View Full Version : Replacing binding posts
Hello Chaps,
I would like to replace my Devons binding posts. I would not dare to try to remove the plastic case, it will break.
Did anyone ever remove the posts from his speakers?
Cheers,
Horacio
WullieD20
21-08-2020, 09:23
I'm not familiar with the Devons, but first question would be how to gain access to the inside of the cabinet? (more photos could be useful?).
Possibly by removal of the bass driver? Thus providing access to the fastenings securing the binding post housing in place. If this is the case you should be able to withdraw the binding post unit sufficiently to disconnect the inner cables and devise a method to replace the binding posts - or the complete unit.
Good luck.
walpurgis
21-08-2020, 10:01
I'm not familiar with the Devons, but first question would be how to gain access to the inside of the cabinet? (more photos could be useful?).
Possibly by removal of the bass driver? Thus providing access to the fastenings securing the binding post housing in place. If this is the case you should be able to withdraw the binding post unit sufficiently to disconnect the inner cables and devise a method to replace the binding posts - or the complete unit.
Good luck.
That's more or less it.
Lay the speaker on its back, undo the mounting bolts and remove the driver (sometimes they need a bit of prizing free), very carefully pull out the four pin plug and put the driver in a safe place. Unscrew the terminal plate (you may need to pull foam aside) and it should come free. Sometimes there may be mastic material holding it, then take care, but it should still prize loose. Then you can unsolder the wires, undo the old terminals and fit modern ones. Avoid tall ones and those with plastic tops, as they get broken.
I used this sort last time: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Plated-4mm-Speaker-Binding-Post-Red-Black/163403308695?epid=28020032392&hash=item260b989e97:g:dpAAAOSwjatd8J~a
spendorman
21-08-2020, 11:39
I did my Devon binding post years ago, as above, but I don't remember having to take out the terminal plate, but I could be wrong.
At the time I used Maplin binding posts, not too unlike the ones Geoff suggests.
walpurgis
21-08-2020, 11:44
You can do it with the terminal plate is situ, but I found it easier to take it out. Saves all that poking about inside with a soldering iron.
spendorman
21-08-2020, 11:50
Thinking back, my plates were stuck in very well and would not come out easily.
Yes, the plates are stuck in well, I do not want to touch the driver, I noticed that the posts have two slots on each side.
anthonyTD
21-08-2020, 14:07
Hi Horacio,
You asked for advice, and you have been given good advice by those who have already completed the job! :scratch:
Yes, the plates are stuck in well, I do not want to touch the driver, I noticed that the posts have two slots on each side.
WullieD20
21-08-2020, 16:20
Hi Horacio,
You asked for advice, and you have been given good advice by those who have already completed the job! :scratch:
Ha ha...... I find it curiously amusing that people ask for advice and subsequently receive a whole host of suggestions, but then reject the advice for whatever reason ???
Seems to happen quite a lot in the hi-fi fraternity.... :mental:
That is true, just look at my response to the request for help with the Thorens belt and pulley speed change problem.
I gave a thorough analysis of the problem from a designer's point of view, writing an analysis in clear and explicit detail with a correct solution, using very clear English, (I used to write technical reports for the Scientific Instrument Research Association), and it seems to have been ignored, but another ready and simple answer thanked for. Why do I bother?
Matthew 7:6
(My advice for what it's worth is leave it alone. Nothing wrong with the binding posts Tannoy put in. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Especially if you're not comfortable doing surgery on your speakers).
spendorman
21-08-2020, 20:45
Matthew 7:6
(My advice for what it's worth is leave it alone. Nothing wrong with the binding posts Tannoy put in. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Especially if you're not comfortable doing surgery on your speakers).
The only reason I changed mine was to make connection easier as most of my other speakers used 4mm banana plugs.
HarryCrumb
22-08-2020, 00:27
That is true, just look at my response to the request for help with the Thorens belt and pulley speed change problem.
Why do I bother?
...because some of us really appreciate the advice. :)
I upgraded the posts on my Eatons because the holes just just didn't seem big enough to take the cable I envisioned using, plus I wanted the option of banana plugs. They're the same as the OP's image. I had to enlarge the hole in the backplate just a little bit to get the new ones in, but If you choose well you could find some to fit. Definitely will need to take the driver out, and the backplate will come out without much persuasion as mentioned.
But, I would agree with Macca and say don't bother if you're not comfortable doing the work. I don't think you'll hear the difference.
walpurgis
22-08-2020, 07:14
I don't think you'll hear the difference.
You probably won't, but the standard posts are a pain to use and don't accept bananas.
anthonyTD
22-08-2020, 09:04
Because as others have said your efforts [and the many others here who take the time to offer sound advice] are appreciated Dennis.:)
That is true, just look at my response to the request for help with the Thorens belt and pulley speed change problem.
I gave a thorough analysis of the problem from a designer's point of view, writing an analysis in clear and explicit detail with a correct solution, using very clear English, (I used to write technical reports for the Scientific Instrument Research Association), and it seems to have been ignored, but another ready and simple answer thanked for.
Why do I bother?
Because as others have said your efforts [and the many others here who take the time to offer sound advice] are appreciated Dennis.:)
+1, however, as helpful and as thorough as you wish your advice to be, you should also keep it as short and to the point as possible, and not too technical (unless you know that the person receiving the advice genuinely understands the technicalities), as the attention span of most people these days isn't what it once was!;)
Therefore, if they have to trawl through reams of text (no matter how well-written or presented), in order to glean the information they want, they're going to get bored. For example, I always switch off when I see graphs, as I rarely understand what exactly they're supposed to illustrate...
Sorry, that's just how it is, especially as the vast majority of people will be accessing the site via a smartphone, and so why shorter, but arguably less erudite responses will often be acknowledged instead, simply because they take less time to read and are quicker to respond to!
'Tis the nature of the beast, unfortunately, but don't let that deter you from offering advice - just try and keep it as concise and easy to digest as possible!:cool:
Marco.
Matthew 7:6
(My advice for what it's worth is leave it alone. Nothing wrong with the binding posts Tannoy put in. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Especially if you're not comfortable doing surgery on your speakers).
In this instance, I agree. Normally I'm all for making such modifications (as I've done similar to my Lockwoods and Celestion Ditton 15XRs) - *if* it's the right thing to do, and crucially is being done by someone who's 100% proficient!
However, that not being the case, you're liable just to make things worse, by spending money simply creating a poorer connection. Also, looking at the binding posts in question, they're one of the better designs from that era (as I quite like 'wrap-around' terminals, which can be easily tightened), and also easily accessed.
Ok, they don't facilitate the use of super-thick speaker cables, but often such IME aren't any better than good quality thinner stuff, plus it's remarkable how by tightly twisting/crimping, then tinning the ends with solder, you can squeeze pretty thick cable into what seems like flimsy binding posts!:)
Furthermore, bare-wire connections, if properly maintained (when necessary by trimming back the ends and exposing new wire when what's there becomes oxidised, in order to maintain the integrity of the connection), are arguably the best, and better than using plugs, simply because the latter act as an additional interface for the signal to negotiate, and if they're not that good, in terms of design and/or material quality, they'll end up being more of a bottleneck.
So.... Unless Horacio is 100% confident in his ability to dismantle and replace the original binding posts, and properly fit something that's *genuinely* better, I'd leave well alone!:cool:
Marco.
That is true, just look at my response to the request for help with the Thorens belt and pulley speed change problem.
I gave a thorough analysis of the problem from a designer's point of view, writing an analysis in clear and explicit detail with a correct solution, using very clear English, (I used to write technical reports for the Scientific Instrument Research Association), and it seems to have been ignored, but another ready and simple answer thanked for. Why do I bother?
I can understand your annoyance Dennis. I too have replied to technical queries asked by some Members here, but received no thanks for my efforts, or even an acknowledgement.
Like you, my replies were full, precise and detailed (again I used to write technical and scientific research reports as part of my work). We do it to try to help others, not to receive kudos or prestige: it's all part of the Ethos of AoS.
Lawrence001
22-08-2020, 15:49
In similar situations I've used these they work a treat as long as the banana plugs aren't pulled on by the cable.
Look at this on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293215812232
Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
spendorman
22-08-2020, 16:09
In similar situations I've used these they work a treat as long as the banana plugs aren't pulled on by the cable.
Look at this on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293215812232
Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
They look interesting, but I don't think that they will fit in the connectors on the Devons
Anthony et al, I think that we are at cross-purposes and you are wrong. I have not found an answer that says how to remove the spring loaded terminals from the plate in-situ. Removing the drivers was a no-no option from the beginning. The only person who removed them was Spendorman he does not remember how he did it. I could have gotten a drill or a pair of pliers and do it, but is was not the point.
Did you read my post, Horatio? What exactly in your opinion is wrong with the binding posts already on the speakers, and what do you intend on replacing them with?
Marco.
Hi Marco, I just want to replace the speakers posts because I want to use a lower gauge cable, not exotic or expensive, just 14 or 12 gauge wire, I have a box full of them. The Devons' posts accept 18 or higher gauge. It would be perfect for a very short run, for example with monoblocks sitting next to each speaker, but that is not my case.
Lawrence001
22-08-2020, 21:12
They look interesting, but I don't think that they will fit in the connectors on the DevonsIf the screw in the binding post is less than 5mm then you fit it like a spade, if it's higher then you should be able to use one of the prongs in the hole for the cable.
Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
There are no screws in the binding posts, they are spring-loaded, the whole is for 18ga or larger. I simply want to replace them, I have several superb WBT and Vampire posts at home.
walpurgis
22-08-2020, 21:31
You can't remove the terminal posts from outside the cabinets.
Lawrence001
22-08-2020, 21:31
Ok I would have thought if the springs are strong enough to hold a cable they could hold a spade but I've not actually seen them so I could be completely wrong.
Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
"+1, however, as helpful and as thorough as you wish your advice to be, you should also keep it as short and to the point as possible, and not too technical (unless you know that the person receiving the advice genuinely understands the technicalities), as the attention span of most people these days isn't what it once was!;)"
Much of my effort is to be precise and to explain in readily understandable terms a procedure, and to not go into technicalities with which many may not be familiar, that is, or at least used to be, what technical writers did, especially when writing instructions. To do anything requires an implicit ability to concentrate, and if that is beyond people then that will limit achievement. I do not think that anything I wrote was in any way verbose or even technical.
"Therefore, if they have to trawl through reams of text (no matter how well-written or presented), in order to glean the information they want, they're going to get bored. For example, I always switch off when I see graphs, as I rarely understand what exactly they're supposed to illustrate..."
I do not think that I have been verbose, please precis what I have written if you think it so. I think in fact I been concise, with no superfluity. I also switch off when I read endless reams of poorly written descriptions or accounts, particularly when they are inarticulately written, excessively long, and lacking in any substantive content. This also often occurs in telephone conversations with large corporations.
"Sorry, that's just how it is, especially as the vast majority of people will be accessing the site via a smartphone, and so why shorter, but arguably less erudite responses will often be acknowledged instead, simply because they take less time to read and are quicker to respond to!"
How much shorter could my response have been to precisely state my advice?
"'Tis the nature of the beast, unfortunately, but don't let that deter you from offering advice - just try and keep it as concise and easy to digest as possible!:cool:"
Marco.
Please illustrate my lack of concision.
Please illustrate my lack of concision.
Sorry, not you personally, but 'one'. I was making a general point for the consumption of everyone:)
Marco.
Hi Marco, I just want to replace the speakers posts because I want to use a lower gauge cable, not exotic or expensive, just 14 or 12 gauge wire, I have a box full of them. The Devons' posts accept 18 or higher gauge. It would be perfect for a very short run, for example with monoblocks sitting next to each speaker, but that is not my case.
Hi Horatio, sorry I don't understand. In what way don't the Devon's binding posts, in terms of their construction, not facilitate the use of a lower-gauge cable? It's a higher-gauge cable that would be the problem, surely, as the posts are quite small?:scratch:
Marco.
Hi Horatio, sorry I don't understand. In what way don't the Devon's binding posts, in terms of their construction, not facilitate the use of a lower-gauge cable? It's a higher-gauge cable that would be the problem, surely, as the posts are quite small?:scratch:
Marco.
The lower the gauge number the thicker the cable. So 16 AWG is thinner than 14 AWG and so on.
Ah I see what he means by "lower gauge" now... That's fine, but the point I'm making is if the job of replacing the binding posts isn't done right, to ensure an optimal connection, then it will negate any benefits of using thicker cable.
Also, as I've already said, you need to ensure that whatever binding posts are chosen to replace the originals are *genuinely* no-brainer better, not simply just 'prettier' to look at!;)
In that respect, I'd be using something constructed of solid-copper (or silver), if you really want to do the job right. This is what I used on both my Celestions and Lockwoods:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/binding_posts/cardas-ccbp-s-short-unplated-copper.html
The Cardas are superb and, if they can successfully be fitted to the Devons, will offer a significant sonic improvement, plus facilitate the use of whatever speaker cable you like!
Anything less than that though, such as some of the mass-produced Chinese, brass-made tat, I'd argue would offer little, if any sonic improvement over what's already there - and as I've said, let's also remember that thicker (lower gauge) cable isn't always necessarily better than something that's thinner.
There's MUCH more to the construction of a good speaker cable than simply girth.
Marco.
AJSki2fly
23-08-2020, 13:47
.....
There's MUCH more to the construction ....... than simply girth.
Marco.
as the actress said to the bishop:lol:
Ha - I just *knew* that someone would come along and knock that down, once I'd set it up!:D
Marco.
HarryCrumb
23-08-2020, 20:25
Hey Horacio,
This is mine, on it's way out of the smaller Eaton cabinet, which I believe is the same as the Devon. The only way to remove it is by taking the driver out the front, and then unscrewing it from inside. If you look at the second photo you can see the screw. The plastic back plate is also screwed in and sealed. One popped straight out, the other needed some gentle persuasion. You can see the little nubs on the back plate that stop the terminal from rotating. I cut grooves in to my new terminals so that they would fit over those nubs, rather than spoiling the back plate.
(the red terminal is only posing in that position for the photograph. It usually locates on the + side)
https://i.postimg.cc/909KN2Gm/IMG-20200612-140802.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/ZR2hcMgc/red-push-terminal.jpg
It's not a particularly big job but I can fully understand someone not wanting to do it. One of my drivers was 'stuck' and I very slightly chipped the fascia paint getting it out. You may also find that you need a new gasket when replacing the driver. My Eatons were in need of restoration so all that was fine, and I was in the mood for it.
You could always take them to some one who does this this sort of thing for a living.
WullieD20
24-08-2020, 09:00
^^ Excellent descriptive post. . . . .:clap:
Hi Horacio, there does not appear to be a way to remove those nasty spring loaded things without butchering them. I however do not think there is much to be gained by replacing them with the ubiquitous brass plated with nickel plated with gold units.
Were they mine I would force out the terminal plate and replace it with some sturdy phenolic resin or Bakelite. The edges could be bevelled and made to look very smart. I used 8mm thick which I finished with my router and then polished.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274090321945
The terminals Marco linked to are the minimum I would consider but if you are not prepared to remove the drivers then butchering is necessary otherwise forget it.
Possibly better than the pure copper terminals would be to bring the speaker wires outside the cabinet and crimp/solder on pure copper lugs like Furez, similar to Richard Vandersteen's speakers, although his connection is internal.
I have done exactly this on my amp and the cheapo binding posts act merely as a clamp. To be clear I am directly connecting the speaker wires to amp modules.
Why bother? Cos it sounds mo better! :D
anthonyTD
26-08-2020, 09:51
Hi Horacio,
No disrespect but;
There have been further posts explaining again how you remove the binding post plate, and that is; you have to remove the driver, you cannot remove the binding posts off the plate without being able to get at the rear of the posts, again as others have said, if you dont feel confident about doing this, then just leave them, and if the cable your going to use is a bit thin for the spring loaded binding post to grip, than just double over the part of the cable you want to go into the hole in the binding post, this should then make the cable thicker, so that the spring loaded binding post will grip the cable.
Hope this helps.
Anthony et al, I think that we are at cross-purposes and you are wrong. I have not found an answer that says how to remove the spring loaded terminals from the plate in-situ. Removing the drivers was a no-no option from the beginning. The only person who removed them was Spendorman he does not remember how he did it. I could have gotten a drill or a pair of pliers and do it, but is was not the point.
spendorman
26-08-2020, 09:59
If it's any help, in doing the job, I definitely removed the drive unit, but I didn't remove the terminal plates.
walpurgis
26-08-2020, 10:00
I don't understand what's so terrifying about removing the Tannoy drivers and doing this job properly. It's not a complex task and having owned about a dozen sets of Tannoys with these terminals, it's certainly one I've done without difficulty.
I think Horacio would be best advised to not attempt this if he feels that unsure about it.
If it's any help, in doing the job, I definitely removed the drive unit, but I didn't remove the terminal plates.
Perhaps this is the time (https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?50130-Removing-push-in-spring-clips-and-replacing-with-binding-posts-(Speakers)&p=842963#post842963) when you replaced the binding posts?
Problem fixed!!!
I have a nice woodworking shop in my garage and I built several speaker cabinets and kits mostly from Falcon Acoustics and Wilmslow Audio.
My Devons were specially built by Tannoy for Martin Hannett, I have the provenance document and I want to keep them in original condition.
Please take a look at my Gradients look-alike build from scratch piece by piece in my garage.
Cheers,
I don't understand what's so terrifying about removing the Tannoy drivers and doing this job properly. It's not a complex task and having owned about a dozen sets of Tannoys with these terminals, it's certainly one I've done without difficulty.
I think Horacio would be best advised to not attempt this if he feels that unsure about it.
People's attitude and confidence is often not very related to their ability, they can be intimidated for a whole range of reasons, and it is wrong to extrapolate from one's own perspective to theirs.
HarryCrumb
26-08-2020, 22:12
...that was a big circle. Glad we got there in the end :)
Nice looking speakers, though they don't look like Devons to me, certainly not from the front. And they're in very good condition for something owned by Mr Hannett. Good find!
spendorman
26-08-2020, 22:17
Looks like Quad ESL63's on top of subs
HarryCrumb
26-08-2020, 22:39
...probably a mix up at the post office.
ESL-63 Pro USA monitors with Electrostatic Solutions boards and rebuilt panels. Gradient SW-63 with four 12” Peerless drivers.
anthonyTD
27-08-2020, 07:23
So how has this fixed your original issue with the binding posts :scratch:
A...
Problem fixed!!!
I have a nice woodworking shop in my garage and I built several speaker cabinets and kits mostly from Falcon Acoustics and Wilmslow Audio.
My Devons were specially built by Tannoy for Martin Hannett, I have the provenance document and I want to keep them in original condition.
Please take a look at my Gradients look-alike build from scratch piece by piece in my garage.
Cheers,
Better not to ask questions on this forum.
Ciao
anthonyTD
27-08-2020, 13:31
:scratch::doh:
Better not to ask questions on this forum.
Ciao
Yes, care to explain that rather petulant (and unjustified) remark, Horatio?
Your original query was about binding posts on Tannoy Devon speakers, which are a smallish bookshelf design. Then you post a picture of much bigger speakers and claim that the 'problem is fixed'.
How does that make any sense? So it's justified that you were questioned on it!
Marco.
Filterlab
27-08-2020, 14:24
Better not to ask questions on this forum.
Ciao
Why's that? Have people not been helpful?
HarryCrumb
27-08-2020, 17:58
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?69973-Sugden-A-21a-or-A21SE&p=1207667#post1207667
...those pictures look like Devons, from Horacios other thread. I remember seeing those photos on eBay a few months ago when someone was selling a load of stuff that had belonged to Martin Hannett.. Maybe Horacio got his photo posting mixed up.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Monitor-HPD-12s-belonged-to-Martin-Hannett-Joy-Division-producer/362824562124?hash=item547a0775cc:g:agsAAOSw4tVd2VF y
Horacio, you seem to have found a happy solution, but if you have a woodwork room and experience building cabinets, I really don’t think that you will struggle with a minor tweak such as swapping speaker posts. Plus, if I had Martin Hannetts speakers I would be 100% taking a look inside to see what adjustments he’d made, or whether he’d stashed anything in there and forgotten about it... :)
Best of luck
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