POWER! Bel Canto style

[Filterlab]

On the upgrade path, looking to replace the Arcam A85 which is a fine and brilliant amplifier, but is serving as a power amp only (it has a pre bypass function which switches off everything except the input channels and the power stage).

Looking to leap up a bit I find myself in the £2,500 area, although not necessarily for a new purchase; a used at that price would suffice perfectly. Obviously plenty of power is useful as my lounge is rather large, and ideally with XLR inputs as my Leema DAC has balanced outputs.

I saw the Bel Canto Ref 500S power amplifier on a quick search, and although I'm very aware of the name and the quality of their products, I can hardly find a review anywhere.

Does anyone on here have experience with this particular amp or their amps in general?

[Manicatel]

Not this particular amp, but I use a BC Pre & DAC into my active ATC speakers.
I am very impressed with my BC stuff. Great build quality, & a sound I would describe as neutral/analogue-ish.
They don’t over-emphasise any particular area, everything is just right. Bass, detail, top end, soundstage, the music just seems to come with an unforced nature.
I have heard that their CD player had some reliability issues, but that is word of mouth rather than personal experience.
The Arcam stuff for me is a bit on the smooth/safe side, so I would guess the BC Power amp would give a bit more boogie-factor.
So yea, if the price is right & the connectivity works for you, then I would feel very comfortable giving the BC stuff a strong recommendation.

[Filterlab]

Thanks for that, sounds like the Bel Canto is my cup of tea.

A lot of Arcam stuff is smooth and safe, I've had several pieces. However this A85 is a very different beast - exceptionally crisp and dynamic without being overblown anywhere. It was a bit of a departure from their standard sound, and still stands out against newer amps oddly. I'm not sure why it was like that, but it is heralded.

Still, sounds like the BC would be more of the same, but more. :lol:

Thanks for the insight, nice to hear that it's what I imagined it would be. Now, where to find one for audition?!

[Filterlab]

Oooh, just found Criterion Audio in Cambridge. Just down the road! :lol:

[hifinutt]

Rob , well this is an interesting thread . I have a love for the arcam a85 AND the bel canto stuff . in fact i have the ref 500s and intend to sell very soon . Its a very dynamic , well built amp which will last for many years . It really grips spaekers and used with the bel canto pre 3 [ of which i have 2 and just had a custom cables dc3 made for it [http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc3-power-supply] which has lifted its performance

I have had loads of bel canto stuff and its very long lasting , sometimes i see amps i had 10 years ago for sale still going strong

some months back i had to sell my beautiful 200 watt MSB to pay some bills and replaced it with some icepower amps which were dynamic and warm which rather surprised me and they are used with tannoys now . so the ref 500s is icepower

this is mine
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49713320866_02547a16dd_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iJZLiQ)P1060998 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJZLiQ) by [/url], on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49713640962_4ce2edbfba_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/)P1060997 (https://flic.kr/p/2iK2psJ) by , on Flickr

review here
agree with this :

It is a very quiet amp (very low noise threshold,) and its compact size and low weight made the added equipment install a breeze.
Overall the bass was solid, midrange clear, and highs crisp and well defined.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/power-amplifier/bel-canto-s500-power-amplifier/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/)

Dual 125ASX2 ICEpower Modules
Power Output: 200 Watts x 2 into 8 Ohms

another review of the 500m which is the same amp but monoblocks of course

According to John Stronczer, the ICEpower 125ASX2 sports a more advanced architecture than its ASP series predecessors with fully integrated custom control ICs, which yields lower distortion, improved low noise levels, and yields a wider bandwidth.

At least under bench measurements, the 125ASX2 easily bests the performance of the equivalent module in the older ASP series—the 500ASP, still employed by many well respected class D power amplifiers of the previous generation, such as the Rowland Model 201 monoblock. For example, while the harmonic distortion of 500ASP measures a modest 0.006% THD+N at 1KHz 1W, the newer 125ASX2 rates even lower, at a mere 0.003% under same conditions. 500ASP's noise floor is rated at 80uV, while 125ASX2 measures less than half, at only 35uV. Raw dynamic range measurements are particularly interesting because they may help to explain some of my surprising findings in the key domains of staging, imaging, and authority. The older generation 500ASP yields 115dB, while 125ASX2 extends dynamic range to 121dB. The measurement is 1dB higher than the outwardly more powerful 1000ASP module, which is deployed inside such class D power houses as the Bel Canto REF1000M

The foregoing also implies that, combined with their very high damping factor of 1000 below 100Hz, the Bel Canto REF500M monoblocks are engineered to handle the challenging loads presented by moderately sized bipolar and electrostatic speakers, as well as—to my delighted surprise--by fairly large dynamic speakers with complex impedance curves, and with deceptively demanding power handling requirements, like my own wild and wonderful Vienna Mahlers V1.5s.

[url]https://positive-feedback.com/Issue50/bel_canto500.htm

[hifinutt]

Now I have just been using my A85 as a power amp with the ref 500s and the ref 500s is most certainly better used with the big impulse taus [ rfc modded] which no doubt you have seen as i post pics all the time . its grips better , more alive , more dynamic BUT

used as an integrated the A85 seems to suit the taus and its not bad at all . if you are ever in brum you are most welcome to hear them both

I recently had the mighty 10.4 k silbatone integrated here and that was most certainly better and more silkier than both amps but then it costs thousands more than them both !!!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49657375678_2e6d9d6925_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iE42KC)P1060956 (https://flic.kr/p/2iE42KC) by , on Flickr

[Filterlab]

Wow! That is a spot on reply matey, and how ironic that you have knowledge of both the very amps in my question. Nice to hear that you rate the BC so highly.

Thanks for the review info, and your own review too. Very informative. I think I’ll move this to the top of my list. I remember the first time I heard Class D amplification; back in 2008 at a show that AoS was involved in. The dealer was Robson Audio; he sold handbuilt speakers that were just astonishing - and his source and amp was the (then new) NuForce Class D stuff. I recall that Marco and Steve were also impressed by the teeny tiny red boxes that played utterly dynamically with solid balls, yet were controlled, clean and musical all at once. I’ve always been interested in Class D since as it’s the kind of sound I like.

I also admit to liking the fact that Class D doesn’t cost £100 an hour in electricity; such is the fact that puts me off Class A amplifiers at the same price.

Give me a shout when you’re getting close to ready and I’ll get some readies... er, ready. :lol:

Whereabouts are you in the country? **Just seen in your next reply. I’ll have to pop over at your convenience, hear your set up. 👍🏻

[Mr. C]

Belcanto ref series are not class 'd' it is a pwm switching amplifiers, the ref500s uses the later ice power modules which have a greater bandwidth than the ref1000 series, in may respects I preferred them to the earlier mono's. Nice sounding and compact amp

[hifinutt]

yes agreed , and i remember i had a pair of ref 1000 modded by you which were so good !!! but i do like the ref 500 s a lot

[Filterlab]

Belcanto ref series are not class 'd' it is a pwm switching amplifiers, the ref500s uses the later ice power modules which have a greater bandwidth than the ref1000 series, in may respects I preferred them to the earlier mono's. Nice sounding and compact amp

Thanks Mr. C for the correction, I now stand corrected (said the man in the orthopaedic shoes). I’m going to do a bit of reading on PWM which I guess is Pulse Width Modulation? I remember that term from early audio samplers in music production.

Are switching and Class D amps not the same thing though?..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier

[Mr. C]

A true class 'd' amplifier required a digital input a pwm amplifier uses pure analogue inputs.

The Devialet amplifiers are true class 'd' they have analogue inputs however they use an ADC to convert the analogue into a PWM bit stream so the amplifier can accept that format.

From that point onward the principle is the same, similar to the way dac works with the end result subjected to a low pass reconstruction filter from between 36Khz to 120 Khz dependent on manufacturer design criteria.

The incoming signal is up-sampled / up converted to a high frequency (hopefully over 500Khz) so the any noise is spread outside the pass band and will not be audible, they finally going through a LP filter which delivers your signal to the speakers.

I could go through so many variables on how, what and why they work or sound anodyne or bloomy lol but I do not have time today.

Some people love em others hate em, done correctly they could sound absolutely up with the best amplifier classes available, other models can sound total phish.

The future is moving more and more to this way due to efficiency, smaller footprint and costs.

One other feature of PWM amplifiers is that when looking at signals on an oscilloscope say a 4Khz sine wave, the resultant image looks like it has a beard attached to it, this is the high frequency noise that you cannot hear sitting on the wave form. Some people find it puts them off.
Some light reading lol (https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62385-Class-D-come-of-age-Coherent-amplification)

[Filterlab]

Thanks kindly Mr. C!

Hmmm, light reading indeed. :lol: