David Price reviews new £4500 Creek Voyage i20 Amplifer

[Theadmans]

David seems to like it:-

https://www.stereonet.co.uk/reviews/creek-audio-voyage-i20-integrated-amplifier-review

...but gulp £4500 for a Creek Amp.

Guess that is partly down to no longer manufacturing in bulk in China...

...the new stuff will be made in Eastern Europe in small batches.

On paper the new amp (apart from the digital inputs) doesn't look that much of a leap over the old Creek 100A. Both the 100A and i20 amps use Class G at higher power levels (but the 100A was much less than half the price of the new i20).

I don't see a price for the matching Voyage CD player (it will be difficult to justify a 4 grand plus price)...

...there is no streaming and the player is straight Red Book (no SACD etc). It has DAC inputs (but so did the old 50CD and 100CD) - at least the USB input will now do DXD.

For the record I am the happy owner of the 50A amp and matching 50CD CD Player...

The old 50 / 100 had nice engraved logos and model numbers - the new stuff looks a bit cheap by comparison.

Also why put the headphone socket on the black OLED display panel? In low light I can see users missing the socket and scratching the panel with the headphone jack.

Just two front panel knobs are probably cheaper to make - but I really like the old soft press backlit buttons on the old 50A and 100A models.

Also I think the model names are a bit weird "Voyage i20" for the amp and "Voyage CD" for the CD player. Wouldn't it have been more logical to have Voyage Amplifier and Voyage CD.

...I might upgrade to the now discontinued 100A amp (if people start selling them at reduced prices)

...but £4500 for the new amp is a bit off the chart for me.

[hifinutt]

seen a few 100a at discounted prices , 4.5k is a LOT of money !!!

[nonuffin]

David seems to like it:-

https://www.stereonet.co.uk/reviews/creek-audio-voyage-i20-integrated-amplifier-review

...but gulp £4500 for a Creek Amp.

Guess that is partly down to no longer manufacturing in bulk in China...

...the new stuff will be made in Eastern Europe in small batches.

On paper the new amp (apart from the digital inputs) doesn't look that much of a leap over the old Creek 100A. Both the 100A and i20 amps use Class G at higher power levels (but the 100A was much less than half the price of the new i20).

I don't see a price for the matching Voyage CD player (it will be difficult to justify a 4 grand plus price)...

...there is no streaming and the player is straight Red Book (no SACD etc). It has DAC inputs (but so did the old 50CD and 100CD) - at least the USB input will now do DXD.

For the record I am the happy owner of the 50A amp and matching 50CD CD Player...

The old 50 / 100 had nice engraved logos and model numbers - the new stuff looks a bit cheap by comparison.

Also why put the headphone socket on the black OLED display panel? In low light I can see users missing the socket and scratching the panel with the headphone jack.

Just two front panel knobs are probably cheaper to make - but I really like the old soft press backlit buttons on the old 50A and 100A models.

Also I think the model names are a bit weird "Voyage i20" for the amp and "Voyage CD" for the CD player. Wouldn't it have been more logical to have Voyage Amplifier and Voyage CD.

...I might upgrade to the now discontinued 100A amp (if people start selling them at reduced prices)

...but £4500 for the new amp is a bit off the chart for me.

The post above simply tells me that manufacturers are panicking about the shrinking demographic that will buy their products. A shrinking market means they have to jack their prices up just to stand still and the "value for money" scales go right out of the window as we see in the above review.

The industry could have done and do a lot more now to maintain their market share, but they needed to cooperate in spreading the word about how music SHOULD sound to the younger generations, but sadly this has not materialised, so we see second rate products at grossly inflated prices which will ring the death knell for many of them.

When we see price tags like this, it is no wonder that secondhand goods fetch prices so high, the likes of which we never saw even 5 years ago and there too is another nail in manufacturer's coffins even though they seem unable to see it.

[Mystic Mac]

£4500..... wow
It’s gonna have to be something special for that price.

Strange move really, moving from the sub £2k market straight up to just shy of £5k. I just don’t think they have the kudos of some of the ‘marquee’ names in hifi to make such a bold move successfully.

[Theadmans]

Yeah Creek started out with the 4040 amp aimed at the students going to university market.

The amp was purposely small to allow easy transportation from home to uni.

I then had the 90s Creek 4330 amp (still small and sounded great)...

...I then moved onto a demo 50A (about £500) and gulped as I paid £900 for a new matching 50CD CD player / DAC.

But these units were still small in the height and depth dimensions and fitted nicely on my bookshelf location.

I have been pleased with these Creek 50 units - I asked Noel via a letter in HFW recently if I should upgrade. Fairplay to Noel - he said that the Creek amp would be worth sticking with.

The new Creek stuff is too deep for my shelves and way too expensive anyway.

The fact that the same DAC is installed in both the new Creek Voyage Amp and CD player is curious. Is anyone that buys the £4500 amp then going to fork out another big cheque for the matching CD player (with the same DAC)?

If I had £4000 burning a hole in my pocket - I'd be looking at the NAD M33 Master Series (makes the Creek amp look a bit old fashioned and very expensive).

[hifi_dave]

Creek gained their reputation for bargain priced products. £4500 is a lot of money, so needs to be very good.

[walpurgis]

It'll have to go some to be a better listen than the Destiny 2.

[Filterlab]

I’m sure the new Creek is worth every penny as I’m imagining they’d be reticent to bet their longstanding reputation on an overpriced failure.

Their amps have always been excellent, at any price point. I had a 4040s3 many years ago, it was my second Hi-Fi amp, and it was splendid! Tiny and big at the same time. It shoved my Tannoy Mercury Golds among very nicely. Warm and musical it was. Cracking value, nicely finished, unusual green on black lettering, easy to accommodate too. I remember it fondly.

I moved to a powerhouse Sony after that and was never as happy as I was with the Creek. The Sony revealed more detail, but the heart and soul of the music disappeared. That’s what I think Creek have always been good at. And from the looks of that review, that’s still in evidence.

Unusual that their display stand has the Citroën logo on it(?).

[Theadmans]

Seems the new Creek i20 amp and matching CD player are out early in November...

The CD player price is £2495 - I wonder just how good the Stream Unlimited CD80 slot-drive mechanism is compared to the slot-drive in my £900 Creek 50CD player?

The AKM DAC in the Voyage CD has better specs than the twin Wolfson 8742 DACs in my Creek 50CD and translates to a higher SNR. But I wonder how much better the sound is in practise.

If the amp was also £2495 - it might have had a chance - but I fear £4495 is a step too far for most.

Shame - I respect Mike Creek.

Nevertheless I hope this new Creek amp and CD player are a success.

[Theadmans]

A couple of rather amateur mistakes in Noel Keywood's Hi-Fi World review of the new Voyage i20...

Noel says that having a switch mode psu the new i20 is smaller than the outgoing Creek 100a (which had a toroidal).

Voyage i20 - 430mm x 80mm x 350mm (w x h x d)

100a - 430mm x 60mm x 280mm

So no Noel - the new model is far BIGGER than the old amp (in both height and depth).

Also the price of the i20 is given as £4999 at the end of the article (but £4495 in the text)...

...but what's £500 at this price level?

BTW my Creek 50A wasn't a lot more than £500 (ex demo).

I would have really liked a comparison between the 100A and the i20 (the 100A was HFWs reference amp)...

...but Noel makes no comment on this - just giving the i20 his normal 5 Globe - Outstanding - Among the Best verdict.

Looking at the specs - I suspect there wouldn't be a lot of difference between the (£1495) 100A and the (£4495) i20...

...maybe the switch mode psu in the i20 might even count against it (compared to the toroidal in the 100A).

I thought it would be instructive to dig up Noel's old test of the 100A from 2015:-

100A gives 136 watts at 8 ohms and 225 watts at 4 ohms (i20 gives 120 watts at 8 ohms and 225 watts at 4 ohms)

100A Frequency Response 3hz - 85khz (i20 Frequency Response 2hz – 53khz)

100A Noise -110db (i20 -106db)

Both old and new amps have 0.1% distortion.

Both amps use similar Class G technology.

The i20 benefits from an internal AKM DAC (but then the 100A could be retro fitted with the Ruby Wolfson DAC).

Even with the Ruby DAC fitted - the old 100A was half the price of the new i20.

[oldius]

I have always liked Creek amplifiers. It is a lot of money but the niche nature of our hobby dictates that high margins are almost essential but it will kill the hobby, eventually, and is a large part of the reason why the used market is so active.

[Floyddroid]

The post above simply tells me that manufacturers are panicking about the shrinking demographic that will buy their products. A shrinking market means they have to jack their prices up just to stand still and the "value for money" scales go right out of the window as we see in the above review.

The industry could have done and do a lot more now to maintain their market share, but they needed to cooperate in spreading the word about how music SHOULD sound to the younger generations, but sadly this has not materialised, so we see second rate products at grossly inflated prices which will ring the death knell for many of them.

When we see price tags like this, it is no wonder that second hand goods fetch prices so high, the likes of which we never saw even 5 years ago and there too is another nail in manufacturer's coffins even though they seem unable to see it.

Excellent post and i thought the above reply was fascinating. In my recent quest for a pair of speakers i noticed the price hike in lower quality speakers and the ridiculous prices being asked by deluded second hand sellers for 20 and thirty year old products that look like they had been dragged behind a tractor. (slight exaggeration) grossly inflated. The above quote explains this all perfectly to me. As more of us 60-70 year old predominantly male audio enthusiast pop our clogs (hastened lately i might add) then this market will shrink even further. I think manufactures and those selling second hand need to get real. Mike Creek must be shaking his head at the moment having sold the brand on to a European concern. I am enlightened.

[Macca]

I don't know about that. if you are over 50 you grew up in a different world to today. No computers, no internet, no digital. That landscape defined what an audio enthusiast was. The ultimate aspiration was an RTR deck, top of the range turntable, high-end pre-power, big speakers, and a record and tape collection that would fill a warehouse.

It was an aspiration only achievable by those with a large disposable income.

Now it is a laptop/streamer, DAC, and headphones - or small powered speakers with DSP integrated subwoofers. The warehouse full of records and tapes has been eclipsed by the millions of albums available at the click of a mouse. You no longer need to spend a fortune to achieve the dream. I think that's a good thing.

On the flip-side a lot of the 'romance' and mystery of audio that we all grew up with has gone. That's not a good thing. But we have to accept we are old now, the world has moved on, the tide went out and left us high and dry on the sandbanks.

It's not our world anymore, it's the world of people in their 20s and 30s. The don't know who David Price and Mike Creek are and they have no interest in £5K integrated amplifiers.

Audio enthusiasm is as big as ever, just not in any form that we recognise or relate to.

[Puffin]

I don't know about that. if you are over 50 you grew up in a different world to today. No computers, no internet, no digital. That landscape defined what an audio enthusiast was. The ultimate aspiration was an RTR deck, top of the range turntable, high-end pre-power, big speakers, and a record and tape collection that would fill a warehouse.

It was an aspiration only achievable by those with a large disposable income.

Now it is a laptop/streamer, DAC, and headphones - or small powered speakers with DSP integrated subwoofers. The warehouse full of records and tapes has been eclipsed by the millions of albums available at the click of a mouse. You no longer need to spend a fortune to achieve the dream. I think that's a good thing.

On the flip-side a lot of the 'romance' and mystery of audio that we all grew up with has gone. That's not a good thing. But we have to accept we are old now, the world has moved on, the tide went out and left us high and dry on the sandbanks.

It's not our world anymore, it's the world of people in their 20s and 30s. The don't know who David Price and Mike Creek are and they have no interest in £5K integrated amplifiers.

Audio enthusiasm is as big as ever, just not in any form that we recognise or relate to.

Spot on Martin. All I would add is that for me if I hadn't got into DIY audio around 30 years ago I would have never had so much fun and tried so much stuff that I would have simply not bought given commercial price tags.

[Floyddroid]

I don't know about that. if you are over 50 you grew up in a different world to today. No computers, no internet, no digital. That landscape defined what an audio enthusiast was. The ultimate aspiration was an RTR deck, top of the range turntable, high-end pre-power, big speakers, and a record and tape collection that would fill a warehouse.

It was an aspiration only achievable by those with a large disposable income.

Now it is a laptop/streamer, DAC, and headphones - or small powered speakers with DSP integrated subwoofers. The warehouse full of records and tapes has been eclipsed by the millions of albums available at the click of a mouse. You no longer need to spend a fortune to achieve the dream. I think that's a good thing.

On the flip-side a lot of the 'romance' and mystery of audio that we all grew up with has gone. That's not a good thing. But we have to accept we are old now, the world has moved on, the tide went out and left us high and dry on the sandbanks.

It's not our world anymore, it's the world of people in their 20s and 30s. The don't know who David Price and Mike Creek are and they have no interest in £5K integrated amplifiers.

Audio enthusiasm is as big as ever, just not in any form that we recognise or relate to.

Fair point.

[Haselsh1]

It was so nice to grow up in a World where we weren't coerced into a digital is the best mentality.

[Floyddroid]

It was so nice to grow up in a World where we weren't coerced into a digital is the best mentality.

I very much agree with you Shaun. I think as a 62 year old that i really have been lucky to grow up with music in the way that i have. Until the past few years i had never considered music as a commodity, i have always considered which music i prefer to listen to not consume. My hi-fi has come and gone for many years though my music has only ever grown. As Macca so aptly put it i am of a certain age so there is no right or wrong here, we are just coming to the end of an era associated with our age and mentality. Important therefore to celebrate whet we have.