feet

they also do smaller blocks.

or https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08GLBKRYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08GLBKRYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

It certainly has changed the sound from the previous more stiffer blocks. Initially I though it sounded a little odd, and then I realised it was greater separation and definition, meaning that the recording had opened up. There seems to be a wider sound stage and a bigger 3D effect, the drums are easy to distinguish and definitely have some great extension, I can also pick out the bass easier. That is listening to Los Endos on Genesis “A Trick of the Tail”, big drums and bass.

Just put on the Ravi Shankar 'Portrait of Genius', I have not heard the tablas sound so realistic, they have much tighter attack as they are hit and the hollowness of the drums is more accurate, and there is a clear decay to them. At the same time the other instruments are better defined, sound as if they are in the room, wonderful.

Probably the best £50 I have spent on my Hifi. It does seem counter-intuitive to have slightly wobbly speakers, I have spent 40+ years using rigid spikes being told this was the way, as far as my ears are concerned complete and utter tosh.

Doing this in IMO is a no brainer.

https://i.postimg.cc/RhqX1KGz/3626-CFE1-4-D87-41-F8-A4-CD-7054-CDD89475.jpg (https://postimg.cc/y34msJwf)

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRwwyV8c/406-A946-D-73-C9-45-BA-A7-B5-AA0542630-CF8.jpg (https://postimg.cc/1nNGk0Yn)

[AJSki2fly]

Hi

I have done some more experimentation with thesewww.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082TVRVL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, my friend has them under his Tannoy Kensington GRs.

IMO opinion a very similar result to the wobbly rocket thruster, but with a little stronger bass, but not necessarily better. I also used these with sorbothane semisheres placed between them and the speaker bottom, this result in more wobble but less than with the rockets. The result being sonically it moved closer to with just the rockets.

I listened to side 1 of Ravi Shankar - Portrait of Genius all morning and kept swapping them around. My conclusion was that as my ears adjusted the rubber rockets gave a more accurate rendition, even though initially it seemed like a bass drop. This was highlighted to me when I listened to Emerson, Lake and Palmer - Trilogy on several tracks I could separate the bass from the organ with the rockets, but with the others it became fuzzy and virtually possible to separate them aurally.

So my conclusion is that you need time for your ears and brain to adjust to it. I remember something similar when using narrow band eq to lower 1st, and 2nd order reverberation for my room at 65hz and 130hz using Audirvana software, initially it made things sound a bit flattened in the low end, but improved with time. The chap who recommended doing this said you neede to allow 5-7 days of listening for you hearing/brain to adjust, basically because it was pre-conditioned to over-emphasised bass.

[AJSki2fly]

Carrying on from where I left off, and because of a couple of findings by others on another site, I decided to re-visit my speakers and isolation.

First I spent quite a bit of time re-reading about speaker set up, even though I have been through various set ups paradigms, and I decided to follow the WASP advice, https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html , it does not apply just to their speakers.


https://youtu.be/UOI8py0DAC8

So what I found out was that my speaker position was not quite as optimised as it could be, according to WASP, I needed them slightly further forward 3" and with the restriction of my room moved them closer together by about 4" and centralised them in the room(only 2" out). This brought them just inside the boxes I had found using the WASP procedure. The biggest change I adopted was to increase the toe in angle quite substantially. I also took quite some time investigating the optimum listening position. Usually I sit 3.4m from the speakers, they are now 2.08m apart, so theory states the optimum sitting position is 1.15 to 1.25 times the distance apart from the speakers. I have settled for 2.08*1.25 which is 2.6m. I mainly do serious listening when Sue is out or at work so where sit in my Ekoness chair then does not really matter.

I spent quite some time on toe in alignment, what I found here is exactly as the article says, careful alignment will reward you with a stunning soundstage with great depth and detail across all frequencies. So all this effort resulted into a definite improvement as far as my system sounded. I would recommend any of you who have not paid this level of attention to your set up that you do so, take your time and you will certainly maximise your listening experience.

Having done the above I decided to revisit my assessment of the wobbly rockets(Hudson HiFi Bigfoot isolators), washing machine isolators, and speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection.
isolators.

Starting with the speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection, I noticed some loss in bass and even mid range definition, it is difficult to describe but things became a bit blurred.

Next was the washing machine isolators, this was an improvement in definition, but the bass IMO was hardly changed compared to when using speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection.

So finally I put the Hudson Bigfoots back and listened to several demanding tracks as before, from Ravi Shankar - Portrait of Genius, Rage Against the Machine - 1st Album, and Eva Cassidy - Nightbird. What is very clear from the Rage Against the Machine tracks is just how clearer and more controlled the thunderous bass now is, it actually sound like a real bass guitar pumping out in the room which I can easily operate form the drumming and guitar. I have played in several amateur bands and I would say that this is realistic to how a band should sound out of a system I have got. The Ravi Shankar is as if the band is sitting in the room, and I can clearly hear nuances on the tablas, sitar and flute. Eva Cassidy "Fields of Gold' carries a sense of purity, her acoustic guitar being very natural to listen to, the electric guitar and acoustic are better separated and their harmonic interplay is easier to hear. The other track, a bluesy number, 'Baby I Love You' is much improved, previously there had been a tendency for the bass lines to muddy the experience, now I can clearly hear all the instruments, the bass is clear and deep but not dominant.

In initially using the Hudsons I had experienced what Jerry described on some tracks as a loss of depth in the bass, however I now feel that I have overcome this by carefully addressing speaker set up along with listening position.

I hope some of you may find this useful.

[brian2957]

I ordered the smaller Hudson supports for my small standmounts . I placed them between my stands and speakers with excellent results , better bass and separation . Well worth the money . thanks for posting Adrian :)

[doodoos]

Bought myself some Isoacoustics isopucks to stick under a cd transport. £75 for eight. I’ve used 3 and haven’t noticed much difference for better or worse.

[Martinblueboy]

This has been a really interesting read. My speakers are on a suspended floor which is above a large void (garage). The flooring is Karndean and there are rugs and soft furnishings aplenty in the room. I thought I'd grab some of those Hudson HiFi isolation feet to see if I'd hear any appreciable difference in the sound. I'm always rather wary of confirmation bias, but to me there is a clear and noticeable difference to the sound. Bass sounds tighter, more punchy and clearly defined. The speakers sound faster and there's a more defined soundstage - more depth horizontally and more headroom vertically too. Instruments seem to be more clearly defined within the soundstage too. I've been really pleasantly surprised about how much difference this seems to have made. I've carried on playing music for a couple of weeks after ordering these, just to see whether I still felt that sound had changed or whether there was an element of confirmation bias and I was just hearing what I wanted to, but I still hear the same differences.

I've been really pleased with my purchases Adrian. I feel that it's been £50 well spent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Improving the speaker isolation from my suspended flooring does seem to have made a change for the better. A secondary benefit is that it is far easier to reposition my speakers now without the worry of the spikes carving nice marks into the Karndean - albeit that the spikes were sat in protective cups!

[AJSki2fly]

This has been a really interesting read. My speakers are on a suspended floor which is above a large void (garage). The flooring is Karndean and there are rugs and soft furnishings aplenty in the room. I thought I'd grab some of those Hudson HiFi isolation feet to see if I'd hear any appreciable difference in the sound. I'm always rather wary of confirmation bias, but to me there is a clear and noticeable difference to the sound. Bass sounds tighter, more punchy and clearly defined. The speakers sound faster and there's a more defined soundstage - more depth horizontally and more headroom vertically too. Instruments seem to be more clearly defined within the soundstage too. I've been really pleasantly surprised about how much difference this seems to have made. I've carried on playing music for a couple of weeks after ordering these, just to see whether I still felt that sound had changed or whether there was an element of confirmation bias and I was just hearing what I wanted to, but I still hear the same differences.

I've been really pleased with my purchases Adrian. I feel that it's been £50 well spent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Improving the speaker isolation from my suspended flooring does seem to have made a change for the better. A secondary benefit is that it is far easier to reposition my speakers now without the worry of the spikes carving nice marks into the Karndean - albeit that the spikes were sat in protective cups!

Hi Martin

Well I am really pleased it has helped you and improved your listening experience, and a few others. Like you I was somewhat sceptical and have put the spikes back 3 times now to hear the difference, and each time I have returned to the Hudson’s after a couple of hours, the improvements with them are obvious to me.

Any one who does not mind a £50 punt should have a go, it could be well worth doing!

Cheers

Adrian

[Yomanze]

Spikes (coupling) and suspended wooden floors, just say no. :D

I concur that decoupling my speakers from the floor offered the best value for money upgrade I have had. Plus, my neighbours no longer complain.

[Covenant]

I just use ordinary plastic glides under my heavy floorstanding speakers but they are on a concrete floor with laminate flooring over. The bass seems ok, very occasionally a little boom but not a big problem. Would some of these specialist products be worthwhile?

[Stratmangler]

I just use ordinary plastic glides under my heavy floorstanding speakers but they are on a concrete floor with laminate flooring over. The bass seems ok, very occasionally a little boom but not a big problem. Would some of these specialist products be worthwhile?

Maybe try some of these between your glides and speakers.
My speakers have cabinet feet on them, and these improved the already very decent sound to another level https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Anti-vibration-Feet-For-Washing-Machines-Shock-Absorbers-Pack-Of-8/311697232362?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[Covenant]

Thanks Chris,
I like the idea of using decidedly non- foo washing machine feet! i will probably go for them.

[Stratmangler]

Thanks Chris,
I like the idea of using decidedly non- foo washing machine feet! i will probably go for them.

:thumbsup:

[Covenant]

I bought the washing machine feet and think they were a great purchase for £7.50! They fit over the glides I have underneath my speakers perfectly.
Dont think it has altered the bass boom-its a very occasional problem and needs room treatment I think. It has improved mid- range though. Last night I played a track I know well-"wait for her" the only track I like from Is this the life we really want. Roger Waters voice gets a bit drowned in the music but fitting the feet makes his voice clearer. Dont tell the manufacturer, they will stick the feet in a posh bag and quadruple the price.