Worst Music For Your System

[Opti-cal]

I've recently experienced a phenomenon following on slightly from the "Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else" thread.

As the bulk of my listening (although subject to change!) is based around a lot of old and new electronic music, mostly in vinyl format, I have been 'tuning' my system to best show off this genre.

I've been chopping and changing for a month or so with ancillaries including, interconnects, speaker jumper cables, tubes (in phono stage and pre-amp), cartridge loading plugs and indeed the TT itself.

Anyway, I'm happy with the result and my collection of electronic music has never sounded better. Before it was just decent but now its a whole new level. I then put on some more 'commercial' offerings of acoustic/rock/prog etc. It's on another level now and I was very surprised at the difference. Classical recordings have taken a real leap in dynamics too, its very captivating.

Logically I would surmise that a lot of my electronic records (especially the older ones) are not cut with 'fidelity' at the top of the priority list (although some most certainly are and can be spectacular). However, tweaking the system so it is able to 'deal with' and indeed excel in some cases with these less than great sounding records has resulted in the entire system being elevated across all genres, I guess it's been somewhat 'calibrated' in a way if that makes sense.

Something I would like to know is if anyone else has managed to make some music go from mediocre to very enjoyable by doing anything similar. Basically is there a particular genre/band/album/song giving your system problems and what did you do (if anything) in an attempt to rectify it, what were the results?

Obviously I haven't tested my theory particularly thoroughly but anything I throw at the system now sounds sublime, in summery if it can handle low fidelity/scratchy/pounding/break-beat electronica, everything else appears to be a walk in the park for the system so to speak.

I would also ponder that a lot of more 'commercially' available music is not really stretching the limits of many systems in the same way that say, an old Trance record might. Hence it sounding 'pretty good' on most systems, understandably not pushing people to extract even more from what might already be a very good sounding system, but.... could it be a lot better . . . . ???

[AJSki2fly]

I would say from my experience taking a spread of favourite tracks from different genres and tuning your system to get the best out of them is the way forward.

I have noticed that some records that didn’t sound that great previously have improved when re-played, I can’t think of a specific example at present. However I have noticed as well that some poor recordings sound even worse, I suspect that this is because the system is getting every detail, Warts and all, so much so the some records will be replaced with better copies.


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[Opti-cal]

I would say from my experience taking a spread of favourite tracks from different genres and tuning your system to get the best out of them is the way forward.

I have noticed that some records that didn’t sound that great previously have improved when re-played, I can’t think of a specific example at present. However I have noticed as well that some poor recordings sound even worse, I suspect that this is because the system is getting every detail, Warts and all, so much so the some records will be replaced with better copies.


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I certainly get that Adrian. With my Quads (which I've actually swapped for more conventional speakers at present) if its a bad recording/pressing it REALLY shows, so much so as to be un-listenable.

Normally when I'm setting a system up I do have my go-to 10 or so tracks to put it through its paces, maybe I need to reevaluate just how challenging these are to the system. Its just after tweaking the system to show off challenging electronic stuff, whatever I now play on it does sound better than before. To a more or lesser degree anyway.

I think the system has a good balance of detail retrieval coupled with a good 'rich' musical presentation to it. Perhaps with systems more tipped towards detail retrieval, you'd have to be a lot more careful 'tuning' them to suit a particular genre, as like you say it could just highlight the bad bits.

[AJSki2fly]

I certainly get that Adrian. With my Quads (which I've actually swapped for more conventional speakers at present) if its a bad recording/pressing it REALLY shows, so much so as to be un-listenable........

I think the system has a good balance of detail retrieval coupled with a good 'rich' musical presentation to it. Perhaps with systems more tipped towards detail retrieval, you'd have to be a lot more careful 'tuning' them to suit a particular genre, as like you say it could just highlight the bad bits.

I think the key is that as you go up the SQ scale then hifi components tend to be more revealing and introduce less coloration to what is being played. A good example in my system is the Wilson Benesch Vectors, very accurate and detailed, especially in the Mid and Top end, they are known for this, and some have described them as having a clinical tendency, I would disagree with this view. What I do find though is that if I put a poor recording through the system, be it vinyl or digital, then its bad qualities will be greatly exposed. Previously I used Tannoys, and had a pair of older JBL's, both sounded good but they were IMO more forgiving when it came to highlighting the warts, why this was I have not idea. What I do know is that the WB's give me a more musical and accurate rendition in my set up and room, to my ears anyway.

I have and do experience the same with a couple of cartridges, I have the top end Benz Micro LP-S, a highly respected and very good MC, considered to be very musical and good at extracting detail, also a Goldring 2500 MI(moving iron) cartridge. I know with absolute certainty that they are both sonically and in terms of musical reproduction very, very similar to the extent most would find it hard to differentiate between them, certainly in a blind listen. I even suspect some would prefer the Goldring. But what I can hear with the LP-S is more very subtle detail in the mid and top end and shall we say slightly more open feel in the sound stage. What this also means is that once again the LP-S is certainly less forgiving of a poor recordings/pressings. By way I would say that in terms of VFM the 2500 is worth its weight in Goldring(sorry about the pun).

So I think when putting a system together or tuning it to what you want, it really is down to what the individual wants to hear and enjoys. For example lots of vinyl audiophiles love to use SPU cartridges, I believe many say they give a smoother and warmer rendition, making it all more musical, I would probably agree with this for certain genres, and in fact if that's your bag then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. For me I want to try and get to hear the record as it was recorded and heard in the studio or live session, or as close as possible, probably not achievable in the real world but we can all dream. I used this extreme example because I think it applies to nearly all aspects of a system, pre-amp, amp, speakers, interconnects and speaker cables. Put one of these in a system that has a particular trait and you will emphasise that trait or balance out another or worse cause a clash. It has taken me over 4 years of gear swapping and listening to get to what I like within my budget, whether it sounds good to others or not does not really matter, it works for me and that's what is important. We may be moving house soon and I am quite concerned how it will all sound in the new lounge although after alterations it will be a similar size and layout to what we currently have so I am hoping it will still be good.

So my advice is if you are happy with how your system sounds stick with it, especially if it plays you favourite music well.

[Haselsh1]

For my electronic music I tailored my system to have gob fulls of slam and bass propulsive power. I also have a massive stereo sound stage and huge ambience. What I found was that with jazz such as Diana Krall and Tina May, in fact any female vocal and double bass based music, the sound is bloody stunning. Not intentional but good that it has happened.

[Pharos]

I've been pondering the relationship between the number of recordings that sound good, and how that changes with improvements in my system.

I put forward the idea that the statistical bell curve applies to recording quality. At the low end there are very few which are very bad, most in the middle are pretty good, and at the highest quality end there are few recordings.

With my last system configuration I had a few favourite test recordings which I regarded as exemplary, and all sounded very good. With my more recent configuration some of those recordings previously regarded as almost exemplary, now have faults revealed in them.

So, with what I consider to be a better system - more transparent to the recording, the acquisition of a better system has reduced the number of recordings giving pure pleasure, because I hear flaws.

[Barry]

So a "better system" in your case Dennis has resulted in a significant loss of musical enjoyment. Not good. :(

[Folsom]

The Beatles... because I don't like them :lol:

House music maybe? I don't have a subwoofer for uber low output.

[Firebottle]

(c)RAP.
Rectification is don't play it, result - bliss. :lol:

[Opti-cal]

I think the key is that as you go up the SQ scale then hifi components tend to be more revealing and introduce less coloration to what is being played. A good example in my system is the Wilson Benesch Vectors, very accurate and detailed, especially in the Mid and Top end, they are known for this, and some have described them as having a clinical tendency, I would disagree with this view. What I do find though is that if I put a poor recording through the system, be it vinyl or digital, then its bad qualities will be greatly exposed. Previously I used Tannoys, and had a pair of older JBL's, both sounded good but they were IMO more forgiving when it came to highlighting the warts, why this was I have not idea. What I do know is that the WB's give me a more musical and accurate rendition in my set up and room, to my ears anyway.

I have and do experience the same with a couple of cartridges, I have the top end Benz Micro LP-S, a highly respected and very good MC, considered to be very musical and good at extracting detail, also a Goldring 2500 MI(moving iron) cartridge. I know with absolute certainty that they are both sonically and in terms of musical reproduction very, very similar to the extent most would find it hard to differentiate between them, certainly in a blind listen. I even suspect some would prefer the Goldring. But what I can hear with the LP-S is more very subtle detail in the mid and top end and shall we say slightly more open feel in the sound stage. What this also means is that once again the LP-S is certainly less forgiving of a poor recordings/pressings. By way I would say that in terms of VFM the 2500 is worth its weight in Goldring(sorry about the pun).

So I think when putting a system together or tuning it to what you want, it really is down to what the individual wants to hear and enjoys. For example lots of vinyl audiophiles love to use SPU cartridges, I believe many say they give a smoother and warmer rendition, making it all more musical, I would probably agree with this for certain genres, and in fact if that's your bag then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. For me I want to try and get to hear the record as it was recorded and heard in the studio or live session, or as close as possible, probably not achievable in the real world but we can all dream. I used this extreme example because I think it applies to nearly all aspects of a system, pre-amp, amp, speakers, interconnects and speaker cables. Put one of these in a system that has a particular trait and you will emphasise that trait or balance out another or worse cause a clash. It has taken me over 4 years of gear swapping and listening to get to what I like within my budget, whether it sounds good to others or not does not really matter, it works for me and that's what is important. We may be moving house soon and I am quite concerned how it will all sound in the new lounge although after alterations it will be a similar size and layout to what we currently have so I am hoping it will still be good.

So my advice is if you are happy with how your system sounds stick with it, especially if it plays you favourite music well.

Thanks for the detailed response there Adrian.

I think the absolute virtues (and indeed flaws) of some components only reveal themselves completely after prolonged listening. You have to get somewhat 'attuned' to things. I'm not talking about say a bookshelf speaker vs an Altec behemoth horn, but more your comparison of the two cartridges you mention there. They both might sound very good in their own right but the superior cartridge wins out eventually and not perhaps for any reason you can put your finger on or reference. 'It just does'. Musicality, sparkle, whatever.

I wonder how many choose equipment based on their listening preferences, again, this is where people can develop a real 'penchant' for valves, horn speakers, huge SS amps, SET's etc.

A while ago I was enamored with 'cheap' little SET's and some horn speakers but tailored my listening to suit as it just couldn't handle anything other than 'soft' rock and vocal/acoustic/jazz. As is tried and tested with this kind of setup.

I think with electronic music its difficult to know exactly how everything 'should' sound as its unlikely that you will be able to create the environment the producer was mixing/mastering it in. With most other music striving for the exact recording accuracy of the setting, instruments and musicians, is indeed what I think most people are after. The problem (or maybe the freedom) with electronic music is that a lot of it is just sampled and created inside a program or recorded with a combination of analogue/digital equipment but not into microphones as such, hence no 'correct' (accurate) circumstance or setting is on the record.
If we were just trying to create what the producer/master engineer was hearing, I'd be sitting here with a pair of active monitors and a ton of room treatment on a swivel chair!
Now I know for a fact some producers to cut their mixes with the 'club' in mind (there is a genre known as 'big room house' for example). Now they may not even get to try the record in such an environment before it is actually released and it is just down to a combination of mastering skill and pot luck (almost) if it sounds good on a particular club system or not.
In my experience a lot of records are actually cut with less bass and low end to account for the massive subs and bass bins they are likely to be heard through in these environments and can sound limp and lifeless on a lot of systems. It's one of the reasons I run dual subs as well as speakers that can 'get down there'.
Converse to that there are also a lot of records cut with a huge emphasis on the bass and low end as they are more intended for radio play and are most likely to be heard 'pumping' out of a 2" 1.5w speaker.

I know the aforementioned practice (loudness wars etc) is present in most music (tailoring to suit the most likely demographic) but the variation seems wider in electronic music, to me.

The 'within budget' point is a very valid one. Not just in terms of saving money and not overspending but if you cannot backup the initial expenditure with the repair/maintenance costs of owning a vinyl/valve based setup, in my experience its just not as enjoyable. I did have a Benz Micro Ace low output MC cart. It was bloody magnificent but I would fret about putting hours on it and it was always in the back of my mind during long listening sessions . Stupid I know, but its my nature. (Don't take the protective plastic off displays/vinyl has to be spotless/stars have to be aligned kind of guy I'm afraid) . . . . I think they call it OCT . . .

Anyway, I'm a lot happier playing records on something I know I can afford to replace at any time (at the moment) rather than having to scrimp for a few weeks in order to do the same. I guess its finding the balance of your outlay vs enjoyment. I think this factor is quite specific to vinyl setups and to a lesser extent valve equipment. SS and digital can pretty much be left alone bar the odd bit of maintenance. Electrostats . . . . well maybe I'm just unlucky but it took a year and three 'back to workshop' trips to get them right and now I'm not even using them in my main system!!

I'm quite intrigued regarding your points on the Goldring 2500. It's a lot closer to my budget than most of the Benz stuff that's for sure. Can't argue with a good bang for buck cart, you just can't!

[Opti-cal]

For my electronic music I tailored my system to have gob fulls of slam and bass propulsive power. I also have a massive stereo sound stage and huge ambience. What I found was that with jazz such as Diana Krall and Tina May, in fact any female vocal and double bass based music, the sound is bloody stunning. Not intentional but good that it has happened.

Hi Shaun,

sounds like we have quite similar system preferences. My mid-range is very sweet too and there is sparkle coming from my 'extra' top mounted full range speakers but the swell of the low end and the 'thump' really is the signature of my current system overall. The dual subs have a fair amount to do with this.

Haha, I'll stick on some Krall when showing the systems capabilities, but just as a reference for mastering/production quality and she's usually off again within a couple of songs. Can't deny the quality of the recordings but the ruddy 'woolyness' of it grinds my gears fairly quickly and I have to offset it with some acid techno, immediately.

[Mikeandvan]

Surprised you use an LP12 if you listen to electronic dance music a lot, I found a 1210 was better for this, dance music is really quite simple sound wise, I don't think there is a great deal of detail to be rinsed from it, with exception of course, and I found a direct drive suited its propulsive nature.

[Opti-cal]

Surprised you use an LP12 if you listen to electronic dance music a lot, I found a 1210 was better for this, dance music is really quite simple sound wise, I don't think there is a great deal of detail to be rinsed from it, with exception of course, and I found a direct drive suited its propulsive nature.

That's where my Audio Technica LP5 comes in Mike, direct drive propulsion all the way! I did have 1210's but had to sell them to fund other projects. For playback the LP5 is practically the same sound signature as my mk2's and the tonearms are very similar too. Oh how I miss them though . . . .

To be fair the LP12 does keep up quite well but its certainly not the horse for that particular course. Put on some Jazz or Classical though and it makes the LP5 sound like a gramophone . . .

Oh and here they are (were) . . . .

https://i.ibb.co/wzg22xm/IMG-20141015-WA0001.jpg (https://ibb.co/bKmGG89)

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Chris

Your follow up is interesting and is pretty much in alignment with my stars[emoji23].

I actually do have a few 12” vinyls which sort of fit into the style of music you listen to ie. Ege Bam Yasi, Finitribe, Nobody, T:Me 0792 - Various which I picked up from a pile of presumably a DJ collection in a Hospiscare. They all have imo been mixed very well, they do have some serious bass, one reason I enjoy listening to them. The system as a whole reproduces them well and enjoyably, it may not be gut wrenching feel it in the stomach like you possibly would in a club, but then I don’t have 1000w amps and stack of 15” drivers with massive bass bins, I think the neighbours in close would complain if I did. [emoji3]

I take your point about electronically mixed and computer generated music, you really are at the mercy of how the producer mixed it and what/where he was listening to it when he did so. I believe some even go to large clubs/venues to do a mix so they know it will hopefully sound similar in a similar venue in the future, so in this instance I doubt any of us will get close to what was intended with our home systems.

I think this is also very true of live music, for example let’s take a classic Deep Purple - Made in Japan, widely recognises as one of the better live rock albums of all time. It is in fact a favourite of mine and I was listening only yesterday. There are several issues with replay, to get the scale and sense of auditorium acoustics you have to play it pretty loud imo, pushing over 90dB, and that’s probably not loud enough, although the neighbours certainly won’t like it. Then there is the dynamics of the band, the feeling of the mic’d up kick drum pounding out over the stack sound system, the bass guitar pumping out those famous rhythms, I think you get it what I am saying. So no matter how good I think it sounds, it really is not going to replicate the actual live performance, no matter how good the transcription of it or the quality of the system it is played on. IMO when I listen to something like this I am getting a representation of what was actually recorded, and the feeling and ambience of what I hear is what I enjoy, as well as the musical content. Similarly I think reproducing the scale and grandeur of a full symphony orchestra in full flow is a major challenge to achieve, just listen to Prelude (Sonnenaufgang) Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30, there is huge scale and dynamics with massive low bass at the end form the organ, often completely lost when replayed on many systems, also recording/mixing quality varies greatly affecting replay.

So what I am trying to say is that bit is not just your particular taste in genre that is affected. In my personal view I have found that if you pick pieces of music to tune your system that have clear well recorded and easily identifiable REAL instruments then you will get the best from you system.

I use some Jazz (piano, trumpet, drums, upright double bass) Miles Davis - So What(Kind do Blue), Bach Organ music, Eva Cassidy -Fields of Gold and other tracks(I include her voice as an instrument), a good rendition of Vivaldi Four Seasons, a good recording of Beethoven’s 5th symphony. If I am happy with these then I listen to some favourite rock/pop music, 10cc - Worst Band in the World, Supertramp- School, Sinéad O,Conner - Feel So Different, Paul Simon - The Boy In The Bubble, Peter Gabriel - The Rhythm Of The Heat, Ravi Shankar- Tala Rasa Ranga(Portrait of Genius), St Germain - Rose Rouge. I know all these very well, what I mean by that is I can hear the music in my head without it being played if that makes sense, so when I listen to them on my system I known, or think I know, what it should sound like,mat least for me.

Having set up my system and listened to system changes using the above I have “tuned” it to my liking, as a result I have found that it seems to work well across all genres, although I recognise that very low bass below 35-40hz is not going to happen unless I add a good sub.

You might want to have a listen to some of the tracks above if you are not familiar with them, you may find them interesting, albeit some a bit old school.

Cheers Adrian

[Haselsh1]

Hello Chris. The midband of my current sound system is quite possibly the most realistic I have ever had. OK so that can only be checked using 'real' music with 'real' instruments that are recorded via microphones but it is a good reference point. For electronic music there is no such point of reference or fidelity as let's face it, a lot of stuff these days is 'virtual' or VST and would be inaudible without a PA system or monitor system. This is where the term Hi-Fidelity falls apart because without the reference, what would it be faithful to..?

My current system bass is purely tailored towards electronic music along the lines of Leftfield, Shpongle, Hallucinogen, Underworld, The Peaking Goddess Collective and many more. You get the picture..? This bass has only been possible by combining my KEF R5's with my Usher R1.5's output. That bloody amplifier has such and amazing low end performance. The mid is as good as I would want it and provided the amp is fully warmed up, the treble is just silky smooth.

The fact that my system sounds so good with female vocal and string bass is a pure coincidence.

[Opti-cal]

Hi Chris

Your follow up is interesting and is pretty much in alignment with my stars[emoji23].

I actually do have a few 12” vinyls which sort of fit into the style of music you listen to ie. Ege Bam Yasi, Finitribe, Nobody, T:Me 0792 - Various which I picked up from a pile of presumably a DJ collection in a Hospiscare. They all have imo been mixed very well, they do have some serious bass, one reason I enjoy listening to them. The system as a whole reproduces them well and enjoyably, it may not be gut wrenching feel it in the stomach like you possibly would in a club, but then I don’t have 1000w amps and stack of 15” drivers with massive bass bins, I think the neighbours in close would complain if I did. [emoji3]

I take your point about electronically mixed and computer generated music, you really are at the mercy of how the producer mixed it and what/where he was listening to it when he did so. I believe some even go to large clubs/venues to do a mix so they know it will hopefully sound similar in a similar venue in the future, so in this instance I doubt any of us will get close to what was intended with our home systems.

I think this is also very true of live music, for example let’s take a classic Deep Purple - Made in Japan, widely recognises as one of the better live rock albums of all time. It is in fact a favourite of mine and I was listening only yesterday. There are several issues with replay, to get the scale and sense of auditorium acoustics you have to play it pretty loud imo, pushing over 90dB, and that’s probably not loud enough, although the neighbours certainly won’t like it. Then there is the dynamics of the band, the feeling of the mic’d up kick drum pounding out over the stack sound system, the bass guitar pumping out those famous rhythms, I think you get it what I am saying. So no matter how good I think it sounds, it really is not going to replicate the actual live performance, no matter how good the transcription of it or the quality of the system it is played on. IMO when I listen to something like this I am getting a representation of what was actually recorded, and the feeling and ambience of what I hear is what I enjoy, as well as the musical content. Similarly I think reproducing the scale and grandeur of a full symphony orchestra in full flow is a major challenge to achieve, just listen to Prelude (Sonnenaufgang) Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30, there is huge scale and dynamics with massive low bass at the end form the organ, often completely lost when replayed on many systems, also recording/mixing quality varies greatly affecting replay.

So what I am trying to say is that bit is not just your particular taste in genre that is affected. In my personal view I have found that if you pick pieces of music to tune your system that have clear well recorded and easily identifiable REAL instruments then you will get the best from you system.

I use some Jazz (piano, trumpet, drums, upright double bass) Miles Davis - So What(Kind do Blue), Bach Organ music, Eva Cassidy -Fields of Gold and other tracks(I include her voice as an instrument), a good rendition of Vivaldi Four Seasons, a good recording of Beethoven’s 5th symphony. If I am happy with these then I listen to some favourite rock/pop music, 10cc - Worst Band in the World, Supertramp- School, Sinéad O,Conner - Feel So Different, Paul Simon - The Boy In The Bubble, Peter Gabriel - The Rhythm Of The Heat, Ravi Shankar- Tala Rasa Ranga(Portrait of Genius), St Germain - Rose Rouge. I know all these very well, what I mean by that is I can hear the music in my head without it being played if that makes sense, so when I listen to them on my system I known, or think I know, what it should sound like,mat least for me.

Having set up my system and listened to system changes using the above I have “tuned” it to my liking, as a result I have found that it seems to work well across all genres, although I recognise that very low bass below 35-40hz is not going to happen unless I add a good sub.

You might want to have a listen to some of the tracks above if you are not familiar with them, you may find them interesting, albeit some a bit old school.

Cheers Adrian

Thanks Adrian,

I'm familiar with most of those tracks (I have parents ;)) some of which are ingrained on my subconscious from before I got to an age to even propose a change of tape/record on the family stereo or in the car!

A great mix there and Beethoven's 5th is a personal favourite of mine and my dads along with Four Seasons and Kind Of Blue. My dad is a big fan of Organ music too and regularly comes for a listen on my system as it really is only about -6db at 20Hz. I've told him the only way he's going to get that result is with a proper sub but as his system is in their living room (and quite a looker his system is I must say) aesthetically it simply is a no go. I'm working on him though . . . .

I must say I'm really happy with the overall 'balance' of the system as a whole, although compared to some I suspect it slightly tips the scales more towards low end grunt and 'rich' presentation over twinkly super frequencies . . . but I don't feel its missing much.

I guess you could say the 'spine' of the system is solid and neutral enough to now be only concerned with little tweaks, tubes, IC's etc. The source/amp/speakers are pretty much sorted and going nowhere. It's the first time I haven't swapped something out or felt the need to try something else, its been that way for a couple of months now, normally I'm itching or pondering the next move within a couple of weeks.

I remember you referenced a potential house move being on the cards. Unfortunately I'm faced with a similar dilemma in as much as the company that 'built' my new house neglected to actually put any insulation in the loft (where my system is currently situated). In a few weeks they are coming in to rip the top floor apart and rectify their absolutely unforgivable, disgrace of an oversight. (Words cannot even begin to explain how angry I am with them but that's a discussion for my solicitor and another time, anyway).

I too am worried that it won't go back in the same as it came out, as there will be some structural changes to the walls and acoustic signature of the room. However I've been through a few system relocation's now and although the journey can be long and tedious, I have managed to get there every time. Perseverance, some knowledge and some good luck are required.

Cheers Adrian,

Chris

[Opti-cal]

Hello Chris. The midband of my current sound system is quite possibly the most realistic I have ever had. OK so that can only be checked using 'real' music with 'real' instruments that are recorded via microphones but it is a good reference point. For electronic music there is no such point of reference or fidelity as let's face it, a lot of stuff these days is 'virtual' or VST and would be inaudible without a PA system or monitor system. This is where the term Hi-Fidelity falls apart because without the reference, what would it be faithful to..?

My current system bass is purely tailored towards electronic music along the lines of Leftfield, Shpongle, Hallucinogen, Underworld, The Peaking Goddess Collective and many more. You get the picture..? This bass has only been possible by combining my KEF R5's with my Usher R1.5's output. That bloody amplifier has such and amazing low end performance. The mid is as good as I would want it and provided the amp is fully warmed up, the treble is just silky smooth.

The fact that my system sounds so good with female vocal and string bass is a pure coincidence.

Hi Shaun,

yes some good selections there. Definitely on the better produced and more 'musical' side of electronic music. Some Shpongle stuff can really be regarded as modern day works of art (along with the mind bending videos!).

I'm also a big fan of soundtracks which tend to have a lot of low end information contained within. The first time I played the original Blade Runner soundtrack with a proper subwoofer (or 2!) in the room revealed exactly how much energy and detail was missing from almost any setup I had heard before. Only with the vinyl version though interestingly, I have the digital version in hi-rez 24/96 and the sound is missing some organic excitement from it, no question. That's not the DAC either as I have heard my DAC do some incredible things, its just I believe that particular recording was made for replay on a fully analogue vinyl rig.

Having said that the new Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack does have the same organic impact as the original one does on vinyl. I'm not even exaggerating when I say the pictures shake on the walls. Incredible ambiance to be found down that low, inaudible frequencies enable you to feel the soundscape. I don't believe a lot of people even know this is possible with a 'home' system, but it is as it sounds like you know too!

I tend to listen to a lot of stuff from The Orb, Martin Nonstatic, Biosphere, AIR, Boards of Canada, AES Dana, Floating Points, etc but if you really want to hear what is possible with production check out Skee Mask - Compro (24-bit) the thing blows my mind every, single, time.

That and an album from Connect.Ohm - 9980 . . . . incredible. Scann-Tec - unyt also deserves a special mention.

Also a big fan of nu-wave synth music (with an 80's vibe) so music from The Midnight, Morgan Willis (Miami Calling is superb), FM84 and a few others.

For more 'musical' electronic stuff I can thoroughly recommend Tycho, Albrecht La'Brooy, Mogwai (as some electronic/rock crossover), Bonobo.

[Haselsh1]

Yes Chris loving Bonobo and also Kiasmos along with Trentemoller, Orbital, Infected Mushroom, Futureshock and Younger Brother. I also like a bit of commercial dance like Lasgo and Ian Van Dahl however the other stuff is better with a slightly altered state of mind. The stereo imaging is always impressive when you feel more relaxed and that low frequency stuff that just appears around the floor is just too good. Great sounds, great music, great sounds systems. I'll drink to that.

:drinking:

[Haselsh1]

Oh yeah I forgot, Brian Eno's ambient stuff as well. Even the cat sits and listens.

:piano:

[Pharos]

So a "better system" in your case Dennis has resulted in a significant loss of musical enjoyment. Not good. :(

No, because of a philosophical change in my stance, a paradigm shift in thinking and understanding, of what is going on when we listen to music.

I described a few months ago how art reflects our inner concerns, feelings, sensibilities, and sensitivities, and most of what we attribute to the art is in fact a conflation of our inner emotions and concerns and the art which may allude to those, however fleetingly or scantly. We project onto the art to varying degrees.

A golfer seeing a white 1 1/4" piece of paper in the distance, after a swing, may well think that it is his ball, but as he approaches, his objective perception allows him to see what it really is.

With a sound system as it becomes more faithful to the recording, this allows it to be seen forensically, all the errors and techniques become more evident. A little like examining a beautiful table closely, to find one can see traces of chisel marks on its surface, or other slight flaws.

In about '72, I had a Parker ball point which had a window in its side to show as the refill revolved, conversion tables from British to SI units. I stuck a tape spool label on the refill and wrote; "Get High", "On Some", "Truth", "Man", each phrase being revealed with one click of the plunger.

This caused much consternation in the team, ('Shift A') and later ridicule. I remember at that time the track which included the phrase; "They smile in your face . . . . . The Backstabbers", for which I have an empathy, and many associates at that time stated I would agree with.

So truth has become my pursuit at the expense of comfort zones, these only serving to dissociate one from reality, and which in particular areas often form a basis for group bonding, and resultant dislike of realists.

But the ability of art to awaken us to perhaps repressed or subconscious but unrecognised feelings can be profound, and very worthwhile, and as we grow so the art has to become more sophisticated.

[Opti-cal]

Oh yeah I forgot, Brian Eno's ambient stuff as well. Even the cat sits and listens.

:piano:

Brian Eno & Jah Wobble - Spinner is another personal favorite. There is a random off key, out of time, electronic organ key strike that has no right to appear in the mix where it does, 'wakes me up' every time.

Cat's take note!

Quality stuff there Shaun.

[Opti-cal]

Yes Chris loving Bonobo and also Kiasmos along with Trentemoller, Orbital, Infected Mushroom, Futureshock and Younger Brother. I also like a bit of commercial dance like Lasgo and Ian Van Dahl however the other stuff is better with a slightly altered state of mind. The stereo imaging is always impressive when you feel more relaxed and that low frequency stuff that just appears around the floor is just too good. Great sounds, great music, great sounds systems. I'll drink to that.

:drinking:

Saw Kiasmos at the Montreux Jazz festival a few years ago. They were incredibly melodically, repetitively, subtly beautiful. I think they just played "looped" for about 3 hours but at the time it was exactly what I wanted to hear, over and over again. A real earcasm and a prolonged one at that.

Ólafur Arnalds is incredibly talented and does some really good stuff with Nils Frahm (another favorite). They just 'jammed' for a couple of hours and recorded it, the results are mesmeric.

"Daughter" also played a couple of hours before and they were also hauntingly beautiful.