View Full Version : The Marco-boy main system, as of August 2020
Some pics of my main system, which I haven't posted any of in a long time. Not the best light conditions unfortunately today, in what is a darkish room normally anyway. I haven't been using this system for nearly two years (mainly due to just being involved with other things), but have recently kicked it into life, so thought I post a few pics!
Ok, first up....
Heavily modified Croft Charisma-X preamp (lid off, as it's always being tweaked:D):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/lg59RX.jpg
Paul Hynes MC head amp is above, all on Mana Acoustics supports.
Some rare NOS 6SL7/VT229 valves, including at the forefront, 1940s military-spec black base RCAs, as used in my phono stage, in professionally tested, closely-matched pairs:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/tlF1Ru.jpg
Mad, hardwired and dedicated, 'Marco Mains' in individual junction boxes (fed from the CU with 16mm armoured cable, outputting massively over-specced heavy-duty mains leads), plus unfused Schukos, with Tube Distinctions noise filter for digital components in the foreground, and MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads fitted with Furutech FI-1363 rhodium plugs:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/iogeGX.jpg
Vintage Sony DAS-R1 DAC, Sony's flagship model from 1987), using the fabled double-crown TDA 1541 multibit chips, heavily modified by Audiocom International, and weighing in at 30kg:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/M9QmJ4.jpg
No other DAC I've heard to date does digital *so right*, and possesses its bass authority or highly addictive 'analog' sound...
Koss PRO-4AA headphones (an updated version of the original classics), which sound fab, but weigh a bloody ton! As used by Radio 1 DJs during the 1970s:D:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/HAifVX.jpg
And my heavily modified Technics SL-1210MK5G - mods and partnering components listed as follows:
Mike New ETP platter and high-precision bearing/base plate, plus Paul Hynes internal regulator modules. Yannis Tome Gaia 423.5 Phono-Litz tonearm cables, Nagaoka GL-602 glass mat, Bruil record weight, Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/Magna Audio custom-made ebony armboard. Arm currently fitted with a NOS (ex-BBC stock) Shure SC35C broadcast cartridge, produced in Evanston USA (not the inferior 'made in Mexico' version) fitted with an original NOS Shure Dynetic Stylus (imported from the US), installed in a high-mass Audio-Technica AT TI-15 50th Anniversary solid-titanium headshell, fitted with Quad Hybrid leadwire and a Mpingo wood cartridge isolator. The T/T has Isonoe feet with Technoboots, and is supported on a Hi-Fi Racks wall shelf:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/ibV93d.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/5jVQTy.jpg
You can see how clean I keep my records, baring in mind that's a 12" single of '19', by Paul Hardcastle, I've had since it was bought new in 1985!:eyebrows:
Close up of arm and cartridge (I have many others, including a DL-103, but this one is a hoot to listen to with 'radio friendly' pop music, which is underpinned with rock-solid weight and authority, coupled with consummate assuredness, detail and clarity, tracking at 4.5g, and also stupidly good for the money with all other types of music:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/OI4Pcb.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/SU6xr0.jpg
And its massively over-engineered, and extremely effective Paul Hynes SR7-EHD power supply (with DC7FS annealed fine-silver DC lead):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/F3O5VP.jpg
Under the hood:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/e9ZfnJ.jpg
Lockwood Major speakers, circa 1967, as used in various recording studios of the day, fitted with Tannoy 15" Monitor Golds:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/v2RCs9.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/2A4i7P.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/7XvMDu.jpg
A Locky with its 'dress off', along with some of my physical music collection:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/hi24s2.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/HmIBQT.jpg
All sounding superb, having been 'woken up' after 2 years of non-use... And after hearing it again, I intend to start using it more!
I'll post pics of my copper valve amp, once I've cleaned all the dust off it, lol! :cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
25-08-2020, 17:44
Nice one Marco, some quality kit there.
I remember your copper amp and its a beaut.
Good to see you back on things hifi .... :D
Cheers, mate, and I'm loving it... It was just a matter of getting my head 'back in the zone'!:D
Are you using an SP10 now? Thought I seen summat about that...
The copper amp is arguably my favourite component and something I would never, ever sell, unless back again to Anthony!
Marco.
rmcin626
25-08-2020, 18:05
Very impressive Marco, with a decent amount of music to play with and I noted the Audio Origami sticker on the turntable.
Cheers, mate. Only as a nod to Johnny, as he and I go back a long way. He's a top bloke and someone who fundamentally understands turntables inside out!:)
I believe he's working in Loud & Clear now? I also know Alan Boyd, the owner there, quite well. It's a proper hi-fi shop, run by knowledgeable and professional staff:cool:
Marco.
DarrenHW
25-08-2020, 19:04
About bloody time, it's been nearly 3 years, we started ripping your Kitchen out November 2017!!
Glad you're firing it up again, I'll have to pop round for a sesh, it might light a fire under my arse.
Hope you're both good.
rmcin626
25-08-2020, 19:04
Cheers, mate. Only as a nod to Johnny, as he and I go back a long way. He's a top bloke and someone who fundamentally understands turntables inside out!:)
I believe he's working in Loud & Clear now? I also know Alan Boyd, the owner there, quite well. It's a proper hi-fi shop, run by knowledgeable and professional staff:cool:
Marco.
I first met Johnny in the mid 80’s when he had his own hi fi store, I bought some stuff from him when I came back to Scotland, these days he mainly works from home, which is interesting if you ever visit, plus he does all the turntable set ups for loud and clear.
Good to see you've still got it. I heard you sold it all and bought a boat :D
DarrenHW
25-08-2020, 19:13
Good to see you've still got it. I heard you sold it all and bought a boat :D
There's a Seaman pun there somewhere, but I'm too distracted eating my dinner to find it.
Looks great .... not quite finished my Berkeleys yet but already the GAS is tugging at me with your Lockwoods .... hoping one day when CV19 is behind us i might get an invite to visit and hear as well as see your gear in action ...
nnnnn nineteen !. Whats happened to the 15xr s ?. All looks very nice :)
Wakefield Turntables
25-08-2020, 20:07
You might want to consider replacing those black base 6SL7's with the superior specification RCA 6591 red base. I had my Croft modded to accept these alongside being backwards compatible with all other 6SL7 variants. There is also another mod with each valve receiving a regulated power supply (a little over my head). Just an idea for you.
About bloody time, it's been nearly 3 years, we started ripping your Kitchen out November 2017!!
Glad you're firing it up again, I'll have to pop round for a sesh, it might light a fire under my arse.
Hope you're both good.
Yo Dazza,
Howzit hangin'? Was going to give you a bell for a catch up, so you've save me the bother!:D
We're both fine - glad to know that you still have a pulse... :eyebrows: Think we were watching a movie together last time just before the world went mad!:eek:
Defo pop round and we'll have a proper catch up. How's the new gaff doing - got it how you want it yet? Any changes to your system since I was there? It was sounding good then:cool:
Marco.
I first met Johnny in the mid 80’s when he had his own hi fi store, I bought some stuff from him when I came back to Scotland, these days he mainly works from home, which is interesting if you ever visit, plus he does all the turntable set ups for loud and clear.
Nice one. I've been to Johnny's place a few times, climbing up that ladder to the 'treasure trove' in his loft!:D
I believe that things have changed somewhat now though! He's certainly one of the industry's good guys:)
Marco.
Good to see you've still got it. I heard you sold it all and bought a boat :D
Yeah, I'd heard folks were whispering, so I thought I'd best put an end to the rumour!:lol:
Marco.
Looks great .... not quite finished my Berkeleys yet but already the GAS is tugging at me with your Lockwoods .... hoping one day when CV19 is behind us i might get an invite to visit and hear as well as see your gear in action ...
Hi Lloyd,
No problem, you'd be more than welcome! What are you doing to your Berkeleys?:)
Marco.
nnnnn nineteen !. Whats happened to the 15xr s ?. All looks very nice :)
Lol - it's music from 'my era', and the production on '19' is superb, with bass that would awaken the dead!:gig:
I've got around 300 12" singles from the 80s, all mint, from the days when I played them in my teenage bedroom, on an Ariston RD11S/Linn LV V, with a Denon DL-103. The rest of the system was a Sondex S230 (with a Lentek MC head amp, as the Sondex only had an MM phono stage), and a pair of Mission 700S speakers, on wall shelves.
Not a bad system for a 17-year old! The girlies seemed to like it, too!;)
The 15XRs reside downstairs in the lounge, and form part of my music/movie/streaming set-up... That wot you've seen here is my dedicated hi-fi/music, on a physical format, room:cool:
Marco.
You might want to consider replacing those black base 6SL7's with the superior specification RCA 6591 red base. I had my Croft modded to accept these alongside being backwards compatible with all other 6SL7 variants. There is also another mod with each valve receiving a regulated power supply (a little over my head). Just an idea for you.
Hi Andy,
Thanks for the tips! If you look, however, at the valve to the left of the two RCAs in question, you'll see the red base... Yes, it's a 6591!
So yes, I know what you mean, they're superb, but I prefer the RCAs on the phono stage. They're not just any old RCAs, btw, but military-spec VT229s - early ones too, found in an ammo box in the States from WW2. I have all the documents. Early valves like that, from the 1940s, usually always sound best, and these ones are superb.
In the Croft I use a mixture of 6SL7s from different manufacturers, all carefully selected in specific positions, so that I obtain the best of their sonic signatures. Trust me, I know what I'm doing;)
Noted on that mod for the Croft, yeah I've heard Glenn mention something about that. There are a few more things I could defo do to mine, but am in no rush to fiddle, as I'm very happy with the sound as it is:cool:
Marco.
Yo Robbie,
Are you using an SP10 now? Thought I seen summat about that...
:wave: :popcorn:
;)
Marco.
Does it really weigh 30kg!
And what has happened to the SPUGTE Marco?
Just under, Barry. I think the last time it was weighed, it rolled in at 28.7kg... It's got multiple MASSIVE PSUs inside (individually regulated), which are large enough to grace most amplifiers! But that's one of the main reasons why it sounds so good.
I'm a great believer in quality (properly implemented) over-specced, fully-regulated, linear PSUs powering almost any piece of hi-fi equipment (digital or analogue), as opposed to something inferior, as for me it always produces the goods:)
The SPU was sold a long time ago, as it was somewhat of a superfluous luxury, and really best suited to jazz and classical music, which it positively excelled with. I need more of an 'all-rounder', so it went for a good price to someone who will appreciate it.
Also, and this doesn't apply to the SPU, but I'm just not really into very expensive MC cartridges, especially modern ones, as to my ears the vast majority of them disappoint and lack 'a certain something' that the best vintage ones deliver in spades, and also dislike the fear of snapping off a cantilever or damaging the stylus, when a replacement would be so expensive!:eek:
I'm much more into using cartridges that sound fantastic for the money (offer high SPPV), especially when sympathetically partnered and meticulously set-up on a good arm and T/T, and which are also relatively 'disposable', should the worst happen... Plus, and this is also key, my ears seem to be attuned to the sound of cartridges used for broadcasting purposes, and that's why I've always stuck with some form of Denon DL-103, and also why this Shure SC35C is hitting the spot.
You won't believe how good I've got this one sounding, having now 'nailed' how it likes being used [no amount of mass is too much mass, well, kind of], and having heard the HUGE difference a NOS Shure stylus makes to the sound of this cartridge. To be brutally honest, the sound I'm getting now from the Shure is arguably better than any SPU I've had, and for a mere fraction of the price... I kid you not!
The sheer 'fun/boogie factor' and rock-solid stability it delivers, in terms of never distorting or breaking up, no matter how demanding the music, the 'physicality' of the bass, beautifully open and fluid midrange and (surprisingly for a conical-tipped MM) sparkly and detailed highs (achieved as a result of the 0.6mm NOS stylus - the newer Shure ones are 0.7mm, which makes all the difference), I've rarely heard from almost ANY cartridge, never mind one that, until it was recently discontinued, sold for £60!!!
However, of course, I've shelled out for a NOS body and three NOS styli, which should see me out, and cost a few quid, but nothing like the investment required for a high-end MC. That said, at some point I would like to try to get an EMT XSD-15 working optimally on my arm, as that ticks the box in terms of having the requisite broadcasting heritage and associated rock-solid 'radio-friendly sound' that I love, so watch this space!:cool:
Marco.
The Black Adder
26-08-2020, 14:15
It's all still looking mega, Marco.
That totally enveloping sound is mega addictive isn't it?
Brilliant stuff.
nice dac that
Churz... The transport (or rather CDP I've turned into a transport) is none to shabby either, lol. I haven't posted any pics, as they came out way too dark. The player is black, with rosewood cheeks and sits right at the bottom of my rack, and yesterday the light was pretty bad, so here are a few pics from the web of ones exactly the same as mine:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Td0Zmw.png
More info here: http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-X777ES.html
And here it is featured as part of a 'stack system':
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/DkBVLK.jpg
:eek::drool::drool:
What a collection of components, eh? Just pant-wettingly gorgeous!! All Sony ES, from the days when they put every ounce of their money and know-how into designing 'cost no object' equipment - and yes my X-777ES, shown third from the bottom, was part of that. I can't imagine what that system would've cost new!
But yes, in conjunction with my DAS-R1 DAC *really* does show what CD can do, and I suspect few have heard.
Marco.
It's all still looking mega, Marco.
That totally enveloping sound is mega addictive isn't it?
Brilliant stuff.
Hi Jo,
Cheers, yup. "Totally enveloping sound" is spot on. And yes, as you know, a big part of that comes from the sheer effortlessness of the copper amp/Lockwoods combo!
But, that's also what this SC35C cartridge is doing on my T/T, and making listening to vinyl more of a joy than ever... You know that feeling when you put on record after record, good recording or bad, and just simply sit back and relax into the music, knowing that the sound will always remain solid and stable and never 'break up'? Well, that's what I'm getting.
And that sense of consummate 'assuredness' just makes you want to rifle through all your records, regardless, rather than selecting ones that you know will sound good, which for me is what it's all about, and not always easily achieved!:cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
26-08-2020, 16:13
Yo Robbie,
:wave: :popcorn:
;)
Marco.
Sorry Marcy boy, been up to mi pretty little neck in work - soz man.
Yeah, SP10, serviced and fine tuned by Angus,
It's a lovely thing. Doesn't have a sound if i am totally honest which is how it should be.
What you get is the perfect platform for which to showcase your cart/system, so neutrality in itself and of course that thing that really matters to you and I which is pin point timing - The music drives along with such great rhythm, pace and timing.
When I have nailed the cart/set up sweet-spot, I can only describe it is as the sheer delight of '*accurate' vinyl replay. *accurate as in the only true sense we can evaluate/determine which is when you here the individuality of each track, album, recording.... when your system resolves what is being played, properly...
That's probably the best way I can put it :)
Nice one. Yeah, I know *exactly* what you mean, as it's fundamentally how any well-sorted direct-drive T/T reproduces music!:)
So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?
We'll need to have a little shoot-out/bake-off when this Covid shite is over!:cool:
Marco.
AJSki2fly
26-08-2020, 17:15
A great looking system Marco, bet it sounds great.
:)
DarrenHW
26-08-2020, 19:09
Yo Dazza,
Howzit hangin'? Was going to give you a bell for a catch up, so you've save me the bother!:D
We're both fine - glad to know that you still have a pulse... :eyebrows: Think we were watching a movie together last time just before the world went mad!:eek:
Defo pop round and we'll have a proper catch up. How's the new gaff doing - got it how you want it yet? Any changes to your system since I was there? It was sounding good then:cool:
Marco.
Hanging?? In this heat it's all generally stuck to the side of my leg! Eff'd up weather aside I'm good thanks.
Apart from the addition of a 4K disc spinner / streamer (which is a considerable step up) the only real change to the system was something you could hear last time you were round. Namely, reattaching the broken solder on a cap to the tweeter, I must have broken it in my rush to get everything in place! It certainly offers an explanation as to why you could hear the balance was off.
Electrical and networking should be sorted in the next couple of weeks, then all I've really got to do is install a screen and wait for the dark nights to roll in.
Nothings happened in the listening room, it's all still in storage, been making the most of the weather, even though I don't really like it.
I'll be in touch.
Wakefield Turntables
26-08-2020, 19:43
Just under, Barry. I think the last time it was weighed, it rolled in at 28.7kg... It's got multiple MASSIVE PSUs inside (individually regulated), which are large enough to grace most amplifiers! But that's one of the main reasons why it sounds so good.
I'm a great believer in quality (properly implemented) over-specced, fully-regulated, linear PSUs powering almost any piece of hi-fi equipment (digital or analogue), as opposed to something inferior, as for me it always produces the goods:)
The SPU was sold a long time ago, as it was somewhat of a superfluous luxury, and really best suited to jazz and classical music, which it positively excelled with. I need more of an 'all-rounder', so it went for a good price to someone who will appreciate it.
Also, and this doesn't apply to the SPU, but I'm just not really into very expensive MC cartridges, especially modern ones, as to my ears the vast majority of them disappoint and lack 'a certain something' that the best vintage ones deliver in spades, and also dislike the fear of snapping off a cantilever or damaging the stylus, when a replacement would be so expensive!:eek:
I'm much more into using cartridges that sound fantastic for the money (offer high SPPV), especially when sympathetically partnered and meticulously set-up on a good arm and T/T, and which are also relatively 'disposable', should the worst happen... Plus, and this is also key, my ears seem to be attuned to the sound of cartridges used for broadcasting purposes, and that's why I've always stuck with some form of Denon DL-103, and also why this Shure SC35C is hitting the spot.
You won't believe how good I've got this one sounding, having now 'nailed' how it likes being used [no amount of mass is too much mass, well, kind of], and having heard the HUGE difference a NOS Shure stylus makes to the sound of this cartridge. To be brutally honest, the sound I'm getting now from the Shure is arguably better than any SPU I've had, and for a mere fraction of the price... I kid you not!
The sheer 'fun/boogie factor' and rock-solid stability it delivers, in terms of never distorting or breaking up, no matter how demanding the music, the 'physicality' of the bass, beautifully open and fluid midrange and (surprisingly for a conical-tipped MM) sparkly and detailed highs (achieved as a result of the 0.6mm NOS stylus - the newer Shure ones are 0.7mm, which makes all the difference), I've rarely heard from almost ANY cartridge, never mind one that, until it was recently discontinued, sold for £60!!!
However, of course, I've shelled out for a NOS body and three NOS styli, which should see me out, and cost a few quid, but nothing like the investment required for a high-end MC. That said, at some point I would like to try to get an EMT XSD-15 working optimally on my arm, as that ticks the box in terms of having the requisite broadcasting heritage and associated rock-solid 'radio-friendly sound' that I love, so watch this space!:cool:
Marco.
Funny your using the SC35C I thought you'd stick with your SPU. Funnily enough I'm in the middle of modding my SC35C with a JICO top end jobbie. I've plonked it into a aluminium body and magnesium headshell. I'm still waiting for a few parts. I'll be trying it out on my 401.
A great looking system Marco, bet it sounds great.
:)
Cheers, mate. It does, but it's taken a long time to get there!:)
Marco.
Hanging?? In this heat it's all generally stuck to the side of my leg! Eff'd up weather aside I'm good thanks.
Apart from the addition of a 4K disc spinner / streamer (which is a considerable step up) the only real change to the system was something you could hear last time you were round. Namely, reattaching the broken solder on a cap to the tweeter, I must have broken it in my rush to get everything in place! It certainly offers an explanation as to why you could hear the balance was off.
Electrical and networking should be sorted in the next couple of weeks, then all I've really got to do is install a screen and wait for the dark nights to roll in.
Nothings happened in the listening room, it's all still in storage, been making the most of the weather, even though I don't really like it.
I'll be in touch.
Lol - are you still finding the weather warm? For me, it's been ok now for well over a week. However, during that hot spell where it was 30C+, that was a killer!:doh:
Which 4K disc spinner have you got? Bet that's made a different with movies, especially with that awesome screen of yours!:)
Glad you sorted your speaker out, although before I left last time everything was sounding pretty good! Btw, what do you mean by installing a screen? You've already got one;)
Yeah, give me a bell when you fancy a seshanto!:cool:
Marco.
Funny your using the SC35C I thought you'd stick with your SPU. Funnily enough I'm in the middle of modding my SC35C with a JICO top end jobbie. I've plonked it into a aluminium body and magnesium headshell. I'm still waiting for a few parts. I'll be trying it out on my 401.
Yeah, lol. I loved the SPU but it was a tad too music genre-dependent for my rather broad music tastes! And I wasn't wanting it to just sit there for when I was playing jazz and classical... Bit of a waste, so I moved it onto a good home:)
I hope the SC35C hits the spot. However, I'm not a fan of the Jico stylus 'upgrade', sorry. Yes, you get more detail, but to my ears at the expense of a rather 'cool', thinner and soulless sound, which is fundamentally against the nature of the Shure and not the sort of sound I like. You might be different.
For me, if you want to remain true to what the SC35C is all about, as a broadcast cartridge, then you need a NOS conical stylus with a nice fat tip, tracking at 4g+... Especially if you want to hear that chunky bass, baby [count me in]! :exactly:
Marco.
Just ordered one of these from the States, for 'tuning' the SC35C: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Turntable_Accessories
It was prompted by reading posts like this on Vinyl Engine and elsewhere (scroll down): https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=41529&start=132
Used for all vinyl replay by the British Broadcasting Corporation from the early seventies until the seedy takeover ousted vinyl, BBC Engineering carried out extensive tests over a period of time on the SC35C before using it, to ensure that it came up to their (at that time) very high standard in terms of sound quality, robustness and low record wear, 'cue burn' in particular. To work properly each channel should be loaded with a capacitance of 450pf, which typically means adding 220pf to the preamp input (both channels). Correctly loaded this cartridge gives very fine sound quality - it is actually the professional version of the esteemed V15. Back in the early eighties we AB tested this against other professional cartridges including the Denon 103 coil and the Shure wiped the floor with all of them! We had a Kisiki Blue moving coil as a reference and there was no audible difference between this and the SC35C, which tracking at near 5 gm would have been kinder to records. Now of course all this was many years ago and today it is a very different story. You can still buy an SC35C but it is a very different animal from the original model from Evanston. I am very fortunate in having 3 USA SC35Cs from the late seventies with a couple of spare original stylii plus a V15IIIHE and the sound of the new Mexico DJ ones is absolutely nowhere near the quality of the broadcast originals. If you want to evaluate one - try and get an original US model, it will have USA printed on the body above the pins. The replacement stylus is a problem - don't go for one with 'Shure' printed in black on the front - it won't be a fake, but the quality will be so different from the earlier USA ones printed in white, sorry to go on at length here, but I am a big fan of these cartridges. Just one last thing - conical stylus playing at 4.5 gm! Shock horror I hear you cry - not a bit of it, much better than 2 gm with an elliptical stylus. I have loads of LPs played hundreds nay thousands of times and none have any trace of wear, in fact that bit of extra weight is ideal for dislodging minute particles of dried spittle which would cause a lighter cartridge to stick and in an EMT 929 arm they sound amazing!
So now I can play around with the loading and see whether that results in an improvement, although there's really nothing I can detect that's wrong with the sound now. Anyway, for $46.00 (plus shipping) it's just a bit of fun!:cool:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/0ic8v5.jpg
Marco.
Yeah I agree. Never seen one before until I saw a link on vinyl engine to the site in question. Optimising loading with both MMs and MCs can really make some carts sing!:)
Marco.
AJSki2fly
27-08-2020, 09:54
Just ordered one of these from the States, for 'tuning' the SC35C: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Turntable_Accessories
It was prompted by reading posts like this on Vinyl Engine and elsewhere (scroll down): https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=41529&start=132
So now I can play around with the loading and see whether that results in an improvement, although there's really nothing I can detect that's wrong with the sound now. Anyway, for $46.00 (plus shipping) it's just a bit of fun!:cool:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/0ic8v5.jpg
Marco.
I will be very interested to hear how you find this. It should be positive, a good friend had issues with a MC cartridge when trying out a phono stage and and also seperate SUT, after some weeks he realised that it was better with a higher capacitance setting.
Hi Adrian,
Yeah, for sure. Don't get me wrong, I can't really detect anything wrong with the sound as it is, indeed the cartridge sounds excellent, but I guess you never know how much better it could be if there exists any latent potential to be exploited.
With vinyl replay, small tweaks can often be very significant!
As soon as it arrives, I'll post a full review:cool:
Marco.
I will be very interested to hear how you find this. It should be positive, a good friend had issues with a MC cartridge when trying out a phono stage and and also seperate SUT, after some weeks he realised that it was better with a higher capacitance setting.
Most moving-coil cartridges are relatively immune to capacitive loading. I only know of a couple of Fidelity Resarch cartridges which need 1.0 - 1.5uF to correct the high frequency lift in their response. Moving coil cartridges are however more suceptable to resistive loading.
This is the converse for fixed-coil cartridges, which are relatively immune to the resistive loading, but can benefit from additional capacitive loading.
Most moving-coil cartridges are relatively immune to capacitive loading. I only know of a couple of Fidelity Resarch cartridges which need 1.0 - 1.5uF to correct the high frequency lift in their response. Moving coil cartridges are however more suceptable to resistive loading.
This is the converse for fixed-coil cartridges, which are relatively immune to the resistive loading, but can benefit from additional capacitive loading.
Did you mean moving magnet, there instead, Barry? If not, I don't get what you mean... Essentially these devices were bought to 'tune' the SC35C, which is a MM, so how receptive are MMs to capacitive loading?:)
Marco.
Yo, Robster...
So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?
When you get a chance.... :popcorn: ;)
Marco.
No - I meant what I wrote.
Moving magnet cartridges (I prefer the term 'fixed-coil' cartridge) are relatively immune to the resistive loading: it doesn't matter much if they are loaded with 39K, 47K, or 68K. They are however susceptable to changes in the capacitive loading, and this will depend on actual cartridge and the inductance of the coils. And that is what your 'tuning' kit does; it allows you to change the capacitance by changing the loading plugs.
Most Shure cartridges have a coil inductance of around 500 to 650mH, and like to 'see' a capacitive loading of around 400 to 500pF. The internal arm wiring and tonearm leads will contribute about 100pF. I don't know what the loading capacitance of Glenn's preamp is, but I'm guessing it's around 120pF, so in total you will have about 220pF, suggesting you need to add 180pF with the loading plugs. You will obviously need to experiment and tune by ear, but no harm will be done if you don't get the loading correct.
my phono stage has a button to select 100, 220, 320 capacitence for any cart, button for resistence too. modern tech :eyebrows:
RobbieGong
27-08-2020, 16:18
Quote Originally Posted by Marco
So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?
Hey Marcy,
Yeah, it's one I was always very curious about, especially having gone the full hog, in terms of heavily modding my 1210, with the best stuf like yourself.
Having spent good time with it, I can honestly say that it is a pretty close thing, which is testimony to how good the 12XX quartz system is and how much you can elevate it sonically with the right mods/upgrades.
I'm a critical listener as yooz know here and having listened to both, hard and proper with pretty much same speakers, amp, cart, etc (save the improved Yannis 423.5Plus tonearm cable over the excellent 423.5),
I can say without bias that the SP10 is better but most definitely not in an immediate and overly, 'wipes the floor with' kind of way.
It just allows the cart/tonearm/system set-up to reveal/ lay bare that bit more infinite recorded / vinyl music info. I guess i'm saying it resolves a bit deeper and better still,
It is subtle but definitely apparent through long listening and sessions getting through lots of music.
My guess is that this is probably largely or at least in good part, down to the extra beefy torqueyness of the SP10 motor system, which is also very silent.
It is industrial almost and a very neutral platform for vinyl replay.
Btw - Plinth is Panzerholtz, Tonearm is Technics EP-250, cart is Cadenza Black with Fritz Gyger S re-tip .... see here https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?68714-Technics-SP10-MKll
No - I meant what I wrote.
Moving magnet cartridges (I prefer the term 'fixed-coil' cartridge) are relatively immune to the resistive loading: it doesn't matter much if they are loaded with 39K, 47K, or 68K. They are however susceptable to changes in the capacitive loading, and this will depend on actual cartridge and the inductance of the coils. And that is what your 'tuning' kit does; it allows you to change the capacitance by changing the loading plugs.
Most Shure cartridges have a coil inductance of around 500 to 650mH, and like to 'see' a capacitive loading of around 400 to 500pF. The internal arm wiring and tonearm leads will contribute about 100pF. I don't know what the loading capacitance of Glenn's preamp is, but I'm guessing it's around 120pF, so in total you will have about 220pF, suggesting you need to add 180pF with the loading plugs. You will obviously need to experiment and tune by ear, but no harm will be done if you don't get the loading correct.
Very helpful, Barry, thanks. Just wanted to clarify what you were saying:)
So... Best to start with the 'Green' plugs then (from the stated list): https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Turntable_Accessories
What effect, sonically, would you expect adding more capacitance to give?
Marco.
Quote Originally Posted by Marco
So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?
Hey Marcy,
Yeah, it's one I was always very curious about, especially having gone the full hog, in terms of heavily modding my 1210, with the best stuf like yourself.
Having spent good time with it, I can honestly say that it is a pretty close thing, which is testimony to how good the 12XX quartz system is and how much you can elevate it sonically with the right mods/upgrades.
I'm a critical listener as yooz know here and having listened to both, hard and proper with pretty much same speakers, amp, cart, etc (save the improved Yannis 423.5Plus tonearm cable over the excellent 423.5),
I can say without bias that the SP10 is better but most definitely not in an immediate and overly, wipes the floor with kind of way.
It just allows the cart/tonearm/system set-up to reveal/ lay bare that bit more infinite recording / music info. I guess i'm saying it resolves a bit deeper and better still,
It is subtle but definitely apparent through long listening and sessions getting through lots of music.
My guess is that this is probably largely or at least in good part, down to the extra beefy torqueyness of the SP10 motor system, which is also very silent.
It is industrial almost and a very neutral platform for vinyl replay.
Nice one, Rob. That makes perfect sense to me:)
I always said that the goal, for anyone serious about modding the 1210, was to get it as close as possible to sounding like an SP10, by addressing all relevant areas of weakness, and which is exactly why you did what you did with yours, and me the same!
In effect, what you then end up with is a 'neutral platform', simply hearing the sonic signature of the arm and cartridge. Have you had your SP10 serviced? For me, that would be mandatory, so that I knew that it was performing to spec, exactly the same as it did when it left the factory, and therefore capable of performing at 100% of its capability.
As you know, the SP10 is full of electronic circuitry, filled with loads of capacitors, and after nearly 50 years, a lot, if not all of them will have drifted, so if you haven't had it serviced (by someone who genuinely knows what they're doing, and has the necessary equipment), you've probably still got more to come!:cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
27-08-2020, 16:53
Nice one, Rob. That makes perfect sense to me:)
I always said that the goal, for anyone serious about modding the 1210, was to get it as close as possible to sounding like an SP10, by addressing all relevant areas of weakness, and which is exactly why you did what you did, and me the same!
In effect, what you then end up with is a 'neutral platform', simply hearing the sonic signature of the arm and cartridge. Have you had your SP10 serviced? For me, that would be mandatory, so that I knew that it was performing to spec, exactly the same as it did when it left the factory, and therefore capable of performing at 100% of its capability.
As you know, the SP10 is full of electronic circuitry, filled with loads of capacitors, and after nearly 50 years, a lot, if not all of them will have drifted, so if you haven't had it serviced (by someone who genuinely knows what they're doing, and has the necessary equipment, you've probably still got more to come!:cool:
Marco.
Bang on Marco,
The 12XX when modded how we have is a cracking turntable ! hence having had my jaw drop on enough occasions with mine, I was v curious to see how it would stand up against the SP10 and as I say, there's no floor wiping difference as some would like to believe.
Mine was fully serviced and fine tuned by Angus. He produced the plinth too and sorted and mounted both the motor and tonearm.
I can only refer you to some measured (as distinct from calculated) results, for a typical Shure cartridge:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/gif/shure_m97xe_hf_response.gif
The idea is that any cartridge will have a treble resonance due to stylus tip mass and the high-frequency compliance value (never quoted by cartridge manufacurers) of the suspension. This mechanical resonance is tamed and reduced by a complementary electrical loading.
In general it is trade-off between a flat but curtailed frequency response, and a sagging but extended frequency response.
I could refer you to some 34 pages on the vinylengine forum, but there is as much dogmatic and muddled thinking expressed there as there is sensible advice.
Just use your ears: no harm will be done if the loading is wrong.
DarrenHW
27-08-2020, 17:15
Lol - are you still finding the weather warm? For me, it's been ok now for well over a week. However, during that hot spell where it was 30C+, that was a killer!:doh:
Which 4K disc spinner have you got? Bet that's made a different with movies, especially with that awesome screen of yours!:)
Glad you sorted your speaker out, although before I left last time everything was sounding pretty good! Btw, what do you mean by installing a screen? You've already got one;)
Yeah, give me a bell when you fancy a seshanto!:cool:
Marco.
For a pasty southern softy like me, it's too hot once it passes 20C, even the couple of hours of sun we had yesterday tried to break me!
I picked up a Panasonic DP-UB820EB back in April and apart from the fact that it has an interface that would have felt outdated in 2010 I'm very happy with it.
This is the screen I'm going to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/Screens-SB120WH2-120-Inch-Theatre-Projector/dp/B00Y7XA2OA?ref_=ast_slp_dp when you came round it was, and still is projected straight onto the wall.
I need to order some Monoprice HDMI's to compare against the Audioquest cables I'm currently using and I'm calling the Home Cinema done for the foreseeable.
I'm quite happy with it now, but I'm hoping for a significant cumulative benefit of Mains, Screen & HDMI.
I'm a bit gutted you've sold the SPU, I bloody loved that in your system, hands down the best vinyl replay I've heard. I know what you're saying though and personally I'd never drop that sort of money on a cart, especially considering my clumsy nature!
I'm a bit gutted you've sold the SPU, I bloody loved that in your system, hands down the best vinyl replay I've heard.
I was surprised to learn Marco had long sold his SPU. I wish I had known at the time - I would have bought it!
DarrenHW
27-08-2020, 17:22
It was something else, bit of a double edged sword, I'm glad I heard it but I sort of wish I hadn't as my TT will never reach those levels.
my phono stage has a button to select 100, 220, 320 capacitence for any cart, button for resistence too. modern tech :eyebrows:
Yesh I know you like preshing buttonsh - usually belly onesh!:D
Marco.
Bang on Marco,
The 12XX when modded how we have is a cracking turntable ! hence having had my jaw drop on enough occasions with mine, I was v curious to see how it would stand up against the SP10 and as I say, there's no floor wiping difference as some would like to believe.
Mine was fully serviced and fine tuned by Angus. He produced the plinth too and sorted and mounted both the motor and tonearm.
Good stuff, Rob. Having a 'sorted' one makes a big difference. It's the reason why I didn't go for an SP10, as at the time I didn't know anyone who serviced them, and I wouldn't have been happy using such a complicated, heavily electronic device that I new wouldn't be performing at its maximum potential.
Therefore, I decided to embark on a journey of achieving 'SP10 performance' with a heavily-modded SL-1210, which would then give me the best of both worlds, having similar sonic performance, but housed within modern circuitry:)
I have compared my T/T a few times against SP10s, and still preferred mine, *but* they all had different plinths, arms and cartridges to yours, so as you know there are too many variables to come to any concrete conclusions, although if we do get the chance at some point, it would be fun to have a wee bakeoff!:cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
27-08-2020, 19:00
Good stuff, Rob. Having a 'sorted' one makes a big difference. It's the reason why I didn't go for an SP10, as at the time I didn't know anyone who serviced them, and I wouldn't have been happy using such a complicated, heavily electronic device that I new wouldn't be performing at its maximum potential.
Therefore, I decided to embark on a journey of achieving 'SP10 performance' with a heavily-modded SL-1210, which would then give me the best of both worlds, having the sonic performance of an SP10, but contained within modern circuitry:)
I have compared my T/T a few times against SP10s, and still preferred mine, *but* they all had different plinths, arms and cartridges to yours, so as you know there are too many different variables to come to any concrete conclusions, although if we do get the chance at some point, it would be fun to have a wee bakeoff!:cool:
Marco.
:)
I can only refer you to some measured (as distinct from calculated) results, for a typical Shure cartridge:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/gif/shure_m97xe_hf_response.gif
The idea is that any cartridge will have a treble resonance due to stylus tip mass and the high-frequency compliance value (never quoted by cartridge manufacurers) of the suspension. This mechanical resonance is tamed and reduced by a complementary electrical loading.
In general it is trade-off between a flat but curtailed frequency response, and a sagging but extended frequency response.
I could refer you to some 34 pages on the vinylengine forum, but there is as much dogmatic and muddled thinking expressed there as there is sensible advice.
Just use your ears: no harm will be done if the loading is wrong.
Thanks, Barry... I see what you mean, so it's kind of about 'taming' some brightness, if any were present, as a result of what you've described. I'm not really getting that, but it'll be interesting to see what effect the loading plugs have:)
Marco.
For a pasty southern softy like me, it's too hot once it passes 20C, even the couple of hours of sun we had yesterday tried to break me!
I picked up a Panasonic DP-UB820EB back in April and apart from the fact that it has an interface that would have felt outdated in 2010 I'm very happy with it.
This is the screen I'm going to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/Screens-SB120WH2-120-Inch-Theatre-Projector/dp/B00Y7XA2OA?ref_=ast_slp_dp when you came round it was, and still is projected straight onto the wall.
I need to order some Monoprice HDMI's to compare against the Audioquest cables I'm currently using and I'm calling the Home Cinema done for the foreseeable.
I'm quite happy with it now, but I'm hoping for a significant cumulative benefit of Mains, Screen & HDMI.
I'm a bit gutted you've sold the SPU, I bloody loved that in your system, hands down the best vinyl replay I've heard. I know what you're saying though and personally I'd never drop that sort of money on a cart, especially considering my clumsy nature!
Ah ok, yes I remember you just projected the image (film) onto the wall, but it still looked great! i think you'll like the Monoprice stuff. For me, the resolution is superb, but your set up is much more revealing of such than mine, so will be interested in your findings:)
Defo give me a shout when you get your new screen up and running, and we'll have another movie night!.
Lol - didn't realise you liked the SPU that much! Did you hear it after you'd fitted my wall shelf? I'm trying to recall when it was you'd have heard it last. But yes, I'm really enjoying the Shure and also my various 103s, which I intend on adding something special to soon, something I've been wanting for a while, so watch this space on that one!;)
I've also recently been sent a very interesting little device, which is a veritable game changer, and *trust me* transforms vinyl replay as we know it, by fundamentally and successfully addressing a weakness in virtually every turntable and arm on the planet!!:eyebrows:
More on that to come soon......
Marco.
I was surprised to learn Marco had long sold his SPU. I wish I had known at the time - I would have bought it!
If I'd known you were interested, I'd have given you first refusal. It was a nice old thing that really showed up what is wrong with the 'voicing' of the majority of modern MC cartridges.
Marco.
DarrenHW
27-08-2020, 20:00
've also recently been sent a very interesting little device, which is a veritable game changer, and *trust me* transforms vinyl replay as we know it, by fundamentally and successfully addressing a weakness in virtually every turntable and arm on the planet!!:eyebrows:
More on that to come soon......
You big tease!!
Lol - I don't think you'd be able to guess what it is!:D
Marco.
Lol, no... Defo not.
Marco.
A phono stage ?
Niento... Think 'acceessory';)
Marco.
Don't you just hate 'teaser' posts? :rolleyes:
Frazeur1
27-08-2020, 23:28
Oh I bet it is one of those fancy shmancy grounding boxes! :)
Pigmy Pony
28-08-2020, 06:20
So, you've bought yourself a stereo, very nice!
Love those speakers, and having a loo in between them will certainly come in handy, when the bass turns your bowels to water :) Cool music collection too
Slight digression, but what's happening with the door's architrave? Your mitre saw still not turned up? I'll lend you mine :D
Discopants
28-08-2020, 07:48
Is it a SR PHT ?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Is it a SR PHT ?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
is that those little coloured things that sit on the headshell?
Oh I bet it is one of those fancy shmancy grounding boxes! :)
Nope.... :D
Marco.
So, you've bought yourself a stereo, very nice!
Love those speakers, and having a loo in between them will certainly come in handy, when the bass turns your bowels to water :) Cool music collection too
Slight digression, but what's happening with the door's architrave? Your mitre saw still not turned up? I'll lend you mine :D
Ha - you're referring to 'Tabatha's Dungeon'.... Yesh, you'll find out one day if you visit, but can't say any more now!:eyebrows:
So you like me 'ol wardrobes?:D I'm rather fond of them, too.
Lol... The architrave is original - just the way it was done in 1887, when the house was built. All the doors are the same. If you scroll up and look at the ceiling, you'll see the beams and how the ceiling is sloped and angled (same at the other end of the room), which helps break up reflections and improves acoustics.
Unlike many rooms, it's not a 'rectangular box'!:)
Marco.
is that those little coloured things that sit on the headshell?
If that's what those are, then Martin's getting closer, but still no cigar!;)
Marco.
Beobloke
28-08-2020, 10:59
If that's what those are, then Martin's getting closer, but still no cigar!;)
Marco.
It's not one of those daft cartridge isolation washer things is it? The ones that usually completely screw up the cartridge's behaviour!
Closer but not what you're thinking... And btw, I've used a number of the isolators you're referring to and they work really well, especially if you want to add some mass!:)
This, for example, works really well with a DL-103: http://www.cabezon.eu/prestashop/home/114-isokinetik-graphite-cartridge-stabiliser-for-all-tonearms-a-must-have-upgrade.html
Marco.
Closer but not what you're thinking... And btw, I've used a number of the isolators you're referring to and they work really well, especially if you want to add some mass!:)
This, for example, works really well with a DL-103: http://www.cabezon.eu/prestashop/home/114-isokinetik-graphite-cartridge-stabiliser-for-all-tonearms-a-must-have-upgrade.html
I have used one with a Denon 103. It worked, but I preferred to use a thick lead shim to add weight. The shim was thinner than the graphite one, so didn't require the arm to be raised too much.
Yeah, whatever works, works:)
However, I do like using something in that application that does more than just adds mass, but also a layer of isolation/vibration absorption.
In that respect, until I reveal exactly what this remarkable little device is, I'd ask everyone to have a think about the notion of decoupling... Should a cartridge be decoupled from the partnering arm, in terms of employing the use of some form of isolating device, or are you of a view that it should be securely coupled to its headshell?
I know my thoughts on the matter, which I shall reveal shortly, but would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others:cool:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
28-08-2020, 17:49
Yeah, whatever works, works:)
However, I do like using something in that application that does more than just adds mass, but also a layer of isolation/vibration absorption.
In that respect, until I reveal exactly what this remarkable little device is, I'd ask everyone to have a think about the notion of decoupling... Should a cartridge be decoupled from the partnering arm, in terms of employing the use of some form of isolating device, or are you of a view that it should be securely coupled to its headshell?
I know my thoughts on the matter, which I shall reveal shortly, but would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others:cool:
Marco.
Decoupling the cartridge from the tonearm makes sense. Decoupling the cart from the tonearm and then the tonearm from the deck makes better sense.
Only a very tiny proportion of the mechanical power supplied by the record groove is converted into an electrical audio signal. The remainder has to go somewhere. If it is not absorbed within the cartridge, it will either be reflected back or transmitted into the arm. If transmitted, it can either be absorbed in the arm, or conducted through to the turntable where it will be absorbed by the turntable mass.
I haven't tried The Cartridge Man's foam isolator, but have doubts over its efficacy. Given the price I'm not encouraged to try it.
Only a very tiny proportion of the mechanical power supplied by the record groove is converted into an electrical audio signal. The remainder has to go somewhere. If it is not absorbed within the cartridge, it will either be reflected back or transmitted into the arm. If transmitted, it can either be absorbed in the arm, or conducted through to the turntable where it will be absorbed by the turntable mass.
I haven't tried The Cartridge Man's foam isolator, but have doubts over its efficacy. Given the price I'm not encouraged to try it.
Now we're getting somewhere... But it isn't *that* one; it's something else that's been much more judiciously (and scientifically) designed - and works way, WAY better!
What if a device had been invented that virtually eliminated the effect you describe and rendered it a non-issue, thus allowing the arm and cartridge to work truly symbiotically, unhindered by said effect - how much better might the music reproduced sound?;)
Marco.
RobbieGong
28-08-2020, 19:57
Now we're getting somewhere... But it isn't *that* one; it's something else that's been much more judiciously (and scientifically) designed - and works way, WAY better!
What if a device had been invented that virtually eliminated the effect you describe and rendered it a non-issue, thus allowing the arm and cartridge to work truly symbiotically, unhindered by said effect - how much better might the music reproduced sound?;)
Marco.
Sounds bloody fab! NOW TELL US WHAT IT IS !! :rolleyes: :D
Idlewithnodrive
28-08-2020, 20:23
Closer but not what you're thinking... And btw, I've used a number of the isolators you're referring to and they work really well, especially if you want to add some mass!:)
Marco.
Ah, so we're just going to be talking foo then ��
Sounds bloody fab! NOW TELL US WHAT IT IS !! :rolleyes: :D
Lol.... Ok! Here you go, it's from the one and only AK:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/ozndh3.png
Fitted to someone else's T/T:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/mBcxIb.jpg
I've been evaluating one on my turntable (and arm/cartridge) for over a week, and *TRUST ME* mate [you know what I'm like with 'amazing new discoveries'], this little thing is set to revolutionise vinyl replay! :trust:
Shocked and stunned at just how (laughably) GOOD this is. OH bloody hell, Arthur has really nailed it this time. 'Houdini' is set to veritably put the cat amongst the pigeons....!:D
Look out for a full review with pics (on a separate thread) soon!!
Marco.
Ah, so we're just going to be talking foo then ��
Nope, not "foo" - something that has been designed on proper scientific principles, and which genuinely works by fundamentally solving a REAL problem!
Marco.
Idlewithnodrive
28-08-2020, 20:35
£300 though ? Hmm ! :scratch:
Wakefield Turntables
28-08-2020, 20:39
My first thoughts.
1. Three hundred fucking quid!
2. 6mm is going to fuck up my VTA.
I'll await the review.
Idlewithnodrive
28-08-2020, 20:43
My first thoughts.
2. 6mm is going to fuck up everybody's VTA.
ftfy
£300 though ? Hmm ! :scratch:
Yes indeed, but when you hear what it does, in terms of removing a music-killing 'artifice'/distortion, which previously unbeknown to you has superimposed itself onto the sound of EVERY record you've played until now, and the, frankly quite incredible, difference it makes to the sound and subsequently the enjoyment of your music/record collection - and in turn transforms the performance of even the most humble tonearm (such as an RB250), genuinely allowing it to compete with the very best, used without the Houdini [thus levelling the playing field in the process], it's a no-brainer BILLY BARGAIN!
Jeez - some folks spend more on 'foo' cartridge leads or fancy fuses!!;) And you get a full refund if you're not 100% delighted, although honestly, one you've fitted one it *won't* be going anywhere...:eyebrows:
Honestly dudes, this *is* a veritable game changer and is set to send ripples throughout the whole of the hi-fi industry, and you heard about it FIRST here on AoS!:cool:
Marco.
My first thoughts.
1. Three hundred fucking quid!
2. 6mm is going to fuck up my VTA.
I'll await the review.
What's the big deal? You just re-adjust it accordingly [the same as you'd do with, say, a thicker or thinner mat] and enjoy!:)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
28-08-2020, 20:53
What's the big deal? You just readjust it accordingly and enjoy!:)
Marco.
Yes I know, I've spent bloody ages getting the VTA correct for my new modded Cadenza Black, I don't really want to spend another week of my life having to do that again. Secondly this thing aint gonna work on my 301 which uses SPU's only.
RobbieGong
28-08-2020, 20:58
Yes I know, I've spent bloody ages getting the VTA correct for my new modded Cadenza Black, I don't really want to spend another week of my life having to do that again. Secondly this thing aint gonna work on my 301 which uses SPU's only.
You sound me and i know totally where you're coming from.
Setting vta and nailing the set-up sweet spot with certain stylus profiles is an absolute PITA, can take what feels like an age to nail, fatiguing and once you've hit it the very last thing you want to do is go again, trust me on that, been there too many times. You'll only know the pain if you've been there, it's a total jar :(
Well, fair enough. It'll work in applications were it's possible to work. But really it shouldn't take 'ages' to get your VTA spot-on. I did it in about an hour!
But then, I don't use cartridges with fussy fine-line styli!:ner:;)
Marco.
RobbieGong
28-08-2020, 21:05
Well, fair enough. It'll work in applications were it's possible to work. But really it shouldn't take 'ages' to get your VTA spot-on. I did it in about an hour!
But then, I don't use cartridges with fussy fine-line styli!:ner:;)
Marco.
:lol: and to be honest i kind of dont blame you or anyone else, they are generally a &hi7 to nail and only sound amazing and right when they are so you're stuffed til you hit it, no matter how many hours, weeks it might take, not to mention the bloody fatigue !
Wakefield Turntables
28-08-2020, 21:07
Well, fair enough. It'll work in applications were it's possible to work. But really it shouldn't take 'ages' to get your VTA spot-on. I did it in about an hour!
But then, I don't use cartridges with fussy fine-line styli!:ner:;)
Marco.
Herrummppphhhhhh! Trust me this is meant in the best possible way, :upyours:
RobbieGong
28-08-2020, 21:10
Herrummppphhhhhh! Trust me this is meant in the best possible way, :upyours:
:lol:
You sound me and i know totally where you're coming from.
Setting vta and nailing the set-up sweet spot with certain stylus profiles is an absolute PITA, can take what feels like an age to nail, fatiguing and once you've hit it the very last thing you want to do is go again, trust me on that, been there too many times. You'll only know the pain if you've been there, it's a total jar :(
Oh, don't worry dude, I've been there. It's the reason why I sold my [then] top-of-the-range, replicant stylus-equipped SPU Royal GM MKII, for a 1958 vintage SPU G/T, with a nice fat conical tip, and which to my ears, wiped the floor with the former, using any musical sound-related parameter you care to think of!
That SPU took forever to 'dial in', in terms of optimal VTA, and even when you thought you'd nailed it, it still got caught out occasionally with 'difficult' material, and distorted!:doh:
Anyway, that's another matter... The point here is, for anyone who is willing to put in the required effort when installing this little device, the REWARDS will be very significant, and it will put a big CHEESY GRIN on the chops of even the most resolutely grumpy fucker!!:lol::D
Marco.
Herrummppphhhhhh! Trust me this is meant in the best possible way, :upyours:
Hahaha... :sorry:
Just tellin' it as it is! As they say: the best and most worthwhile things in life never come easy, and in my opinion this is, hands down, one of the most worthwhile things you could do to improve your enjoyment of vinyl-reproduced music...:)
Fit one, and quite simply hear your record collection like never before. Yes, that's an old saying, but this time it's true!
Marco.
Idlewithnodrive
28-08-2020, 21:59
Does it make your wife come in and comment on the veils being lifted and the inky blacks, even though she was in the room next door ?
If not, not interested.
Better - she came in and moaned about the smell from the sweaty musicians!:D
Marco.
Lol.... Ok! Here you go, it's from the one and only AK:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/ozndh3.png
Fitted to someone else's T/T:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/mBcxIb.jpg
I've been evaluating one on my turntable (and arm/cartridge) for over a week, and *TRUST ME* mate [you know what I'm like with 'amazing new discoveries'], this little thing is set to revolutionise vinyl replay! :trust:
Shocked and stunned at just how (laughably) GOOD this is. OH bloody hell, Arthur has really nailed it this time. 'Houdini' is set to veritably put the cat amongst the pigeons....!:D
Look out for a full review with pics (on a separate thread) soon!!
Marco.
Apparently it is £300.
Indeed. Kev, you've just got to get one - it's *that* good!:)
Especially as you're a confirmed Funk fan...
Marco.
Discopants
29-08-2020, 00:42
Its great when you find a system tweak that makes really significant gains. Congratulations
I’m a firm believer in isolation of components and control of vibrations and I can imagine turn tables having a lot of opportunities to improve things in that regard (but no real direct experience here as I’m a streaming guy)
If you find £300 expensive but want to try cheaper alternatives you can buy a vibration absorbing material from Japan called fo.q they do a 0.5mm thick pack of 2 sheets about A5 sized for about £35 on ebay UK. You could use it throughout your entire system to very good effect but tone arm , headshell and on the cartridge are supposed to respond very well to it. The headshell is very sensitive and needs fine tuning with amount of material.
They also sell a pack for £150 where you get a 1mm and 2mm turntable mat of the same material and you can stack mats if that works for you and a small amount of 0.5mm tape for the tone arm components, that gets good reviews.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Indeed. Kev, you've just got to get one - it's *that* good!:)
Especially as you're a confirmed Funk fan...
Marco.
I don’t have any high end cartridges, so £300 is almost the price of what I am using.
My current cartridge (Cartridge Man Music Maker) already has something.
My other cartridges could well benefit from one, but the next purchase was going to be an ART-9, then COVID-19 reared it’s head and I decided to be sensible and stop spending money on non-essentials as job security is not 100%.
It may be a couple of years before I go back to my usual spending habits.
Its great when you find a system tweak that makes really significant gains. Congratulations
I’m a firm believer in isolation of components and control of vibrations and I can imagine turn tables having a lot of opportunities to improve things in that regard (but no real direct experience here as I’m a streaming guy)
If you find £300 expensive but want to try cheaper alternatives you can buy a vibration absorbing material from Japan called fo.q they do a 0.5mm thick pack of 2 sheets about A5 sized for about £35 on ebay UK. You could use it throughout your entire system to very good effect but tone arm , headshell and on the cartridge are supposed to respond very well to it. The headshell is very sensitive and needs fine tuning with amount of material.
They also sell a pack for £150 where you get a 1mm and 2mm turntable mat of the same material and you can stack mats if that works for you and a small amount of 0.5mm tape for the tone arm components, that gets good reviews.
Cheers, Martin. Good advice there. Most systems/components don't have enough damping, IME, and the ingress of vibration, hobbling music signals, is one of the biggest enemies towards getting a great sound!
Btw, in terms of turntable mats, aside of course from Funk's Achromat, which is excellent, I've been getting superb results with this one from Soundeck: https://soundeck.bigcartel.com/product/soundeck-aluminium-black
It's so good, it's ousted my (already excellent), and much more expensive, Nagaoka glass mat - it just offers better damping/isolation I think, and consequently allows more information to be retrieved from the grooves. I intend on doing a separate review of it soon!:cool:
Marco.
I don’t have any high end cartridges, so £300 is almost the price of what I am using.
My current cartridge (Cartridge Man Music Maker) already has something.
My other cartridges could well benefit from one, but the next purchase was going to be an ART-9, then COVID-19 reared it’s head and I decided to be sensible and stop spending money on non-essentials as job security is not 100%.
It may be a couple of years before I go back to my usual spending habits.
No worries, Kevin. Sensible move, considering the circumstances, and I hope your job is secure.
The point being though that you don't need a 'hi-end cartridge' to use the Houdini. I don't have a hi-end cartridge either, the 'highest end' one being a DL-103. The point is that fitting the Houdini allows even the most modest (but well-designed, good quality) cartridge and arm to perform like something MUCH more expensive - and it DOES!:)
Honestly, I'd comfortably put the 'lowly' Shure MM I'm currently using [fitted with the Houdini] against ANY cartridge up to £1000, and would be confident of it holding its own - no joke... I know exactly what I'm hearing, and the sort of performance this little device is delivering in that respect, in terms of allowing the music to shine.
Quite simply, once you've heard it, there's NO going back - as going back just guarantees a worse sound! :exactly:
Marco.
I shall have to drop AK a little note...
I would, seriously... If there's only one thing you buy this year for your system, or turntable, make it a Houdini. Honestly, you'll thank me for the head's up!:)
Marco.
Since I've revisited the system (and turntable), I've been playing around with some of the record clamps and weights I've got, and rediscovered something that I used to find very effective, in terms of damping any vibration on both the record and spindle: SRM-Tech 'The Revolution'....
Details here: http://srm-tech.co.uk/epages/4c008923-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/4c008923-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028/Products/RSC
And 'in action':
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/tJz525.jpg
For less than £30, this really is quite a remarkable little device! More folks should be using them, as they are extremely effective, creating a much lower noise-floor, during playback of all vinyl records, plus reduced groove noise with subjectively lower distortion, which subsequently reveals significantly more musical information.
Its 'clamping effect' is achieved via the tacky/slightly sticky nature of the Sorbothane base material 'sucking up' the record when pressed down onto the label, so that records can't 'slip' during playback, plus it dampens any vibrations both in the record itself during playback, and also importantly on the spindle - and is forming a brilliant partnership with the Soundeck PM Black T/T mat. The cumulative effect is simply more music!
Aesthetically, I think it also suits the look of the turntable:)
A highly recommended T/T mat/record clamp combo, forming an effective damping/vibration killing solution [plus the use of a handy little levelling bubble], for less than £120!:cool:
Record shown: Mo-Fi Ltd Edition 45RPM Original Master Recording of "Kind of Blue' by Miles Davis.
Marco.
ah the revolution.. i had one of those on my srm deck.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img841/4740/2ondf.jpg
Nice, mate. You should've kept it (and the T/T, lol)! How did it sound?:)
For me, they're one of those manufacturers that offer high SPPV.
Marco.
Nice, mate. You should've kept it (and the T/T, lol)! How did it sound?:)
For me, they're one of those manufacturers that offer high SPPV.
Marco.
was a good deck.. a member here has it now for a number of years. the clamp was quite good. clever system. worked on most records but not all. they wear at the hole(old ones) but thats the way with old holes :eyebrows:
Especially ones that have been poked too often!:D
Yeah, I'd liked to have heard that deck, don't think I did?
Have you still got a T/T, btw?:)
Marco.
Especially ones that have been poked too often!:D
Yeah, I'd liked to have heard that deck, don't think I did?
Have you still got a T/T, btw?:)
Marco.
it should be getting picked up this week, all going well.. so yes and no :D
You'll regret it.... Is all your vinyl sold, too?
Marco.
You'll regret it.... Is all your vinyl sold, too?
Marco.
no ive a swathe to sell off.. probably cheaply in a oner.. or they will just get stored. im not able to pack and post all those now.. about 280 i think left.
only selling as i cant really use it now
no ive a swathe to sell off.. probably cheaply in a oner.
Okies... Please give me first refusal, as I'm back 'in the zone' now, so could very well be interested, as long as it's not all Diana Krall [and other equally dreary 'female crooners', singing even drearier ballads!:D
If it's good blues, rock, jazz, dat kinda thing, I'll be in:cool:
Marco.
a bit of everything. blues, films, jazz and some rock i guess.. plenty other stuff you may not like or may.. meridian is decent to make a profit on tbh, as most will be in the n mint range i guess. sell what you dont want.. i could make a lot if i was up to it. lol im in no rush tho
Sounds cool... Just let me know when you're ready:cool:
Marco.
The Black Adder
30-08-2020, 15:12
My copper is still doing the business. Also, I must say, after a while of not being used due to lock down, the turntable has changed things an awful lot.
The DL-103 C1 is sounding amazing with the Lentek.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/c041ab647806fd56e7ba4dc565128e64.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/0111e109282b54defd2c19c1ae5b0d3f.jpg
Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
Looking great, Jo! I still need to clean my amp - just haven't had time recently... Two years of dust on it, lol - It's shameful, I know!:eyebrows:
I'll be doing it this week though, so will post a pic then...
Would love to see some close-up pics of your T/T, and particularly cartridge 'in the groove'... And also of the Lentek. Glad they're hitting the spot nicely!:)
I may be adding something special (vintage) to my 103 line up next week, so watch this space!;)
Marco.
P.S Your next big upgrade matey [and I'm serious about this] is a Houdini. Honestly, you'd love it... Have I ever been wrong with any of my reccos to you so far?:D
RobbieGong
30-08-2020, 16:45
My copper is still doing the business. Also, I must say, after a while of not being used due to lock down, the turntable has changed things an awful lot.
The DL-103 C1 is sounding amazing with the Lentek.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/c041ab647806fd56e7ba4dc565128e64.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/0111e109282b54defd2c19c1ae5b0d3f.jpg
Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
Sweeett !! :thumbsup:
Just fitted the Houdini to my solid-magnesium AT headshell and Shure SC35C (I had previously been evaluating it in a different headshell with my Denon DL-103):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/rT7cWH.jpg
Same [rather dramatic and significant] sonic improvement: lower noise-floor, less distortion, superior information retrieval, much clearer, detailed and MORE LIFELIKE sound [mainly due to subtle nuances in the music being made more apparent/given more intelligibility], thus rendering both instruments and voices as more convincing and realistic.
Overall, just MORE music!:cool:
Come on guys, get your orders in!:D
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
30-08-2020, 17:11
I might be tempted to have a go at all of this. It all very much depends upon how much money I'm going to be spending in Holland!! I have some carts and a new PSU to pay for.
Sweeett !! :thumbsup:
Robster, you need to get yourself a Houdini. Trust me, it'll do the same trick in your set up as it has in mine - and if you *really* want to hear what that CB can do!;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
30-08-2020, 17:16
Marco,
Just a thought. Have you considered loosing the plastic outer casing to the SC35C? Many people claim this rings like a bell. I've done a similar experiment with my USA M55e and it worked a treat.
Yes, lol! That's my next upgrade: an aluminium body. Going to use this chap in the States: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Phono-Cartridge-body-for-Shure-SC35C-but-will-work-on-countless-others/182245529410
I've no doubt it'll be as successful as what many have done with the DL-103...
Glad you're considering a Houdini. I know it may seem like a lot of dosh 'for what it is', but what it is, *is* probably one of the most dramatic upgrades you will hear, facilitating the accurate reproduction of music on vinyl - I cannot stress this enough, and indeed don't say such things lightly.
So you need to judge its cost against the level of sonic improvement it brings, and in turn the enjoyment derived from listening to your music collection. In that respect, TBH, I've heard complete arm-upgrades do far less!!
Plus, I know that the full-production item will have the Funk logo at the front (which mine doesn't), and come with professionally designed, attractive and tactile packaging, plus a set-up jig, to aid with installation - all of which will make the purchase a bit more 'luxurious' and enhance the Houdini's overall pride of ownership:)
However, 'fripperies' aside, what shouldn't be forgotten is that the Houdini fundamentally (and very ably), addresses a hitherto unknown problem that, undetected, has plagued vinyl replay for years, and in time I predict will become a ubiquitous accessory for all serious vinyl and turntable enthusiasts, keen to extract the maximum information from the grooves of their favourite records .
Therefore, I can give this marvellous little device no higher praise. Quite honestly, it's one of the most exciting new discoveries to hit the enthusiast hi-fi turntable scene in years!
Marco.
RobbieGong
30-08-2020, 17:42
Robster, you need to get yourself a Houdini. Trust me, it'll do the same trick in your set up as it has in mine - and if you *really* want to hear what that CB can do!;)
Marco.
Yep, noted. Certainly wouldn't dismiss trying it out one day, funds permitting :)
Wakefield Turntables
30-08-2020, 20:11
Here's my SC35C project from earlier on in the year.
https://i.ibb.co/N9QC70F/WP-20200830-001.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/bbH1Pm6/WP-20200830-003.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/10qsCtC/WP-20200830-002.jpg <a href=https://i.ibb.co/bbH1Pm6/WP-20200830-003.jpg target=_blank>https://i.ibb.co/bbH1Pm6/WP-20200830-003.jpg</a> https://i.ibb.co/N9QC70F/WP-20200830-001.jpg
Audiotechnica magnesium head shell.
Mexican SC35C (yep I know it's not a USA version)
Pulse Paradox aluminium headshell
Total weight including stylus and cartridge leads ~21-22g, it just about scrapes into being acceptable with respects to cartridge compliance and resonance.
I have no idea how it sounds. I'm still waiting for a new stylus and cartridge leads.
Here's the stylus I bought
https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/ss35c-sas-b/
There are many replacement outer bodies for this cartridge made from lots of exotic wood. It might be a good idea to check some of the damping values at this website
https://qualia.webs.com/dampingfactor.htm
Should be fun!
Yep, noted. Certainly wouldn't dismiss trying it out one day, funds permitting :)
Nice one. Honesty, it'll be one of the best investments you'll ever make in the appreciation of your record collection!:guitar:
Marco.
Here's my SC35C project from earlier on in the year.
https://i.ibb.co/N9QC70F/WP-20200830-001.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/bbH1Pm6/WP-20200830-003.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/10qsCtC/WP-20200830-002.jpg <a href=https://i.ibb.co/bbH1Pm6/WP-20200830-003.jpg target=_blank>https://i.ibb.co/bbH1Pm6/WP-20200830-003.jpg</a> https://i.ibb.co/N9QC70F/WP-20200830-001.jpg
Audiotechnica magnesium head shell.
Mexican SC35C (yep I know it's not a USA version)
Pulse Paradox aluminium headshell
Total weight including stylus and cartridge leads ~21-22g, it just about scrapes into being acceptable with respects to cartridge compliance and resonance.
I have no idea how it sounds. I'm still waiting for a new stylus and cartridge leads.
Here's the stylus I bought
https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/ss35c-sas-b/
There are many replacement outer bodies for this cartridge made from lots of exotic wood. It might be a good idea to check some of the damping values at this website
https://qualia.webs.com/dampingfactor.htm
Should be fun!
Interesting stuff, Andy. Thanks for the links. I bet you're dying to hear how it sounds now:)
Enjoy the Jico, but as a contrast [even if simply for education purposes] I'd urge you to source a NOS [with white writing on the front] Shure stylus for your SC35C, as I think you'd be shocked and stunned at just how good it is!;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
31-08-2020, 08:13
I'd urge you to source a NOS [with white writing on the front] Shure stylus for your SC35C, as I think you'd be shocked and stunned at just how good it is!;)
Marco.
Yep, I had a look last night, nowt much kickin' around. It's always really really cool just to see how far these old carts can be pushed and TBH with new headshells, leads, stylii they can go a long way and usually match or outperform today's offerings.
The Black Adder
31-08-2020, 08:20
Looking great, Jo! I still need to clean my amp - just haven't had time recently... Two years of dust on it, lol - It's shameful, I know!:eyebrows:
I'll be doing it this week though, so will post a pic then...
Would love to see some close-up pics of your T/T, and particularly cartridge 'in the groove'... And also of the Lentek. Glad they're hitting the spot nicely!:)
I may be adding something special (vintage) to my 103 line up next week, so watch this space!;)
Marco.
P.S Your next big upgrade matey [and I'm serious about this] is a Houdini. Honestly, you'd love it... Have I ever been wrong with any of my reccos to you so far?:DI'm looking in to that, Marco.
You haven't been wrong yet, dude. Lol
Looks very interesting.
Here's some pics of the TT in action. Groovin' some Led Zep. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200831/a52907931c8c7a0a053f5523ad584d64.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200831/e5c1b315e2d415eec3fd8f2ebf53832d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200831/1195a4beecd40463b53e6de5e5df99b7.jpg
Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
Yep, I had a look last night, nowt much kickin' around. It's always really really cool just to see how far these old carts can be pushed and TBH with new headshells, leads, stylii they can go a long way and usually match or outperform today's offerings.
Yeah, I totally agree - veritable hidden gems! Cartridges were 'voiced' differently then (more 'musically') and the good ones constructed with high-quality materials/components, simply not found now in anything at the price point, in today's money, which they were originally introduced at.
Plus, most would've partnered piss-poor T/Ts, or decent ones sub-optimally set-up, as we've learned so much more now about that, with crap cables (compared with those currently available), and through pretty dreadful phono stages. Therefore, the reality is that they were almost certainly never heard at their full potential, which today's more revealing equipment facilitates.
The other thing is that you can pretty much guarantee that anything used by the BBC, for broadcasting purposes, such as the SC35C, Goldring G800, Decca Deram, etc, when the BBC had extremely high standards, was of inherent good quality, otherwise it'd never have been chosen for its intended application.
So all we have to do now, in order to realise the potential of these vintage cartridges, is mimic (as closely as possible) the operational environment that they'd originally have been used in, such as in terms of direct or idler-driven turntables, high-mass arms, etc.
In that respect, now that I've got the SC35C 'singing' like never before, it's definitely up there with my favourite cartridges of all time - yes it's THAT good!:cool:
Marco.
Jo, those pics look just pant-wettingly wonderful - I could sit and stare at them all day!! :eek::wow::drool:
Just 'PROPA', matey, in EVERY conceivable way, and makes the vast majority of T/Ts out there look like toys!
Defo try and get yourself a Houdini, as trust me, I know you're in seventh heaven now, but you'll move upstairs one if you fit one of those babies...:D:trust:
Marco.
The Black Adder
31-08-2020, 11:57
Jo, those pics look just pant-wettingly wonderful - I could sit and stare at them all day!! :eek::wow::drool:
Just 'PROPA', matey, in EVERY conceivable way, and makes the vast majority of T/Ts out there look like toys!
Defo try and get yourself a Houdini, as trust me, I know you're in seventh heaven now, but you'll move upstairs one if you fit one of those babies...:D:trust:
Marco.Will do.. I'm looking in to a platter mat.
Thanks, yep... It's a serious beast. I can't lift it. It's too heavy. I had to get a friend to lift it in to place. Lol... Bonkers.
Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
Will do.. I'm looking in to a platter mat.
Thanks, yep... It's a serious beast. I can't lift it. It's too heavy. I had to get a friend to lift it in to place. Lol... Bonkers.
Yeah I can imagine... Proper engineering, though! Before you pull the trigger on a mat, I'm going to revisit the Achromat, to see if there exists some kind of synergy between it and the Houdini, and compare it against the Soundeck one I'm currently using, so will report back on that soon, hopefully before the end of the week:cool:
Marco.
Just bagged a pair of NOS Shure styli on ebay, for the SC35C, as now that I've really nailed how to get the most from this cartridge I wanted to ensure that I had enough original 'needles' to see me through!:)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/HX6wPq.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/X3CTex.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/btzacM.jpg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324275148808
These originals, used in conjunction with a proper 'Made in USA' Shure body are a totally different ball game, so defo worth having.
I may be adding another 'NOS little gem' to my T/T before the end of the week, so watch this space!:cool:
Marco.
That there is a girlie system.
You need 4 Lockwood's per side for a boy's one.
And eight per side for a gents.
Solid, realistic posts like this make this forum:D
:lolsign:
Better having a 'girlie system' than driving a hairdresser's car!:ner::lol:
;)
Marco.
Just bagged a pair of NOS Shure styli on ebay, for the SC35C, as now that I've really nailed how to get the most from this cartridge I wanted to ensure that had enough original 'needles' to see me through!:)
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/HX6wPq.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/X3CTex.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/btzacM.jpg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324275148808
These originals, used in conjunction with a proper 'Made in USA' Shure body are a totally different ball game, so defo worth having.
I may be adding another 'NOS little gem' to my T/T before the end of the week, so watch this space!:cool:
Marco.
good find.. should see you out;)
[emoji38]sign:
Better having a 'girlie system' than driving a hairdresser's car!:ner:[emoji38]
;)
Marco.Have you considered both our cars are named after girls?
German pussy cars, for sure.
Beobloke
01-09-2020, 11:59
Have you considered both our cars are named after girls?
Are you sure? I can honestly say I've never met any girl called C350CDi.
Maybe it's not a common moniker in Hampshire... :D
I think he's referring to BRAbus:eyebrows:
A huge 38DD 'cup' full of fun....;)
Marco.
Andy (Rexton), if you're after a NOS stylus for your SC35C, snap this up one, mate: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/shure-stylus-SS35C-manufactured-by-Shure-Brothers-Inc-genuine-shure/143418308544?_trkparms=aid%3D1110009%26algo%3DSPLI CE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142652%26 meid%3D5267ab77754e49229c65ccbc12ba0256%26pid%3D10 1196%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D333 680605610%26itm%3D143418308544%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0 %26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DShure&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219
:cool:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
01-09-2020, 17:25
Purchased. Delivery date not until end of September ???!!!???? The JICO will probably be here before the NOS arrives.
Nice one. I'll be really interested in what you think of it compared with the Jico. The difference should be rather marked!:)
Just remember when it arrives to track it at 4.5g, which is the optimal figure for VTF.
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
01-09-2020, 20:11
No probs. Just remember you'll have to wait a few weeks before I get them set up and broken in. I'll have to do the listening on my SME 3012 as my SME V 12 doesn't have the ability to track at 4.5g :lol: Incidently I love my M55E + JICO (s) stylus it's really very very good so I'm hoping the SC35C setup is in another league. I'll be using a very heavily modded EAR 834P clone, my Croft preamp has had extensive Nick Gorham mods but I just don't see, to get on with it very well.
No probs. Just remember you'll have to wait a few weeks before I get them set up and broken in. I'll have to do the listening on my SME 3012 as my SME V 12 doesn't have the ability to track at 4.5g :lol: Incidently I love my M55E + JICO (s) stylus it's really very very good so I'm hoping the SC35C setup is in another league. I'll be using a very heavily modded EAR 834P clone, my Croft preamp has had extensive Nick Gorham mods but I just don't see, to get on with it very well.
Lol, ok firstly, your 3012 will be a no-brainer better arm to use with a low-compliance cartridge, such as the Shure, simply through design, regardless of anything else. So defo go with that, but fit the highest-mass detachable headshell you've got to it (minimum 12g)!
Why did you get Nick to 'extensively modify' your Croft, and not Glenn? What exactly have you had done to it?
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
01-09-2020, 20:41
I got Nick to do the mods suggested by Glenn. Glenn did his usual disappearing trick when the cricket started. I wanted the mods doing ASAP. You might want to have a look for my thread detailing the mods. I've since had more mods done. My phonostage is specifically modded for the RCA 6591, you might want to make sure the one fitted in your pre-amp is being fully driven with correct voltage. My EPOCH was a little under powered. I also had all the tape functions removed from my Croft. Have a look in here
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41615-The-Croft-Epoch-A-Tale-of-developing-a-MoFo-of-a-pre-amp&highlight=Croft+EPOCH
Alan (Firebottle) has since modified the Croft even further with individual valve regulation. Didn't you have a tube rolling session with the small valves in the PSU? What conclusion did you come to?
Okies... Hope you haven't gone too far and fecked things up mate, especially as you say you can't seem to get on with it. A properly modded Croft should blow you away instantly!
What is it you don't like about the sound? I'd have been a bit more patient and waited until Glenn was free, but not to worry...
Anyway, this is the thread you want, in reference to the PSU valves. I settled on a NOS La Radiotechnique, see here:
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?49050-New-Valves-for-phono-stage&p=841160#post841160
Undoubtedly the best I've heard!:)
Marco.
Firebottle
02-09-2020, 07:25
Alan (Firebottle) has since modified the Croft even further with individual valve regulation. Didn't you have a tube rolling session with the small valves in the PSU? What conclusion did you come to?
Thought I'd better pick you up on this, it wasn't individual regulation> I corrected the supply voltage that was rather low due to an out of spec resistor and also re-configured the heater wiring so it could be used without phono stage vales fitted if required.
This also enabled alternative higher heater current valves to be paired in the line stage, which wasn't possible before as you found out.
A
Hi Alan,
I corrected the supply voltage that was rather low due to an out of spec resistor and also re-configured the heater wiring so it could be used without phono stage vales fitted if required.
This also enabled alternative higher heater current valves to be paired in the line stage, which wasn't possible before as you found out.
That must've made a big difference!:)
However, I'm not sure exactly what purpose/effect was intended by the latter, or why it would be considered as an upgrade. 6SL7s are superb valves for a line or phono stage. Could you elucidate on your thinking there, please?
Ta:cool:
Marco.
Firebottle
02-09-2020, 10:23
The heater circuit re-configuration was needed because there are 5 valves in the circuit.
All are 6.3V heaters fed from a regulated 12V supply, so valves are wired in twin series pairs.
The 5th valve is padded with a resistor to accommodate the 'spare 6V', this resistor is chosen for a 300mA heater current and is on one of the line stage valves.
The other line stage valve shares its circuit with one of the phono section valves.
Andy fitted alternative valves with a 600mA heater rating and discovered that he needed to fit 3 valves to make the line section only work, because of the shared heater circuit with part of the phono section.
The other line valve was underdriven because the resistor value was too high a value for the 600mA rating, causing this channel to be low on gain and distorted.
I rewired it so the two line valves were a series pair and could be fitted with 300 or 600mA rated valves, also only needing 2 valves to be fitted for line stage only operation.
Thanks for that, Alan. Makes sense:)
Do you know which "alternative valves" Andy fitted, and why? Not sure why he'd want to use anything other than 6SL7s - and any 6SL7 (or equivalent) works perfectly in my Croft, without the need for any adjustments, including RCA 5691 red base, VT229, Russian 6H9C, etc.
Marco.
Are you sure? I can honestly say I've never met any girl called C350CDi.
Maybe it's not a common moniker in Hampshire... :D
No. But what a cool name. I bet if you met here you'd lurve her!;)
Oh, you do!:D
Beobloke
02-09-2020, 12:50
Funnily enough, 6 of us were driven to the airport a few years back in an airport taxi minibus driven by a (smoking hot) young lady whose name genuinely was Mercedes. She explained that her dad was a car nut and that her mother finally capitulated and allowed him to use a car name on the youngest when she was born.
And in case you were wondering what minibus she was driving us in. That’s right; you guessed it!
It was a Transit Tourneo...
Andy (Rexton), if you're after a NOS stylus for your SC35C, snap this up one, mate: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/shure-stylus-SS35C-manufactured-by-Shure-Brothers-Inc-genuine-shure/143418308544?_trkparms=aid%3D1110009%26algo%3DSPLI CE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142652%26 meid%3D5267ab77754e49229c65ccbc12ba0256%26pid%3D10 1196%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D333 680605610%26itm%3D143418308544%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0 %26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DShure&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219
:cool:
Marco.
I'm in the market for a new cart and have been looking at Decca's and SPU's. This talk about the SC35C has piqued my interest, I've been going the idler/heavy arm/ low compliance route for a while. Stylus and body on the way!
Firebottle
02-09-2020, 16:25
Do you know which "alternative valves" Andy fitted, and why?
Marco.
Can't remember, you'll have to ask Andy. Just trying alternatives I think.
I'm in the market for a new cart and have been looking at Decca's and SPU's. This talk about the SC35C has piqued my interest, I've been going the idler/heavy arm/ low compliance route for a while. Stylus and body on the way!
Nice one, Charlie. Glad to be of assistance and hope you like it! Did you manage to source an original 'Made in USA' body and NOS Shure stylus (with white writing on the front)? Those are the real deal!:)
Marco.
Can't remember, you'll have to ask Andy. Just trying alternatives I think.
No worries, Alan. Hopefully, Andy will clarify later.
Marco.
Ok, I mentioned earlier that I was hopeful of imminently landing some vintage gems, and the deed has been done! These lovely things will be winging their way from Japan to chez moi...
NOS Denon DL-103GL (Gold Limited) - introduced in 1990, in a very limited run of 2000 pieces. It is, IMO, one of the finest 103s ever made, alongside the 'M' and 'SA', the latter which the GL is near-identical to:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/nXwm1Q.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/jD9iiv.jpg
And a lovely mint example of a 1976-vintage Denon AU-310 SUT:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Nhv1C0.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/nKyugb.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/dCNoE4.jpg
$1300 for both, shipped (insured and trackable) to the UK!:)
It's been a while since I played around with SUTs, as I've mainly been using MC head amps, such as the Paul Hynes and Lentek. However, I wanted to revisit using this little device, as it's something I first encountered in 1982, when I bought my first DL-103, and used it with that to great effect!
The sound I remember from then was so warm and musical (but not in a euphonically coloured way), rather richly toned and lifelike, with an addictive rhythmic alacrity to the bass, so I wanted to try and recreate that, used in conjunction not just with the GL, but also my NOS, stock (Nippon Columbia-vintage) DL-103.
The GL is something I've *always* wanted, but genuine NOS ones rarely come up for sale. One of my biggest regrets (and fortunately I haven't had too many in audio) was selling my DL-103SA and buying an SPU, not because I didn't enjoy the SPU, but because I should've kept the SA!:doh:
Quite simply, it was one of the best cartridges I'd ever heard, fundamentally addressing the shortfalls of the stock 103 (introducing carbon-fibre reinforced resin casing, wound with 4N gold coils), and the music it made was simply magical!
So... Now I have the GL, which is built near-identically, and am really looking forward to hearing what it does, in conjunction with the AU-310, and also the Lentek!
Happy days:cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
02-09-2020, 17:14
Nice one Marco ! Look forward to how it all develops :thumbsup:
Cheers, mate. It'll be fun playing with some new toys again, and these ones have been on my radar for years!:D
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
02-09-2020, 19:58
Marco,
I've tried the following 6SL7's in the left and right output channels.
1. RCA 5691 (Red Base) 9.75/10
2. Bendix 5691 (Red Base) 9.75/10
3. Tung Sol 6S7GT (Black Bottle) 9.6/10
4. Tung Sol 6SL7GT (Orange base) 9.5/10
5. Mullard 6SL7GT (Black base) 9.25/10
6. Ken Rad 6SL7GT (Black Base) VT229 9.25/10
7. Tung Sol 6SL7GT VT229 (Black bottle) 9.1/10
8. General Electric GSL7GT (Black base 1970's) 8.75 / 10
9. Slyvania 6SL7GT black base 7/10
10. Brimar 6SL7GT (black base) 6.25/10
11. Reflektor black base 70's version 5/10
I honestly get fed up trying different types and at the time I think I'd gone through all variants. I'm now sure more (OLD) variants exist.
Hi Andy,
That's cool, but which ones didn't work until Alan modified you amp to accommodate their electrical parameters? That's what is flummoxing me...
I'm presuming none of the above, as all would work fine in my Croft, without any adjustments needed!;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
02-09-2020, 20:51
They all worked but the Croft needed some optimising which is what Alan performed, as detailed in the earlier posts. I just wanted to make sure that the 6591 worked optimally. The Croft was out of spec and he remedied this.
Ah ok, so it was more a case of at the time there being something wrong with the Croft, rather than a fully functioning one needing modded to take 5691s?
If so, that's fine, as otherwise the Croft should happily take 5691s without the need for any adjustments, as indeed mine does:)
Marco.
Firebottle
03-09-2020, 06:31
It was the 5691 Marco, these have 600mA heaters, just looked them up again.
Does your Croft have the 5 valve line up. If so I imagine with 5691's in they would not be operating optimally.
Yes it has five 6SL7s, and an ECC83/12AX7 and 85A2 in the PSU section.. What I can categorically tell you is that the 5691s I've used have been in there for YEARS, and so if they weren't operating optimally I'd have known by now!:D
I certainly have not experienced the issues you described earlier with Andy's amp:
Andy fitted alternative valves with a 600mA heater rating and discovered that he needed to fit 3 valves to make the line section only work, because of the shared heater circuit with part of the phono section.
The other line valve was underdriven because the resistor value was too high a value for the 600mA rating, causing this channel to be low on gain and distorted.
That has simply never happened. Any 5691 valve I've used has sounded excellent and not behaved badly, in any way, in my amp. I suspect that Andy's Epoch has some design differences compared with my Charisma-X - remember that although both are Crofts, they are different models:)
Marco.
Firebottle
03-09-2020, 07:39
I imagine that is very true Marco. Could be that the Charisma uses 6V heater supplies, so individually wired.
If all the heaters are the same colour/temperature then no problem. :cool:
Yup, plus I'm sure I'd have heard the associated distortion you've described:)
I've rolled every available variant of 6SL7 in my amp (although obviously not every one in existence from every manufacturer) and never had a problem, including Russian 6H9C.
Check out the spec for those, as I'm sure that they also vary a little from standard 6SL7s, in terms of their electrical requirements.
Marco.
Nice one, Charlie. Glad to be of assistance and hope you like it! Did you manage to source an original 'Made in USA' body and NOS Shure stylus (with white writing on the front)? Those are the real deal!:)
Marco.
I think the body is a later one. Stylus is NOS Shure USA with the white lettering, got to wait for them to arrive... In the meantime I've dusted down my modded Lenco with Lustre GST1 and V15111 MR, wow it sounds good. The SC35C will have its work cut out to impress me!:)
Have a look just on top of the output pins on the cartridge, and if it says 'Made in USA' then yours is an Evanston model. If not, it'll be made in Mexico, which is fine. It's certainly not disastrous, as the much bigger difference is in having a proper NOS stylus:)
I'm sure the combo you're using now sounds great, as I love EVERY part of it! So I wouldn't expect the Shure to be no-brainer better, but it will offer you a different 'take' on your favourite music - it's certainly a fun listen!:cool:
Marco.
I'm thinking of using my NOS Denon PCL-300 headshell, onto which when it arrives, I'll fit the 103GL. I think it should be a good match, both visually and sonically (when attached to my Ortofon RS-212D tonearm):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/gEDUQZ.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/SRw3qv.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/9mgIEG.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/6PcePj.jpg
Denon's top headshell, from 1996. Originally selling for £70. Now mint, boxed, ones can go for anything up to £250! 2-ply anodised aluminium-coated, aluminium-alloy shell, fitted with with 6N-copper leads. 14g.
Hopefully it'll be a good combo! My finger is also hovering dangerously over a set of these Furutech 'La Source' headshell leads, which I've always wanted to try, but the eye-watering price has always put me off! I own a number of 'hi-end' Furutech products, and the quality of construction and performance is simply second to none.
However, my intention is to put together a 'final' cartridge/headshell combo for my T/T, which I intend on using for life [or as long as it lasts], so should I bite the bullet and just pull the trigger?
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/dGqfFG.jpg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Furutech-La-Source-102-High-Performance-Headshell-Leads/293088517582
:eek::D:hmm:
Marco.
The Furutech headshell leads are less than an inch long. You may find that to be insufficient.
Firebottle
03-09-2020, 16:34
I'm sorry that's just bonkers.
Hi Barry,
No, mate, they should be perfect. The 103 is a big cartridge, so when installed in the PCL-300 headshell, the output pins will be pretty close to the input pins on the headshell, see here (fitted with a 103R, which is the same size):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/wMWrEW.jpg
Around an inch should suffice, darling, as the bishop said to the actress!:D
What do you think of the 103GL - were you aware of it, and have you ever heard one? It's wound with 4N gold coils, which carbon-fibre bodyshell aside, gives it a special sound that's quite different from a stock 103!:)
Marco.
I'm sorry that's just bonkers.
:lolsign:
I know, but you only live once! Plus, I may be able to use my contacts to wangle a deal;)
Marco.
Ah - I see what you mean:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/wMWrEW.jpg
Also, the leads have to cross one another between the headshell pins and the cartridge pins; so that will use up a bit of length.
I have no experience of your Denon, the only ones I have heard are my two DL103s; both of which are now down in the order of preference of my MC cartridges (having been surplanted by my EMTs, Ortofons, a Van den Hul, and my current favourite: the Ikeda C9 III (a cantileverless (à la Decca) moving-coil design, that combines the strengths of a Decca with that of a moving-coil cartridge, with none of the weaknesses).
Just thinking more about your point about length, lol... It says on the blurb, quote:
"Dimensions: Approx 2.5±0.1mm diameter x 23.5± 0.5mm overall length"... That's simply referring to the wee bit of wire in the middle.
Including the insulated connectors (if you look at the above picture), the cables as a whole will be long enough to reach where they need to go!:)
Marco.
Ah - I see what you mean:
Also, the leads have to cross one another between the headshell pins and the cartridge pins; so that will use up a bit of length.
Yeah, also see my previous post. It should be fine:)
I have no experience of your Denon, the only ones I have heard are my two DL103s; both of which are now down in the order of preference of my MC cartridges (having been surplanted by my EMTs, Ortofons, a Van den Hul, and my current favourite: the Ikeda C9 III (a cantileverless (à la Decca) moving-coil design, that combines the strengths of a Decca with that of a moving-coil cartridge, with none of the weaknesses).
No worries, and interesting... Didn't know about the Ikeda. When did you get that - did you post a thread about it? From your description, I like the sound of that. Also which VDH have you got?
The GL (I've heard one before, along the very similar 'SA') easily sounds as good, if not better, than any SPU I've had, and also the EMT, which as you know I've heard in my system and also love. Sonically, the GL is streets ahead of the stock 103, and indeed pretty much ANY 103. The only one that can touch it is the 103M [design-wise, quite a departure from any other 103], and of course the SA.
To all intents and purposes, the GL is a £2k MC cartridge, if made by anyone other than Denon (without access to their huge resources and economies of scale), in the days when they threw all their financial clout and know-how into cartridge design.
Marco.
DarrenHW
03-09-2020, 18:10
Ok, I mentioned earlier that I was hopeful of imminently landing some vintage gems, and the deed has been done! These lovely things will be winging their way from Japan to chez moi...
Now that is one good looking 103 :drool:
I'd like to get my ears around that SUT too, very interested to hear how it compares to the Lentek...
Cheers, mate. Hopefully it'll sound as good as it looks!:eyebrows:
Yeah, the AU-310 SUT is an interesting one... It's pitched as being a budget model, but the sound I remember hearing, from back in the day, certainly wasn't 'budget'. I suspect that the transformers it uses from that period, based on the fact that it was introduced in 1976, would've been pretty good, hence my interest:)
Yes, it'll be interesting comparing it to the Lentek! Pop me a PM or give me a bell when you fancy coming round for a listen:cool:
Marco.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/NlKeZj.png
Oh, and fitting instructions:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/39XNGI.png
Marco.
matodono1
03-09-2020, 23:57
Yes, lol! That's my next upgrade: an aluminium body. Going to use this chap in the States: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Phono-Cartridge-body-for-Shure-SC35C-but-will-work-on-countless-others/182245529410
I've no doubt it'll be as successful as what many have done with the DL-103...
Glad you're considering a Houdini. I know it may seem like a lot of dosh 'for what it is', but what it is, *is* probably one of the most dramatic upgrades you will hear, facilitating the accurate reproduction of music on vinyl - I cannot stress this enough, and indeed don't say such things lightly.
So you need to judge its cost against the level of sonic improvement it brings, and in turn the enjoyment derived from listening to your music collection. In that respect, TBH, I've heard complete arm-upgrades do far less!!
Plus, I know that the full-production item will have the Funk logo at the front (which mine doesn't), and come with professionally designed, attractive and tactile packaging, plus a set-up jig, to aid with installation - all of which will make the purchase a bit more 'luxurious' and enhance the Houdini's overall pride of ownership:)
However, 'fripperies' aside, what shouldn't be forgotten is that the Houdini fundamentally (and very ably), addresses a hitherto unknown problem that, undetected, has plagued vinyl replay for years, and in time I predict will become a ubiquitous accessory for all serious vinyl and turntable enthusiasts, keen to extract the maximum information from the grooves of their favourite records .
Therefore, I can give this marvellous little device no higher praise. Quite honestly, it's one of the most exciting new discoveries to hit the enthusiast hi-fi turntable scene in years!
Marco.
Interesting what you say about complete tonearms doing far less than the effect the Houdini creates. Houdini is the new great leveller. All Houdini equipped tonearms now sound pretty much the same except for very very subtle nuances.
Our latest tag line. The Houdini deletes the "tone" in tonearm.
:lol:
No worries, and interesting... Didn't know about the Ikeda. When did you get that - did you post a thread about it? From your description, I like the sound of that. Also which VDH have you got?
The GL (I've heard one before, along the very similar 'SA') easily sounds as good, if not better, than any SPU I've had, and also the EMT, which as you know I've heard in my system and also love. Sonically, the GL is streets ahead of the stock 103, and indeed pretty much ANY 103. The only one that can touch it is the 103M [design-wise, quite a departure from any other 103], and of course the SA.
To all intents and purposes, the GL is a £2k MC cartridge, if made by anyone other than Denon (without access to their huge resources and economies of scale), in the days when they threw all their financial clout and know-how into cartridge design.
Marco.
Bought it from Tom (montesquieu): https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?59180-FS-Ikeda-9C-III-cartridge-w-headshell-cantileverless-like-a-Decca-made-in-Japan!&highlight=Ikeda+III+cartridge, and used in an Ikeda-modified Ortofon arm, the 309i (also bought from Tom).
Wakefield Turntables
04-09-2020, 07:40
Marco,
Sounds like your going to have a merry old time over the next few months. Good luck! I'll be certainly looking forward to what you have to report.
A
Interesting what you say about complete tonearms doing far less than the effect the Houdini creates. Houdini is the new great leveller. All Houdini equipped tonearms now sound pretty much the same except for very very subtle nuances.
Our latest tag line. The Houdini deletes the "tone" in tonearm.
:lol:
Lol, I like that one!:D
The statement I made is true, quite simply because NO tonearm fixes what the Houdini does: a fundamental problem that hobbles, not only the performance of ANY arm or cartridge, but their ability to accurately retrieve the musical information from the record grooves!
Yes, a well-designed tonearm is mandatory, and brings its own benefits, but none facilitate the (all important) decoupling of the cartridge from the headshell, like the Houdini, and where instead the cartridge is tightly coupled, resulting in the loss of so much MUSIC... And you simply won't appreciate that until you hear the effect for yourself.
The removal of that bottleneck, therefore, is what makes the Houdini essential for anyone who truly wants to hear their record collection at its best!:)
Marco.
Bought it from Tom (montesquieu): https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?59180-FS-Ikeda-9C-III-cartridge-w-headshell-cantileverless-like-a-Decca-made-in-Japan!&highlight=Ikeda+III+cartridge, and used in an Ikeda-modified Ortofon arm, the 309i (also bought from Tom).
That's a gorgeous thing, Barry, and certainly ticks a lot of boxes for me! I've never heard one, but would dearly love to at some point. You got a bit of a bargain there, too!:)
Marco.
Opti-cal
04-09-2020, 08:28
RE: Houdini
This is really interesting guys.
I have literally heard the benefits from fitting shims between the headshell and cartridge. One of my tonearms does not have VTA adjustment so it was more out of necessity than experimentation. When I fitted a shim (just for fun) on a TT and arm with VTA adjustment, it sounded better leveled with the shim in place than leveled without . . .
These were just plastic ones, but I did consider that using different materials could make a difference. Sounds like I may have heard what improvements a 'poor mans' Houdini could bring. I don't doubt that the effect could be significant with large audible improvements, given the obvious research and engineering that has gone into making something like this.
Marco,
Sounds like your going to have a merry old time over the next few months. Good luck! I'll be certainly looking forward to what you have to report.
A
Cheers, Andy, and yes you're right. Time to have a bit of fun again, as I've been off the scene for a while. Unlike most here, I'm not a swapper, so tend to 'throw the kitchen sink' at something ONCE, and do the job right (nail it), then enjoy and leave well alone!:)
So in the long run, I usually end up spending far less on hi-fi than others (with expensive tastes, lol) who are continually swapping stuff, and never get to where they *really* want to be! That's certainly the rationale behind my current shenanigans with cartridges/wires and headshells...
Essentially, after selling my Denon DL-S1, which was superb, but not 100% 'my thing' (simply because ultimately I prefer a bolder, weightier sound), I needed something to replace it, and which was capable of replicating a goodly dose of its musical magic, but underpinned by more authority. I'm confident that the GL will be it, ably supported by 'the best' [in terms of my judgement criteria] headshell and leads, in order to maximise its capabilities.
Btw, yesterday I took delivery of the capacitor loading kit I mentioned earlier (see here: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Turntable_Accessories), experimented with the various loading options, and made some rather interesting discoveries!
More on that later....;)
Marco.
matodono1
06-09-2020, 08:37
RE: Houdini
This is really interesting guys.
I have literally heard the benefits from fitting shims between the headshell and cartridge. One of my tonearms does not have VTA adjustment so it was more out of necessity than experimentation. When I fitted a shim (just for fun) on a TT and arm with VTA adjustment, it sounded better leveled with the shim in place than leveled without . . .
These were just plastic ones, but I did consider that using different materials could make a difference. Sounds like I may have heard what improvements a 'poor mans' Houdini could bring. I don't doubt that the effect could be significant with large audible improvements, given the obvious research and engineering that has gone into making something like this.
Hi Opti,
We tested many other spacers, bits of foam and felt (no names) They solve problems but also cause problems. The Houdini is indeed designed to only solve problems and thus sounds more natural.
I have announced elsewhere that we are allowing A of S members to get hold of Pre-release Houdini's and not suffer the next month without. If interested simply mail Arthur at info@thefunkfirm.co.uk
he will make all the arrangements with you from there.
Thanks for your comment and interest...
Matt.
matodono1
06-09-2020, 08:42
Lol, I like that one!:D
The statement I made is true, quite simply because NO tonearm fixes what the Houdini does: a fundamental problem that hobbles, not only the performance of ANY arm or cartridge, but their ability to accurately retrieve the musical information from the record grooves!
Yes, a well-designed tonearm is mandatory, and brings its own benefits, but none facilitate the (all important) decoupling of the cartridge from the headshell, like the Houdini, and where instead the cartridge is tightly coupled, resulting in the loss of so much MUSIC... And you simply won't appreciate that until you hear the effect for yourself.
The removal of that bottleneck, therefore, is what makes the Houdini essential for anyone who truly wants to hear their record collection at its best!:)
Marco.
Yes we are very much on the same page here. All of us including Arthur (The Mad Scientist) have learned so much over the last months. It has truly been a revelation!
Continue to enjoy!
Matt.
28500
RE: Houdini
This is really interesting guys.
I have literally heard the benefits from fitting shims between the headshell and cartridge. One of my tonearms does not have VTA adjustment so it was more out of necessity than experimentation. When I fitted a shim (just for fun) on a TT and arm with VTA adjustment, it sounded better leveled with the shim in place than leveled without . .
These were just plastic ones, but I did consider that using different materials could make a difference. Sounds like I may have heard what improvements a 'poor mans' Houdini could bring. I don't doubt that the effect could be significant with large audible improvements, given the obvious research and engineering that has gone into making something like this.
Hi Chris,
In terms of the bits in bold, most certainly. The first bit I've also heard for myself, and have tried various "shims" made from different materials, such as graphite, exotic hardwoods and brass - all made improvements in slightly different ways, but there's no doubt that most cartridges, certainly moving-coils, benefit from a bit of added mass, and the Houdini provides that with its 2g weight.
However, that's just a side show... The 'main event', as it were, is the isolation and decoupling effect it provides, which touching upon the latter (above) is designed and engineered, in order to tackle the two aforementioned issues WAY more effectively than any wooden, plastic or metal "shim". Therefore rest assured, that if you try a Houdini, it will outperform ANY other such device you've used to date, and in a way that will amaze you!:cool:
Marco.
Yes we are very much on the same page here. All of us including Arthur (The Mad Scientist) have learned so much over the last months. It has truly been a revelation!
Continue to enjoy!
Matt.
Cheers, Matt. The Houdini is one of the best things I've fitted to my turnable in years, as it's really making me enjoy my vinyl collection like never before!:cool"
Marco.
Ok, another incoming toy... As you know, I love quality vintage cartridges and have had great success in the past with the G800, so fancied trying the improved version, after spying a fully-NOS one in Holland:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/xFKeEh.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxroHrr0zQk
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/K1Vvdn.jpg[/URL]
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/zDakHw.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmzDakHwj)
It gets a good rep, and sounds pretty funky on thus vintage Akai player:
:cool:
Anyway, I'm looking forward to adding it to my cartridge collection in due course!:)
Marco.
Think I've got one of those in the collection, came off a PL115D, 1st right but looks like the stylus isn't a Goldring.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50321834552_d7fd9af351_o.jpg
Nice selection of carts... It's probably a modern replacement, Roy, but you can get NOS ones on ebay, etc. Have you listened to your G820 recently?:)
If/when you do so again, fit it to your heaviest/highest-mass headshell, as it will respond well to that, as will tracking it at the upper end of its range (1.5-4g), so say 3g. Details here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/goldring/g-820.shtml
I'm really looking forward to hearing this cartridge, as NOS ones are as rare as hen's teeth, and comparing it with my Shure SC35C. All I want now is a NOS Shure M3D [shouldn't have sold that one either when I had it], and I should have all the cartridges I'll ever need:
The line up will be:
Denon DL-103GL (NOS)
Denon DL-103 stock (NOS Nippon Columbia)
Shure SC35C (NOS ex-BBC stock, Evanston USA-sourced with NOS Shure stylus)
Shure M55E (NOS, with NOS Shure stylus)
NOS Shure M3D [incoming]
Goldring G820 (fully NOS)
I think that'll do, although I may still add another vintage low-compliance moving coil, if a suitably 'sexy' one shows up, or a vintage Decca!:D
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
09-09-2020, 08:17
I love my m55e. Am I right in thinking it was s re badged v15 mk 3?? I'm sure I was read that somewhere.
Not sure, Andy, may well be. One to research, unless someone 'in the know' could verify?
I also love mine and think it sounds fab, in the adequate 'meat on the bone', rich-toned , musical way of the best vintage cartridges, although not fitted with any 'posh' (Jico-type) stylus, just a good old Shure original (and BEST)!
IMO, folks get too bogged down trying to 'modernise' these old classics with a mindset of 'that old shank, posing as a 'stylus', with a cantilever as thick as a toothpick and fat/round spherical tip, tracking at some 'ridiculous' VTF', simply *can't* be any good', and therefore MUST be bettered by some etched, lightweight treble-forward, hi-fi sounding fine-line bollox, tracking at a more 'sensible' weight, and subsequently [B]completely LOSE almost everything that made the cartridge sound so good in the first place!:doh:
It's completely the WRONG mindset to adopt, IMO...
What should be done instead is obtaining an unused original stylus and using the cartridge on the kind of turntable and arm (both high-mass, no flimsy belt-drives or low-mass arms need apply) it would've partnered originally, embrace the necessary high VTF with a smile, because as long as the stylus is in good nick and tracking securely, it'll do FOOK ALL damage to your records, and simply sit back and join BOOGIE WONDERLAND!
:exactly:
Marco.
Nice selection of carts... It's probably a modern replacement, Roy, but you can get NOS ones on ebay, etc. Have you listened to your G820 recently?:)
If/when you do so again, fit it to your heaviest/highest-mass headshell, as it will respond well to that, as will tracking it at the upper end of its range (1.5-4g), so say 3g. Details here:
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/goldring/g-820.shtml
Yes, thinking back that was a replacement stylus I got for it. I seem to recall struggling to get it set up right (on the Pioneer) with it badly mistracking & giving up on it (it's still in the Pioneer headshell). Maybe I'll give it a try on one of my other decks (the PL112D was donated to my cousin's daughter when she got into vinyl).
Yeah, the mistracking will almost certainly be down to the poor quality of most modern replacement styli [possibly also too low a VTF], and insufficient mass in the partnering arm and/or headshell. In terms of the latter, I reckon you'd need at least 15g on the headshell alone.
Sort that out mate, and I guarantee you'll hear something rather different next time!;)
Marco.
Yeah, the mistracking will almost certainly be down to the poor quality of most modern replacement styli [possibly also too low a VTF], and insufficient mass in the partnering arm and/or headshell. In terms of the latter, I reckon you'd need at least 15g on the headshell alone.
Sort that out mate, and I guarantee you'll hear something rather different next time!;)
Marco.
Thanks. I'll have a play when I get chance.
No worries, if you get it right, I think you'll find the experience very rewarding...:)
The key to getting the best out of these old designs is in *fundamentally understanding* what 'makes them tick', as it were, then simply adopting it, and so failure to do so will almost certainly result in you not hearing their full potential.
Marco.
Ok, earlier on the thread I mentioned that I'd bought the above kit to experiment with and 'tune' the response of my Shure SC35C:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/HxrWAN.jpg
Instructions for use:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/dnrST1.png
Strangely, I guess, in my decades of using turntables, cables and phono stages, I've never experimented with adding capacitance to a MM phono input, as I've never felt the need to, happily using any MM phono stage I've had 'as is', in terms of loading, with many different cartridges, and considered the sound as being great!
However, little did I know that although the sound was great, there was still much more to come... And I'd probably never have discovered that, if I hadn't read comments elsewhere discussing the merits of the SC35C, mentioning that it 'liked' to see more capacitance over and above what existed as standard, via the usual loading of 47k Ohms, provided by the MM phono stage in my Croft preamp.
Yes, in the past I'd experimented with loading values with moving-coils, but never with MM cartridges, so I was about to embark on a voyage of brand new discovery! A what a discovery it's been.... Therefore, after having tried all of the above loading plugs (the construction quality of which is excellent), and assessed them sonically, I settled for the 'Brown' ones rated at 150pF. See here, in situ (fitted as described in the instructions above):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/yDZUH7.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmyDZUH7j)
Adding any more capacitance than that, by fitting the plugs with the higher values, tended to rob the sound of 'life', limiting high-frequency extension and vocal clarity, so the plugs with those values were fairly quickly rejected, but may well be used in other applications.
The goal it seems, of using these plugs is to 'tune' the optimal loading value for the cartridge, in order that the flattest frequency response is obtained, and when that's achieved, the subsequent benefits it brings, sonically, are very obvious: less 'grain', more openness/expansiveness throughout the frequency range, with sweeter highs and the removal of a slight 'spitty' quality and 'glare' to vocals ,plus a more textured and mellifluous sounding midrange, and cleaner more rhythmic bass.
In short, adding the loading plugs in question in my system has notably 'tidied up' the sound [and you simply won't realise that such may be necessary until you hear the effect for yourself], giving music more 'body', depth, poise and refinement, together with increased clarity and a greater sense 'effortlessness', such that there is now ZERO listener fatigue with any music played.
This results in the SC35C sailing through even the most demanding of material with consummate ease, thus promoting long listening sessions, exploring one's music collection, album after album!:)
In all honesty, loading plugs like these are absolutely essential, in terms of optimising the performance of any MM cartridge and really making it 'sing'... In that respect, I can say that they are vital in order to hear what any good MM can do, and also that the Shure SC35C benefits *SIGNIFICANTLY* from their use.
So if you've got one and think it sounds superb on its own, without the need for adding more capacitance, as indeed I mistakenly did, then *think again*...!
The truth is, you really haven't heard the SC35C at its best until the loading value has been optimally 'tuned', by adding, in my case, an extra 150pF of capacitance. It was good before, but my goodness, it's an even better cartridge than I thought it was, bouncing music along now with the most infectious [I]joie de vivre and dynamic alacrity!:eek:
My advice? If you want to REALLY hear what the incredible (for the money) SC35C can do, or indeed any other high-quality MM cartridge, then I strongly recommend that your order a DBP-6 capacitor loading kit from Acoustic Sounds: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Turntable_Accessories
Trust me, it'll be one of the best £30, or so, you'll spend on your vinyl set-up, and which will reward you tenfold, in terms of increasing the overall enjoyment of your favourite music on vinyl!:cool:
Marco.
Surprised there's been no comments on the loading plugs, as some of you, Adrian included, had said you were interested in what they did!:ner:;)
Barry wasn't far off with the amount of added capacitance needed... Turned out to be 150pF, not 180. Anyway, these have just arrived from the US: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?70424-The-Marco-boy-main-system-as-of-August-2020&p=1218351#post1218351
So will be trying them out later, just to see if there's any difference between between them, sonically, and the NOS one already on the cartridge:)
Marco.
kininigin
10-09-2020, 13:22
Hi Marco,hope you are well. Very interesting read this thread has been.Especially what you have written about the SC35C and the loading plugs. I'm also a big big fan of this cartridge, so any possibilty of improving what it can do always gets my interest and if adding the Funk Houdini changes the game, then i can only imagine how much better it can get!
I'll start small and order the loading plugs and see what that brings to the party.
Opti-cal
10-09-2020, 14:24
Hi Chris,
In terms of the bits in bold, most certainly. The first bit I've also heard for myself, and have tried various "shims" made from different materials, such as graphite, exotic hardwoods and brass - all made improvements in slightly different ways, but there's no doubt that most cartridges, certainly moving-coils, benefit from a bit of added mass, and the Houdini provides that with its 2g weight.
However, that's just a side show... The 'main event', as it were, is the isolation and decoupling effect it provides, which touching upon the latter (above) is designed and engineered, in order to tackle the two aforementioned issues WAY more effectively than any wooden, plastic or metal "shim". Therefore rest assured, that if you try a Houdini, it will outperform ANY other such device you've used to date, and in a way that will amaze you!:cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco,
thanks for taking the time to explain its virtues, as you say it should all become more clear upon listening . . .
I'm certainly looking for a way to divert some funds towards it right now, as compared to a lot of 'upgrades/tweaks' etc, it sounds like a leap rather than just a step.
Also scratching the surface of loading plugs myself but I will reply to your more recent post about them.
I'm super busy at the moment trying to sort out some unscheduled but necessary work on my new house (BALL ACHE!!) which is taking up my usual 'buggering about on AOS' time.
Typical, just when a subject directly relating to things I've been doing at the moment pops up, I'm at my least active.
Hopefully carve out some time soon, priorities!
Cheers
Opti-cal
10-09-2020, 14:50
Surprised there's been no comments on the loading plugs, as some of you, Adrian included, had said you were interested in what they did!:ner:;)
Barry wasn't far off with the amount of added capacitance needed... Turned out to be 150pF, not 180. Anyway, these have just arrived from the US: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?70424-The-Marco-boy-main-system-as-of-August-2020&p=1218351#post1218351
So will be fitting one later, just to see if there's any difference between between it and the NOS one already on the cartridge:)
Marco.
So, after reading a few comments regarding how beneficial it is to tweak/load the capacitance of most MM carts I thought I'd give it a go too. The cartridge in question is just a very humble Ortofon OM type with an OM10 stylus. The cartridge body remains the same however, all the way up to the semi-exotic OM40 so upgrades are incredibly simple and once the cart is perfectly aligned you can just forget about it and swap the styli in 5 seconds flat! Part of its appeal, anyway. . . .
I'd heard this particular cartridge really does like a few picofarads 'up it' (somewhere in the region of 400) so I came across these on the god ol bay.
https://i.ibb.co/TgMnKXn/s-l1600.jpg (https://ibb.co/71tTgcT)
They're basically just an RCA plug added to the circuit using a 'Y' splitter, so the signal travels through but the plugs add around 220pf. It has a resistor neatly soldered into the send/return lugs of the plug providing the capacitance. As the cable and phono plugs are usually around 150pf themselves, the approximate total brings it nicely into the carts 'peak' operating levels (by all accounts) around 370-400pf.
Not quite as versatile or indeed flexible as yours but they certainly do the job.
The chap actually included (at my request as they were on some of his other lots) some much better gold plated Y splitters, so that is what I received.
Like these:
https://i.ibb.co/qNxr4N7/s-l1600-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/rxvwLxF)
I've got to say that everything sounds better. The technical explanation involves flattening out the cartridges response to more closely follow the RIAA standard (I think).
As I say I'm barely scratching the surface here, I've played around with the loading of MC carts before using dip switches and pots on phono stages that allow the adjustment, but my current phono stage (although having an MC input also) offers no such adjustment to either type.
Links below:
Loading plugs: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phono-Cartridge-Loading-Plugs-220pf/254627897325?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Y splitters: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Plated-RCA-Phono-Splitter-1-Plug-2-Sockets-Audio-Y-Adaptor-PAIR-PHOSPL01/151103810623?epid=1528534737&hash=item232e7d2c3f:g:BmQAAOSwFJBZVit7
I'll be interested to see how things develop regarding the Houdini and playing around with the loading plugs.
Cheers
Beobloke
10-09-2020, 15:33
Surprised there's been no comments on the loading plugs, as some of you, Adrian included, had said you were interested in what they did!:ner:;)
That's 'cos we've all got nice modern cartridges that don't need fudging...
;) :D :ner:
RobbieGong
10-09-2020, 16:27
That's 'cos we've all got nice modern cartridges that don't need fudging...
;) :D :ner:
:lol:
Hi Marco,hope you are well. Very interesting read this thread has been.Especially what you have written about the SC35C and the loading plugs. I'm also a big big fan of this cartridge, so any possibilty of improving what it can do always gets my interest and if adding the Funk Houdini changes the game, then i can only imagine how much better it can get!
I'll start small and order the loading plugs and see what that brings to the party.
Hi Darren,
Long time no hear, mate! Hope you're well:) I'm fine, just enjoying getting back into some hi-fi shenanigans after somewhat of a hiatus! No big reason for that, just other things to occupy my time.
Nice one on the loading plugs... Trust me, if you get the values right, you'll hear a significant improvement in all the areas I've mentioned. There a lot of latent potential with the SC35C waiting to be released once it's been loaded correctly!
In your set up though, you may need to use a different plug value, as much will depend on the capacitance of your existing tonearm cable, but I reckon the sweet spot will be somewhere between adding a further 150-250pF.
Anyway, let me know how you get on with the plugs when they arrive. If you're getting them from the same source as me, tell them to ensure that the black 100 ohms plugs are included, for tuning MCs, just in case you get into that, as they forget to put those in with my order, although they've rectified that now.
Marco.
So, after reading a few comments regarding how beneficial it is to tweak/load the capacitance of most MM carts I thought I'd give it a go too. The cartridge in question is just a very humble Ortofon OM type with an OM10 stylus. The cartridge body remains the same however, all the way up to the semi-exotic OM40 so upgrades are incredibly simple and once the cart is perfectly aligned you can just forget about it and swap the styli in 5 seconds flat! Part of its appeal, anyway. . . .
I'd heard this particular cartridge really does like a few picofarads 'up it' (somewhere in the region of 400) so I came across these on the god ol bay.
https://i.ibb.co/TgMnKXn/s-l1600.jpg (https://ibb.co/71tTgcT)
They're basically just an RCA plug added to the circuit using a 'Y' splitter, so the signal travels through but the plugs add around 220pf. It has a resistor neatly soldered into the send/return lugs of the plug providing the capacitance. As the cable and phono plugs are usually around 150pf themselves, the approximate total brings it nicely into the carts 'peak' operating levels (by all accounts) around 370-400pf.
Not quite as versatile or indeed flexible as yours but they certainly do the job.
The chap actually included (at my request as they were on some of his other lots) some much better gold plated Y splitters, so that is what I received.
Like these:
https://i.ibb.co/qNxr4N7/s-l1600-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/rxvwLxF)
I've got to say that everything sounds better. The technical explanation involves flattening out the cartridges response to more closely follow the RIAA standard (I think).
As I say I'm barely scratching the surface here, I've played around with the loading of MC carts before using dip switches and pots on phono stages that allow the adjustment, but my current phono stage (although having an MC input also) offers no such adjustment to either type.
Links below:
Loading plugs: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phono-Cartridge-Loading-Plugs-220pf/254627897325?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Y splitters: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Plated-RCA-Phono-Splitter-1-Plug-2-Sockets-Audio-Y-Adaptor-PAIR-PHOSPL01/151103810623?epid=1528534737&hash=item232e7d2c3f:g:BmQAAOSwFJBZVit7
I'll be interested to see how things develop regarding the Houdini and playing around with the loading plugs.
Cheers
Excellent stuff, Chris. For the above and your previous post. I'm sure we can swap notes on our respective journeys with 'tuning' our MM cartridges!:)
So how would you describe the improvement you heard when fitting the plugs - was it along similar lines to what I've described? I've also ordered a set of those Y-adapters, as I like how they're made.
Marco.
That's 'cos we've all got nice modern cartridges that don't need fudging...
;) :D :ner:
Lol - very good!
However, you're not seriously suggesting that there's no potential mileage in experimenting with loading values on modern cartridges, both MMs and MCs? Neither are immune from benefiting in that way, especially MCs! :exactly:
It's not only vintage cartridges that are likely to respond well to such optimisation.
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
10-09-2020, 20:46
Hi Marco,
Your undergoing the same experiment I went through a new of months ago, in that your trying to correctly get the SC35C to "see" that correct amount of capacitance. My M55E likes to see 450-500 pf according to the Shure website. All connecting leads carry a certain amount of capacitance, I did a quick and dirty calculation based on an audit on everything that sits between your cartridge pins and the the RCA lead going into your Croft phono stage, which unfortunately has no facility to use RCA loading plugs. The components between your cartridge and the croft MM phonostage include :-
(These are the known values of my own systems personal components, yours will be different).
15pf per channel = 30 pf intrinsic wiring of the tonearm
10pf per RCA = 10 pf RCA
60pf tonearm cable = 60 pf tonearm cable
10pf cartridge tags+leads = 10 pf (SPECULATION)
20pf for tonearm connector = 20 pf (SPECULATION)
so this equals ~115pf of capacitance, so we are approximately 335 pf short, so you use two 335pf RCA loading plugs for the M55E to "SEE" its required 450pf. This will of course be different for the SC35C (I don't know what it likes to "SEE", pf wise), it will also differ because we have different RCA plugs, tonearm cables and intrinsic wiring of tonearms. You need to individually work out each components pf level and then deduct that from the SC35C's suggested "SEEN" capacitance. Your RCA values will be the difference between the two values. This is a more accurate way of "tuning" the thing by ear, of course you may prefer it that way. I hope this helps.
Finally, did you do your loading tests at the same time as trialling the Houdini? If so, how can you confidently attribute your experiences to the Houdini and not the optimal capacitance loading? Just a thought.....
Hi Andy,
All good (and useful) points, which are noted:)
Barry did a basic calculation for me earlier about how much capacitance the SC35C likes to 'see', which he roughly worked out as 180pF [on top of what capacitance already exists], and which in practice, judging by ear, seems pretty spot on.
At the moment I'm using 150pF plugs, but will get some 180pF ones custom-made, as I think that's where the sweet spot lies... 150 sounds fab (although could possibly be marginally bettered), and 200 is too much, including any figure over that.
This sort of experimenting though has been a real revelation, as it pretty much renders every MM cartridge I've ever used as not having been heard optimally!:eek:
No, I assessed the Houdini independently of the loading plugs, so I know exactly what both are doing/have done.
So when are you treating yourself to an 'H'? Your system definitely deserves one;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
10-09-2020, 21:13
Hi Andy,
All good (and useful) points, which are noted:)
Barry did a basic calculation for me earlier about how much the capacitance the SC35C wants to 'see', which he roughly worked out as 180pF, and which in practice, judging by ear, seems pretty spot on.
At the moment I'm using 150pF plugs, but will get some 180pF ones custom-made, as I think that's where the sweet spot lies... 150 sounds fab (although could possible be marginally bettered), and 200 is too much, including any figure over that.
This sort of experimenting though has been a real revelation, as it pretty much renders every MM cartridge I've ever used as not having been heard optimally!:eek:
No, I assessed the Houdini independently of the loading plugs, so I know exactly what both are doing/have done:)
So when are you treating yourself to an 'H'? Your system definitely deserves one;)
Marco.
Ah that's great news, glad to hear your not far off what the SC35C needs to "SEE". I've only done this with the M55E so I will have to do it all again when the stylii arrive from the USA and JAPAN. Yes, it's an eye opener what these old MM carts can do. I had my EAR 834P clone modded to accept RCA loading plugs ages ago by Alan and It's the best thing I did, I'll not be turning back now. All MM's will be loaded and assessed this way. Good to see that you have been seeing positive increments with your system. I'm not sure when I'll try the "H", I want to assess the stylii for the SC35C and that may take some time and the additional optimal loading the RCA plugs. I've sent you a PM detailing another couple of tweaks that might interest you and which may add something further to your system. Additionally I notice your using a sorbothane modded record weight, I have some 10mm sorbothane in my garage and my well try to modify my current pure copper record puck to see if this gains any additional benefit. I have started to make provision to try a "H" in that I'm just in the process of making a new Panzerholz tonearm mount for my SME3012 with an extra amount of vertical height which should help out should I try a "H". Check you inbox!
kininigin
10-09-2020, 21:27
All good here Marco,
Just lost the post that i just wrote as i got signed out for some reason. How annoying.
So quick reply, tonearm cable is a silvercord plus with 35pF. I did order from same source but before i had seen your post, so will double check on the 100 ohms plugs as i have recently bought an SPU.
Looking forward to playing with loading.
Opti-cal
11-09-2020, 07:10
Excellent stuff, Chris. For the above and your previous post. I'm sure we can swap notes on our respective journeys with 'tuning' our MM cartridges!:)
So how would you describe the improvement you heard when fitting the plugs - was it along similar lines to what I've described? I've also ordered a set of those Y-adapters, as I like how they're made.
Marco.
Well to summerize without using too many subjective superlatives (which people seem to jump on with criticism, even if they know EXACTLY what you mean), there is definitely more air right through the frequency range. This does not mean there are gaps in the sound, just that the music has a lot more room to breath. In comparison to before the loading was optimal, you can tell that the sound was a bit congested. Not having this reference to work from I didn't really think too much was wrong, until I heard the difference.
That's key here, the reference that experimentation can provide. It really helps you judge if something is worth persevering with or not. Result good or bad, then go from there.
The plugs are useful actually as a lot of phono stages which do offer adjustment, often have the switches/jumpers located either on the underside of the stage or indeed internally. With the RCA sockets being loaded with plugs, its a 2 second job, no need for screwdrivers or reading glasses!
It's slightly liberating that I've recently gone 'back' to MM carts actually. I have an Audio Technica AT-OC9XEN on my LP12 and its a lovely cart but I find myself choosing to play most records on my LP5 (direct drive) with the OM10 and loading plugs on at the moment. Not because it sounds better (although the gap isn't huge), but because it provides me with the most 'bang for buck' enjoyment factor.
I'm not exactly counting the hours on the OC9 (although I have a rough idea to within 10 hours+/-) but with the OM10 I'll happily just let it play grooves all day (and all night) long, then replace it once a year or less often. For £50 I can more than live with that.
I've certainly learned to cut my cloth accordingly regarding hifi (among other 'interests') recently, another reason I'm afraid I will just have to hold fire on the Houdini (for now). Reason being I'm not quite sure how some building work will pan out and can't justify it to myself this minute (I may feel differently at any time though!). Can I afford it? Yes, can I also wait for and appreciate it in time? Also yes. Wow, my 20 year old self is shaking his head in disbelief, 'what happened, you used to be cool man' . . . .
Anyway, also interesting what Andrew (REXTON) has to say there, clearly done a lot more experimentation in the area, so fair play! I too have an 834p clone fettled by Alan but the addition of the loading plug RCA's sounds very intriguing. Seems there is a lot more to be squeezed out of a lot of MM carts.
Will be interested to see if any more 'developments' are in the pipeline Marco, got anything planned??
Chris
Firebottle
11-09-2020, 08:18
I settled for the 'Brown' ones rated at 150pF.
I'm really surprised Steve (Pygmy Pony) hasn't commented on this, maybe too technical a thread.
It's just your colour Marco :laugh:
carruthersesq
11-09-2020, 13:18
great reading through this thread.
I have just been in contact with Arthur and placed my order for a Houdini to fit to my Funk Firm LSD with Funk F5 tonearm. I'm eagerly waiting on delivery now. :)
Wakefield Turntables
11-09-2020, 19:31
Anyway, also interesting what Andrew (REXTON) has to say there, clearly done a lot more experimentation in the area, so fair play! I too have an 834p clone fettled by Alan but the addition of the loading plug RCA's sounds very intriguing. Seems there is a lot more to be squeezed out of a lot of MM carts.
Chris
Chris, I did a lot of lateral thinking when conducting my experiments. I gained more enjoyment seeing how things could be done cheaply but retaining maximum positive sonic impact. I'm also quite happy spending money when needed. Currently I'm evaluating the my vintage MM collection with 5N pure silver cartridge leads, Orsonic head shell + vintage NOS and latest JICO stylii. I don't think we can do any more to push these vintage masters anything, well perhaps the "H" as well?
All good here Marco,
Just lost the post that i just wrote as i got signed out for some reason. How annoying.
So quick reply, tonearm cable is a silvercord plus with 35pF. I did order from same source but before i had seen your post, so will double check on the 100 ohms plugs as i have recently bought an SPU.
Looking forward to playing with loading.
Nightmare, mate. Wee tip, well two, actually... Firstly, always ensure that you tick the "Remember Me' box when signing onto the forum, as that way your posts won't time out, and secondly, just as an extra precaution, COPY your posts before you hit the 'Reply' button;)
Nice one on the SPU! Which one did you get?:)
Marco.
Hi Chris,
Well to summerize without using too many subjective superlatives (which people seem to jump on with criticism, even if they know EXACTLY what you mean), there is definitely more air right through the frequency range. This does not mean there are gaps in the sound, just that the music has a lot more room to breath. In comparison to before the loading was optimal, you can tell that the sound was a bit congested. Not having this reference to work from I didn't really think too much was wrong, until I heard the difference.
Yup, I completely agree, as I heard the same effect. For me, it's all down to achieving a cleaner/more accurate treble response, thus reducing distortion, and the lack of that happy situation (due to incorrect loading/insufficient capacitance), ably reveals itself on 'hot', or 'hotter', recordings, where the top-end can get a little 'spitty'.
It's slightly liberating that I've recently gone 'back' to MM carts actually. I have an Audio Technica AT-OC9XEN on my LP12 and its a lovely cart but I find myself choosing to play most records on my LP5 (direct drive) with the OM10 and loading plugs on at the moment. Not because it sounds better (although the gap isn't huge), but because it provides me with the most 'bang for buck' enjoyment factor.
I'm not exactly counting the hours on the OC9 (although I have a rough idea to within 10 hours+/-) but with the OM10 I'll happily just let it play grooves all day (and all night) long, then replace it once a year or less often. For £50 I can more than live with that.
Yup, I know exactly what you mean. You also tend to forgive any failings there are more when you haven't spent a fortune on something, and the overall experience therefore just tends to be more fun! Also, quality MMs often have a weightier, more secure and 'grounded' sound than many MCs, which can often sound too 'delicate and airy' or subtle [lacking 'balls'] for their own good, and of course be rather fiddly to set up!
You should try a Shure SC35C, as fitted with a NOS stylus and correctly loaded, it'll see off pretty much any MM on the market (I kid you not), and in the areas where it excels, many MCs! It really is THAT good, providing you can supply it with sufficient mass and facilitate tracking at 4.5g (with appropriate levels of anti-skate).
I've certainly learned to cut my cloth accordingly regarding hifi (among other 'interests') recently, another reason I'm afraid I will just have to hold fire on the Houdini (for now). Reason being I'm not quite sure how some building work will pan out and can't justify it to myself this minute (I may feel differently at any time though!). Can I afford it? Yes, can I also wait for and appreciate it in time? Also yes. Wow, my 20 year old self is shaking his head in disbelief, 'what happened, you used to be cool man' . . . .
Lol... I get all that. However, what I could comfortably predict is that once you try one a) you won't be able to live without it, and b) wonder why you didn't get one sooner!:D:trust:
Will be interested to see if any more 'developments' are in the pipeline Marco, got anything planned??
Yes, I'm waiting on a new/NOS MC (Denon DL103GL) cartridge and SUT, plus a new headphone amp, coming from Japan, so looking forward to that, especially getting the cartridge singing with a Houdini!:cool:
Marco.
I'm really surprised Steve (Pygmy Pony) hasn't commented on this, maybe too technical a thread.
It's just your colour Marco :laugh:
Lol... You can beat a nice wee 'skid-mark brown' one!:D
Marco.
great reading through this thread.
I have just been in contact with Arthur and placed my order for a Houdini to fit to my Funk Firm LSD with Funk F5 tonearm. I'm eagerly waiting on delivery now. :)
Nice one, Steve. Be prepared to rediscover your record collection! And report back when you try it:)
Marco.
Currently I'm evaluating the my vintage MM collection with 5N pure silver cartridge leads, Orsonic head shell + vintage NOS and latest JICO stylii. I don't think we can do any more to push these vintage masters anything, well perhaps the "H" as well?
Remember what I said, Andy and the Houdini rendering the sonic signature/'flavour' of the arm and headshell virtually redundant...
Therefore, in terms of your above statement, try it the other way round, as in reality you will find the influence of the 'H' on your enjoyment of music to be far more significant than any of the other items you mention, trust me...;)
Marco.
I mentioned earlier on the thread that I was going to try some Furutech 'La Source' headshell leads, with the Denon DL-103GL, when it arrives, and I may still do eventually, but for moment I've pulled the trigger on a set of these, which I obtained from David Brooks (MCRU) at a very attractive price that was too good to say no!
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/Ce9WvH.jpg
I already use pure-silver Litz wire in my tonearm cables, and Kondo/AudioNote silver wiring is very highly regarded by the most discerning of audiophiles, as being the best, so I'm looking forward to hearing what the SL-115s do with the Denon!:cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
12-09-2020, 09:20
Those look quality Marco, As you know I use Ortofon's LW-800S, pure silver headshell lead wires and find them excellent.
Good silver lead wire brings that bit more clarity and information, instruments sound real ie: piano lines sound like a piano being played, bass has bass note and texture rather than boom/wool/fluff/muff , if you get my gist.
Hi-hat, cymbals shimmer, again with a more realistic/natural tone.
I'm sure this is in some part down to how the nature of pure silver transmits the signal IMO.
Those must be seriously top quality Marco at more or less double what the Ortofon's pure silver offering goes for.
Cheers, Rob, I've also used the AT ones before, and they're great, but like you say I think these will be another level. It's all in the purity of the silver and annealing process:)
This is what I like doing though, and my approach to audio: mixing the best of the old and new, and knowing exactly where to put both in a system, in order to get the most lifelike sound and musically addictive result;)
Marco.
A question, is the Shure SC35C really better than a Technics EPC-205, or a AT20SS? Both are top end MM carts.
Is the SC35C voiced differently to the M55?
Wakefield Turntables
12-09-2020, 11:37
A question, is the Shure SC35C really better than a Technics EPC-205, or a AT20SS? Both are top end MM carts.
Is the SC35C voiced differently to the M55?
1. Never heard either of them.
2. I'll let you know when I've a stylus to use on the SC35C!!
RobbieGong
12-09-2020, 11:45
Cheers, Rob, I've also used the AT ones before, and they're great, but like you say I think these will be another level. It's all in the purity of the silver and annealing process:)
This is what I like doing though, and my approach to audio: mixing the best of the old and new, and knowing exactly where to put both in a system, in order to get the most lifelike sound and musically addictive result;)
Marco.
:exactly:
Defo, bruv! Link to lheadshell eads in question: https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/kondo-audio-note-sl-115-silver-litz-cartridge-wires/
:cool:
Marco.
A question, is the Shure SC35C really better than a Technics EPC-205, or a AT20SS? Both are top end MM carts.
Is the SC35C voiced differently to the M55?
Hi Kevin,
I'll answer your question later (busy just now), as it deserves a proper response:)
Marco.
Hi Kevin,
I'll answer your question later (busy just now), as it deserves a proper response:)
Marco.
:thumbsup:
A question, is the Shure SC35C really better than a Technics EPC-205, or a AT20SS? Both are top end MM carts.
Is the SC35C voiced differently to the M55?
Ok... Firstly, as ever, "better" is entirely subjective. I'd put it simply that the SC35C isn't better than either of the above *in the areas in which they excel*, particularly the Technics, as that's a very special cartridge, and there are others still currently produced, such as the Nagaoka MP500, which would 'best' the Shure in certain areas.
However... The point I'm making is that the 'lowly' SC35C [I mean, before it was recently discontinued it was sold as a 'DJ cartridge', FFS:rolleyes:] is most certainly NOT in any way lowly, and largely misunderstood by both audiophiles and DJs alike, and so given its sonic prowess, was just stupidly priced (selling for around £60), I suspect rather like Denon and some AT MCs, due to economies of scale, coupled with decades of experience of making stereo pickups, which a company like Shure had, the SC35C was able to be produced cheaply and sold in its 1000s to radio stations and broadcasting studios around the world.
And *that* is how the SC35C should be judged: as a very well-engineered and reliable tool for broadcasting purposes, ably recognised for its sonic abilities by the BBC and used in their dedicated (high-mass) tonearm, designed specifically to partner it, and fitted onto the Gates, Technics and EMT turntables that graced their studios, from the 70s to the late 90s, together producing top-notch sound for their various music broadcasts.
I still remember with great affection, as a teenager in the 80s, listening to the Radio 1 Top 40 chart show on Sunday nights, hosted by Tommy Vance (and others), and marveling at the quality of sound [through the rather nice Sony tuner my dad had in the lounge back then], a show that like most youngsters then I'd record onto tape and play on my stereo or 'ghetto blaster' later - and a sound that still sticks in my mind to this day, which was bold, weighty, detailed, punchy and dynamic, and conveyed with palpable authority, such that the likes of the intro to Madonna's 'Crazy for You' would come thundering into the room through the speakers, with such gravitas!:eek:
Plus, tracks such as The Corgis 'Everyone's Got to Learn Sometime' sounding just simply magical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjfvSXclFlI
...in an really 'sparkly', hugely atmospheric way that gave you goosebumps, especially when that synth-violin kicks in! And other tracks such as Kate Bush's 'Babooshka' [shown below], sounding simply magical in a 'rhythmically adroit' and organic way that completely eludes the reedy sound produced now on radio stations, using digital technology, and which in comparison sounds thin, unconvincing and a-musical... Just a VERY poor relation to what once was!
https://youtu.be/8R-M4Ov8M3E
That is one sexy woman... Only she could make dancing with a double-bass look mesmerisingly erotic!:eek:
And so here's the point:
If you want to create a snapshot of that solid and weighty, 'unflappable' broadcast sound I've just described, which used to grace our airwaves back in the day, then a Shure SC35C (fitted *only* with NOS stylus), to a high-mass arm/headshell, and either a quality idler-driven or direct-drive turntable, plus phono stage, loading it correctly, will provide that experience. It's not a 'hi-fi sound' in the truest sense, although all the necessary traits are there, but just a lovely rich, big-boned, dynamic sound you can 'relax into' and enjoy, and which no matter the music played never fails to put a smile on your face!
In essence, therefore, *THAT* is what an SC35C is all about, and which simply isn't found in any other cartridge I've heard, modern or vintage, save the Denon DL-103, and certainly not a Shure M55, as good as that is in its own right. I hope that successfully gets across what I like about the SC35C, and what it does so well when used and set-up optimally:cool:
Marco.
Ok, I've been looking for one of these for YEARS, but they are super-rare, usually more than double the price and located in Japan! So it was refreshing to see a minty one for sale in the UK, and for such a good price:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAGAOKA-GL601-RECORD-STABILISER-CRYSTAL-VINTAGE-RARE-VINYL-WEIGHT-BOXED-EXC/174341181110?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/7SOsmM.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/oVWKEi.jpg
It will partner my Nagaoka crystal glass mat:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/IIWW8K.jpg
The mat on its own sounds superb, so it'll be interesting to hear how it works as a combo, as indeed it was originally designed to work:)
Honestly though, I've seen the stabiliser alone sell for upwards of £200, and ditto the mat, as both are very rare and sought after vintage classics! So I'm well chuffed at scoring the stabiliser for £85!
Also, and this is particularly exciting... Arthur has sent me an improved version of the Achromat to try, and which looks great but I haven't yet assessed. I'm hoping that it'll not only be the best mat I've heard (perhaps trumping the Nagaoka), but also form a synergistic partnership with the Houdini, as both have been designed to work together.
Full report on all of the above in due course!:cool:
Marco.
That gets your point across quite nicely, and gives me a good reason to avoid it, as I don’t have a high mass tonearm, so would not get the best out of it. I will stick with the two I mentioned.
Yups, you wouldn't really hear the best of it in your system. Pretty much every cartridge I like is low-compliance, so needs a high-mass arm:)
Marco.
Y splitters: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Plated-RCA-Phono-Splitter-1-Plug-2-Sockets-Audio-Y-Adaptor-PAIR-PHOSPL01/151103810623?epid=1528534737&hash=item232e7d2c3f:g:BmQAAOSwFJBZVit7
Just a 'shout out' for Chris, who posted earlier about the above Y-splitters. I ordered a set (and how nicely made they are), as it's a neater solution than the wired connectors that came with my set of loading plugs, and I thought potentially might sound better.
And I'm pleased to report that they do! Not 'night and day' better, but definitely they produce an overall 'tidier' and more solid sound, subjectively 'quieter', too... The reason for that I'm guessing is due to the difference in capacitance between the short run of cables I was using and the 'hard-wired' gold-plated brass splitters, using the same 150pF loading plugs.
Anyway, for £8 it's a nice little upgrade and I'd recommend others experimenting with loading plugs to invest in these splitters, as they offer a very solid, good sounding and reliable connection:thumbsup:
Marco.
matodono1
13-09-2020, 01:13
Ok, I've been looking for one of these for YEARS, but they are super-rare and also usually more than double the price, and located in Japan! So it was refreshing to see a minty one for sale in the UK, and for such a good price:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAGAOKA-GL601-RECORD-STABILISER-CRYSTAL-VINTAGE-RARE-VINYL-WEIGHT-BOXED-EXC/174341181110?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/7SOsmM.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/oVWKEi.jpg
It will partner my Nagaoka crystal glass mat:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/IIWW8K.jpg
The mat on its own sounds superb, so it'll be interesting to hear how it works as a combo, as indeed it was originally designed to work:)
Honestly though, I've seen the stabiliser alone sell for upwards of £200, and ditto the mat, as both are very rare and sought after vintage classics! So I'm well chuffed at scoring the stabiliser for £85!
Also, and this is particularly exciting... Arthur has sent me an improved version of the Achromat to try, and which looks great but I haven't yet assessed. I'm hoping that it'll not only be the best mat I've heard (perhaps trumping the Nagaoka), but also form a synergistic partnership with the Houdini, as both have been designed to work together.
Full report on all of the above in due course!:cool:
Marco.
Very exciting cannot wait!
Yes indeed, and all will be revealed soon!:)
Marco.
matodono1
13-09-2020, 07:47
Yes, but will it be better than the 'Achromat+' Arthur has sent me?
All will be revealed soon!
Marco. :)
You're such a tease! :)
I still remember with great affection, as a teenager in the 80s, listening to the Radio 1 Top 40 chart show on Sunday nights, hosted by Tommy Vance (and others), and marveling at the quality of sound [through the rather nice Sony tuner my dad had in the lounge back then], a show that like most youngsters then I'd record onto tape and play on my stereo or 'ghetto blaster' later - and a sound that still sticks in my mind to this day, which was bold, weighty, detailed, punchy and dynamic, and conveyed with palpable authority...
This is the sort of thing I was on about:
https://youtu.be/KsZ17taBNgs
Turn the volume up and have a listen to that.. Now I know it's compressed to buggery on YouTube, but despite that I still think it sounds fab, and if you've got any kind of 'ear' at all, even through this compromised medium [although the chap in question has preserved a good recording], you should be able to hear the type of sound I've described produced by the Shure!:)
I suspect during that era, a Gates CB-500 was used, with the SC35C strapped onto a Grey Research 108-C tonearm:
https://youtu.be/dGPoz6WXfgc
The above video must be watched directly on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/poQ1SZJmkco
Now that tank-like thing is defo what you call 'high-mass'!!:eek::D
Yup, that's the combo you were likely listening to spinning the tunes on BBC radio, during the 70s to mid 80s!:cool:
No way does Radio 1 (or R2) sound like that now, SQ-wise, with the streaming shite they use to play music...:nono:
Marco.
Opti-cal
14-09-2020, 07:08
You should try a Shure SC35C, as fitted with a NOS stylus and correctly loaded
As its a rubber stamped recommendation from the horses mouth, its become a priority. I think I need to hear one . . . . likewise on the Houdini . . . . I'll be selling a few bits and pieces in the near future so that will offset the cost somewhat (or at least that's what I'll tell myself to justify it!!).
Just a 'shout out' for Chris,
a very solid, good sounding and reliable connection:thumbsup:
Marco.
No problem Marco, glad they do the trick for you too.
I subscribe to the explanation regarding the removal of extra capacitance of the cable etc (now being just a solid plug rather than any actual cable involved). I've actually often wondered if a 'male to male' (ooo errr Mrs) plug of similar construction would bring sonic benefits when used straight from a DAC or phono stage connection into the pre-amp in. If you don't need to see the front of your DAC or phono stage it kind of makes sense assuming you have a shelf/space to facilitate such a configuration.
Anyway, I digress, keep sharing your findings as it looks like we're on the same page regarding sonic attributes and also our 'aims' regarding equipment. I appreciate all the little tweaks 'can' work in some systems. To a more or lesser degree and sometimes not at all, but its fun to try and super satisfying when you do pull them off, especially when they don't cost the earth!
Cheers
Hi Chris,
Nice one on the Shure and Houdini. I'm SHURE you'll be delighted with both, lol!:D
I also agree with you about the jumpers. I thought I'd have to choose a different value of loading plugs, after having 'lost' the capacitance of the leads, as it were, but the 150pF ones I'd been using were still fine. Sound is defo better, though:)
Did you listen to the YouTube video I posted of the Top 40 chart show in 1982, and the quality of the sound that was produced then? If you did, hopefully you can hear where I'm coming from about the SC35C, used within the 'infrastructure' it was intended to be used.
Here's another clip, this time from the same show in 1987, when the Beeb were using EMT 950s, with the same cartridge:
https://youtu.be/MjSx6-SAqH4
Fast forward to 1.04.30 and listen to Jelly bean's 'Who Found Who'?...
It may not be your type of music, but just listen to that lovely weighty, solid and rhythmic bass line! That's something that digital struggles to achieve in comparison (and a trait of the SC35C)!
:dance:
Marco.
It may not be your type of music, but just listen to that lovely weighty, solid and rhythmic bass line! That's something that digital struggles to achieve in comparison (and a trait of the SC35C)!
:dance:
Marco.
Well clearly it doesn't since your example is itself a digital transcription....on the other hand I do agree about the decline in sound quality from radio, thin and a bit scratchy nowadays compared to what it was.
Opti-cal
14-09-2020, 12:27
Hi Chris,
Nice one on the Shure and Houdini. I'm SHURE you'll be delighted with both, lol!:D
Did you listen to the YouTube video I posted of the Top 40 chart show in 1982, and the quality of the sound that was produced then? If you did, hopefully you can hear where I'm coming from about the SC35C, used within the 'infrastructure' it was intended to be used.
Just had a listen to that Marco,
that juicy, full bodied sound comes through regardless of playback system I think. It just fills the frequency range very, very nicely. I think sometimes (and I've been guilty of this myself on occasion) people are just listening out for cues and nuances which they know 'should' jump out of the mix and impress them. Maybe they've heard the track on playback systems which (over) emphasizes a certain sound/instrument/voice and any which don't reproduce what they expect to hear are deemed inferior.
Fact is if it boogies it boogies, I get more boogie factor with vinyl/analogue playback. The detail and transparency achieved using my digital components can be very enjoyable but swapping to my vinyl rig and playing the same song is (nearly) always no contest. To be honest I've never done a comparison of digital vs vinyl and thought 'oh there's some detail missing there from the vinyl', although technically likely true, the vinyl just has that bounce and boogie factor.
Maybe I haven't come across the right DAC/streamer setup (and the DAC I'm currently using is on the very budget end) to compete with the vinyl on this front at least. Where the digital does win however, is separation, instrument placement and ultimate sub (20Hz and below) bass. Although its certainly not as 'rich' sounding and ultimately, enjoyable.
Nothing wrong with those tunes, good music is good music. I often reference a lot of my electronic, ambient stuff on the threads here but I have a firm grounding in all the good stuff.
Flashbacks of chucking a cassette in my dads Nakamichi (BX2?) I think it was (the twin head though, not the triple bad boy) and being consumed by its analogue 'tapey' sound. Slightly akin to an old skool 'loudness' button being on, everything just sounded a bit bigger an beefier.
Well clearly it doesn't since your example is itself a digital transcription....on the other hand I do agree about the decline in sound quality from radio, thin and a bit scratchy nowadays compared to what it was.
Lol - I can hear through the digital transcription and still readily identify the sonic characteristics of the vinyl source, just like I do with the 'needledrops' I produce - not a problem - and that lovely 'juicy' and full-bodied bass is defo a characteristic of both the Shure cartridge used and the EMT turntable and arm it was on:)
If the music had been reproduced via a digital source, the bass wouldn't have sounded like that. Yes, the digital process can faithfully reproduce the qualities of the analogue source, but not PUT them there in the first place - that's my point!
Totally agree with you on the 'thin and scratchy' nature of the sound on commercial radio these days, and much of that is down to them simply playing computer files on not particularly good equipment. If it was CDs, through the likes of the BBC Technics player you've got, it would be a different ball game!
So it's not that digital music is crap [you know that's not my view anyway], but rather how radio stations are choosing to reproduce it these days... However, it still sounded better when it was turntables and vinyl, and 'DJ' (DISC jockey) actually meant something!:cool:
Marco.
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