Looking for some guidance please [Archive]

bbones

08-10-2020, 00:56

Further to my hello in the welcome session, after almost 30 years of looking at my record collection without having a system to play it on....I'm looking to take the plunge and would very much appreciate any guidance/suggestions you care to give.

In Canadian Funds I have allocated $8-10,000.

I am by no means an expert in the audiophile field......quite the opposite really....so I've relied pretty heavily on reviews/best ratings/opinions of others on the assumption they know a heck of a lot more than I do....and then used that to do my own further DD.

Initially I was only thinking about a system so that I could play my albums again.

I was leaning towards:

Rega Planar 3/Elys 2 turntable
Rega Elex-R amp,
and either Dali Oberon 5 or Q Acoustics 3050i floor standers

I have had some difficulty identifying Canadian locations to purchase the above (specifically Q Acoustics)

I have a few hundred CD's and over 6 terabytes of music (Flac) on external hard drives so now I`m thinking that while I still really want a nice system for my albums (definitely vinyl will always be my preference)......having access especially to my digital catalogue and I guess access to high quality music streaming services would make sense too.

So I am now looking to buy a system that would serve both.

Rega Planar 3/Elys 2 turntable
Cambridge Audio CXA81 Amp ( if I understand correctly this would help serve the digital aspect, but I believe I would need a pre amp for the phono)
Rega Fono MM MK3
and again...and either Dali Oberon 5 or Q Acoustics 3050i floor standers

If my math is correct.....this would be a few grand under max budget. Doesn`t address a CD player and I honestly have no clue just what I need to be able to play Flac files from a hard drive or bluetooth or use a streaming service.

Speaker wise I picked floor standers mainly because I always thought they look impressive....versus stand mounts

There were lots of comments in my reading about the importance of pairing your equipment appropriately. Not exactly sure how you go about doing that.....so choices made above reflected opinions of others that felt components worked well together.

As mentioned, I have quite a variety of musical tastes. For the most part all I really want is a system that sounds good, that I can listen to probably more often at low to medium volumes.....but I can kick in to higher gear once in a while. (I have a tendency to crank Neil Young)

In terms of my location... My house is a 4 level split - quite open concept with 14 foot ceilings in the open areas. (both main floor and basement) Thinking of setting it up on the main floor but I just finished renovating the basement and installed shelving for my albums, all my old rock concert posters etc.....so it would look very cool down there too.

Hmmmmm....maybe I need to buy two systems LOL.

Anyway, I would sure appreciate some input here. Am I on a right track....way off base.....have no idea what I`m talking about........should just stick to my 8 track player.

Much appreciated Steven

Light Dependant Resistor

08-10-2020, 08:08

Hi Steven
I recall back in my initial hifi buying days... way back when. I soon moved from a nice Pioneer SX650 receiver powering AR16's to a Quad 405 power amp, and have stuck with
separate preamp - power amp implementation ever since. Now very similarly some 45 years later I use 2x Quad 306 power amps as these give plenty of power into the
variety of speakers i use. Presently enjoying a very nice pair of AR2ax

So I would suggest looking at a power amp that gives you flexibility to use passive preamps, accordingly you will need the sensitivity to be ideally 1v or less with
the power amp you choose to use.

There are many dedicated phono stages that will do a fine job of providing RIAA equalization. Rega for instance make phono stages too: http://www.rega.co.uk/phono-stages.html

Hope that helps

Pharos

08-10-2020, 08:39

My immediate response is to recommend buying second hand equipment.

I've only rarely bought new, things like tape recorders which are maintenance heavy, cartridges, and one FM tuner because I could not get it second hand, and this is in 50 years+.

You will be in an effective position to be higher up the ranges, which allows consideration of better models, and most people really take care of their equipment.

anthonyTD

08-10-2020, 08:41

:)
My immediate response is to recommend buying second hand equipment.

You will be in an effective position to be higher up the ranges, which allows consideration of better models, and most people really take care of their equipment.

walpurgis

08-10-2020, 08:56

As you are in Canada, you could look at the Totem range of speakers, they will be well supported there. Also, see Pro-Ject turntables, who compete directly with Rega.

fatmarley

08-10-2020, 09:17

Small speakers sound small and usually sound flat at low volumes. Fashion is the only reason for small speakers (unless you listen near-field obviously).

I don't know what your budget will buy you in Canada, but the Quad 306 is a good suggestion (that's my daily amp). I think they are amazing value for money and work great with a cheap passive preamp. They are incredibly easy to service too.

For new speakers I'd be looking at Tannoy Legacy series, Klipsch Heritage series and Quad electrostatics. I don't know about the new Tannoy Legacy series, but I do know that Klipsch and Quad statics are known for sounding great at low volumes (watch the YouTube reviews). Old Tannoys are know for sounding great at low volume too (Gold, HPD and DMT).

Old Tannoy Golds, HPD and DMT can be good, but Golds and HPD can need work to bring them back up to spec. Big, old JBLs would also be on my shortlist (not sure about the low volume thing on these though). I would personally avoid all these modern, small, multi-driver speakers.

Macca

08-10-2020, 11:18

With a budget of approx £5800 GBP I'd be setting my sights a bit higher than the kit you have listed.

If vinyl is going to be your main source of listening I'd allocate most of the budget to deck, arm and phono stage. A Rega 3 is an adequate deck but IMO most sprung suspension decks are a good deal better - AR, Systemdek, Michell etc likewise most direct drives from Technics, Denon, Sony.

Don't underestimate the importance of the phono stage.

Recommending specific items is hard due to vastly varying tastes in presentation. I know it is hard right now with the whole virus thing but if you don't know what you want in terms of presentation there's no substitute for getting out there and listening to some systems, either at friends or at dealers, just to give you an idea.

Whatever deck you go for I'd recommend buying a used one, to get maximum return for the spend.

Macca

08-10-2020, 11:20

Oh and I wouldn't recommend Totem speakers, they are expensive for what you get and measured performance is poor.

walpurgis

08-10-2020, 11:49

I liked the Totems I've heard and don't care about measurements, users seem to like them too and they've been well reviewed.

fatmarley

08-10-2020, 12:07

Just had quick look at Totem Stereophile measurements and some look fine but other look absolutely terrible. So I guess it depends on the model.

Patrick Dixon

08-10-2020, 12:11

I would start with the speakers.

If you want to put the speakers in a open plan home and hear music throughout, consider something omni-directional, like Shahinian or efficient like old Tannoy.

Choose your amplifier to suit your speakers eg Shahinians will need a more powerful amplifier than most other manufacturers. Ideally hear the speakers with the amplifier before you commit.

Buy the best turntable/arm/cartridge combination you can afford.

Stream via a USB DAC. Rip the CDs to FLAC.

Macca

08-10-2020, 12:14

I liked the Totems I've heard and don't care about measurements, users seem to like them too and they've been well reviewed.

I'm sure they sound fine, they'd be unlikely to put them out for sale if they didn't, but it's more a question of whether you could do better than Totem for the same or less money. I'd say you can.

'Well reviewed' is meaningless these days. Everything is well reviewed. Most reviewers are clueless and mates with the manufacturers. I saw a good reviews of cable lifters the other day.

walpurgis

08-10-2020, 12:31

And no doubt Totems will be cheaper in their home country.

I expect Steve is probably looking for a straightforward system that he can just set up and enjoy with minimum fuss. Recommending obscure, exotic, specialised or very vintage items may not be the best way to go about this.

AJSki2fly

08-10-2020, 14:05

So I have tried to find suitable items in CA, I have enjoyed spending your money and have tried to give sensible suggestions which will work well together, some combinations may go over your budget but you can work that out.

I have just noticed some previous posts have mentioned not recommending vintage stuff and that you may want a simple plug together solution, in my mind with CA$8-10K you can end up with a system that sounds very nice indeed, hence my selections below. One area of caution is older Solid State amps, these can be difficult a pricey to get repaired, whereas tube amps it is general easier. The turntables I mention are pretty well known and reliable. The speakers as someone else mentioned is where you will really can win, the Tannoys being tops and possibly the Ambience(note investigate reliability on these), not everyone likes Klipsch but they are good.

If you have a largish vinyl collection and are mainly plaining to listen to them then I would spend a bit more on the TT

Turntable

A good starting point Turntable, I used to have one and to be honest if you set it up on a well isolated platform then you would need to spend quite a bit more to get a much better experience(excuse the pun). Partner it with an Ortofon 2M Bronze or Black, or Goldring 2500 if moving magnet or if you want moving coil then consider Ortofon Quintet range or Hana HL or SL.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649661744-project-2xpreience-acrylic/images/2906745/

If you want to post the boat out this is VGM and is with cartridge

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649658108-for-sale-pro-ject-xtension-10-evolution-turntable/

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649525481-rega-planar-3-turntable-with-mission-774-tonearm-see-photo/ a cheaper option, arms a good on if still OK ask dealer, needs cartridge

Amps

A nice tube amp would match the speakers pretty well.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649662297-audio-space-as-3i-integrated-tube-amp/

A seriously nice Single-Ended Pure Class A tube amp, even though its probably new top end spend for you, it would be worth it, you will get a pure musical sound from it

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649634282-icon-audio-stereo-30se-single-ended-pure-class-a/

Solid State

these have had very good reviews and would sort you streaming out, and are a great price I believe

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649662313-marantz-pm8006-na6006-audio-system/

Old school but seriously nice

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649648684-pioneer-sa9900-amplifier/

Here is a lovely beast

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649633095-powerful-and-mint-rotel-ra-1070-for-sale/

Speakers

I would not go for anything smaller than these, have been to CA many times and owen a couple of houses there, I know the rooms can be large and you want to be able to shift lots of air for a reasonable bass, unless you intend to listen close up to the speakers, and not have them more than 3m apart.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649662170-jbl-century-l100/ thee will give you a good musical rendition, and nice bass, I used to have a pair, and are easy to drive, buy some stands for them from JBL to get them off the floor. You can order replacement foam grills online from Poland for about CA$350 plus postage. Make sure the crossover pots are working OK if you go to hear them, or another pair.

A possibility a great horn speaker and easy to drive

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649652899-klipsch-cornwall-a-pair-of-speaker-recapped-refinished-amp-inner-box-braced/images/2864974/

Well worth consider similar to Magnepan but reportedly better.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649650127-ambience-1800-super-slim/

Seriously nice speaker, but more money, they will sound great

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649652913-a-pair-of-tannoy-monitor-gold-15-inch-dual-concentric-speakers-in-corner-york-cabinets-beautiful-loo/

Streaming
A few words on "Streaming", there are lots of solutions and you can spend a fortune, if it is going to be you main source and primary listening experience then you may wan to invest in a good quality Streamer/DAC. Whatever you buy then ensure you can access Network Access Server(NAS) or it is DNLA complaint to hook onto an iTunes library if that is what you use. You say you have lots of FLAC file, I would move these to a NAS drive look at Buffalo they do a good range, ensure it has a backup drive or is RAID configured.

One solution with is very cost effective and is a good toe in the water approach is a Raspberry Pi(RPI), a credit card sized computer, plugged up to a DAC board, which you hook up to your amplifier. The RPI is a whopping $60 and a good DAC board $100 to $$250, have a look at https://volumio.org/shop/, a single box and highly rated solution is the Volumio Primo. So a complete solution RPI/DAC CA$200 to $400, or Primo for about CA$600

On the DAC front for RPI you won't go far wrong with these

https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-dac2-hd/ and RPI 3 or 4

https://www.allo.com/sparky/katana-isolator.html

For RPI and DAC they can benefit from using linear power supplies or lithium battery packs, there are many on the market for 5v.

Both solutions will run the interface software 'Volumio' and you connect to it wirelessly using a tablet, mobile phone or computer to select what you want to listen to. You also configure Volumio to see your NAS drive and music files and/or an iTunes library, you can also access a huge selection of digital radio stations from all around the world. Also you can subscribe if you wish to Tidal, Qobuz for example and access these through Volumio.

To be honest in my opinion you will have to spend a lot more to get much better sound quality from a digital streaming system. By the way whatever you go for connect the RPI directly to the ADSL bocages by ethernet, and similar the NAS drive, avoid wifi for either if you possibly can.

If it was me I would go for:

Project 2Xperience Turntable with MM cartridge

If you can afford it the THE ICON AUDIO UK ST 30se if not the Audio Space AS-3i Integrated Tube Amp

with the Tannoy Monitor Gold 15 inch Dual Concentric Speakers

and top it of with and RPI/DAC solution or Primo if you have enough cash left.

paulf-2007

08-10-2020, 14:54

Steaming? Not once but twice, so I think you mean it. As said rooms generally larger so amp and speakers first as how the sound is critical whatever source is used. Then turntable, cart and phono, good mm rather than the minefield of MC, CD player, something modest if the budget is dwindling and a reasonable Dac

fatmarley

08-10-2020, 14:54

Watch from 7:14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCH1MMZChOc&t=248s

AJSki2fly

08-10-2020, 15:11

Steaming?

:lol::lol: a slip of the keyboard, or maybe subconscious done.

fatmarley

08-10-2020, 15:25

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649652899-klipsch-cornwall-a-pair-of-speaker-recapped-refinished-amp-inner-box-braced/images/2864974/

Old Klipsch are supposed to sound quite rough or bright compared to the latest versions.

bbones

08-10-2020, 18:58

I'm blown away by the responses and obvious levels of knowledge here. Super impressed and appreciative. I definitely have my homework cut out.

I honestly had not even considered used......it makes sense.

There was one comment here that really is more my reality.

"I expect Steve is probably looking for a straightforward system that he can just set up and enjoy with minimum fuss."

As much as I would really love to jump in with both feet here and go all out....it just won't happen. I'm front line in healthcare and the current Covid environment has me buried in obligations.

What I really want is a nice system that I can come home to......throw some music on that sounds good....and take a few breaths. (this will be my vinyl time) Ease of use in the long run will need to be a consideration.

If I am in work mode at home, then I will more likely look to digital.....but I typically have something playing close to 24 hours a day.

Anyway, I need to do some homework as some of your comments were like listening to a different language. LOL

Bottom line is I am super happy to have found you folks and hope to be able to positively contribute in my own way.

Steven

Pharos

08-10-2020, 21:38

I agree with the post which stated that you should choose speakers first, they are the most variable bit of a system, and they have varied characters, then choose a power amp which will work with them.

bbones

09-10-2020, 01:55

All your comments have made me realize just how little I really know or understand. Example. pros/cons of Moving Magnet versus Moving Coil, Tube amp versus otherwise. Need to do some homework so I can at least understand the basics.

Anyway, I've had a blast for the last hour or so just looking at for sale ads on the Canuk Audio Mart site. Hasn't helped me narrow things down......but been fun.

I'm probably pretty limited finding used locally as main population bases outside of Winnipeg where majority of components for sale are at a distance. Toronto or Montreal is 28 hours non stop drive, Vancouver same.........good thing is I have buddies in all of these locations so maybe a road trip is in the works (once Covid allows us to travel)

Only other comment is this has made me realize that I should probably avoid systems that require a large amount of technical set up (tuning of components etc)....because I really don't know what I'm doing.

On a plus side, I have a best buddy who's built my last 6 computers. He said building a NAS drive and your rasperry Pi comment.....would not be difficult at all. ( he said just get my wallet out)

Thanks again.....Steven

fatmarley

09-10-2020, 06:26

Please keep us updated. I'm sure I'm not the only here who'll be interested to hear how you get on. I quite enjoy the "I've got a big chunk of cash to spend on hifi" threads :)

AJSki2fly

09-10-2020, 15:39

Hi Steve, none of what I suggested is particularly tricky to set up, the turntables are particularly straight forward, setting up is part of the fun anyway. The RPI/DAC and NAS will be a great and cheap entry point for digital.

I agree with what several on hear have said, speaker are a good starting point, part of the reason I was pushing the better speakers. I learnt the hard way and ended up going through 6 pairs, two of which I could have lived with, but stupidly thought is was an amp issue :doh:, so after swapping amps I found out that nothing had changed much, the issue I had was the speakers.

Keep us posted, have fun and good luck.

Patrick Dixon

09-10-2020, 16:50

Given...

Only other comment is this has made me realize that I should probably avoid systems that require a large amount of technical set up (tuning of components etc)....because I really don't know what I'm doing.
I would avoid Tubes and MC phono for the moment. Keep it simple.

Example. pros/cons of Moving Magnet versus Moving Coil, Tube amp versus otherwise.

Barry

09-10-2020, 17:55

I would also advise avoiding MC cartridges for the moment; it is much easier to find a good quality fixed-coil cartridge for a reasonable price than it is for a MC cartridge.

I would also suggest that you look for a used Bryston (integrated) amplifier. They are made in Canada, are very well made (Bryston offer a 10 year warrantee, so they must be confident of the build quality), as well as having a fine sound quality.

Would not like to recommend you any speakers, as they are very much a subjective choice; but would agree the speakers are the first thing you should choose.

Good luck in your search - let us know how you progress. :)

bbones

09-10-2020, 18:14

Edward

09-10-2020, 18:28

If I was living in Canada and had that sort of budget the speakers that would be at the top of my list is anything made by Reference 3A.

Pharos

09-10-2020, 22:54

Thanks again. I'm starting to eat and sleep this stuff. In between meetings today I've been reading on belt versus direct drive turntables and a review on the Technics SL 1210 Direct Drive turntable. I agree with many of the comments re importance of speakers....it comes down to just how much do I want to allocate to each component.....and do I want to up my budget. (my practical side is saying No No No.....but this little voice keeps poking me......go for it. LOL) Now if work would just stop getting in the way.

I am forming the view that the only way to do anything really is to 'eat and sleep' it. Also I am thinking that there are two general types in the world; those who just get by, and those with deep conviction and follow up energy like Lawrence Dickie, and Oskar Heil. The pursuit of excellence is their life.

I reckon you should stifle that impulsive tendency which we may all have, and let your learning and subconscious mind do some absorbing processing and sorting.

Swann36

09-10-2020, 23:38

I'm going to add to those who suggest speakers first

Do consider Tannoys the HPDs should be a liitle less than Monitor golds ...i have to declare an interest here as i have a pair of 1976 Berkeleys which are terrific low level or loud as you dare ...alternatively Klipsch are great too ...i have some Klipsch Quartets from 1992 ...and some 1978 Infinity Quantum Jrs (harder to drive at 4 ohms) ...all of these aquired in the last 4 years so as you can see "Vintage" gets more for your money ...after speakers i'd say next is a TT mine is newish 3 years old i managed to get it 2nd hand at about 1/3rd of retail, as its Italian Atmo Sfera ....rather different but great sounding with an Ortofon MC cartridge. As its from italy upon a recommendation i got a Pathos In the Groove Mk2 phono stage (2nd hand) and then a 2nd hand tube amp, by SAC of Thailand an EL34 Minute its Class A only 10wpc but drives all 3 sets of speakers really well although the Klipsch & Tannoys sing best of all..i've spent similar money to your budget in Pounds assembling all these ...and i know you want a couple of other components to but you don't need 3 sets of speakers !!!!... so i hope my rambling on has helped a bit ...bottom line vintage and or 2nd or 3rd hand can give great results and punch above its weight in terms of sound for pound..

bbones

09-10-2020, 23:55

Off topic: Chatting with my 86 year old mum about this site.....mentioned a bunch of you characters are all from the UK.....I'm meant to say hello. She grew up in Leamington spa near Warwick. Last I was there, I was 11....a half century ago.

bbones

10-10-2020, 00:03

walpurgis

10-10-2020, 06:45

I'd say steer clear of vintage gear for now.

Set yourself up with decent modern second-hand or new equipment if you want an easy life. It's all very well folk recommending their 'pet' makes or items, but that misses the point really.

Concentrate on working out on what you expect from your proposed system, like what it will be mainly used for. Casual listening at modest volumes or 'party loud' capability or reproduction of rock or classical music cleanly at realistic levels (much harder to achieve than you'd think).

Macca

10-10-2020, 07:36

Regarding vintage/2nd hand.....especially now with Covid and travel mostly shut down.....I'm a little leery purchasing something where one is unsure of the care and quality. (saying that I will assume that higher end components are more likely purchased by like minded individuals as yourselves .......and therefore well taken care of)
Do components hold their value typically? Looking at some of these 2nd hand components for sale, and it is difficult to know whether it is a good deal.

Best thing to do is break it down. Loudspeakers first, then everything else falls into place.

Things to consider - what size is the room you are going to put them in. What sort of levels are you going to want to listen at. What sort of 'sound character' or presentation do you want.

With the latter you can go from warm and cuddly all the way to a forensic 'studio control room' type of sound, and everywhere in-between. A good, big speaker will always be better than a good, small speaker. But if the room is small a big speaker may be too much.

I'd guess with being in Canada you have at least a decent sized room i.e at least 20' by 15', so you should be able to accommodate a large speaker. Will you be able to place the speaker in space well away from walls and corners or will they need to be close to a wall?

(Note - of all speakers the large Tannoys and Klipsch are pretty much agnostic to room size and placement, they will work well even in a small room, but that isn't true of almost all other large speakers).

For presentation, if you want a forensic sound then look at speakers like Focal or B&W. For warmer, more euphonic sound, examples would be Harbeth, Spendor, Wharfedale. Again the large Tannoys can do either depending on what you partner them with. (These factors are what make big Tannoys so popular, although not everyone likes them).

The problem with buying some good, big speakers brand new is that they are ruinously expensive. So even if you buy the turntable and amplifier new I would go for second-hand speakers. The speakers and the room they are in dominate the type of sound presentation and the sound quality above all other considerations so this is the most important bit to get right and the bit where you need to get maximum bang for the buck. It's worth the effort of a long road trip in order to do this IMO.

Price - assuming the speakers are in full working order and good cosmetically - In the UK you would look at between £1500 and £3000 for Tannoys. Focal and B&W about half that. That's a big generalisation and won't be exactly the same in Canada, but should give you some ballpark idea of realistic second-hand pricing.

fatmarley

10-10-2020, 07:41

Geoff makes a good point.

If there's a vintage item you're interested in, you could always ask here first just to check if there are any known problems to look out for. Old speakers can be a nightmare with tweeter ferrofluid drying up, foam surrounds rotting away, surrounds coming away from the cone, suspension sagging causing the voice coil to rub. With very old ones electrolytic capacitors in the crossover can wear out.
Obviously if it's recently been serviced by a reputable person or company then there's much less risk.

Listening distance is very important to know when choosing speakers. Large multi-driver speakers listened too nearfield are generally not a good idea because the drivers need a certain distance to integrate properly - But small bookshelf speakers (LS3/5a etc) sound best when listened to nearfield and not so good further away.

Something I would personally like to listen too If I were nearer the United States are Tekton speakers. Although I realise they are still quite a distance from you - Tekton (https://www.tektondesign.com/lore.html). The Lore gets some excellent reviews and looks like a fun speaker.

Pharos

10-10-2020, 07:49

Speakers are the most reliable part of the Hi-Fi chain, and if something is wrong with one, it is usually blatantly obvious.

fatmarley

10-10-2020, 08:44

Speakers are the most reliable part of the Hi-Fi chain, and if something is wrong with one, it is usually blatantly obvious.

I'd argue it's not always obvious because the problems I mentioned are a gradual process. Ferrofluid drying up will make the tweeter sound gradually quieter, the worse it gets. Electrolytics drying up is a gradual proccess that will change the frequency response slowly over time. With mild voice coil rub it can often only be heard with the odd track, but most tracks will sound fine. Foam surrounds just before they fail can look fine.

Also, unless you have an exact pair of the same speakers up to spec to compare, you wont know what they are supposed to sound like.

Pharos

10-10-2020, 15:26

Of course you are right in principle, but foam is IMO easy to assess, it dusts, and cone rubbing checked with a finger placed around the coil on the cone and it pushed in around the circumference to check tendency. Caps are not expensive.

walpurgis

10-10-2020, 16:20

This thread seems to be drifting off into analysis of defects. Steve just wants some simple guidance and opinion on system building and buying.

struth

10-10-2020, 16:22

Best thing to do is break it down. Loudspeakers first, then everything else falls into place.

Things to consider - what size is the room you are going to put them in. What sort of levels are you going to want to listen at. What sort of 'sound character' or presentation do you want.

With the latter you can go from warm and cuddly all the way to a forensic 'studio control room' type of sound, and everywhere in-between. A good, big speaker will always be better than a good, small speaker. But if the room is small a big speaker may be too much.

I'd guess with being in Canada you have at least a decent sized room i.e at least 20' by 15', so you should be able to accommodate a large speaker. Will you be able to place the speaker in space well away from walls and corners or will they need to be close to a wall?

(Note - of all speakers the large Tannoys and Klipsch are pretty much agnostic to room size and placement, they will work well even in a small room, but that isn't true of almost all other large speakers).

For presentation, if you want a forensic sound then look at speakers like Focal or B&W. For warmer, more euphonic sound, examples would be Harbeth, Spendor, Wharfedale. Again the large Tannoys can do either depending on what you partner them with. (These factors are what make big Tannoys so popular, although not everyone likes them).

The problem with buying some good, big speakers brand new is that they are ruinously expensive. So even if you buy the turntable and amplifier new I would go for second-hand speakers. The speakers and the room they are in dominate the type of sound presentation and the sound quality above all other considerations so this is the most important bit to get right and the bit where you need to get maximum bang for the buck. It's worth the effort of a long road trip in order to do this IMO.

Price - assuming the speakers are in full working order and good cosmetically - In the UK you would look at between £1500 and £3000 for Tannoys. Focal and B&W about half that. That's a big generalisation and won't be exactly the same in Canada, but should give you some ballpark idea of realistic second-hand pricing.

what he said basically:)

bbones

10-10-2020, 23:26

Thanks. The reality is it will most often be "Casual listening at modest volumes"....although I'm a huge Genesis fan (with Gabriel) ...... Trespass and Selling England By the Pound.....will definitely be more than modest. (probably be the first albums I play (maybe Wish you were here)

Lurch

11-10-2020, 14:54

AJSki2fly

11-10-2020, 16:24

For a simple but good sounding plug and play system on your Budget I would say look at the following:
TT
Pro-Ject 2Xperience or Rega 6 (with Ortofon 2M Blue or AT VM95ML moving magnet cartridge)
AMP
Rotel, the 9xx & 0x range, are great sounding amps for not a lot of money used.
Arcam, Marantz, Denon & Hegel are also worth looking at but tend to be a bit dearer.
STREAMING
Either the RPi (with friend building) or BlueSound Node2i (made by a Canadian parent company)
CDP
Anything on the used market from Sony, Technics or Pioneer (most 90s early 00s are pretty good and cost peanuts on ebay)
PHONOSTAGE
(if amp doesn't have one) either a Rega phono or one of the Pro-Ject offerings.
This should then leave you a good chunk for speakers, wires and a rack (40% - 50% of budget).

John, Very good and sensible recommendations.

I would also add that if Steve could find a pair of Rotel RC1070(pre-amp) + RB1070(power amp) he would probably be set up for long term, they are about for sub £1K and are very good value for money as near reference sound quality. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0601/rotel.htm. In fact probably something I should consider if I need to take some money out the hifi system.

bbones

12-10-2020, 00:34

Thanks for this. I've created a table of the varying recommendations and reading up. Quite enjoying this.

Blackdog

12-10-2020, 00:44

Being in Canada, I would go with a Pro-Ject as opposed to a Rega turntable. Nothing wrong with the Rega's, but with the takeover of Focal-Naim as importer, the service, dealer network and support are a mess. Dealers are dropping the line all across the country.
Looking toward an amp, you could go with Bryston, Simaudio, or Hegel to name just a few.
Stay away from vintage gear. First off, you are probably buying somebody else's problems, and even working, you are still looking at big money to have it reconditioned for long term use. Also the vintage prices have gotten stupidly out of hand.

bbones

12-10-2020, 01:16

Just reading back thru comments

I'd guess with being in Canada you have at least a decent sized room i.e at least 20' by 15', so you should be able to accommodate a large speaker. Will you be able to place the speaker in space well away from walls and corners or will they need to be close to a wall?

My home is a split level (4 levels including basement). Overall square footage is 1700 square feet (think that converts to 160 sq. meters) (main level is just living room/front foyer which would be about 12 x 20 feet with 14 foot ceiling.....but it is open to the upper level (which looks down on main floor) and would add about another 14 x 20 feet (upper level would be standard 8 foot ceilings) (overall the open area where I'm looking to place the system would be 20 x 24 (feet)

Placement will likely be an issue as in the main floor area the front wall is mostly glass (and the opposite wall is a large stone fireplace) I'm unfortunately limited to one of the end walls for placement. I do have room to have them at least 3 feet from the walls. (one more in a corner with windows on both walls behind...the other I can place not in a corner setting with up to 6 feet of room behind)

My alternate location is the basement which is shaped like an L. (each piece of the L being approx 12x14....one with an 8 foot ceiling and the other opening up to 14 foot ceiling)

Suddenly lots to think about in terms of acoustics and placement.

bbones

12-10-2020, 02:43

Anyone have an opinion on GoldenEar Triton speaker line.??? Looking at an ad for the Triton 5's being sold out of Vancouver. I have family there. I know to take reviews with a grain of salt, but had read a couple positive reviews.

Anyway....saw this on that Canuk Audio site.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649643300-goldenear-triton-five-speakers/

Also there was a Rotel amp/pre amp suggestion

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649656929-rotel-rb-1070/

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649659208-rotel-rc-1070-preamp-with-remote/

Of course the speakers are 5000 kms from the pre amp LOL

Pigmy Pony

12-10-2020, 06:06

PMC? On the used market they go all the way from little DB1s all the way to :eek: size ones. And they would partner well with Bryston amplification. Or I believe B&W and Rotel are a good combination, with models at all price points. And a Technics SL1210 would work well straight out of the box, and very upgradeable if at a later date you felt inclined :)

Macca

12-10-2020, 07:03

Pharos

12-10-2020, 20:52

bbones

16-10-2020, 03:26

Hey Folks....figured I'd just check in and say Hi. Find myself quarantined at the moment. Had a possible Covid exposure at work a couple days back/since tested negative but still house bound for another 24 hours. Great opportunity to spend the day in my pajamas and read about audio systems.

In that regard, been trying to create a list of products that have "intrigued" me.
Speaker wise: Bowers & Wilkins 702 S2, Monitor Audio SILVER 300 , and the KEF LS50 Bookshelf
Amp: Rogue Sphynx and Schiit Audio Aegir were my reading of choice tonight. (quite intrigued with the former)

One question in this regard: some have a built in phono stage.....yet some of my reading had recommendations of adding a separate phono stage. I'm assuming that is mainly because the built was not considered up to par???? Or maybe I just misunderstood.

Also want to look at Bryston (they are Canadian and I talked to a buddy last night who's brother was one of the engineers for PSB speakers.....then went to Paradigm.....and he suggested I have a look) (he also commented that buying a used amp is a good way to go.......but he questioned buying used speakers???)

Turntable wise: I still keep bouncing around. Looking at the Rega 6 as suggested, Pro-ject tables, and read this morning on the Music Hall MMF 7.3 2 (this last one, along with Bowers & Wilkins, Monitor Audio products....I have a connection at BestBuy ........He's got me some past wicked deals on computer components) I also keeping going back and looking at the Technics direct drives.

One question here and using Rega as an example; Between the Rega 3 and 6.......price I think is about $800 more for the 6....both come with the Ortofon 2 M Red. Assuming I wanted to stay in a similar price range...would not buying the 3 but upgrading to say an Ortofon Black be a reasonable proposal? ie. spend a bit less on the table and more on the cartridge. I can hear you now saying no......get the 6 with the black. LOL

bbones

25-10-2020, 20:35

Figured I'd check in, say Hi and give an update.

Spent a very enjoyable Friday evening at a friend of my brothers picking his brain and listening to vinyl on his system. Moon components, B&W 803D3's, RP10. He recently changed his system and has a Music Fidelity Nu Vista 800 for sale....beautiful but would completely negate any budget I might have had. (I did try to justify though LOL)

Heading out with him on Wed. this week and likely will be picking up an R Planar 6 with exact cartridge, Moon 240i integrated amp......and then have a listen to the B&W 702 S2's. They are floor models (TT and amp...not sure on speakers) and price is comparable to what I've seen on the Canuck Audio site. Still waffling somewhat on the speakers as my practical side keeps saying pick up something not quite as expensive. Anyway, I'm going to have a listen to a few different brands and I guess we'll see. Trying to keep in mind that there are other expenses as well such as cables/stand that I should be factoring in.......but thinking I'll probably come home with the turntable and amp this week.

Keep you posted.

AJSki2fly

26-10-2020, 12:08

Hi Steve

Thanks for the update, sounds like you are well on you way to owning a great system. Keep us all posted and once in situ we love some Hifi porn pics. :lol:

bbones

26-10-2020, 20:12

Macca

26-10-2020, 21:34

I'd advise against getting hung up on cables right now. Anything made to a reasonable standard will be fine. $20 USD for a pair of interconnects will get you that and make sure the speaker cable is 14AWG or thicker. No need to go mad with money there either.

You can fine tune with these things, sometimes, but better left until you've got a system set up and you've lived with it for a while first.

Pharos

26-10-2020, 22:45

Apply the law of limiting factors, as do any engineers or scientists to any system.

The question then becomes one of ordinating the expenditure on the elements of a system.
I have a system which at new prices is £35k for speakers and amplification, but I do not use a mains conditioner or separate mains circuit because I do not think they are limiting factors.

I believe that competently designed equipment can easily handle transients because the power supply has adequate storage capacitance, and would never buy a special fuse, and would not spend very much on speaker cables, but would make sure they had plenty of copper.

bbones

27-10-2020, 01:19

Thank you for this and makes good sense. This is first step and I actually look forward to the opportunity to experiment and upgrade......after I've "lived with it for a while"

much appreciated.

walpurgis

27-10-2020, 09:55

I would point out that cheap or poor cables can have a negative effect. However, as has been said, there is no need to make extravagant purchases.

AJSki2fly

27-10-2020, 12:23

Can I ask a question on cables/connections.

I realize again the sky is the limit in terms of what you can purchase.

At one end you have the big spool of basic speaker cable that I ran thru the walls of the house when renovating...(that I now realize will likely never use) and at the other end are cables worth more than my car.

Is there a consensus at what would be considered a minimum requirement.???

The chap I visited last week....between his power conditioner,power cords, and speaker cable I'd need double my budget to just purchase them.......never mind the actual components.

I can't afford this level of committment but at the same time don't want to purchase some nice components...only to have the connections become a weak link. I'm trying to balance good sound and be realistic.

My eyes are slowly being opened just to how far I may go......as I swirl down the rabbit hole. :0)

You could make your own speaker cables up with this, have a read of the review, not expensive and I know several with high end gear that swear by it. https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund-dca16ga-tinned-multistrand-copper-wire-cotton-oil-insulated.html go for speaker plugs like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-Gold-Plated-BFA-Plugs-High-Quality-Z-Type-Speaker-Banana-Connectors-BFAPLU02/161649275565?epid=1926252999&hash=item25a30c32ad:g:lnIAAOSwFJBZUScO

Also for interconnect you could go for Belden 8402 cable for interconnects https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/belden-8402-audiophile-interconnect-cable-for-diy/, RCAs like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4pcs-Wbt-0144-Gold-Plated-RCA-Plug-Solder-Audio-Video-Connector-Locking-Set-NEW/383370461524?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOME SPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200520130048%26meid% 3De48b29b2f0cd4946b39048d1102ec76c%26pid%3D100005% 26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D1612610327 20%26itm%3D383370461524%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3 D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3 BBEV2b%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

the cable is very low impedance and used for microphone cable, when making them up you should only connect the sheilding at one end to the negative(outside of the RCA), there are many youtube guides on making up RCA cables.

Just need a soldering iron, good solder and a cheap meter to check continuity. Its the most cost effective way to get good cables at sensible cost.

bbones

30-10-2020, 18:55

Well Covid is having a negative effect on my new found audiophile addiction. Meant to be picking up my newly purchased turntable and amp tomorrow......and sitting back in their sound room testing out speakers. Our Province just got locked down due to a big spike in cases......which means my "kit" is likely behind locked doors for the next couple weeks.
........and of course means my healthcare work is going to be nuts next week. Stay safe folks........we had snow this week.....it's only October.......too early. Ugh

bbones

01-11-2020, 22:01

Well turntable and amp currently sitting in my living room, and speakers (B&W 702 S2) purchased and ordered....could take a month for delivery....but I'm super pumped. Already thinking what else I might want. LOL

While I wait, I'm curious what you folks use for cleaning your albums? That Friend of a friend who's system I got to enjoy has an Audiodesk Pro. It was super nice......but also $4600 Cdn. Still on my list of future potential items but wondering what other folks do. My albums have sat in crates for 30 years now.

Sitting back listening to a Cdn Classical composer Marjan Mozetich Affairs of the Heart.......one of the first albums I want to play. (an album I find very emotional and enjoyable if you have not heard and are into classical)

Enjoy//Steven

Macca

01-11-2020, 22:56

What TT and amp did you get?

bbones

02-11-2020, 00:10

Rega Planar 6 and Simaudio Moon 240i integrated (floor model and used respectively)

Macca

02-11-2020, 10:11

Solid choices. With them plus the B&Ws it should all sound fantastic.

KnuckleDragger

08-11-2020, 22:51

Can I ask a question on cables/connections.

I realize again the sky is the limit in terms of what you can purchase.
You are not wrong. Please do not be suckered in by audiophile cables. There is no such thing. Really there isn't.
There have been numerous tests performed in scientific double blind environments. In every test, nobody can tell the difference between "bell wire" and so called "high end" cables. It is just a marketing con job to get your money. There are scientific explanations for this. Perfect audio cables are a myth. Mostly put out by those who bought into this nonsense.

Barry

08-11-2020, 23:57

I'm expecting some interesting replies to that one Stephen. :D

:popcorn:

KnuckleDragger

09-11-2020, 00:07

I'm expecting some interesting replies to that one Stephen. :D

:popcorn:
As am I. I'm looking forward to the responses. I have the unequivocal research to hand. It's basic physics.
Let the good times role. lol.

After all. I'm sure we all want reality. Not just what we "want" to be true. The same goes for gold plated mains plugs, Ha haha.

Light Dependant Resistor

09-11-2020, 06:03

You are not wrong. Please do not be suckered in by audiophile cables. There is no such thing. Really there isn't.
There have been numerous tests performed in scientific double blind environments. In every test, nobody can tell the difference between "bell wire" and so called "high end" cables. It is just a marketing con job to get your money. There are scientific explanations for this. Perfect audio cables are a myth. Mostly put out by those who bought into this nonsense.

Yes quite correct, science, not marketing rules entirely with cables. We live in environments particularly where cables can and may act as antenna, which at worst adds additional unwanted content to be amplified.

Whilst a conductor end to end can be measured for resistance loss, there are small reactances within cable construction that detract from a music AC signal being the same as it is at the source component.
Given the majority of test equipment relies on showing sine waves, music contains, much more complexity, inferring we may presently only be at the tip of the iceberg so to speak, as to understanding the
all of the science, but lets be thankful there are good solid scientific principles with cable construction to put to our advantage.

The answer instead of wrongly driving cables toward always lower potentials and just hoping for a result, is to arrange current drive. That is the load instead of being eventually grounded, instead returns as signal to be compared with,and used to ensure it is ideally the same as the source. Where cables also are conductors when current drive is used, the properties of the cable itself stands a chance of also being corrected. https://www.current-drive.info/

Any signal using a conductor can be preserved , by using shielding, the science of shielding is usually one of two types, either twisted pair, or coaxial, this becomes more important where voltage levels are lower.
or where the cable is used in environments that are using many conflicting areas of the electromagnetic spectrum.

One has to simply extract certain attributes of science, to usually arrive at a good cable. As example the science of transmission lines usually suggested only applying at radio frequencies, is seen here
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34105-Coax-cable-50-ohm-for-audio-interconnects-and-speaker-hookup being entirely useful at audio frequencies too.

walpurgis

09-11-2020, 08:18

Never mind what 'scientific tests' imply. Listening to the effects of cables on the sound easily shows that some are inferior. This is clearly audible, not imaginary.

Macca

09-11-2020, 08:40

James Randi had to abandon his million quid challenge when it was pointed out to him that you could buy speaker cables that did actually change the sound.

But paying big money for speaker cable is a fools errand. Much more effective to spend it on better speakers and amps. Or a better TT, cartridge or phono stage if using vinyl.

bbones

10-11-2020, 00:35

Well an interesting discussion and I've done quite a bit of reading on the subject. In the end I purchased 2 8 foot lengths of 10 AWG Speaker Cable, Terminated. Somewhere in my readings (or might have been one of you folks) it was mentioned to check out Blue Jeans Cables out of Seattle Washington which is where I ordered these. Cost me $80 US. What was interesting was I ordered them last Thursday evening and Friday morning they were delivered at my door by FedEx. Seattle is a few thousand kms away.......talk about fast.
So I'll see how these are.....they look good for what little I know.

Now to continue to stir up debates here.........what about power conditioners.

I ordered thru Amazon Furman PL-Pro DMC 15 Amp Power Conditioner......my main reason being I want a surge protector. Had a lightening strike nearby a couple years ago that fried a tv and to the horror of my son.....his Xbox. I still don't quite understand how it can "clean" up the sound. Anyway it was $400 Canadian (what's that about 300 pounds)

Now I'm reading on anti vibration which I am finding quite fascinating. Especially home made remedies. One article talked about using a partially inflated bicycle tire under a butcher block cutting board. Anyway I'm having fun.........while I continue to "impatiently" wait for my speakers.

bbones

10-11-2020, 00:48

Your discussion on cables and sound quality reminded me of something else. When I went to listen to the B&W 702's they had it hooked up thru a streamer and Tidal. I had them play quite a variety from Rock to Blues to Classical......then my friend with the really nice kit showed up with some vinyl Randy Bachman album and Bob Marley.

I was totally impressed with the sound of the speakers when played thru the streamer.......but the vinyl.......I'm not sure if I'm describing it correctly but it was richer.....there was more depth. They both sounded fantastic but I was totally sold with the vinyl. Not sure I described that quite right but it had quite an impact.

Haselsh1

10-11-2020, 09:39

You are not wrong. Please do not be suckered in by audiophile cables. There is no such thing. Really there isn't.

Your personal opinion of course. There are a helluva lot of people out there who also believe in God.

AJSki2fly

10-11-2020, 11:29

Hi Steve

Please to hear you are getting there with a system, you have selected a good combo I think.

If you have not already decided on speaker cables then these would be worth considering. As others have said cables are an emotive subject. They can and do make a difference, but spending large amounts is not necessary to get a good result, although there are certain things to be aware of with certain types of cable. Have a watch of this he talks a lot of sense https://youtu.be/Dtb88_hbCFQ , there is one on speaker cable which does explain some of the theory on this area but with some practical and sensible advise. By the way as others have said HiFi Cables, whether loudspeaker or interconnects is the proverbial can of worms.

These are worth considering and there are lots of articles on the NET about them https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund-dca16ga-tinned-multistrand-copper-wire-cotton-oil-insulated.html, you just make up loosely twisted pairs, making sure you mark the + and - correctly so you connect them correctly. You can by some decent loudspeaker plugs like this https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8pcs-Nakamichi-24K-Gold-Plated-Copper-BFA-4mm-Banana-Plug-Speaker-Connector/392388364066?hash=item5b5c2b4722:g:E~IAAOSwB8tbnet- or https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8pcs-Nakamichi-Spade-Plug-24K-gold-Plated-Fork-Plug-Speaker-Y-Connector-Adapter/142518813261?hash=item212ec8824d:g:uwYAAOSwXfhe~pc L, I would shrink wrap them for safety. Alternatively QED 79 strand or QED REFERENCE XT25 is a very good starting point.

Also if you are reasonably ok with as soldering iron and have a meter then this for interconnects is very good, https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/belden-8402-audiophile-interconnect-cable-for-diy/, just buy some reasonable RCA plugs for CA$10-15 for set of 4 off Ebay for set of 4, again lots of articles how to make up, you will also need some shrink wrap. for the cable ends at RCA's

For isolation I have found these and am using under my speakers to isolate them and work very well https://www.amazon.ca/Hudson-Hi-Fi-Bigfoot-Isolation-Feet/dp/B08GLBKRYZ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Bigfoot+Isolation+Feet+-+8+Pack&qid=1605004880&sr=8-3

Hudson also do various others for under amps, turntables etc.for your turntable you might want to consider https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/aptitlig-butchers-block-bamboo-00233429/, you can laquer it black if you want, then place it on some Hudson's and put the turntable on top.

https://www.hudsonhifi.com

If you want to make a rack for your equipment on a budget, then https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/lack-side-table-black-20011408/. I saw that someone cut the legs down to the height they wanted for each shelf before assembly and filled edge leg with kiln dried sand for weight, and then fitted something like this to the bottom of each leg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-Speaker-spikes-isolation-with-feet-shoes-and-inserts-M6-thread/251249417116?hash=item3a7fa1db9c:g:hbgAAOSw4yJdLf0 P and fixed the protectors with blu-tack to the top of each shelf or floor. You still should use the Hudsons or similar under the hifi components as well to get the best benefit.

I hope the above helps, don't be put of that it is not costing an arm and a leg, you will effectively be doing what most isolation platforms do but can cost many CA$.

hifinutt

10-11-2020, 11:57

Your personal opinion of course. There are a helluva lot of people out there who also believe in God.

indeed ... at least 80-90 % of folks in my area would believe in God !!

Pharos

10-11-2020, 12:05

There is much beyond our understanding, and mankind has created God in an attempt to explain things.

All the best cables were sent to us in a plague of cables reigning on virgins, perhaps in the mists of the upper peaks of the Himalayas.

walpurgis

10-11-2020, 12:11

Apparently we can just use bell wire. All that money saved can go towards Shakti Stones instead.

AJSki2fly

10-11-2020, 13:43

Apparently we can just use bell wire. All that money saved can go towards Shakti Stones instead.

I have these strategically placed around the room and hifi, and they work wonderfully disrupting RF, EMF, and all sorts of other interference. :)

https://i.postimg.cc/NMf9KkGQ/sunset-dreamcatcher.png (https://postimages.org/)

walpurgis

10-11-2020, 13:49

I could only justify buying two of those. They have an amazing effect on my wallet though.

struth

10-11-2020, 13:55

gather up the dust too :eyebrows: the wife had several in her bedroom.. cut down on my high dusting tho.. just clean the catchers twice a year:ner:

bbones

10-11-2020, 13:57

Besides all the good info/advice provided, you folks are very entertaining with the comments and subtle "pokes". Quite enjoy the banter.

bbones

10-11-2020, 14:04

Thanks for this.
I was at Ikea on the wknd looking at those tables to make a stand.....I ended up electing not to. The APTITLIG butcher block cutting boards I purchased (but the ones without the groove) and today I should receive an Amazon delivery for a product similar to those anti vibration pads. (I was going to use them under the components.....but will keep these ones you mention in mind for the speakers)

Much appreciate all the investigation(s) you have undertaken.

walpurgis

10-11-2020, 14:20

Besides all the good info/advice provided, you folks are very entertaining with the comments and subtle "pokes". Quite enjoy the banter.

You'll find a fair bit of that here, all good natured though.

Haselsh1

10-11-2020, 14:28

The most amazing device I have for maximum sonic effect is the power of prayer. It almost works as well as my Peter Belt products left over from 1988. Either that or my Mk1 disco ball.

bbones

14-11-2020, 01:09

My speakers were delivered today. I'm a bit like the proverbial kid in the candy store at the moment. LOL

Also, seeing as I was already swirling around the audiophile rabbit hole I switched the Moon 240i for the Moon Neo Ace (same system but also includes a streamer/blue tooth)

Now I have to sit down and figure out how to hook it all up. (which I will thoroughly enjoy doing......except maybe figuring out how to connect the Moon to my router....and my digital library.
At this point I don't have a NAS drive and still in the reading phase to understand what all options may be available.

In the mean time.....I'm sitting in the living room......listening to tunes on my computer........looking at my new speakers......with a big stupid grin.

Macca

14-11-2020, 07:59

Nothing's better than new speaker day :)

Pharos

14-11-2020, 09:20

Unless you are in a position in which I find myself, languishing and unsure about the results. after three years.

Macca

14-11-2020, 09:33

Sell them and get something else then. If they're not doing it for you then they're not doing it for you, No amount of rationalising can change how you feel.

bbones

14-11-2020, 23:02

Well I went to hook up my speaker cables I ordered out of the states and one of the banana clip ends was splayed open and one of the "tines" (not sure what the correct term would be) broken off. Guess I should have checked when first received.

So sitting looking at my speakers (down one cable)......emailed the company (Seattle Washington)......looked at my speakers again.......poured a Crown Royal (locally made here in Manitoba.....this will likely stir up some conversation but I do believe their Northern Harvest won best Whiskey a few years ago).......anyway....with drink in hand.....I said F**k it.......went to the local audio store and bought Audioquest Rocket 33's for triple the price of what I had ordered. ($503 Canadian) ......but I wanted to listen to my speakers........but upon return I decided to pour another Crown Royal.......and now thinking I'll just hold off and finish hooking everything up tomorrow. LOL

This is really becoming quite the adventure.

Oh and I also ordered an Audiolab 6000CDTBK CD Transport - Black for my CD's

Pharos

14-11-2020, 23:04

Yes, that is what often occurs, and it can be also a part of the 'merry-go-round'.

The 'doing it for you' may be just a conditioned response to the familiar, prompting a comfort zone. Sometimes a new reality is uncomfortable, but necessary to address in order to facilitate personal growth.

A good parallel example is IMO smoking.

Sometimes I wonder if what I am hearing is in reality more faithful to the recording than I have previously heard, and that that is the problem - perhaps because I have always heard it coloured previously, and become habituated to a coloured sound.

We could apply the statistical curves to both recording quality and replay quality. Maximum satisfaction will probably be obtained when both are in the middle of their Gaussian curves. If only the replay equipment is poor, everything will sound poor, but if the replay equipment is extremely good then only the best recordings will sound good because they are being heard warts and all, forensically.

bbones

15-11-2020, 17:35

Well it appears this is becoming a lesson in patience for me.
Replaced the speaker cables.....followed the very straight forward directions to connect the MOON and as soon as the power switch is kicked on....it kicks out.
Tried it connected to power conditioner, to regular fuse bar, and straight into the wall.....same result.
Also tried it with no components connected....same result......and moved it to other house circuits......still same result.

I have to bring it back Tuesday so guess I get to look at my speakers for a few more days.

graham67

15-11-2020, 18:29

Hi Steven,
As you are in North America, I think you will get much better vfm with Canadian or US kit.
If you want old school without the risk, look at JBL classic L100 or L82 or the Klipsch Heritage range.
But pick whatever speaker you like and build the system around it. Get an amp that brings out the speakers best and pick a front end to fine tune the sound you like.
And most of all, take ur time and enjoy it :)

Ps just reread your first post, the JBL L100 can fill a big space and visually will fit in the rock poster theme.
I own old4311s (which sound very similar)and they are awesome rock speakers that also sound good with all types of music

bbones

15-11-2020, 19:32

Thanks Graham I have purchased B&W 702 S2's I have a friend with the 800 series paired with MOON components that sounded wonderful. I've purchased the MOON ACE integrated amp/DAC/Streamer.....which unfortunately seems to have a bit of a glitch at the moment and looks like will need to be returned.

I have spent a fair bit of time of late trying to research what amps pair well with B&W's as eventually I'd like to get individual components. (short list so far Classe, Rotel, NAD, and Arcam....seem to be consistently recommended) (also been reading on other MOON components and Bryston)

But as you mention....and I agree.....going to take my time and enjoy.......assuming I get this system to actually play for me.
I sure love the look of these B&W's.....hoping soon I'll also love the sound. LOL

Pharos

15-11-2020, 21:27

Brystn yes, good reputation and capable of driving low impedances I think, and B&W speakers can drop to low impedances.

bbones

15-11-2020, 21:35

Thanks folks......this really is an amazing little corner of the world you have here. Definitely disappointed at the moment but still having fun.

graham67

15-11-2020, 22:28

Thanks Graham I have purchased B&W 702 S2's I

But as you mention....and I agree.....going to take my time and enjoy.......assuming I get this system to actually play for me.
I sure love the look of these B&W's.....hoping soon I'll also love the sound. LOL

Oops missed the b@w purchase sorry, However no shortage of high power/current amps in Canada.

In addition to ones mentioned, may be worth having a look at Belles and maybe even Rogue Audio.

bbones

16-11-2020, 00:07

Interesting you mentioned Rogue Audio........my first choice initially was the Rogue Sphinx....then got a deal here so switched. Still intrigues me.

Pharos

16-11-2020, 12:11

Thanks folks......this really is an amazing little corner of the world you have here. Definitely disappointed at the moment but still having fun.

You don't know the half of it.

Teleton

17-11-2020, 17:58

Hi Steven,

Nice speaker choice. This guy has a great and addictive YouTube hifi vinyl channel, he uses B&w speaker. Much food for thought in his equipment reviews (he buys his own stuff to review, thus avoiding manufacturer or dealer bias)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cexQ4DmeoM

bbones

17-11-2020, 19:02

Thanks Steve for the link

So a good chuckle for all you folks.

It appears my lesson in patience may become a lesson in humility.

I had to bring my Amp back because I could not get the power to stay on. Main power switch in the back and then another in the front. I tried everything (double checking my connections, undoing all my connections, connecting and unconnecting from a power conditioner, plugging straight into the wall, picking it up and trying a different house circuit.......all to no avail.

Brought it in......and it worked immediately

There is a slight possibility of user error here.....and I may (after hitting the back power switch)........may have been simply pressing the wrong button on the front. :doh::mental:

I'll let you know once I try hooking it up again. Too funny if this is all it was.

Macca

17-11-2020, 19:28

We've all done it I'd guess. I did something similar today. Why is this not powering up? It's plugged in, socket plugged in and live, I'm pressing power. Why won't you work! - forgot there was a power switch on the back,

bbones

17-11-2020, 20:53

Well I'm meant to be working but.......

Started playing vinyl

First
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Grateful_Dead_-_From_the_Mars_Hotel.jpg

Currently
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71m0ofUWYXL._SL1300_.jpg

bbones

18-11-2020, 23:54

28859

Still figuring out how to use it........but very happy to have music playing again.

AJSki2fly

19-11-2020, 15:11

28859

Still figuring out how to use it........but very happy to have music playing again.

That looks great Steve, nice to hear your enjoying your new system. :)

bbones

20-11-2020, 23:04

Ok so I'm already thinking.....what next.

I'm going to pick up an I-pad with some hard drive space so I can play my flac files....with intention of eventually getting a NAS drive (reading up on the Melco) to house all the tunes I've amassed. I was planning on buying into a streaming service but I'm not sure any more. ( I get 3 months free Tidal with this Moon purchase) I have so much music on my computer I don't think it's necessary.

Anyway......my next question is not related to this. I've been reading up on external phono stages and their benefits over the stages contained within an integrated amp for example. Been reading quite a bit on the Graham Sleeman Era Gold.
Would that make sense as a next step? (not necessarily the Sleeman but an external phono stage?) My thought after that might be to get a better cartridge.

Saying all this........it all sounds fantastic to me now......but the addiction is in full swing. LOL

One final comment. I had prior mentioned I picked up some speaker cables from Blue Jeans Cable out of Seattle Washington.....much cheaper than the Audioquest Rocket 33's I bought when I discovered one of the original cable banana clips was broken. I emailed the company with a pic of the clip. Was emailed back yesterday........and today I received a replacement 10 foot speaker cable with ends. (from Seattle Washington)

I remember back in med school being told that someone happy with your service would tell 3 others.........someone unhappy would tell 10 others. So always do your best. I've never forgotten that. There is probably little benefit of this company to you folks on the other side of the Atlantic to me.......but regardless I'm totally impressed with the service received here. They sent a $20 cable today (spending $20 in shipping) I will definitely go back and look at using their service again.

Macca

21-11-2020, 09:11

They have a good reputation for service and value for money over here too.

Good to see you are enjoying the new set-up.

bbones

10-01-2021, 04:13

Hey Folks and Happy New Years.

Just checking in. My New Years present so far has been an ongoing episode of vertigo. Had a nasty fall on the ice a few weeks back and blew my knee out and then New Years morning......got up outta bed........and promptly fell into the closet. LOL Never had this before. Been to the Chiro yesterday and much improved today but still like walking on a boat.

Not much new on my end...been working pretty well 7 days a week for quite some time now. I don't have it yet, but I purchased a 2 year old Audia Flight phono stage off an acquaintance who had upgraded. Excited none the less.

Hope all are well
Steven

Pharos

10-01-2021, 11:00

I empathise about the health problems, but I realise that as we age it is like walking on a mountain ridge which narrows to an increasingly sharp edge, so much less room for error.

Of course in the UK ice is relatively rare, and when it happens our skills are not up to the challenge.

The Covid has served to be, analogous to a dental disclosing agent for plaque, a revealer of the inherent flaky mental health of many who seem to be on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

bbones

06-02-2021, 22:35

Hey folks...checking in as it's been a while.....and of course I have a question.

It is brutally cold here today....with the wind it is -40C (-30 without)....either way, I am not venturing outside more than I have to.

So just because I seem to be always looking to what I should buy next LOL I was doing a little research on cartridges. I must be honest I've very little knowledge in this area and I have never replaced a cartridge....so this is all very new.

Right now I have the Rega RP6/exact 2 combo and I'm quite happy with it. I find it overall provides great sound but is also forgiving on some of my albums that when I was younger and more foolish were played extensively.....and not handled with much care in mind. (I'm still creating a list of a few that I will need to replace...just too many cracks and pops)

So a few weeks back I upgraded my phono preamp from what is contained within my MOON Ace Amp.....to an Audia Flight that a buddy was selling. I was pleasantly surprised at how big a difference it made....especially with the lower base levels which I found were on the light side (I was thinking it was more my room) With the addition....and a good quality album.....the difference is striking.

So now I have a phono stage that will handle MM and MC......and thinking about upgrading the cartridge. From scanning suggestions on various chat lines. Ania, Apheta 3, Dynavector Karat 17D3 seem to be the most common recommendations.......but with a few caveats. Some comments have suggested they didn't sound as good....maybe because of the phono stage.........others have suggested have pointed at the P6 commenting on marked difference with the Ania when used with a P8 instead.

So my thoughts here are:

1. First, I am quite happy with what I have....so am in no rush to make changes....but saying that...I know I will upgrade....this audiophile "addiction" has me hook, line, and sinker ( if that is a recognized term outside Canada)

2. I can't see there being any concerns with the phono preamp. I am more of the opinion that I may need to bring other components up to it's level.

3. which leaves the TT and/cartridge....and I guess my question. I am assuming it is all about finding a good match. A super high quality cartridge could sound crappy if matched with the wrong TT ...and visa versa. (and I guess matching to the amp as well) So is there a benefit to spending for an apheta 3 cartridge on the RP6. THis is what my buddy has on his RP10 (he's now looking at Oracle)

I am leaning towards the Ania because it is Rega to Rega and I am assuming installation will be fairly straight forward. It gives me opportunity to listen to a MC versus MM (I really don't know what the difference might be at this stage).........and I'm pretty sure within a year or two.....I'll upgrade to an RP10......which would come also with a further upgraded cartridge.

Am I getting overly picky here? It's funny and hard to explain to my friends as they do not have the same level of passion I do here. They all think I'm already nuts for spending what I have. LOL I figure most of you understand having been there for a while now. :0)

Ok one more Geographic based question. I am having one heck of a time finding vinyl for a few UK based bands that I really like. Wondering if it is also difficult over there......or if this is more just a N. America issue. I have digital versions of these but I'd really like some in vinyl. Shpongle, Ott (which nobody over here seems to have ever heard of).....and I recently discovered Porcupine Tree and am totally into their early stuff at the moment. I've found one album on Amazon I can buy on vinyl. I'm pretty sure I've seen some past pics here of album covers on that "what are you currently playing" thread. Are these bands relatively available as vinyl in the UK???

I may just have to fly over. LOL Actually, another buddy and I are looking at next November/December if we can get Genesis tickets........and it appears Rick Wakeman has a bunch of dates around the same time. (assuming Covid lets us travel)

bbones

20-02-2021, 04:22

Hey folks. Hope everyone is safe and healthy. Our cold snap has finally broken - 18 C today.......which my elderly mum still thinks is far too cold. It's funny how -18 can feel down right warm when you've had a couple weeks of -30.
Sunday is meant to be +6C WOW

Opened my front door today to see a package sitting there.....from a friend I went to med school with some 30 years ago. Opened it and it was 3 albums plus the concert booklet from us going to see Paul McCartney in Toronto (1990 I believe) Albums were an unplugged Mcartney album plus another of his that was released in Russia....plus the original Star Wars album. Anyway.........totally blew my away. I have not seen him in 20 years....we talk periodically but that's about it. Back in our Toronto school days we regularly rode our bikes around on Saturdays and hit the garage sales.......me for records....him for other stuff. It was lots of fun.

Anyway........totally blew me away.
I ordered a Degritter. Talk about tough to get but finally got confirmation that my name is on one of two coming to Vancouver....then to be shipped to Wpg. Can't wait.

Steven

Pigmy Pony

22-02-2021, 17:58

Opened my front door today to see a package sitting there.....from a friend I went to med school with some 30 years ago. Opened it and it was 3 albums plus the concert booklet from us going to see Paul McCartney in Toronto (1990 I believe) Albums were an unplugged Mcartney album plus another of his that was released in Russia....plus the original Star Wars album. Anyway.........totally blew my away. I have not seen him in 20 years....we talk periodically but that's about it. Back in our Toronto school days we regularly rode our bikes around on Saturdays and hit the garage sales.......me for records....him for other stuff. It was lots of fun.

Anyway........totally blew me away.

Steven

Ah, Steven, makes me feel warm and fuzzy... even by Canadian standards that is one very nice man. So thoughtful. You need to get your friendship going again, because y'know, life is short :)

SteveH1960

23-02-2021, 09:55

Try Zu Audio speakers, I have Omens and they are superb. Might be easier for you to get hold of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stranraer

06-03-2021, 20:42

"Ok one more Geographic based question. I am having one heck of a time finding vinyl for a few UK based bands that I really like. Wondering if it is also difficult over there......or if this is more just a N. America issue. I have digital versions of these but I'd really like some in vinyl. Shpongle, Ott (which nobody over here seems to have ever heard of).....and I recently discovered Porcupine Tree and am totally into their early stuff at the moment. I've found one album on Amazon I can buy on vinyl. I'm pretty sure I've seen some past pics here of album covers on that "what are you currently playing" thread. Are these bands relatively available as vinyl in the UK???"

Hi Steve, re the above the UK has a pretty strong vinyl support network, and I'm constantly amazed at the vinyl that's released by relatively obscure bands, including reissues of very niche 80s and 90s bands.
If memory serves, Porcupine Tree are ex members of one of my 80s faves, Japan. If you don't know them, check out the songs Quiet Life, Ghosts and Stateline.
If you want to give your exciting new hifi a real workout with an even more modern album (and judging from the musical clues you;ve given) I think you might enjoy Ladies and Gentlemen We're Floating In Space by Spiritualized, from the 90s. It's due a vinyl remaster release very soon.
If I make the lazy assumption that you'd be visiting London on your travels, and that you want to be down with the vinyl buying Kool Kidz, make sure you call in on Rough Trade record store and Sister Ray too.