RCA confusion

[Sansiiro]

Hello!

I am getting a power amplifier and I wish to connect my TV and also music source to that.
As I do not have a preamp (yet) I am trying to buy and use as a temporary solution these plugs:

28414
https://www.djservice.ee/article/kaablid-ja-pistikud/pistikud-ja-adapterid/dap-audio-rca-ma-2xrca-fe-res

I reckoned it is right to connect two right channels (TV, source) to one and two left channels (TV, source) to another.

But what is going on with these indications on the plugs?
Have you ever seen a use-case such as this, where you would merge R and L channel into one RCA socket?
If the R and L are supposed to be from different sources, then surely one source would have the wrong polarity.
Do you think these indications matter or can I just use it in a "normal" way? (2left -> 1 left, 2 right-> 1 right)

[Lawrence001]

Don't use this it's not clear to me what it does and you need to attenuate a full level signal from the source into the power amp or you'll blow your speakers and there's no indication to me it will do that.

If the output on the TV is controlled by the TV volume then in theory you could connect it directly to the power amp but I think most TVs output full volume via RCA.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Sansiiro]

From TV I use the 3.5 (headphone out) to rca cable.
So it should be controlled and ok.
As for music source, I have no volume control BUT,
the power amp XTZ Edge will have a gain control at the back.
It will be a pain to use it, but I think it will work without blowing the speakers. I will start with a very small gain.

[Filterlab]

That should work fine - be careful though! It would be a good idea to fully zero the gain whenever changing sources, regardless of which one you're going from/to.

[Sansiiro]

It would be a good idea to fully zero the gain whenever changing sources, regardless of which one you're going from/to.

Because you think that at some point TV volume might be turned very loud, or because powering on a different source (tv or music) might send a loud "klonk" into poweramp and speakers?
I wont be touching any wires, if that would be the concern.

I think I will try to set optimal gain for music source, and control the TV volume around that, so that I wont need to change the poweramp gain-control very often. I'd rather leave it be.

And of course, I am browsing for a pre-amp.

[Filterlab]

For both reasons you mentioned. You don’t want to be spending on new drive units too!

What is the music source you mention?

[Sansiiro]

It is Onkyo streamer + Denafrips Ares II, none of them have volume control.
Ideally I am looking for a preamp with headphone option and also a remote.

[spendorman]

One of these may save your speakers.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Home-Audio-Amplifier-Bass-RCA-Gain-Level-Volume-Control-Knob-SH/143647460600

[spendorman]

These may be useful for the above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RCA-Phono-Jack-Male-to-Male-Mono-Video-Audio-Adapter-Joiner-Coupler-extender/183570835061

[walpurgis]

One of these may save your speakers.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Home-Audio-Amplifier-Bass-RCA-Gain-Level-Volume-Control-Knob-SH/143647460600

Very effective, cheap too.

[Sansiiro]

One of these may save your speakers.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Home-Audio-Amplifier-Bass-RCA-Gain-Level-Volume-Control-Knob-SH/143647460600

Great. Thanks!

It is worth a shot to try this thing for a short while.

[Edward]

Do check if your TV has digital out. TVs these days often have an optical (Toslink) connection which you can connect to your Onkyo Streamer (optical in). Or connect to your Ares II.(assuming you have some form of attenuation control after your Ares II).

[Sansiiro]

Do check if your TV has digital out. TVs these days often have an optical (Toslink) connection which you can connect to your Onkyo Streamer (optical in). Or connect to your Ares II.(assuming you have some form of attenuation control after your Ares II).

My TV has optical out, but I do not have a convenient attenuation after my Ares II.
That is why I need to use TV-s headphone out, straight into power-amp,
so I can control volume via TV remote.

I could of course use the power-amp gain control for TV volume control, but it will be unconvenient.

I will use power-amp gain control for signal from Ares II, listening to music. -Or this mini-dongle presented here in this forum feed.

[Pharos]

I use the TV's internal volume control, and I bet your set has one, and probably the ability to mute its own speakers.

[Sansiiro]

I use the TV's internal volume control, and I bet your set has one, and probably the ability to mute its own speakers.

TV-s own speakers are surely muted. But I am not sure I could control the volume level of TV's optical output via TV's remote, if that is what you suggest (?).

[spendorman]

My view is that I would always want a mechanical master volume control somewhere. I have tried without one, and mistakes were made. Fortunately, did not blow speakers, but it was an assault on the ears!

[Filterlab]

How about a cheap, quick answer to your issue? £43, job done.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobsound-Little-Bear-MC2-Mini-Fully-balanced-Single-ended-Passive-Preamp-Hi-Fi/224106883074?hash=item342dcfa802:g:-ssAAOSwZp5fMQu8

[walpurgis]

How about a cheap, quick answer to your issue? £43, job done.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobsound-Little-Bear-MC2-Mini-Fully-balanced-Single-ended-Passive-Preamp-Hi-Fi/224106883074?hash=item342dcfa802:g:-ssAAOSwZp5fMQu8

Good little unit, I have one. I would point out though that it features a similar pot to the four quid basic item mentioned by Spendorman earlier. (I also have one of those :)) Both passives work just fine.

[Filterlab]

I didn’t see that one! £4, ten fold bargain.

[spendorman]

I use one between a Quad 303 and Soundblaster soundcard, in to Rogers LS3/6 / Export Monitors.

[Sansiiro]

How about a cheap, quick answer to your issue? £43, job done.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nobsound-Little-Bear-MC2-Mini-Fully-balanced-Single-ended-Passive-Preamp-Hi-Fi/224106883074?hash=item342dcfa802:g:-ssAAOSwZp5fMQu8

Thanks! Another option. However perhaps not for long time. I hear people are warning against cheap pre-amps.
I was thinking in the lines of Schiit Freya or Denafrips Hestia. In a long scheme of things.
As for now I think I will order the 4£ little dongle, test it once my power-amp arrives, with-and-without the dongle, and also with integrated amp's pre-amp function.
After that new decisions.

[Filterlab]

I’d avoid cheap active pre amps, but a passive pre amp is essentially a variable resistor which is very unlikely to do harm anywhere. :)

[Sansiiro]

I’d avoid cheap active pre amps, but a passive pre amp is essentially a variable resistor which is very unlikely to do harm anywhere. :)

That is encouraging. I am led to believe that active preamps are mostly for the vinyl-lovers, since the turntable signal is weak.
And having assumed that adding gain to signal is the most demanding job for the pre-amp, if we can skip that (using digital source),
the source selection and volume control could be done within a reasonable cost.

While believing there are many magnificent active preamps which will improve the sound of ANY source, I will postpone
this purchase into unforseeable future. Of course, I don't own a turntable.

[anthonyTD]

Hi Veiko,
Preamplifiers for Turntable also have the Necessary RIAA components along with the gain needed to drive a line level power amp or passive preamp, a line level preamp can be active or passive, hope this helps.
A...
That is encouraging. I am led to believe that active preamps are mostly for the vinyl-lovers, since the turntable signal is weak.
And having assumed that adding gain to signal is the most demanding job for the pre-amp, if we can skip that (using digital source),
the source selection and volume control could be done within a reasonable cost.

While believing there are many magnificent active preamps which will improve the sound of ANY source, I will postpone
this purchase into unforseeable future. Of course, I don't own a turntable.

[Blackdog]

A cheap preamp will sound better than what you are proposing to do. Whichever source you are not using will adversely affect the other especially when the non-used source is off. The off source will present a low, very non-linear load to the other source as they are in parallel with each other. The result will be significant distortion.
As to why the markings being for Left an Right. These adapters are for making a stereo signal into mono. The are not for connecting two sources into one input.
Get a cheap preamp.

[Lawrence001]

That is encouraging. I am led to believe that active preamps are mostly for the vinyl-lovers, since the turntable signal is weak.
And having assumed that adding gain to signal is the most demanding job for the pre-amp, if we can skip that (using digital source),
the source selection and volume control could be done within a reasonable cost.

While believing there are many magnificent active preamps which will improve the sound of ANY source, I will postpone
this purchase into unforseeable future. Of course, I don't own a turntable.Many digital lovers also prefer active preamps, it's a hot debate as to which sounds better. Both can sound good depending on a number of factors including the input impedance of the power amp and (less so) the output impedance of the source, the ability of the analogue stage of the digital sources to "drive" the power amp (eg those taken direct from the leg of the DAC chip may be too weak), and general synergy. I've seen many people try passives and go back to active preamps.

Personally I like a passive in the right system but unless you get a fancy one with remote volume etc. they are usually rather "hair shirt" in both features and looks.

There's a nice Tisbury Mk2 for sale (my old one) which is a great starter passive and good enough for many in the long run (if you don't get stuck in the rut of comparing it against other passives to see which has more drive or transparency and just leave it in place and enjoy).

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Sansiiro]

A cheap preamp will sound better than what you are proposing to do. Whichever source you are not using will adversely affect the other especially when the non-used source is off. The off source will present a low, very non-linear load to the other source as they are in parallel with each other. The result will be significant distortion.
As to why the markings being for Left an Right. These adapters are for making a stereo signal into mono. The are not for connecting two sources into one input.
Get a cheap preamp.


That is very useful for me to know. I have some time to choose the pre-amp now, until I get more money.

I could not find your post about the Tisbury Mk2, Lawrence. But if my research is correct, it has no remote.
I definately will need a remote, I am also hoping to find one with balanced inputs.

It would be good to also have headphone out, but I have not seen this very much.
That could possibly be substituted with some streamer-dac-headamp-preamp- combo, but that's another case.
I might opt for a separate headphone-amp.

[spendorman]

A cheap preamp will sound better than what you are proposing to do. Whichever source you are not using will adversely affect the other especially when the non-used source is off. The off source will present a low, very non-linear load to the other source as they are in parallel with each other. The result will be significant distortion.
As to why the markings being for Left an Right. These adapters are for making a stereo signal into mono. The are not for connecting two sources into one input.
Get a cheap preamp.

I am not sure about this. The input selector switching should isolate one source from another.

[Sansiiro]

I am not sure about this. The input selector switching should isolate one source from another.

But with these little plugs (see the first post) there would be no input selector.

[spendorman]

But with these little plugs (see the first post) there would be no input selector.

I suspect that it will work in most instances, especially when there is a fairly large series resistor (fairly common) in the output of each source. But ideally input switching, say with a passive switchbox (don't like the term passive preamp) is preferred.

[Sansiiro]

I have found two possible options for a budget preamp:

1) Topping L30 Headamp / preamp - 139 eur.

http://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/511207.html


2) Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 preamp - 238 eur.

https://pro-jectusa.com/product/pre-box-s2-analog/


Topping seems to have some great specs, but the Pro-Ject is one of the very few with a remote.
It also has a fixed out for a headphone amp.
So if I don't find something new, I think this is the way.