View Full Version : Speaker query?
Some time ago in the dim and distant past I acquired a pair of speakers from the estate of a deceased relative. It was my intention at the time to put together a system based around these but they got put in the loft and other priorities intervened.
Recently I was "informed" by she who must be obeyed that it was time to either do something with them or move them on so having struggled to get them out of the loft I was wondering if any of you knowledgeable folk could help me out with a few questions I have about them and suggest the best course of action as to what to do with them :scratch:
The cabinets appear to have been made (Label on rear) by Brahm's Manufacturing Co Rochester England
They are floor standing measuring H-850mm W-480mm D-400mm
The speakers themselves are labeled - Tannoy Dual Concentric Integrated Loudspeaker System - Rating 60w 8ohms - Sensitivity 1 Watt produces 90db @ 1mtr
On the rear crossover(?) they are marked T185 008806 & the other T185 010152
From what I have read so far I think the speakers may be called Dorset(?) and are late 70's vintage?
So ..... My question is - Do I keep them and buy/add components to make a complete system?
Would it be possible to connect them up to my TV as herself quite likes the look of the cabinets?
Should I forget about keeping them, sell them and look for other items?
Any help/advice/pointers very much appreciated.
DaveL
walpurgis
01-07-2020, 16:46
A photo or two would be useful. The Dorset was a Tannoy speaker model, but Brahms had nothing to do with this as far as I know. It's possible they are bespoke cabinets built by Brahms, but based on a Tannoy model and using Tannoy parts. They could have some value and be well worth using.
Many thank's for the reply.
I'll rustle up some pictures.
DaveL
Hopefully these are visible ?
2802028021280222802328024
A couple more
2802528026
DaveL
walpurgis
01-07-2020, 18:59
It looks to me that somebody has modified Brahms cabinets to accept the drive units from Tannoy Dorset speakers. I'd expect them to sound decent, but they may benefit from extra internal bracing, depending on whether any is present. They'd certainly be worth using I think. Assuming everything is functional, they have some value.
Drivers look to be in good condition. If so I'd keep them, you'd be looking at about 5 grand to replace with a similar new loudspeaker. Get a decent amplifier for them, should sound wonderful.
Drivers look to be in good condition. If so I'd keep them, you'd be looking at about 5 grand to replace with a similar new loudspeaker. Get a decent amplifier for them, should sound wonderful.
5k!! Seriously???
What's so special about them? Being a Luddite I just thought they'd just be run of the mill speakers?
If that's the case I'd assume that matching them up with other compatible components Amp/Tuner/Turntable etc is going to start getting rather expensive.
Any suggestion's for a suitable Amp if I decide to go down that route?
walpurgis
02-07-2020, 08:25
What's so special about them?
The upper driver is a proper Tannoy 'pepperpot' dual concentric unit. The nearest modern equivalent is the drive unit in the Tannoy Kensington speaker and you would pay a good few thousand for a set. However, the value of Dorsets is realistically somewhere between £400 and £800 and these are not original. A NAD 3020 would drive them just fine and sound good with them.
yup i'd think the value is in the pepperpots.. sold seperate you'd get decent money.
5k!! Seriously???
What's so special about them? Being a Luddite I justith othe thought they'd just be run of the mill speakers?
If that's the case I'd assume that matching them up wr compatible components Amp/Tuner/Turntable etc is going to start getting rather expensive.
Any suggestion's for a suitable Amp if I decide to go down that route?
Not at all. Tannoy dual concentrics are high end speakers, here's a review of the 'Eton' model https://www.avforums.com/reviews/tannoy-legacy-eaton-standmount-speaker-review.13980 price is £4.5K
Prices for used Tannoy DC speakers have been climbing steadily for some time as well.
They don't need a powerful or an expensive amplifier. Like Geoff says a NAD or something similar will be fine. Put the speakers either side of your telly, run an optical cable from the telly into a DAC and connect the DAC to the amplifier. Or get an amplifier with the DAC already built in. It will sound amazingly good. Like being in the cinema.
The upper driver is a proper Tannoy 'pepperpot' dual concentric unit. The nearest modern equivalent is the drive unit in the Tannoy Kensington speaker and you would pay a good few thousand for a set. However, the value of Dorsets is realistically somewhere between £400 and £800 and these are not original. A NAD 3020 would drive them just fine and sound good with them.
So just to confirm, these original Tannoy "Pepperpots" are the one's I have and non originals are go for between £400-£800?
I think I'd enjoy the challenge of building a system around these speakers but I'm not sure that my knowledge or bank balance would cope :confused:
I'm in a bit of a quandary now as to what to do :doh:
Any suggestions gratefully received :scratch:
Firebottle
02-07-2020, 09:46
David you are a lucky lad.
You are starting with a very good pair of speakers that are also quite efficient, meaning they don't need a big powerful amplifier to drive them.
You don't need to spend big money to get a decent sound, do you have any mates with hi-fi kit that you can borrow to see how things fit?
David you are a lucky lad.
You are starting with a very good pair of speakers that are also quite efficient, meaning they don't need a big powerful amplifier to drive them.
You don't need to spend big money to get a decent sound, do you have any mates with hi-fi kit that you can borrow to see how things fit?
Being no spring chicken myself I remember several of my mates back in the 60's/70's got quite heavily into HiFi.
As with many thing's we all got married and priorities turned to other thing's and equipment was sold on and replaced with nappies & prams!
Of those I'm still in contact with none I know of still have any decent equipment.
I do quite like the idea of rigging the speakers up to the tv as Macca suggested BUT the problem would be I'd need to majorly re-configure the front room and that may be a step to far for herself :lol:
I'll have to have a major think but I may end up putting them back in the loft or having to sell them.
Decisions..... Decisions :scratch::scratch:
Not at all. Tannoy dual concentrics are high end speakers, here's a review of the 'Eton' model https://www.avforums.com/reviews/tannoy-legacy-eaton-standmount-speaker-review.13980 price is £4.5K
Prices for used Tannoy DC speakers have been climbing steadily for some time as well.
They don't need a powerful or an expensive amplifier. Like Geoff says a NAD or something similar will be fine. Put the speakers either side of your telly, run an optical cable from the telly into a DAC and connect the DAC to the amplifier. Or get an amplifier with the DAC already built in. It will sound amazingly good. Like being in the cinema.
Ok, so having slept on it and and weighed up the options I've made a decision.
After reading the replies about these being fairly decent speakers I'm fascinated & intrigued as to how they would actually sound.
As I don't even know at present if they even work I think I'm going to go ahead and attempt the plan to rig them up to the tv and see how thing's go.
I'd also like to add something else like a compatible tuner and/or CD player without spending a fortune.
Geoff suggested adding a NAD 3020 amp of which there seem to be a number for sale on the various internet sites some which appear to be possibly different models ie. 3020A & 3020E? Is there any difference?
Does the 3020 have the DAC built in or would I also need a separate one?
Are there any other suitable amps I should be looking out for?
Similarly with a Tuner & CD player or anything else I would need to get started?
Any suggestions or thoughts very much appreciated.
if you go for one of the NAD 3020 variants (it doesn't really matter which version you pick they are all very similar) then you will need a separate DAC.
You could also look at the A&R A60, or anything by Rotel, JVC, Sony, Yamaha - all assuming that you want to keep the budget low but still get something of reasonable quality.
DACs start at about £30 new, if you have a modern flat screen telly then the simplest way to do it is optical cable from telly to DAC - make sure the DAC you select has optical input, also called TOSlink. An optical cable will cost about a tenner, maybe less.
£150 should about cover all of that and then you can try it out for proof of concept, you can always upgrade all the equipment at a later date.
FM tuners are no longer in demand so you can get one for £20 or less. Again anything from the Jap brands will suffice. My Technics tuner still works fine after 40 years. Although if you have satellite/cable there are a lot of radio stations on there already so you can listen to radio via the TV.
CD players don't tend to last as long so if you buy an old one you might only get 6 months out of it. But adequate can be had for under £50. Or you can buy one new from somewhere like Richer Sounds for about £100. Again you can pay more and get somewhat better sound quality, that's up to you. The CD player can be run stand alone into the line input of the amplifier (tape or aux inputs) or connected via a digital Coax cable (also called s/pdif) to the DAC.
EDIT - not all CD players have digital outputs so check this before you buy if you want to run the cd player through the DAC.
Lawrence001
03-07-2020, 09:43
Actually I'd go for a little Tripath amp which will sit comfortably by the TV. There's one which has a built in DAC and operates fully in the digital domain. There's one for sale on avforums right now.
Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
Lawrence001
03-07-2020, 10:06
Here you go the asking price is not far off the new price so scope to make an offer. You offer in the public thread on this forum.
https://www.avforums.com/threads/topping-vx2-amp-with-built-in-dac.2300395/
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Martin's advice is solid, and there are many second hand Jap amps from the seventies with extremely good performance.
This is an opportunity not to be wasted IMO.
Firstly many thanks to all for your suggestions it really is very much appreciated.
Special thank's to Martin who's given me several options to look out for and above all explained how to rig them up!
As a start I'm going to try to go with the NAD 3020 if I can find a decent one and a DAC connected to the tv and see how things go.
Regarding the DAC would this one be suitable > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avantree-Digital-Converter-Toslink-Headphone-Upgraded-Version-DAC/dp/B071WLVXN5 <
If things go to plan I'll update on any progress.
Thanks again all you've been a great help.
DaveL
Pigmy Pony
03-07-2020, 19:58
If you have a DVD or Blu Ray player knocking about, that would get your CDs up and running.
Ok, so an update >>>
The NAD 3020e arrived yesterday so with trepidation it was time to attempt connecting things together.
The Aventree DAC I'd bought came with an optical cable a USB power cable but I knew I'd probably need other cabling from the DAC to the Amp and also Amp to speakers so the first job was a quick trip to B&Q to grab the necessary cabling.
With (hopefully?) everything I'd need now in one place the first job was to lug the Tannoy's (which aren't exactly light) from where I had them stored into a rough position in front either side of the tv.
After a rummage around the rear of the tv I managed to find and connect both the optical & USB cables to the DAC ... So far so good.
Having nowhere sensible to position the NAD Amp at the moment I sat it on top of one of the Tannoy's as a temp measure and connected the DAC to the Amp with the new cable I'd just bought.
With a bit of cable stripping the Amp was then duly connected to the speakers.
Now with what I hoped was everything connected it was time to bite the bullet, turn things on and see if anything actually worked.
I turned the DAC volume up to max as suggested in the instructions - Turned the volume of the NAD right down and turned the tv on which happened to be the BBC news.
The DAC instruction noted that the tv sound output would need to be changed from the tv speakers to an audio output source and having changed this over the newsreader went deathly quite.
With much trepidation I gingerly turned the NAD's power on and very slowly turned the volume control up ..... All hell broke loose!!
I have six dogs who all live in the house and suddenly there was a strange man speaking from boxes on the floor which they found hard to understand!
Once both myself and the pack of rabid hounds had got over the initial shock of noises coming from the boxes on the floor rather than the normal tv I was feeling pretty chuffed.
Now I knew everything seemed to work I wanted to try some music so I found the Youtube app on the tv and searched for something I'd played before > "Relax" a 2004 version of Frankie goes to Hollywood with Ryan Malloy taking the lead after
Holly Johnson refused to perform with the re-formed group. Personally I prefer this version and if you liked the original give this one a go.
So I fire it up and BLOODY HELL!!!
What a difference in sound coming out of the Tannoy's compared to the tv or my computer!
Having now run through much more nostalgic stuff I'm hooked! I never realized just what a difference there would be between the tv sound and through a stand alone audio system.
Herself is currently as I type listening to Simon & Garfunkel so there seems to be a general seal of approval.
It seems a major re-configuration of the front room is now on the cards to be able to find a permanent home for the Tannoy's and amp etc.
Many, many thanks to all who have contributed & given me some pointers in this thread, it really is very much appreciated, thank you all.
Being old enough to have time on my hands one of my hobbies is local auctions and I'd always dismissed the many hifi/audio gear products that often crops up. Now I'll be looking twice at anything that turns up.
DaveL
Great.. Once you try some full fat cd quality you'll likely hear a difference to YouTube as well, as it will be mp3 or summat like that
walpurgis
11-07-2020, 07:48
All going well then :)
As Grant says, you should get good sound from CD.
Don't forget to use the treble adjuster on the speakers. Set the tone controls on the amplifier to their centre (level) position first.
I love it when a plan comes together.
It is hard to believe how poor the TV speaker system is until you hook up something better.
I'm just using these little JBLs on mine at the moment but still the improvement is shocking:
https://i.ibb.co/Nxggc2F/20200711-092139-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/5TXXbh1)
With big Tannoys deployed I can imagine how fabulous it must be.
Sound quality on a lot of TV channels is pretty good but it does tend to vary and the adverts seem to have the best quality. :(
If you have the Sky Arts channel it's worth looking to see what concerts they are broadcasting, there's popular and classical and the sound quality is excellent.
Remember hooking up my little Shan shimna concrete speakers for tv listening once and frit the shit out of the mother in law ! Improvement is indeed shocking and a treat to the lugs.
Good work David
I love it when a plan comes together.
It is hard to believe how poor the TV speaker system is until you hook up something better.
I'm just using these little JBLs on mine at the moment but still the improvement is shocking:
https://i.ibb.co/Nxggc2F/20200711-092139-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/5TXXbh1)
With big Tannoys deployed I can imagine how fabulous it must be.
Sound quality on a lot of TV channels is pretty good but it does tend to vary and the adverts seem to have the best quality. :(
If you have the Sky Arts channel it's worth looking to see what concerts they are broadcasting, there's popular and classical and the sound quality is excellent.
Unless I am in a world of dystopia after my latest speaker acquisitions, a point is reached at which broadcast sound quality becomes fairly unbearable, especially on speech, which is very much a secondary consideration on TV.
I agree that adverts have a better SQ, with on mic speech.
Well done David,
I've been using separate speakers and amplifier with my TV for about fifteen years now. At the beginning I used a pair of small Eltax speakers with a Quad 33/303 amplifier, then replaced them with a pair of Bowers & Wilkins DM2A speakers and a Quad 520 amplifier.
The improvement in sound quality is significant when watching films and DVDs, but I agree with others regarding the SQ of adverts: the volume is louder and too intrusive, so I hit the 'silence' button on the remote during the commercial breaks.
Well done David,
I've been using separate speakers and amplifier with my TV for about fifteen years now. At the beginning I used a pair of small Eltax speakers with a Quad 33/303 amplifier, then replaced them with a pair of Bowers & Wilkins DM2A speakers and a Quad 520 amplifier.
The improvement in sound quality is significant when watching films and DVDs, but I agree with others regarding the SQ of adverts: the volume is louder and too intrusive, so I hit the 'silence' button on the remote during the commercial breaks.
Yes well done David.....
Barry like you i have enjoyed amps & speakers rather than sound through the TV but only for 6 years or so ...and yes adverts are a problem its to do with them compressing the sound ...this is what started with the ads and then migrated into Digital music ..cds etc ..i think
Yes, ads are just broadcast at a higher level. There is a legal limit as to how much louder the ads are allowed to be compared to the programmes. I recall Channel 4 being fined for having their ads too loud, that was many years ago now.
Still seems to be a common problem though:
https://conversation.which.co.uk/technology/loud-tv-television-ad-advertisements-commercial/
SQ on the ads is better because they have a much higher budget for sound recording than the programmes do.
The opposite problem for films on some channels, the dynamic range is quite high so you have to wind the volume right up to hear quiet dialogue, then when action starts it blows your head off.
Okay so that is supposed to be how it is but I do worry about disturbing the neighbour if watching an action film late at night.
walpurgis
01-10-2020, 11:30
There should be a levy on commercial TV to fund advert free channels. Maybe something like this exists already, if it does, it's not working.
The whole thing is on its last legs anyway. Nobody under 40 watches live to air tv anymore. It's only us oldies which is why all the ads are for funeral plans and all the programmes are about the War.
Give it 20 more years and it won't even exist. Amazon, Netflix etc will have replaced it completely.
I have a simple system. Go through the listing for the day and tape any programs about the War that a) look interesting and b) you've not seen before.
Then go to recorded shows and watch the stuff you taped yesterday, fast forwarding through all the funeral plan ads.
No muss, no fuss.
That is what I do also, I look for the 'meaty' stuff and am building a library so that re-watching the dense stuff educates.
The whole thing is on its last legs anyway. Nobody under 40 watches live to air tv anymore. It's only us oldies which is why all the ads are for funeral plans and all the programmes are about the War.
Give it 20 more years and it won't even exist. Amazon, Netflix etc will have replaced it completely.
Someone needs to tell the BBC. Shoving people out to cater for the Yoof who don't watch mainstream tele. Also: Why does any channel have to have continuity announcers?
Someone needs to tell the BBC. Shoving people out to cater for the Yoof who don't watch mainstream tele. Also: Why does any channel have to have continuity announcers?
The one on ITV4 is just a recording.
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