View Full Version : Any of these tonearms decent?
Mikeandvan
01-10-2020, 20:25
Been searching on Ebay for cheapish tonearms, a few have got my attention, to go on a 401, opinions please.
Silvernote 512 MKII
Acos Gts1
QED Helius syrinx
QED R232
PLus the usual regas rb250 (some Audio origamied), 300, and the newer but looking rather identical to the rb250 - RB700 jobbie,.
Cart - might be MP200 MP500, VNs50, Goldring 2500, 1042, ???
Beobloke
03-10-2020, 11:47
I’m not familiar with the Silvernote but I wouldn’t get excited about any of the others.
A 401 deserves better!
spendorman
03-10-2020, 13:54
Love the Acos Lustre GST1 (sometimes known as the gas bracket)
Very easy to set up, works well. Accepts SME type headshells.
Wakefield Turntables
03-10-2020, 14:19
Your budget is a good place to start.
Mikeandvan
03-10-2020, 17:21
Acos lustre then may'be? I currently have a Jelco 750 that I could move off the techie, but have heard they can sound a bit leaden. Budget upto around £350 I guess.
The Vinyl Adventure
03-10-2020, 17:24
Silvernote arms are very very good.
If I had to choose an arm for a 401, it would be this (fitted with nice low-compliance MC): https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product/groovemaster-js-tonearm/
For me, it ticks all the right boxes and would really make the most of the 401s superlative bass!:)
However, for a nice VFM option, consider a unipivot, such as a Hadcock GH242: https://www.turntableworld.co.uk/analogue-c49/tonearm-zone-c3/tonearms-c4/gh242-unipivot-tonearm-p2
Or even cheaper, a Roksan Nima: https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/roksan-nima-unipivot-tonearm?gclid=Cj0KCQjwwuD7BRDBARIsAK_5YhWApYZQjtMU wVZWUUJDgyAWR0BR_KuVAfErLgUUtZffZSEoJmxstHkaAvYnEA Lw_wcB
IME, unipivots work well on 401s, as sonically, they can compliment each other well:cool:
Marco.
Mikeandvan
03-10-2020, 21:47
If I had to choose an arm for a 401, it would be this (fitted with nice low-compliance MC): https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product/groovemaster-js-tonearm/
For me, it ticks all the right boxes and would really make the most of the 401s superlative bass!:)
However, for a nice VFM option, consider a unipivot, such as a Hadcock GH242: https://www.turntableworld.co.uk/analogue-c49/tonearm-zone-c3/tonearms-c4/gh242-unipivot-tonearm-p2
Or even cheaper, a Roksan Nima: https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/roksan-nima-unipivot-tonearm?gclid=Cj0KCQjwwuD7BRDBARIsAK_5YhWApYZQjtMU wVZWUUJDgyAWR0BR_KuVAfErLgUUtZffZSEoJmxstHkaAvYnEA Lw_wcB
IME, unipivots work well on 401s, as sonically, they can compliment each other well:cool:
Marco.
I just sold a Nima, I didn't light its flimsy construction, and it would mistrack about a week after being set up, it was basically a plastic cup on a frigging pin. I'll stick the standard 1210 arm back on the techie, and use the Jelco for now with the Garrard, then keep an eye out for something decent second hand.
Not wishing to hijack or usurp, I am probably about to inherit a relatively unused 401, and had been considering SME 4 or H100 arms, if that is, the 401 is better than a Linn LP12 low level.
Any advice welcome.
I just sold a Nima, I didn't light its flimsy construction, and it would mistrack about a week after being set up, it was basically a plastic cup on a frigging pin. I'll stick the standard 1210 arm back on the techie, and use the Jelco for now with the Garrard, then keep an eye out for something decent second hand.
Fair enough on the Nima, but the Hadcock I mentioned is a different ball game in terms of construction, and I know they sound great on 401s:)
Marco.
Mikeandvan
04-10-2020, 08:34
Mayware formula IV MK 3?
Yeah, another option if you can find one in good enough condition and will be using high-compliance cartridges. I'm always a bit wary buying 2nd-hand tonearms, as you simply don't know what kind of life they've had, and which often doesn't reveal itself from any pictures...
But defo consider unipivots as viable options, as you might just hit upon a winning combination!:)
Marco.
Mayware formula IV MK 3?
Aha, I suspect you spotted the one on ipay lol. I own one with Decca cart / lenco 75 and have been blown away with it tbh. Little bit fiddly to set up perhaps
but as Marco says one to consider ?. Also, does emphasise the mids over base a bit ( Imo) but sounds sublime to my ears.
but as Marco says one to consider ?. Also, does emphasise the mids over base a bit ( Imo) but sounds sublime to my ears.
Yup, as do most unipivots, compared with their gimballed counterparts, but that's not necessarily a bad thing with the (arguably) bass-heavy 401, and which is one of the reasons why I've recommended Mike to go down that route, as the synergy could be good:)
Marco.
Mikeandvan
04-10-2020, 12:11
Aha, I suspect you spotted the one on ipay lol. I own one with Decca cart / lenco 75 and have been blown away with it tbh. Little bit fiddly to set up perhaps
but as Marco says one to consider ?. Also, does emphasise the mids over base a bit ( Imo) but sounds sublime to my ears.
Yer, how much do you reckon I should go to?
Paid 190 for mine on here a few years back, the one today might go for something similar ?. Thats well inside your budget as well, and then maybe you could try a Decca cart at some point in the future for musical bliss Rolleyes. 2 other maywares on there I notice at 250, which aint that bad a price to my way of thinking ?. Not sure if unipivots have less that can go wrong with them ?
I always thought Deccas preferred a wee bit of mass (as well as effective damping), Brian? The Mayware's super-light, I believe, although I've never used one. Is it a respected pairing in Decca circles, then?:)
I ask because I wouldn't know.
Marco.
Mission 774 (NOT the LC) they work very nicely with a 401, and can be had within budget.
Mikeandvan
04-10-2020, 20:52
Won the Mayware at £205, now what high compliance cart do I buy to match it with my 401? Scratches head.
walpurgis
04-10-2020, 21:05
Won the Mayware at £205, now what high compliance cart do I buy to match it with my 401? Scratches head.
It doesn't have to be high compliance. You could just as easily use a lowish compliance MC like the Denon DL-103. You'd need to use a head amp or SUT though and adjust the arm's fluid damping to suit.
Won the Mayware at £205, now what high compliance cart do I buy to match it with my 401? Scratches head.
Nice one Mike, not too far off with my price prognosis then lol. Well he seemed a decent seller and he s thrown in an arcam cart 77 ?, so who knows you might be happy with that.
Hope it goes well otherwise I can see Marco and I being off the Christmas card list for this year !
I always thought Deccas preferred a wee bit of mass (as well as effective damping), Brian? The Mayware's super-light, I believe, although I've never used one. Is it a respected pairing in Decca circles, then?:)
I ask because I wouldn't know.
Marco. Yeah defo, seen quite a few examples on the Lenco site, gl 75, Decca/ mayware. One guy claimed here a few years back that in 35 years of listening to Decca carts the mayware was best combo he d heard
I I. have the upgraded counterweight on mine which I know slightly defeats the purpose of a light arm, but it worked well for me and saves a bit on the aggro on set up. Maybe something for mike to think about ? :)
Mikeandvan
05-10-2020, 17:25
Nice one Mike, not too far off with my price prognosis then lol. Well he seemed a decent seller and he s thrown in an arcam cart 77 ?, so who knows you might be happy with that.
Hope it goes well otherwise I can see Marco and I being off the Christmas card list for this year !
Cheers, there seems to be quite a few well respected and popular high compliance carts on the market, so I'll have quite a selection to choose from, that Arcam cart is probably old and worn I'm guessing, never know.
Cheers, there seems to be quite a few well respected and popular high compliance carts on the market, so I'll have quite a selection to choose from, that Arcam cart is probably old and worn I'm guessing, never know.I like A&R 77 carts, let me know what he gives you, Red = C77 Blue = E77 & Black = P77. As for the body, if it has a gold can then it's a regular cart, if the can is Black then it's an Mg so metal as opposed to a plastic body.
Am currently running a P77Mg on my Ariston RD80SL in my 80s rig.
Sent from my I3312 using Tapatalk
Mikeandvan
05-10-2020, 18:22
I like A&R 77 carts, let me know what he gives you, Red = C77 Blue = E77 & Black = P77. As for the body, if it has a gold can then it's a regular cart, if the can is Black then it's an Mg so metal as opposed to a plastic body.
Am currently running a P77Mg on my Ariston RD80SL in my 80s rig.
Sent from my I3312 using Tapatalk
Its a C77 mg, very old by now, not expecting much from it, I guess replacement carts aren't available anymore.
The C77 is surpringly good for a conical cart. E & P styluses do show up from time to time on ebay, my P77 was a NOS stylus I grabbed from someone who didn't know what he had (muppet had it on ebay for £15 free p&p) had only been on 2 or 3 mins, hit the BIN button then started smiling and giggling.
Sent from my I3312 using Tapatalk
It doesn't have to be high compliance. You could just as easily use a lowish compliance MC like the Denon DL-103. You'd need to use a head amp or SUT though and adjust the arm's fluid damping to suit.
Mmm... Ok, firstly as I've said, I know next to fook all about Deccas or Mayware arms, so will gladly bow to the knowledge of those here who know far more than me in that area.
However, I do know the DL-103 inside out and back to front, and sorry, Geoff, I'd have to strongly disagree that it would work *optimally* in any low-mass tonearm. Quite simply, considerable experience of using the Denon for many years, in both light and heavy arms, completely contradicts what you've said.
The only way a 103 would have a chance of working properly in such an arm would be if you added about 13g to its headshell, and balanced it out at the other end, but then that would defeat the point of having a Mayware, and fly in the face of its design principles.
So for me, either grab a Decca, as it seems that's a top combo, or fit a quality low to medium-compliance MM or MC to the Mayware, as that will almost certainly be the best route to quality sound.
Nice one on winning the Mayware, btw, Mike. I'm sure that with the right cartridge it'll form a great combination with your 401!:)
Marco.
The nice thing about the Mayware is that you can vary the effective mass. If you want to use a low compliance cart, slide the rider weight right up behind the head shell and set the VTF by adjusting the main counterweight. I ran mine quite happily with a Denon 304 without any damping. Worked a treat.
Hi Shane,
Glad it worked for you, and although what you say about the rider may be true, I'm a great believer in tonearms being 'one-trick ponies', in that they're specifically designed to *optimise* the use of one type of cartridge (they may work ok with others, but optimise is quite a different matter), rather than being a 'jack of all trades', as the relationship between and arm and cartridge is such a finely balanced and critical thing to get right.
In that respect, what you've described with the Mayware, in terms of its claimed efficacy with low-compliance cartridges, is a compromise... Personally, I don't entertain those unless there's no other option, and so Mike shouldn't either, and choose a cartridge instead that his arm was designed to partner - and almost certainly, that's low to medium-compliance cartridges.
Furthermore, a DL-304 is a different beast from a DL-103, and has high compliance, so I'm not surprised that it worked well on the Mayware:)
Marco.
AlasdairB
29-01-2021, 11:18
Dear Marco,
I don't know what you have against Covid vaccination. Just for the record I like your views on hifi but you are wrong about vaccination. If you really want to debate this I suggest you do it elsewhere.
Stay healthy and keep enjoying music,
Alasdair
VinylDog
08-05-2021, 14:07
Alasdair - you do realise that he owns this website and is therefore free to state his views...?
Jelco works fine on my slate plinthed 401.
Hello all
I'm after arm advice for an 80's AR 'The Legend' TT (pic attached) - it still has the stock arm (I've read it's a Jelco but don't know for sure). Contenders are: Origin Live Silver (could stretch to a Zephr), Rega RB880, Michell Technoarm 2, Roksan Nima - but I'm far from an expert and haven't heard any of them.
Soooo, what says the community? I'm open to suggestions!
TIA
Beobloke
12-05-2021, 11:47
Hello all
I'm after arm advice for an 80's AR 'The Legend' TT (pic attached) - it still has the stock arm (I've read it's a Jelco but don't know for sure). Contenders are: Origin Live Silver (could stretch to a Zephr), Rega RB880, Michell Technoarm 2, Roksan Nima - but I'm far from an expert and haven't heard any of them.
Soooo, what says the community? I'm open to suggestions!
TIA
Nothing wrong with the standard arm at all (which is a Jelco). I'd stick with it and buy more records, personally!
Nothing wrong with the standard arm at all (which is a Jelco). I'd stick with it and buy more records, personally!
:lol: Always buying records!
The AR has served me well for many years but I also have a Rega RP1 (2011) which I've modified a fair bit over the years; top & bottom bracing, stainless steel pulley & sub-platter, acrylic platter & motor thrust bearing and most recently a Rega RB250 arm with Origin Live stainless steel stub and counterweight (running a Nagoka MP-110 cartridge). To say it sounds better than the AR (which has an Ortofon Blue cartridge) isn't right but the sound of the Rega seems more forward with better instrument separation so I was thinking that a 35 year old arm that's had a fair bit of use might be showing it's age. A friend bought an AR a couple of years before me ('83/'84) with the Linn LVX which was sold as an upgrade but the internet doesn't seem to rate this arm much these days and that got me thinking too.
To be fair, I've recently moved home and now have room to have both decks out so it could be I need to get used to the AR again as it could be as simple as it having different sonic characteristics. Would you say it's worth having the Jelco rewired? It's a pretty slim tube.
Beobloke
13-05-2021, 11:54
Would you say it's worth having the Jelco rewired? It's a pretty slim tube.
See previous answer! What cartridge are you using on it? Improving this would be where I would spend my money.
Cartridge is the Ortofon 2M Blue, which could be the difference I'm hearing as I've read the Nagoaka MP-110 is more forward. I've had a few days of listening now and have to say I prefer the AR sound over my much-modded Rega. It sounds more assured and stable, I bit like how it looks! It's also quieter, I can't hear anything at all during quiet sections and between tracks. It's been mostly sat in a box for 10 years which I know now is a crying shame. Now I have a half-decent cartridge on it and have spent some time getting the settings right I can't fault it.
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