View Full Version : Raspberry Pi Digi Hats
Bourneendboy
04-08-2020, 09:11
I'm currently using an Allo Boss V1.2 with a Raspberry Pi but am considering an NJC Audio DAC to compliment my NJC headphone amp.
I'm considering using an optical connection and wonder which is currently the best Digi hat to use, can anyone advise please.
Also, is there likely to be any SQ difference between a Pi with a Digi hat and a Chromecast Audio?
Cheers,
Bill
I'm currently using an Allo Boss V1.2 with a Raspberry Pi but am considering an NJC Audio DAC to compliment my NJC headphone amp.
I'm considering using an optical connection and wonder which is currently the best Digi hat to use, can anyone advise please.
Also, is there likely to be any SQ difference between a Pi with a Digi hat and a Chromecast Audio?
Cheers,
BillI run a pi/boss system and it beats a Chromecast setup hands down, even with a linear PSU on both the pi/boss was easily better.
Awaiting arrival of a Pecan Pi DAC that is reported to be better than the Boss DAC. Don't know anything about the NJC.
I should also say that I tried the CCA into a Caiman SEG and using the CCA own built in DAC and I still preferred the Pi/Boss [emoji6]
Bourneendboy
04-08-2020, 16:29
I don't know why I'm faffing over this, the Boss sounds so good!
I've got to move on and stop thinking about changing things for no reason other than this ridiculous obsession:rolleyes:
I don't know why I'm faffing over this, the Boss sounds so good!
I've got to move on and stop thinking about changing things for no reason other than this ridiculous obsession:rolleyes:Jeez you sound like me [emoji23]
I dithered for months about buying the Pecan DAC, it'll be with me next couple of days so we'll see if I bought right.
Bourneendboy
04-08-2020, 16:53
I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it:)
The problem with NJC is that you can't try before you buy or return if not suitable. I know there is the distance selling regulation, but I don't want to have to make use of that with such a small company.
This makes it a leap of faith and at £450 it makes it very difficult.
I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it:)
The problem with NJC is that you can't try before you buy or return if not suitable. I know there is the distance selling regulation, but I don't want to have to make use of that with such a small company.
This makes it a leap of faith and at £450 it makes it very difficult.Yeah not easy on the return to a small company, however I suppose if you're paying postage both ways then they've lost nothing except a sale, have you asked if they have a demo unit?
Bourneendboy
04-08-2020, 19:37
Yes, no demo unit unfortunately.
I really don't know why they wouldn't have one of each of their items for a home loan, I'm sure it would help them sell more.
Not wanting to add to your dilemma I will only add that I have used HiFi Berry Digi , Digi + and Digi Pro hats along with a JustBoom Digi and found no real differences in sound quality with any of them .
I don't know why I'm faffing over this, the Boss sounds so good!
I've got to move on and stop thinking about changing things for no reason other than this ridiculous obsession:rolleyes:
I know that feeling!
I improved my vinyl system so much that I stopped enjoying my pi based digital.
However, I’ve ended up with the Allo USBRIDGE (pi on steroids) feeding an Orchard Pecan pi.
It’s a massive step up from the pi /boss (mine now relegated to the 2nd system).
Still doesn’t compete with my vinyl system though.
AJSki2fly
05-08-2020, 08:02
Not wanting to add to your dilemma I will only add that I have used HiFi Berry Digi , Digi + and Digi Pro hats along with a JustBoom Digi and found no real differences in sound quality with any of them .
I use RPI2 with HiFiBerry Digi which I purchased from a fellow AoSer over a year ago and plug it into a Caimen SEG DAC and to be honest I have not looked back. Several times I have considered upgrading either the HAT or selling the lot and going to a single box, each time I have backed out because I am not sure I would get or hear much difference. Plus with the single box I would be likely to loose flexibility unless I spent quite a lot.
I use RPI2 with HiFiBerry Digi which I purchased from a fellow AoSer over a year ago and plug it into a Caimen SEG DAC and to be honest I have not looked back. Several times I have considered upgrading either the HAT or selling the lot and going to a single box, each time I have backed out because I am not sure I would get or hear much difference. Plus with the single box I would be likely to loose flexibility unless I spent quite a lot.Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm after some advice on using my Pi3 into a Bushmaster mk1. I'm currently using a coax out direct from my PC motherboard into the Bushmaster. Im finding it hard to find relevant info on whether replacing this with a dedicated RPI with digital out would improve SQ?
I've got a RPI3 laying around so would just need to get the digital out sorted.
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the digione coax board is an excellent hat. not cheap but its good value. fits onto an rpi3
I know this is a pretty open ended question but: Would an RPI be a SQ improvement over my current PC setup? There seems to be so many things to consider in this regard. PC hardware, software, Windows resampling etc etc.
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Sherwood
06-08-2020, 08:41
I know this is a pretty open ended question but: Would an RPI be a SQ improvement over my current PC setup? There seems to be so many things to consider in this regard. PC hardware, software, Windows resampling etc etc.
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i use an Allo Digione too. No question that it is far superior to a typical PC setup.
What differences are there between the Digione and say a Hifiberry Digi+ pro in terms of SQ?
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First and foremost using any Pi with any Digi hat will be at least as good , in my opinion better than using a PC . A PC is a very electrically noisy enviroment and is constantly doing other things as well as sending the digital signal to your DAC. The good thing about a Pi is that you can either dedicate it to single use (Streamer , Player ) or if you have to use it as both streamer and player. This means all of its functions are aimed at this and nothing else . It will sound excellent straight out of the box and using a standard Raspberry Pi wallwart power supply . I have found though that the addition of a Linear Power Supply does improve the SQ quite a bit and if you are using a Pi as your stand alone server then an upgrade to the latest model Pi 4 offers a very noticable improvement in sound quality . Adding an LPSU to this gives additional improvement.
With regard to the addition of an LPSU there are some really expensive units which will work but I would suggest that looking for a decent used one on e-bay or in the classifieds on the various forums is a better use of money . Yes you can pay lots and i am sure it will sound very good but you will get probably 80% of the improvement with a much cheaper but decent unit. I recently picked up an SMCL P-2 for around £45 and provided you use it on players only (it does not have enough power for a Server plus USB HD which is power hungry you do need a full 3 amp pSU for this) it sounds very good indeed and is beautifully made for the price .
Just to add my tuppence worth. Have used Hifiberry Digi hats with Pi2, 3, 3B over the years. All been excellent, fed coax into into Beresford or Marantz Dac's.
Now using Pi4 without hat. Usb direct to dac, and to my ears fairly significant improvement. No idea how, why what...just sounds better to me.
Just to add my tuppence worth. Have used Hifiberry Digi hats with Pi2, 3, 3B over the years. All been excellent, fed coax into into Beresford or Marantz Dac's.
Now using Pi4 without hat. Usb direct to dac, and to my ears fairly significant improvement. No idea how, why what...just sounds better to me.On the Pi4 they cleaned up the usb connection [emoji6]
I would suggest this has made a huge difference. If using Pi 4 and usb no need for hat.
Sherwood
09-08-2020, 10:28
I would suggest this has made a huge difference. If using Pi 4 and usb no need for hat.
Yes, the Rpi 4 has addressed earlier design errors with the USB bus and I am sure that audio now sounds better through that port on the new model. However, I seriously doubt that a raw RPi4 usb device could compete with with a well engineered Pi Hat combo for SQ. I would suggest you try and hear an RPi with an Allo Digone board or something of similar quality.
I had a digione with my Pi3. I never heard any improvement over my Hifiberry digi+ so sold it on.
To my ears the Pi4 direct from USB to dac sounds better than both. YMMV
Thanks for everyone's input. Really helpful. So considering I already have the Pi3 should I go HiFiBerry to try it out or all in with the Digione?
There's a fairly big price difference but I wouldn't want to get the HiFiBerry and then be tempted to upgrade in a couple of months time.
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I had a digione with my Pi3. I never heard any improvement over my Hifiberry digi+ so sold it on.
To my ears the Pi4 direct from USB to dac sounds better than both. YMMVOf course it all depends on the DAC your using.
[emoji6]
Sherwood
09-08-2020, 18:27
Thanks for everyone's input. Really helpful. So considering I already have the Pi3 should I go HiFiBerry to try it out or all in with the Digione?
There's a fairly big price difference but I wouldn't want to get the HiFiBerry and then be tempted to upgrade in a couple of months time.
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I had a Hifiberry before my current Allo Digione. The Hifiberry was good but the latter was clearly superior though as you say, it should be given the price differential. One piece of advice: use the BNC output. A good BNC to RCA cable can be had for under £15.
I had a Hifiberry before my current Allo Digione. The Hifiberry was good but the latter was clearly superior though as you say, it should be given the price differential. One piece of advice: use the BNC output. A good BNC to RCA cable can be had for under £15.What's the advantage of using the BNC output over the coax?
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Sherwood
10-08-2020, 08:44
It sounds better! Not night and day better, but definitely noticeable.
What's the advantage of using the BNC output over the coax?
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Bourneendboy
10-08-2020, 09:11
If and when I make a change (pretty well made my mind up that I'm sticking with the Boss for the time being) I'll go for a Pi 4 via USB with no hat.
If and when I make a change (pretty well made my mind up that I'm sticking with the Boss for the time being) I'll go for a Pi 4 via USB with no hat.Then you'll need to decide which DAC [emoji6]
Bourneendboy
10-08-2020, 09:34
Then you'll need to decide which DAC [emoji6]
I was considering the NJC DAC, hence my original post.
I'm not convinced any change in DAC will improve my listening pleasure at the moment and can't be bothered with the hassle of a change and the additional cost.
Forgotten we had discussed this earlier in the thread Mike:)
I was considering the NJC DAC, hence my original post.
I'm not convinced any change in DAC will improve my listening pleasure at the moment and can't be bothered with the hassle of a change and the additional cost.
Forgotten we had discussed this earlier in the thread Mike:)Oops, yeah I'd forgotten that's what started the debate [emoji23]
Oops, yeah I'd forgotten that's what started the debate [emoji23]Sorry I hijacked the thread guys.
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Bourneendboy
10-08-2020, 11:44
Sorry I hijacked the thread guys.
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No problem at all, makes things more interesting for all participating:)
No problem at all, makes things more interesting for all participating:)That's what I was thinking too, great to get differing opinions [emoji4]
That's what I was thinking too, great to get differing opinions [emoji4]I'm sure there'll be some differing opinions with the next question then.....
Software for the Pi. I have FLAC files saved to my NAS and use Spotify too. What software is everyone using and why?
.
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PaulBarnett
10-08-2020, 12:52
What's the advantage of using the BNC output over the coax?
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On my digione, the signal voltage thru the BNC socket is twice that thru the RCA socket. (as the standard requires). This might explain any differences you might hear. And in my case, it also made the difference between an RME ADI-2 DAC locking on to the signal, and not.
I'm sure there'll be some differing opinions with the next question then.....
Software for the Pi. I have FLAC files saved to my NAS and use Spotify too. What software is everyone using and why?
.
Sent from my SM-G960F using TapatalkI use Logitech Media Server installed on an Intel NUC and left to run 24/7. Then Material Skin installed on LMS and MoOde Audio on the Pi.
This gives me access to Qobuz, Spotify, Bandcamp, Radio Paradise, TuneinRadio and my NAS drive. Plenty of other plugins can be added to LMS.
I dropped Roon in favour of LMS and the Material Skin [emoji6]
I use Logitech Media Server with the Max2play Distro . LMS is installed on a Pi 4 8GB units as stand alone server then I have various players Pi based all with Digi Hats to send to the DAC,s or DSP units i use in each system. I have a Digione in my main system with Shanti power supply but if I am honest it is not that much better than a Pi with HifiDigiberry Pro + and the Shanti power supply . I would not be able to tell the difference accurately enough to say which was being used . I use Materila Skin on my laptop , Tablet and Android pgone to control whaterver system I am using at that time . Main reason for LMS is the support and number of plug in's it offers for all the things I need (BBC iPlayer / Extras, Radio Paradise)
VillageIdiot
13-08-2020, 16:20
I use Logitech Media Server with the Max2play Distro
Why not plain vanilla LMS? What does Max2play bring to the party?
just as well off and cheaper to use the Material Skin ( voluntary donation ) than pay for Max2play ;)
You still get ALL the plugins with Material Skin and it works great, as I mentioned earlier I gave up on Roon to use LMS and Material, try it,you might like it, if not then try the paid for Max2play
I use Logitech Media Server with the Max2play Distro . LMS is installed on a Pi 4 8GB units as stand alone server then I have various players Pi based all with Digi Hats to send to the DAC,s or DSP units i use in each system. I have a Digione in my main system with Shanti power supply but if I am honest it is not that much better than a Pi with HifiDigiberry Pro + and the Shanti power supply . I would not be able to tell the difference accurately enough to say which was being used . I use Materila Skin on my laptop , Tablet and Android pgone to control whaterver system I am using at that time . Main reason for LMS is the support and number of plug in's it offers for all the things I need (BBC iPlayer / Extras, Radio Paradise)I had planned on running something like Volumio on the Pi and assumed this would collate everything on my NAS and have a Spotify plugin.
I apologise for the noob question but does this setup require a separate server?
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Bourneendboy
14-08-2020, 07:48
I had planned on running something like Volumio on the Pi and assumed this would collate everything on my NAS and have a Spotify plugin.
I apologise for the noob question but does this setup require a separate server?
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You run Volumio straight from the SD card on the Pi and you get Spotify Connect as a plugin.
This is what I use and it works perfectly.
You run Volumio straight from the SD card on the Pi and you get Spotify Connect as a plugin.
This is what I use and it works perfectly.So Volumio (or similar) on my Pi links to my NAS through ethernet or wifi, collates all the files, album artwork etc?
It was the mention of separate servers that threw me. I have run Logitech Media Server previously on my Synology NAS so I can do that if there's an advantage?
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Bourneendboy
18-08-2020, 18:03
Just getting back to my original post .
I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on the NJC DAC and now really quite keen to use a Chromecast Audio rather than a R-Pi. The main reason being that the CCA will give me access to anything I'd like to listen to.
Let's assume the NJC DAC is well designed, how much difference does the streaming part actually make?
I like the idea of CCA via optical to the DAC and powered by an iFi ipower PSU.
How will this compare to a R-Pi with a Digi hat via optical?
Cheers for any further guidance chaps
I use the Max2play Distro because I find it simple and easy to use and add the settings and set ups I need . I am not that bothered about the cost but fully realise that others are not happy paying for this type of software. I list Max2play as I use it and so it can change the way I load and set up things like LMS and the HAts . I find it a very useful and helpful piece of software but it does not need to be there and if anyone else prefers picore player and other distros then fine they should use what they are happy with . For me at least Max2play is very simple to install Hat and DAC types , attach a USB HD , install and upgrade LMS other find this easy to do with other distros I have often tried them but find certain parts difficult (like adding a USB HD to picore player , I find this impossible to do but would probably find it much easier if I had someone to walk me through it) . So please do not take it that I am saying you need to use Max2play with LMS you most certainly do not , I do and it is my preference because i find it easy to do and I am comfortable with the costs which i think are not that much anyway .
I am puzzled by what service a Chromecast can offer that a Pi with LMS is not able to ? LMS even has a plug for Chromecast . As far as I am aware LMS offers all of the options that you need , Wireless , Bluetooth , Quboz , Deezer , Tidal , Spotify , BBC radio , Radio Paradise , Digital Radio , USB Attached Hard Drive , Digital Out either Coaxial or Optical with the addition of a hat ,DSD, most Codecs including FLAC , WAV , MP3, ALAC connection to any UpNP Database , connection to any network storage . I have no doubt that I have missed some thing off this list but would be interested to see what option Chromecast has that a Pi with LMS does not . If you feel that a Chromecast is a better otption then great that works for you but if there is somehting I am missing i want to know what it is as I might well think about switching to a Chromecast myself .
Bourneendboy
24-08-2020, 19:21
I am puzzled by what service a Chromecast can offer that a Pi with LMS is not able to ? LMS even has a plug for Chromecast . As far as I am aware LMS offers all of the options that you need , Wireless , Bluetooth , Quboz , Deezer , Tidal , Spotify , BBC radio , Radio Paradise , Digital Radio , USB Attached Hard Drive , Digital Out either Coaxial or Optical with the addition of a hat ,DSD, most Codecs including FLAC , WAV , MP3, ALAC connection to any UpNP Database , connection to any network storage . I have no doubt that I have missed some thing off this list but would be interested to see what option Chromecast has that a Pi with LMS does not . If you feel that a Chromecast is a better otption then great that works for you but if there is somehting I am missing i want to know what it is as I might well think about switching to a Chromecast myself .
Thanks for your informative message.
I'm not familiar with LMS, I'll have a look into it.
Can I use it with just the Pi or do I need it on a PC?
I run my LMS install on an Intel NUC that runs 24/7 and then Pi/Allo Boss DAC to amp. LMS can be run alongside Picoreplayer on the same Pi but I prefer it to be separate, it can also run on a separate Pi or desktop but of course it needs to be running for the output Pi/DAC to be able to work.
I access Qobuz, Spotify, Bandcamp, TuneinRadio, Radio Paradise add my NAS drive.
Here's a few screenshots of what it looks like on my phone with the Material Skin running on LMS. I use the iPad most times but that has been purloined for a zoom session this morning [emoji3525]
I have control of the main system in the living room that's using MoOde Audio in the Pi and upstairs in my computer room I have another Pi running Picoreplayer, I wanted to try Picoreplayer hence the two different systems.
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Today I changed my Pi DAC Hat from an Allo Boss to the Orchard Audio PecanPi DAC Hat.
Big difference in sound quality, mind you big difference in price too, but I have to say I’m very impressed with it.
Everything sound wise has taken a big step up, bass is deeper, better defined, soundstage is wider and deeper, crystal clear highs without being edgy. Every instrument just seems to have filled out a lot more, I heard things on tracks I’m very familiar with that I’ve not heard before.
Still using MoOde Audio with Logitech Media Server and the Material Skin as that’s the setup I prefer.
PecanPi - Highly recommended [emoji6]
https://orchardaudio.com/pecanpi
Bourneendboy
28-08-2020, 06:29
Today I changed my Pi DAC Hat from an Allo Boss to the Orchard Audio PecanPi DAC Hat.
Big difference in sound quality, mind you big difference in price too, but I have to say I’m very impressed with it.
Everything sound wise has taken a big step up, bass is deeper, better defined, soundstage is wider and deeper, crystal clear highs without being edgy. Every instrument just seems to have filled out a lot more, I heard things on tracks I’m very familiar with that I’ve not heard before.
Still using MoOde Audio with Logitech Media Server and the Material Skin as that’s the setup I prefer.
PecanPi - Highly recommended [emoji6]
https://orchardaudio.com/pecanpi
That's good to hear! Do you have a case for it?
That's good to hear! Do you have a case for it?
No I just bought the bare DAC and it’s plugged into the Pi gpio socket then they’re fixed to a plate of aluminium, it’s never on view anyway as it’s down behind the HiFi unit and is never seen.
I don’t need a case so didn’t bother with one and saved some cash.
No I just bought the bare DAC and it’s plugged into the Pi gpio socket then they’re fixed to a plate of aluminium, it’s never on view anyway as it’s down behind the HiFi unit and is never seen.
I don’t need a case so didn’t bother with one and saved some cash.
Funnily enough, just received an aluminium sheet to bolt both the Pecan dac and the Allo sig to.
I was just looking at it thinking I might as well get a cheap Chinese case and put them both in.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200828/0bc2503e122b8b1cd8958024cc0c0144.jpg
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Funnily enough, just received an aluminium sheet to bolt both the Pecan dac and the Allo sig to.
I was just looking at it thinking I might as well get a cheap Chinese case and put them both in.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200828/0bc2503e122b8b1cd8958024cc0c0144.jpg
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Cool, I’m interested in your gpio cable, I’ve not fitted mine as I wasn’t sure which way round to have it, I see the red edge going to the Pecan so that helps me, which way is the Pi facing within the Allo bridge?
Cool, I’m interested in your gpio cable, I’ve not fitted mine as I wasn’t sure which way round to have it, I see the red edge going to the Pecan so that helps me, which way is the Pi facing within the Allo bridge?
Hi Mike.
I’ve already zapped an old raspberry pi by getting the gpio cable the wrong way ... so it pays to be careful!!
The Pecan would sit as it looks in the photo. So that the 40 pin connectors would clip together with the underside of the Pecan dropping down into the pi.
So when you get the cable it’s useful to look at the red strip at one end and make sure you have both ends where they should be.
Am I making sense? Possibly not, but it is very straightforward when you get the cable and you can visualise how it is just an extension of how the dac would sit onto the pi.
By the way the Pecan Pi is fantastic when married to the Allo USbridgre and linear power to both the pi and dac. Not cheap, but I am very impressed with what Orchard have done with a humble HAT.
Good luck !
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Cool, I’m interested in your gpio cable, I’ve not fitted mine as I wasn’t sure which way round to have it, I see the red edge going to the Pecan so that helps me, which way is the Pi facing within the Allo bridge?
Sorry Mike
To answer your question the pi sits with the 40 pin connector on top and I’ll lift the lid and take a pic
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Cool, I’m interested in your gpio cable, I’ve not fitted mine as I wasn’t sure which way round to have it, I see the red edge going to the Pecan so that helps me, which way is the Pi facing within the Allo bridge?
Of course the Allo Sig USbridge is not a pi, it just uses the core. However the principle is the same.
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This might make it clearer
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Thanks for that Steve, I've been busy building something else over the weekend so no time to play [emoji29]
Maybe next weekend [emoji23]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/2c7da9da56e1eefd60e6cacf7b25650d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/b6e228f20b351d05ab80fd781a289aec.jpg
Very cool.
Could do with that over our car parking area. Could you bob round.
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Very cool.
Could do with that over our car parking area. Could you bob round.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOnly if you've room for the invalid chair that I'm going to need tomorrow [emoji23][emoji23]
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