R2R - Newbie recommendations

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'd like to get into R2R. I must admit to wanting to try one for quite some time now. Can anyone recommend a decent newbie machine? The Revox a77 seems to be getting a lot of love on the forum.

[Audio Al]

This one should di you OK
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Studer-A-820-1-4-Reel-To-Reel-Tape-Recorder/193556257483?hash=item2d10da1acb:g:ldcAAOSw3tZfA0B P

[Wakefield Turntables]

Al,

I have big pockets but that's taking the piss! :stalks:

[Audio Al]

apparently its good value :)

[Cas]

Just starting out I would go for a Revox A77, easy to use and sound great.

Do not Know here you are in the world but I got my Revox A77 from Vintagetech, always worth contacting to see what they have for sale.
Nice guy to do business with as well if it is still in the same ownership.

https://www.vintagetech.co.uk/

[topoxforddoc]

Andrew,
Before launching into this, It would be helpful to know what you want to get out of R2R. Is it:
a) using a R2R to record from other sources eg LP, CD, broadcast etc (I can't understand why someone might do this, but some do) - doesn't matter what format you have 2 track or 4 track (other than 2 track has higher SQ)
b) playing pre-recorded commercial tapes, which are mostly 4 track (ie like a cassette - 2 channels one way and 2 channels on reverse direction) - there a few 7.5 IPS 2 track commercial release, but these are much rarer
c) wanting to play 15 IPS "master" tapes, in which case you will need a semi pro/ studio 2 track machine
d) what's your budget - not only for the machine, but also music/tape?
Charlie

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just starting out I would go for a Revox A77, easy to use and sound great.

Do not Know here you are in the world but I got my Revox A77 from Vintagetech, always worth contacting to see what they have for sale.
Nice guy to do business with as well if it is still in the same ownership.

https://www.vintagetech.co.uk/

That's great thanks.




Andrew,
Before launching into this, It would be helpful to know what you want to get out of R2R. Is it:
a) using a R2R to record from other sources eg LP, CD, broadcast etc (I can't understand why someone might do this, but some do) - doesn't matter what format you have 2 track or 4 track (other than 2 track has higher SQ)
b) playing pre-recorded commercial tapes, which are mostly 4 track (ie like a cassette - 2 channels one way and 2 channels on reverse direction) - there a few 7.5 IPS 2 track commercial release, but these are much rarer
c) wanting to play 15 IPS "master" tapes, in which case you will need a semi pro/ studio 2 track machine
d) what's your budget - not only for the machine, but also music/tape?
Charlie

Charlie, in answer to your questions.

b). Yep. I fancy trying some of the new stuff released.
c). Yep, I'd love to try these as well.
d). Probably into the thousands if the right deck crops up and I get into the hobby properly.

[337alant]

A Revox B77mk2 HS or PR99 or an Otari MX55 would be my recommendation
The Tascam BR20 would also be perfect if you can find one

Alan

[Edward]

AnDreW

If you are interested in Revox do contact Paul Baldwin at reelaudio. He may know of a goodun, and anyway is the goto man for servicing and repairing Revox stuff.

[topoxforddoc]

Andrew,

If I was buying another studio machine (15IPS 2 track) now, I would probably get a Telefunken M15/M20/M21 from Hilpert in Germany - they were the German equivalent of the Studer A80 series.. Hilpert were the German service agents for Telefunken; they have stocks of spares and still service them. Telefunken ruled the roost in Germany, whereas Studer was predominant elsewhere. If you buy a machine from Hilpert, it is fully serviced. The prices below are for refurbished, serviced machines, which would be ready to run straight away. Prices start at about Euro 2300 for a stereo 15 IPS 2 track 1/4 inch machine.
http://www.hilpert-audio.de/audio/geraete/PricelM20.PDF
http://www.hilpert-audio.de/audio/geraete/PricelM15a.PDF
No meters on these machines, but that's not a major issue - just buy a set off PPM meters.

Charlie

[Wakefield Turntables]

Gents, thanks one and all. I think it's now high time I had a good sit down and learn some of the basics. Are there any particular tape formats which are frown upon? It seems the higher the IPS the more expensive the machine. Finally, what's the difference between a two track and a four track machine?

[337alant]

Andrew
Generally !, there is a lot more detail but but this will give you the general idea
You want New 1/4" Tape, dont buy any second hand or NOS from ebay as most of it has sticky shed and costs just as much a new reel from the likes of Thomann
The only old tape that I have that is OK is the Maxell XL1 & UD
There is still plenty of new tape available, I did a thread here http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=59278&highlight=tape
I buy Pancakes which is a reel of tape without the alloy reel then I load it onto old alloy reels which I believe are better quality then the new ones available with the tape.
The RTM LPR-90 is one of my favourite tapes and is £35 for a 1100m 10.5" pancake
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rtm_lpr_90_1_4_1100m_nab_pancake.htm
R2R machines have a Record and playback Equalisation curve which is either NAB or IEC ( a bit like Vinyl RIAA) it doesent matter which one you use as long as you are recording and playing back in the same EQ
NAB is the American format and IEC is the European format
Some machines such as Studer, Tascam and Otari have switchable EQ
Like cassette decks you will always get the best out of your machine if its properly calibrated for the tape type you use

Most modern pre recorded tapes available now tend to use IEC standard

Tape speeds generally used is 3.75"IPS, 7.5"IPS, 15"IPS & 30"IPS
The lower the tape speed the longer you get out of the tape but the quality is not so good
3.75ips - is OK quality, generally used for speach but some people still use it for Audio and lots of old pre recorded tape at this speed generally 4 track
7.5ips - Good quality and adequate for many people, on good machines can sound superb and has a fulsome bass
15ips - Excellent quality and dynamic range with slightly leaner but tauter bass
30ips - Excellent quality and dynamic range mainly used in recording studios and not many machines support this speed

Most machines will have a choice of 2 speeds generally 3.75/7.5ips or 7.5/15ips some have all 4 speeds like my Studer A810 and the Technics RS1500 has 3 speeds 3.75,7.5,15 this machine also has 2 sets of tape heads and can record and playback in 2 track and can playback only in 4 track so a very versatile machine.

2 Track machines have only 2 tracks in the same direction so have a wider track width and slightly better dynamic range than a 4 track machine but have only half the play time of a 4 track machine

There are generally 2 types of 4 track machines
1 - Tape head has 4 tracks and can record individually on each track all in one direction, these are generally used by musicians for composing a sond with different instruments on each track then you get a complete song playing back all tracks together and example of this is the Teac 3440. Studio machines can have upto 24 tracks

2- A domestic 4 track machine works like a cassette deck where you can record and playback on tracks 1&3 or 2&4 some have auto reverse and some you have to thttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVAmf95x5xI0nyOEcIHRrw/videos?view_as=subscriberurn both the tape reels over
The advantage of a 4 track machine is being able to get a lot of play time out of on tape

Here is a link to some of my machines
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVAmf95x5xI0nyOEcIHRrw/videos?view_as=subscriber
Alan

[bob4333]

Good stuff, and another vote for RTM LPR-90. Empty aluminium reels can be bought here amongst other places. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-10-10-5-AMPEX-406-NAB-HUB-METAL-REEL-TO-REEL-10-5-X-1-4-T0P-DRAW-CONDITION/273163884160?hash=item3f99d61680:g:MpoAAOSwvSpakSi p

About 15 quid and they came with used, but pretty clean storage boxes.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Alan many many thanks for your very detailed reply I've been studying the various forums to try and gain a little more knowledge

[Avinunca1]

Good stuff, and another vote for RTM LPR-90. Empty aluminium reels can be bought here amongst other places. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-10-10-5-AMPEX-406-NAB-HUB-METAL-REEL-TO-REEL-10-5-X-1-4-T0P-DRAW-CONDITION/273163884160?hash=item3f99d61680:g:MpoAAOSwvSpakSi p

About 15 quid and they came with used, but pretty clean storage boxes.

Nice solid reels from this seller