Vintage British valve integrated amplifier [Archive]

F575M

13-07-2020, 16:03

Hi Chaps,

I would like to find an integrated valve amp for my Tannoy Devons, I have had several valve amps in the past - Leak, Radford and QUAD - but I do no recall having seen an integrated unit.

Any suggestions?

Cheers,

Horacio

anthonyTD

13-07-2020, 16:07

Rogers Cadet ?
Hi Chaps,

I would like to find an integrated valve amp for my Tannoy Devons, I have had several valve amps in the past - Leak, Radford and QUAD - but I do no recall having seen an integrated unit.

Any suggestions?

Cheers,

Horacio

F575M

13-07-2020, 16:54

Hi Anthony,

How could have I missed it? There is one for sale in Cornwall but I also found a new Rogers V now made in Germany, kind of expensive, 2.199,00 €. Please see link.

https://rogershifi.de/produkte/amplifier/rogers-cadet-v-stereo-integrated-valve-amplifier/

Barry

13-07-2020, 17:00

A friend of mine had one - nice little amplifier, if lacking power and bass grip.

https://www.hifinews.com/content/rogers-cadet-iii-vintage

10W is just about sufficient for the Tannoy Devons with 89dB/W sensitivity.

Another vintage British integrated amplifier to consider is the EMI 555 Stereoscope (aka HMV 555 Stereoscope) amplifier. Also 10W/channel from a pair of EL84s in push-pull. Very well built by the UK company Clarke and Smith, these units are quite rare, but occasionally come up for sale.

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/VAIAAOSwbURclU65/s-l225.jpg

anthonyTD

13-07-2020, 17:01

Hi Horacio,
Indeed, infact i have one sat at the side of me in my workshop, its a Cadet 3, i have had it a while, i have had most roger's models in at some point over the years.
A...
Hi Anthony,

How could have I missed it? There is one for sale in Cornwall but I also found a new Rogers V now made in Germany, kind of expensive, 2.199,00 €. Please see link.

https://rogershifi.de/produkte/amplifier/rogers-cadet-v-stereo-integrated-valve-amplifier/

F575M

13-07-2020, 17:11

The Cadet III is rated at 12W/Ch, enough to drive my Devons for classical music?

anthonyTD

13-07-2020, 17:19

I would think so, although some here might disagree, a lot depends on the size of your room, and how closely you listen. Safe to say, i think you would be surprised!
The Cadet III is rated at 12W/Ch, enough to drive my Devons for classical music?

anthonyTD

13-07-2020, 17:22

Scott are another manufacturer of fine vintage integrated's to look out for too, especialy over your side of the pond.
A...

F575M

13-07-2020, 17:31

The Cadet has a phono stage for ceramic cartridges and I will need a phono stage for magnetic types, a big problem.

Barry

13-07-2020, 17:31

The Cadet III is rated at 12W/Ch, enough to drive my Devons for classical music?

Not according to: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/rogers/cadet-iii.shtml

But even with 10W and the 89dB/w sensitivity of the Tannoy Devons, you will be able to achieve maximum SPL of 99dB. That is pretty loud (certainly it's loud enough for me), but a typical orchestra can easily achieve much higher levels on peak tuttis, so you might feel you lack the dynamics required to reproduce symphonies realistically.

martian sunrise

13-07-2020, 17:49

Tune technology Unisis was great with my Eatons. I wish I kept it.

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walpurgis

13-07-2020, 17:52

I've used the Cadet III and Cadet II with Tannoys and it will work, but the Leak Stereo 20 is way better.

Barry

13-07-2020, 18:04

I've used the Cadet III and Cadet II with Tannoys and it will work, but the Leak Stereo 20 is way better.

Agreed - but the OP is interested in an integrated amplifier.

F575M

13-07-2020, 18:24

Yes, there is one for sale on ebay but it is a 220VAC, bloody hell!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TUBE-TECHNOLOGY-UNISIS-POWER-AMPLIFIER/254481274449?hash=item3b40441651:g:8oMAAOSwRi9eHcr y

Jazid

13-07-2020, 19:49

I'd be looking at a Leben CS300. It's not vintage or British but hell, it looks vintage, classy, sounds great, and will do the job with your Tannoys.

People didn't really make integrated amps back then, they made control units which were small, had record equalisation stages, and had better styled fascias to poke through the front of your radiogram, and the main amplifiers which were large, unattractive (for the time) with hot dangerous glowing bits, and designed to be put out of sight in the innards of your radiogram.

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F575M

13-07-2020, 20:21

The new Rogers EA20 is made in Germany but, according to the company, it uses electronic components from Japan, Taiwan or Korea.

Jazid

13-07-2020, 20:26

The new Rogers EA20 is made in Germany but, according to the company, it uses electronic components from Japan, Taiwan or Korea....like everything else [emoji16]...

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anthonyTD

14-07-2020, 08:07

Bump!
Scott are another manufacturer of fine vintage integrated's to look out for too, especialy over your side of the pond.
A...

F575M

14-07-2020, 16:14

Pharos

14-07-2020, 16:30

Found a UNISIS tube tech power amp but, bloody hell, it is a 240VAC amp. Many people who move to countries with different voltages use step-down, step-up transformers. How much will the sound deteriorate if I use a step-down transformer? It is a great amp.

Horacio
There is something not right in your statement/question.

F575M

14-07-2020, 16:32

I live in the States, it can be used with a step-down transformer but at what "sonic" price? How much will the transformer alter the original sound? It will be another link in the audio chain.

Barry

14-07-2020, 17:09

I live in the States, it can be used with a step-down transformer but at what "sonic" price? How much will the transformer alter the original sound? It will be another link in the audio chain.

Provided a good quality step-down transformer is used, having a sufficiently high VA rating, impregnated laminations, and complete absence of mechanical mains 'hum' due to loose laminations vibrating, then despite it being another link in the chain it should not impact on the sound quality of the amplifier.

But there is not only a change in mains voltage (115V) but there is also a change in frequency (60Hz). The latter may have an effect, it depends on the design of the mains transformer used, but should not to be a problem with any well designed amplifier.

I use several items of US audio gear, designed to be used with either voltage (115/230V) and frequency (50/60Hz), and all of them perform flawlessly.

F575M

14-07-2020, 18:11

It makes a lot of sense, thank you. Some UK made amplifiers have multi voltage options.

I have been communicating with the owner of a pair of METAMPs 5-20 - multi voltage, they are listed on ebay. Out of curiosity, I did a web search and, to my surprise, they have been for sale for a generation, since 2011. Once I read the forum's comments about the Metamp I panicked, there are several negative reviews.

AD Audio

14-07-2020, 20:20

Yes, there is one for sale on ebay but it is a 220VAC, bloody hell!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TUBE-TECHNOLOGY-UNISIS-POWER-AMPLIFIER/254481274449?hash=item3b40441651:g:8oMAAOSwRi9eHcr yEasily sorted with a bucking transformer!

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F575M

14-07-2020, 20:47

It is a dual voltage amp 110/220. There are many posts on this forum regarding the Matamp, it has too many problems. No wonder it has been on the market for almost a decade. Go figure.

Pharos

14-07-2020, 21:57

Found a UNISIS tube tech power amp but, bloody hell, it is a 240VAC amp. Many people who move to countries with different voltages use step-down, step-up transformers. How much will the sound deteriorate if I use a step-down transformer? It is a great amp.

Horacio

If you live in the States where I think the voltage is lower than that of the amplifier you mention, you will need a step-up transformer not a step down one.

Macca

15-07-2020, 07:31

If you live in the States where I think the voltage is lower than that of the amplifier you mention, you will need a step-up transformer not a step down one.

Correct - You'll need a step up transformer as you are going from 110 coming out the wall to 240 going into the amp to make it work properly.

Effect on SQ is debatable. Some say it makes no difference, some say it does reduce SQ. I don't see how it can effect SQ. The amp doesn't know what is happening to the voltage before it gets to it.

Jazid

15-07-2020, 08:17

Barry has nailed it in post 22. As long as you use a well made step up trafo with sufficient Watts or VA rating it won't impact SQ. Ideally one with significantly higher rating than the amp actually needs to avoid voltage sag which might affect performance. Bear in mind this will raise the voltage beyond specified so it is prudent to buy a step up trafo for 120 - 230V rather than 110 - 240V.

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Pharos

15-07-2020, 09:51

Arguably it might also provide some spike filtering, but make sure that the current rating is sufficient or greater.

F575M

15-07-2020, 16:28

I am also considering a Beard BB-100 integrated amplifier.

anthonyTD

16-07-2020, 08:47

I have a Beard P35 amp on the bench at the moment, i used to see quite a few Beard amps for service/repair, but not so these days, good amps though, the 100 can suffer from unstable bias, but is easily rectified with the fitment of some new parts ie; pots etc in the bias circuit.
Hope this helps.
A...
I am also considering a Beard BB-100 integrated amplifier.

F575M

16-08-2020, 21:36

Chaps,

I am a little bit excited, I think I found the proper amplifier for my Devons, the Art Audio Diavolo 300B single ended triode amplifier. Art Audio is located in Hacknall, Nottingham. It is a 10W amplifier and I am not sure it will drive my Devons satisfactorily.

Please see ling attached. There is a used one at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.artaudio.co.uk/

Cheers,

Horacio

Sherwood

17-08-2020, 05:49

You should call Tom Willis, the guy behind Art Audio. He will give you honest advice on the suitability of this amp for your Devons.

Chaps,

I am a little bit excited, I think I found the proper amplifier for my Devons, the Art Audio Diavolo 300B single ended triode amplifier. Art Audio is located in Hacknall, Nottingham. It is a 10W amplifier and I am not sure it will drive my Devons satisfactorily.

Please see ling attached. There is a used one at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.artaudio.co.uk/

Cheers,

Horacio

F575M

17-08-2020, 17:13

Hi Sherwood,

Here is Tom's email:

HELLO HORACIO,

I WILL FORWARD YOU E MAIL TO OUR DISTRIBUTOR IN THE STATES, HE WILL CONTACT YOU REGARDING YOUR QUESTIONS.

AS A RIDER, WE HAVE IN OUR DESIGN, A RATHER SOPHISTICATED POWER TUBE BIASING ARRANGEMENT. THIS HAS BEEN CONCEIVED TO PROTECT YOUR INVESTMENT IN THE NOW EXPENSIVE 300B TUBES ESPECIALLY WE300B’S. IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED THAT THE AMPLIFIER BE TESTED FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME INTO A FIXED RESISTER LOAD. WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THE AUTOMATIC BIAS WILL CLOSE DOWN THE TUBE IF IT IS WORKED HARD AT IT’S PREDETERMINED OPERATING POINT. IT WILL ALLOW PEEKS IN EXCESS OF THIS VALUE. ONCE IT IS SET UP THERE IS NO NEED TO ADJUST, JUST PLUG AND PLAY.

SPEAKERS 90db OR ABOVE ARE RECOMMENDED, BUT IN A SMALLER ROOM THEN 89db SHOULD BE FINE.

I AM SURPRISED THAT YOUR FRIEND IS ONLY GETTING 6 WATTS FROM HIS VV32B DIAVOLO THEY ARE ETHER OLD OR HIS BIASING IS OUT. THESE TYPES WERE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING IF SET UP PROPERLY 15 WATTS.

KIND REGARDS
TOM WILLIS

spendorman

17-08-2020, 17:45

The Cadet III is rated at 12W/Ch, enough to drive my Devons for classical music?

Possibly, but the Rogers HG88 Mk3 in my view is a better bet.

F575M

17-08-2020, 18:10

There is one in Christchurch listed on ebay: £1,149.00 plus shipping, I think it is too expensive but your opinions count. It is an integrated, I will not have to buy a preamplifier.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 18:15

The Cadet has a phono stage for ceramic cartridges and I will need a phono stage for magnetic types, a big problem.

The Cadet III has a plug in adaptor for different cartridges, sliver label one for Ceramic/ Crystal, Gold label one for magnetic. (from memory!).

Also, no 8 Ohm output as such, but the 16 Ohm output may well do.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 18:19

There is one in Christchurch listed on ebay: £1,149.00 plus shipping, I think it is too expensive but your opinions count. It is an integrated, I will not have to buy a preamplifier.

This is a Mk2, not a Mk3, I think. The later HG88 had a similar style front panel to the Cadet III. Black/ silver.

Still, the one you have pictured is a nice amp.

Sherwood

17-08-2020, 18:21

There is one in Christchurch listed on ebay: £1,149.00 plus shipping, I think it is too expensive but your opinions count. It is an integrated, I will not have to buy a preamplifier.

I had one of these and it drove my Rogers LS3/5a's very well. However, this is a crazy price. My Art Audio Quintet (15w triode/25w pentode mode) would sell for around that price and it is far superior to an old Rogers. You can do much better for that money.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 18:23

This is the later HG88

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rogers+hg88+mk+III&t=hk&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fselect45rpm.com%2Fpages%2Fhifi%2F hifi-sold%2FROGERSHG88III%2F1.jpg

walpurgis

17-08-2020, 18:27

The last one I bought was from a boot sale for £25. Mind you, that was a long time ago. :)

spendorman

17-08-2020, 18:28

I have had the HG88 III, it was one of the better amps that I have owned.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 18:30

I have had no experience of this

https://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/va-one-2/

It looks interesting.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 18:32

A point about the Devon's, I also have a pair and a single ended EL34 amp that I own does not have enough output for me with these speakers.

F575M

17-08-2020, 18:33

I only found a Quintet at X Electrical in King Street, London for £995, I will write to see if they will ship. That would be a great amp if I can buy it.

http://xelectrical.com/item/Art-Audio-Quintet-12781

Sherwood

17-08-2020, 18:52

Horacio,

One point to consider. Most of these vintage British amps do not have a 110v option. I know many US homes have doubling voltages for high power devices. Do you have a 240v supply?

F575M

17-08-2020, 18:56

Yes, I can ask my electrician to do it but a decent Hammond [Canada] step-up transformer for $131 will do.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 19:01

Horacio,

One point to consider. Most of these vintage British amps do not have a 110v option. I know many US homes have doubling voltages for high power devices. Do you have a 240v supply?

Just looked at my Cadet III, has provision for voltage change, includes 110 and 120V, from memory, the HG88 III has provision too, so do most of my Quad amps.

Looked at a pic of the HG88 III, that also has provision for voltage adjustment.

F575M

17-08-2020, 19:12

Frightfully sorry mate, I forgot to mention that all the houses in the US have 220VAC for ovens, air conditioning and pumps for people who have pools, the rest run on 110VAC 60Hz.

I think that the Audio Art Quintet is a better amp for the money that the HG88.

Cheers,

spendorman

17-08-2020, 19:20

That was a bit much for the HG88 II, but I would not underestimate the sound quality of HG88 II or III.

Are you going to use a tape deck?

F575M

17-08-2020, 19:30

No, I sold my tape deck. Just LPs and a few CDs.

spendorman

17-08-2020, 19:39

Because the tape record output of old valve integrated amps is at high impedance.

Sherwood

17-08-2020, 19:46

Sherwood

17-08-2020, 19:48

PM sent

F575M

17-08-2020, 23:19

Just found this Woodside ST35 for sale in Ontario, it is a 110VAC unit. CAD 1.700 [$1.300]. But I am leaning towards the Quintet.

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649629779-woodside-sta-35-renaissance/?utm_campaign=response-received&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email

DiggyGun

06-09-2020, 08:41

Have you looked at Icon Audio valve amplifiers?

Although new, they are based on Leaks and do have a vintage look about them.

spendorman

06-09-2020, 09:29