View Full Version : Garrard 401 and Neat tonearm project
After being suitably inspired by the forum I've dragged out an old turntable from the loft. Bought in the 80's it has been moved from loft to loft, and nearly ended up at the tip at one point. The motor unit dates from 1974 and I have the original mat but it's still in the loft somewhere. Here it is pretty much as I bought it apart from the mat and the Neat headshell that had a Shure cartridge in it that was put on a workhorse record player years ago and that probably did end up in the tip. The picture shows a cheap headshell that I bought the other day - my first aim is to get it functional and then play around with it a bit.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50061858796_00a839a736_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jgN7uu)IMG_20200626_161202293_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2jgN7uu) by stax8 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88030672@N06/), on Flickr
More to follow...
walpurgis
30-06-2020, 15:15
The 401 and Neat arm would certainly work together, but I'd suggest a better arm personally, the 401 deserves it. The Neat was the second cheapest tonearm on the market in the early seventies, whereas the Garrard was often paired with the far more upmarket SME for instance. Should make a nice project.
Here's the plinth that I'll use. Each layer looks like two 18mm pieces of plywood glued together and these are spaced and held together with bolts the likes of whch I've not seen. I plan to use squash balls instead.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50062047031_b75a599b5a_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jgP5rV)Plinth (https://flic.kr/p/2jgP5rV) by stax8 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88030672@N06/), on Flickr
Thanks Geoff, I've been looking at SME arms (or a Mission 774) but I'd like to get this one working first. Part of the attraction is learning more about the mechanics and that arm has a fairly unusual anti skate mechanism (with a missing weight) that I'd like to fiddle with.
... and I like the way it looks - call me shallow :)
walpurgis
30-06-2020, 15:33
Looks like you're missing the plastic armrest top too. You may find the Technics SL-1200/SL-1210 item will fit and it's cheap. The falling weight bias mech is not an uncommon arrangement, no doubt a suitable replacement for the lost item can be sourced.
Blimey, do you have access to my search history Geoff :) Yes, that was lost too so I have one of those Technics ones on order!
I've been looking for a weight for a few days and the only thing readily available is something described as a wire clamp (something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1Pc-Stainless-Steel-Wire-Rope-90-Cross-Slotted-Cross-Buckle-Clip-Clamp-YU/333621683018?hash=item4dad66e34a:g:vwsAAOSwsIBdThH A) but perhaps I'm not looking in the right places. The rod has a diameter of 2mm.
Thanks again!
Wakefield Turntables
30-06-2020, 18:57
Good luck with the resto Steve.
Hi Steve,
Nice project you have there. Regarding the arm rest/clamp what you need is something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pioneer-PL-12D-Tonearm-Rest/143538091531?hash=item216b89760b:g:OJ8AAOSwyKZeT6l I, or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pioneer-PL-12D-Turntable-Tonearm-Rest/324209469884?hash=item4b7c63e9bc:g:4ngAAOSw55JerXb y.
A replacement 'falling weight' for the anti-skating device could be easily made by anyone with a small lathe. One of our trade members here could do it for you.
My 301 came with the Neat arm which I sold to help fund the restoration, I may have some better photos of the arm if required.
https://i.imgur.com/702SkXQ.jpg
Works well with a Jelco arm
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49350355438_1dcd200b45_c.jpg
Audio Al
01-07-2020, 03:31
Used Jelco arm here
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/jelco-750d-squeezebox-touch-topping-d50-dac-headshells.242375/#post-4034019
Hello all, as with any project, to avoid mission creep I’ve set myself some terms of reference.
End goal
I really enjoyed Andrew’s restoration project, apart from the undoubted quality of the result I think it’s a public service to rescue something like that. That aside my end goal comes from that thread – spending a few hours, maybe on a Sunday, listening to a few records (I don’t have many and have no real plans to buy many more). I’d love to hear Karen Carpenter’s voice and Dusty in Memphis on this.
I don’t think that warrants much monetary expenditure and I don’t want to fall into the rabbit hole of an analogue quest. I’m really glad some people do though and I’ve enjoyed looking at the pictures of members’ systems here (that’s a tasteful set up Roy and thanks for the steer Alex) and reading comments on different combinations.
Sound quality
This isn’t too much of a concern because it’s in the eye (ear) of the beholder, in their room, with their music and their mood, memories… etc. but hopefully without their high tone deafness in one ear from using guns n’ things. My ‘main’ system has Linkwitz LXmini speakers plus sealed box subs fed by a PiDac or Chromecast Audio through a DCB1 mesmerize buffer to an AV amp with six channels. The upgrade path for this is limited – the amp is functional, but the LX vogue seems to be for Hypex or Modulus amps – maybe one day. I think one of the beauties of the active design is that the characteristics of the amp are less critical.
Reviews on the net describe the sound of those speakers as spatial and accurate and I like that… but… in the living room I have some Rogers JR149’s (leather topped!) fed by a Nad 3020 which sounds like a 70’s/80’s hifi playing music (strangely enough :rolleyes:) fairly cleanly, rather than a concert hall. And I like that too, just as much!
I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the project is mainly nostalgic and aesthetic and involves putting some well made bits together with a bit of experimentation.
Thanks Barry, I'm looking forward to putting it all together. I already have the post for the arm rest and I think the Lenco one on ebay is more like the original. In the meantime I've cuffed this...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50064973671_0a425aface_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jh55re)Arm rest (https://flic.kr/p/2jh55re) by stax8 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88030672@N06/), on Flickr
No prizes for guessing what I stuck on top of the post. I did trim it a bit so that I wouldn't bend the arm getting it out!
Martin, that looks like the one. The only picture I have of one from the net is this one I copied from an ebay sale years ago...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50061589383_6b674f50ac_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jgLJpr)Annotation 2020-06-28 172419 (https://flic.kr/p/2jgLJpr) by stax8 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88030672@N06/), on Flickr
If you have any other pictures that would be great, particularly the anti skate bit... and a link to your restored 301 (please).
Thanks again Barry, it's good to know that I might be able to get hold of a decent looking weight. It looks like the anti skate mechanism will apply a non-linear force to the arm which I gather is a good idea in general because the force pushing the stylus in is non linear but how that works in practice remains to be seen. The arm looks a bugger to set up!
walpurgis
01-07-2020, 12:57
An ebay seller is offering a Connoisseur fit bias weight that looks very much like it may do the job: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/williams-sonics-UPGRADE-BIAS-WEIGHT-for-SUGDEN-CONNOISSEUR-SAU-2-TONEARM-BD1-BD2/324205783563?hash=item4b7c2baa0b:g:-VsAAOSwijle42da
Steve, I will see if I can find the photos of the Neat arm, if they aren't on the computer it may take a couple of days to find the correct drive, I doubt I would have deleted them completely.
Here's an old picture of my restored 301, I really should take some new better ones, 301 serviced and resprayed by Ray at CTC, plinth is from Russ Collinson/Layers Of Beauty, arm is a SME M2-12R, cart is a Miyajima Zero A supplied by Hugo, I do have a couple of 401s I intend getting up to a similar level, but those plans have been set back a year or two.
https://i.imgur.com/6jAXuTU.jpg
I think the challenges are as follows:
Motor unit - this seems to be the easy bit, the idler wheel is 'rubbery' with no flat spots and there's no play in its bearing. I recall checking the thrust pad and housing when I looked at it years ago and there didn't seem to be any wear on that compared with pictures from the net. The springs aren't shiny but they are springy so I doubt whether I'll change them unless anybody thinks otherwise - I'm far from an expert. I suspect what grommets there are would need changing plus the felt pad on the main bearing and I'll rewire the whole unit. Any suggestions for other things to check would be great. The main issue with it seems to be the lack of use.
Plinth - I picked this up cheap and I did't really know what its purpose was. At first I thought it was some kind of storage or transport protection but it's clearly not. The two sections of ply were clamped by these mahoosive bolt arrangements.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50065355782_1f3418384f_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jh732m)2020-07-01_02-11-49 (https://flic.kr/p/2jh732m) by stax8 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88030672@N06/), on Flickr
They certainly give the plinth some heft and stability but even though I like functional (even industrial - or in this case agricultural!) design I don't like the bolts protruding at the top so I have some squash balls ready. The challenge there will be to trap them securely and evenly - I thought I'd use thick steel square washers with about a 15mm hole to ensure uniformity. Any suggestions welcome...
If I stick with balls then I'll need to cover those holes so I was thinking of a plate of thinnish black acrylic covering the whole thing apart from an armboard which could be a rectangle of acrylic about the thickness of the Garrard top plate. Mind you, I like the idea of veneer instead for the main plinth deck.
Tonearm - I think this could be a challenge. I'll need the falling weight and the wires may need replacing (I haven't done a continuity test yet but they look tired). I've had a look around the net but can't seem to find any information on removing the cartridge connector from the arm tube. Any ideas??
Thanks Martin there's no rush for the pictures - this 'project' has waited over 35 years! That's another lovely set-up. I... must... not... be... tempted. Get thee behind me Satan!
And thanks again Geoff, why couldn't I find that! It does look like it would do the job. He says in the description that he can make a smaller one (for the same arm) as well so I think I should do some research on that type of mechanism, what cartridge I plan to use etc....
walpurgis
01-07-2020, 13:41
Scanned from my 1971 G W Smith catalogue. May be of interest.
https://i.imgur.com/3YMEo2M.png?1
Steve, I just waded through my old Turbolister files, I found the ebay listing for when I sold my arm, but can't copy the photos, however I now know the month and year I took the photos so an easy search, also if I still have them there is a nice close up of the arm rest and a couple of poor photos of the complete arm, I'll see what I can find.
Ok Martin, as I say, there's really no rush. I'll wait out. Much appreciated whenever it's convenient.
That's really interesting Geoff. Mine isn't a G30, there's one here https://audio-andromeda.blogspot.com/2014/06/neat-g-30.html BUT it tells me that whatever it is the bias mechanism is likely to be an optional extra, and therefore removable if I tie myself in knots with it :scratch:
Not great pics, but hopefully of some use.
https://i.imgur.com/SGbN8dr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UUEG1fK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TbOHJ0L.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gsuxlMf.jpg
I searched high and low and couldn't find any specifics on this model, it's not a G30 or G36.
Me too!
Really useful pictures thank you. My cable clip improvisation isn't too far off after all, I trimmed it so that it just 'catches' the arm - same principle. The G30 instructions are useful if the bias mechanism is a cross-range thing - there's some instructions on how to set it (assuming I use the same weight or same weight weight) and assuming I can find the dots it refers to, I'll need to get it in a better light.
Blimey I've made more progress in a few hours here than during all those years! :)
Well, after waffling on about mission creep I remembered that I have a really nice piece of green Kirkstone slate in the garden so I've asked a fella that I know for a quote for cutting it. Just waiting now.
In the meantime, if I do that then I apreciate that the deck warrants a better arm so in order to make it future proof in case I get hit by a bus (more likely pushed under one) I think the slate would benefit from one of these circular adjustable armboards https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?60227-Sony-TTS-8000-Turntable&p=1202552#post1202552 (what a great thread that is).
I've seen them before but I had a search around and can't find much information about them - more particularly the underside and how it's fixed and then adjusted. Can anybody help? Thanks in anticipation.
hi steve,thats my armboard,its not adjustable although it may look that way.
Hi Jamie, it is indeed! That's a great project on lots of levels, I've toyed with the idea of French polishing the table of one of my guitars so seeing that finish being built up was really nice. The ebony binding just about demoralised me for my project though! But... any reason why you didn't put some ebony (or a black marker pen) separating the veneer sheets :lol:
I had a notion that those boards rotated but I suppose it's a case of a new ebony/aluminium/acrylic disk cut each time.
Wakefield Turntables
24-07-2020, 19:17
It's been a while since we've heard any news Steve, how's the resto going?
Hello Andrew, it's been far too long and I've only just revisited the site. I had a quote of £200 minimum to cut the Kirkstone slate and I was considering that but then spoke to a monument mason friend who said he'd do it.
After that I got a bit stuck on how to 'allow' for the armboard on the slate... it'll obviously need a cut out of some sort for the arm base and wires and I could mark that out for the Neat no problem but I agree that the deck could do with a better arm so I looked into a more future proof cut out. Once the slate is cut, it's cut! Anyway... as I was vacillating on this it was pushed way back on the to do list by other 'stuff'.
I'll hopefully get the stone cut soon so any ideas on the dimensions for a general purpose cut out would be great. The plan is to sit a wood or acrylic board on top of the slate.
By the way, the chrome on the tonearm came up a treat when rubbed with aluminium foil dipped in salt water.
Wakefield Turntables
06-12-2020, 09:43
Steve,
i'd completely forgot about this thread. My ears pricked up when a saw 401 restoration projections in the list of updated threads!! Anyway. Just an idea, why don't you get speedy Steve to make you one of his arm pods? I'd then simply cut a circular hole into the plinth to house the tonearm pod. You'll then have a truly decoupled tonearm. It's one of the design features I miss with my 401 plinth, but my plinth does have a decoupled motor, so I suppose it's horses for courses!! Good lucka and don't give in now!
Take care.
A
PS Never even heard of the tip about salt water and Al, must give it a spin sometime.
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