Newbie.....needs lots of advice and help!

[marley]

Good afternoon all,

Im obviosly a newbie on here, Im no spring chicken! Recently retired at age 60...Back in the day. (70s/80s) I was really into listening to music.. all sorts, particularly reggae! Back then, I bought what I thought was pretty decent stereo gear........Alas! that was then..this is now!! Ive no real idea on what to buy!!

I will be listening to mainly, records, also C.D. of course, I dont do much ( well NONE! streaming etc, my daughter does though)......

Id "like", to spen up to about £1,000 on the system, of course this isnt rigid......but! From what little Ive looked at online...this is a rabbit hole Im going to enter... lol! Ive so far bought Bower and Wilkins CM1 speakers, (they should be with me early next week)...they are of course second, I paid £280 for them? Good deal or bad deal?!!

Ive been advised (though not on hi-fi forums! it was on a watch forum!) that Rega are decent turntables? NAD, or Marantz etc are good amps? Ive no real idea to be honest! of what to look for in an amp. (all I "think I know"! is that it will need phono on it to play records!?).

I have no problem buying second hand, as will probably get a good deal that way...SO!! IF! it ws your £7-800 ish...what would you get in the way of an amp, and a player, oh C.D. too?

Whilst looking online, Im bewildered by what I see! I have seem amps. with "radios!" (hey Im 60!!! or are they called receivers these days?!) on them, some with some without, some with C.D. players in them some without.........I really need phono, and C.D. play facilities, I " assume", if I was to get an old/vintage amp. they wouldnt be able to get D.A.B. even if I was to buy a D.A.B. receiver..(even if such a thing exists?!).

I appreciate, these questions Im asking, may well seem really basic and stupid to you on here! In my defence though...Ive not bought a stereo for..almost 30 years now!!

All advice and info will be gratefully received!

Thanks in advance!

[StingRay]

Welcome to the forum.

You really need to hear the map and speakers together, so I suggest some demos when shops are open again. the CM1s are not very sensitive, ie need a bit of power. NAD and Marantz amps are OK but not sure NAD and CM1s are a good match but a lot is down to taste, Rotel amps are often said to be agood match for B&W. Second hand is the way to go on your budget. Rega TTs are OK but the budget ones I don't really rate, Project maybe an alternative. Or used, you can get a Thorens 160 for around £200 now. CD players are cheap now, you can get a decent used one for around £100 or less, have a look at Marantz, Pioneer, Rotel. Phono you can get a Cambridge for about £50, or Rega or Project. Do you have any second hand HiFi shops around you?

Why did you pick the CM1s?

[marley]

Welcome to the forum.

You really need to hear the map and speakers together, so I suggest some demos when shops are open again. the CM1s are not very sensitive, ie need a bit of power. NAD and Marantz amps are OK but not sure NAD and CM1s are a good match but a lot is down to taste, Rotel amps are often said to be agood match for B&W. Second hand is the way to go on your budget. Rega TTs are OK but the budget ones I don't really rate, Project maybe an alternative. Or used, you can get a Thorens 160 for around £200 now. CD players are cheap now, you can get a decent used one for around £100 or less, have a look at Marantz, Pioneer, Rotel. Phono you can get a Cambridge for about £50, or Rega or Project. Do you have any second hand HiFi shops around you?

Why did you pick the CM1s?

Thanks for that..

I asked on another , non hi-fi forum, for some suggestions, a fair few people suggested CM1......So I went ahead and got some!

Im in Wales, the non essentila shops, only opened last week, also technically, we arent supposed to travel more than 5 miles to go shopping (or anywhere! really) that finishes next week though...so will be able to have a look then.

Ive also seen Thorens being recommended...As for a rega turntable, they were recommended, hence why I mentioned them! As I say though, I was asking for info. on a watch forum...!

SO, basically, what I call an amp. if it doesnt have the function for phono I assume that means I cant play records with it? Or do you mean by a phono for about £50 from Cambridge, that can just be plugged into an amp?! (sorry...I told you Im a complete newbie!! lol!).

Ive no problem at all, with buying used either...just want to get myself something, "half decent"! which I can listen to!

Many thanks.

[StingRay]

Thanks for that..

I asked on another , non hi-fi forum, for some suggestions, a fair few people suggested CM1......So I went ahead and got some!

Im in Wales, the non essentila shops, only opened last week, also technically, we arent supposed to travel more than 5 miles to go shopping (or anywhere! really) that finishes next week though...so will be able to have a look then.

Ive also seen Thorens being recommended...As for a rega turntable, they were recommended, hence why I mentioned them! As I say though, I was asking for info. on a watch forum...!

SO, basically, what I call an amp. if it doesnt have the function for phono I assume that means I cant play records with it? Or do you mean by a phono for about £50 from Cambridge, that can just be plugged into an amp?! (sorry...I told you Im a complete newbie!! lol!).

Ive no problem at all, with buying used either...just want to get myself something, "half decent"! which I can listen to!

Many thanks.

Do not rush, take your time. I would not just go on recommendations on non Hifi forums. Maybe someone on here can recommend a system to go with your CM1s. If you are able to push the budget up a bit you should get a far better system. Rega make some Turntables but I would not buy their budget one. Yes phono-amp goes between the turntable and the amp if your amp. does not have a phono stage. Problem with buying used is hearing them before buying. Hifi forums can be a good place to buy used but there is a limited choice.

[hifi_dave]

Within your budget, I would suggest the Rega P1, which comes with cartridge fitted and the new Rega Io amplifier, which has an excellent internal MM phono stage.

[walpurgis]

I also think Rega would be a good choice, but I'd buy used and save money. Shop wisely and you should find a suitable turntable, CD player and amplifier from Rega that will work with the B&W speakers OK and leave some change for decent cables etc.

[marley]

Many thanks for the replies....certainly plenty to think about...

As I say, Ive no problems with buying used.

The original £1,000 budget, that can of course be upped a bit as well!

[hifi_dave]

If you want trouble free and good value, stick with Rega.

If you want to spend more, go for the Rega P2 with Io or Brio.

[walpurgis]

Don't forget to budget for some sturdy stands for your B&Ws. Small, rear ported speakers usually need them and tend not to work well on shelves.

[StingRay]

If I was starting again, I would buy used, far better value, there is loads of stuff even nearly new around half price. Yes you will need stands which you can get for around £20 used or £50 new. If you lived nearer you could have had mine.

[marley]

If you want trouble free and good value, stick with Rega.

If you want to spend more, go for the Rega P2 with Io or Brio.

Thanks for that...I was looking at rega 1 and 2...there is also a Rega P1 Plus? ...is that any/much better than the P1...or is it worth the not so much extra , I guess is what Im asking!

[marley]

Don't forget to budget for some sturdy stands for your B&Ws. Small, rear ported speakers usually need them and tend not to work well on shelves.


If I was starting again, I would buy used, far better value, there is loads of stuff even nearly new around half price. Yes you will need stands which you can get for around £20 used or £50 new. If you lived nearer you could have had mine.

Thanks for that both.....they will be added , so my budget can be upped accordingly! Lol!

[hifi_dave]

Thanks for that...I was looking at rega 1 and 2...there is also a Rega P1 Plus? ...is that any/much better than the P1...or is it worth the not so much extra , I guess is what Im asking!

The P1 is excellent but if you can afford a P2 go for that rather than the plus.

[AJSki2fly]

Not sure you will find one at a sensible price but these are pretty good, Sansui A517, http://listeninn.com/Website/Used-Integrated-Amplifier/Sansui-AU-517-Info.htm, they are supposed to be pretty robust and sound good. Should drive your BW's I think.

Others on AoS may know of an A517 that's available and good.

[marley]

Thanks again for all your replies..

Apologies to , for so many questions!

Ive been looking at e-bay etc...I was looking at an 18 month old Audiolab 6000A..........I "think" it must have been mentioned in a thread I made on a watch forum...

Its up for sale at about £450..........ish.....I think maybe its a bit more than what I was looking to pay, but Im really clueless to be honest!!

Are these any good, or maybe its better for me to go "older"?

Again! Sorry for all the questions!

[AJSki2fly]

Not sure you will find one at a sensible price but these are pretty good, Sansui A517, http://listeninn.com/Website/Used-Integrated-Amplifier/Sansui-AU-517-Info.htm, they are supposed to be pretty robust and sound good. Should drive your BW's I think.

Others on AoS may know of an A517 that's available and good.

Just remember this that Audio Al had up for sale, they have a good reputation, just find a nice pre-amp and you would be set up, PM Al and see if he still has it https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?69314-Akai-PA-W04-power-amplifier-for-sale

[marley]

Just remember this that Audio Al had up for sale, they have a good reputation, just find a nice pre-amp and you would be set up, PM Al and see if he still has it https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?69314-Akai-PA-W04-power-amplifier-for-sale

Thanks for that...

Im getting more confused now though! It seems really cheap, I must admit...Ive no idea what a pre-amp is!! I assume I just plug the pre-amp into the above or vice versa? Then its ready to go?!

Sorry...I really am not up to all this technology! lol........still its good to learn it all!

[struth]

think they are maybe talking about a phono preamp. ie for a turntable

[walpurgis]

Daney is looking for uncomplicated options, so probably best to stick with an integrated amplifier with built-in MM phono stage.

[marley]

Daney is looking for uncomplicated options, so probably best to stick with an integrated amplifier with built-in MM phono stage.

I am really looking for something which is as uncomplicated as possible yes!.

So it looks like an integrated amp. is what I need...Ive seen on another forum a turntable

"linn axis turn table with audio technica at440mla cartridge not had much use £300"...would this be suitable...or would I be better off looking for a Vega turntable?

I cant seem to find many second hand Vega planar tt for sale....looking about a P1 ia £200 ish, and the planar 2 for double that.....So Im still undecided/unsure......I guess though, it depends on what type of amp. (and the cost of it!) as to which turntable I get...as has been said, a C.D. player I assume isnt that "important".. (I mean regarding spec. price etc?).

Oh yes!! then there is the tuner....it sure is a rabbit hole isnt it! lol!

[walpurgis]

A Linn Axis turntable is an old product now and electrically more complex than some. It's not unknown for them to be troublesome. You can get a simple, reliable and perfectly decent Rega turntable for that money or less.

I think you'll have less issues if you just stick to all Rega items. They sound fine for the money and are compatible with each other.

[marley]

A Linn Axis turntable is an old product now and electrically more complex than some. It's not unknown for them to be troublesome. You can get a simple, reliable and perfectly decent Rega turntable for that money or less.

I think you'll have less issues if you just stick to all Rega items. They sound fine for the money and are compatible with each other.

Rega is certainly leading the race for me this far!

[Macca]

I'd get a subwoofer to go with those B&W speakers as they don't have any bass and will sound quite toppy

https://hometheaterreview.com/bowers-wilkins-cm1-s2-bookshelf-speaker-reviewed/ -

acceptable and inexpensive subs here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=bk%20subwoofers&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-55005-18975-0&mkcid=2&keyword=bk%20subwoofers&crlp=_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-81295250530856:loc-188&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=131781&poi=&abcId=&cmpgn=352749718&sitelnk=&adgroupid=1300722441653461&network=o&matchtype=e&msclkid=f755bda949b01d076e13e352db26f219

Two subs is a lot better than one if you can run to it.

Get some stands for the speakers, you want ear height to be just between the mid and tweeter drivers so measure it and buy appropriately tall stands. Sounds trivial but it does matter.

The speakers have very low sensitivity but the sub(s) will help a lot. Even so, if you want to really crank the levels up and have the sound stay clean you'll need at least 100 watts per channel, unless the room is very small

Otherwise something like this NAD C320BEE would do the job and be a good match. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAD-Stereo-Amplifier-C-320BEE-Excellent-condition-in-original-box-and-packaging/303608578681?hash=item46b07b4279:g:wxYAAOSw6Qde-PTR

although I'm sure a Rega amp would be fine I'm not convinced it is worth the premium you pay.

CD - I'd go for this Sony https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Audio-CD-Player-Sony-SCD-XB940-gewartet-1-Jahr-Garantie/153939553908?hash=item23d7832e74:g:Or8AAOSw0YxexAU k very smooth but detailed sound, will take the edge of the B&Ws, should all balance out well.

[marley]

I'd get a subwoofer to go with those B&W speakers as they don't have any bass and will sound quite toppy

https://hometheaterreview.com/bowers-wilkins-cm1-s2-bookshelf-speaker-reviewed/ -

acceptable and inexpensive subs here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=bk%20subwoofers&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-55005-18975-0&mkcid=2&keyword=bk%20subwoofers&crlp=_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=kwd-81295250530856:loc-188&adpos=&device=c&mktype=&loc=131781&poi=&abcId=&cmpgn=352749718&sitelnk=&adgroupid=1300722441653461&network=o&matchtype=e&msclkid=f755bda949b01d076e13e352db26f219

Two subs is a lot better than one if you can run to it.

Get some stands for the speakers, you want ear height to be just between the mid and tweeter drivers so measure it and buy appropriately tall stands. Sounds trivial but it does matter.

The speakers have very low sensitivity but the sub(s) will help a lot. Even so, if you want to really crank the levels up and have the sound stay clean you'll need at least 100 watts per channel, unless the room is very small

Otherwise something like this NAD C320BEE would do the job and be a good match. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAD-Stereo-Amplifier-C-320BEE-Excellent-condition-in-original-box-and-packaging/303608578681?hash=item46b07b4279:g:wxYAAOSw6Qde-PTR

although I'm sure a Rega amp would be fine I'm not convinced it is worth the premium you pay.

CD - I'd go for this Sony https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Audio-CD-Player-Sony-SCD-XB940-gewartet-1-Jahr-Garantie/153939553908?hash=item23d7832e74:g:Or8AAOSw0YxexAU k very smooth but detailed sound, will take the edge of the B&Ws, should all balance out well.



Many thanks for that..very helpful...it also helps (me!) a lot as I can actually see specific bits of kit.

Cheers!

[marley]

That NAD amp. doesnt have a phono? If I was to get one of those, Id have to get something else to plug into it, to enable me to use a record deck? Is that how it works?!

Sorry if its a daft question!

[Macca]

That NAD amp. doesnt have a phono? If I was to get one of those, Id have to get something else to plug into it, to enable me to use a record deck? Is that how it works?!

Sorry if its a daft question!

Yes you would need to get a sperate phono stage with that one. There's lots of them on the used market though.

[walpurgis]

Yes you would need to get a sperate phono stage with that one. There's lots of them on the used market though.

Not all of which are equal. Far from it actually.

And it gets even more complex if MC (moving coil) cartridges are thrown into the equation instead of MMs, although we won't be going there at the moment.

[Macca]

Not all of which are equal. Far from it actually.

And it gets even more complex if MC (moving coil) cartridges are thrown into the equation instead of MMs, although we won't be going there at the moment.

I never said they were! But a few clunkers aside they'll be better than what's bundled in with a budget amplifier. Just having their own separate power feed is a big help to that.

[Macca]

Project one here, as new in the box 80 squid https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-ject-Phono-box-stage-MM-MC-Boxed-Original-packaging/184346983360?hash=item2aebefbbc0%3Ag%3AyvoAAOSwEh1 e-uq-&LH_BIN=1

not the best thing ever but fine for a budget deck with a budget cartridge. I used one for years and my neighbour has it now with his Rega Planar 3 and it does nothing wrong.

[Gazjam]

Some great advice here as always.

If vinyl is your thing go for the best Rega in your budget, more bang for buck 2nd hand.
Look to Rega P2/P3 complete with arm and cart from a hifi enthusiast, rather than the modern interpretation of the same Deck brand new from a Dealer at higher price.

Scrimp, save and temporarily live on toast n beans for 6 months if you can for a recent 2nd hand Rega Planar 3 if you can.
Put a fair chunk of your budget to what actually gets the music off the vinyl record.

Digital...not so much, can spend buttons to get "good", but it ain't great.
Digital can be ear blisteringly good, but not at budget prices imo.

But vinyl will reward you.
You don't need to spend megabucks...but get it right and you're there.

And that's what Rega will.do for you.
My take...2nd hand Rega 3 from a fellow enthusiast upgrading.

[marley]

Sorry its the newbie again...asking more dumb questions!!

Before I started asking questions, and looking online etc...i had just "assumed", that the most "important/expensive" item , I would need to buy, would be the amp.? It seems the turntable , is very important/expensive...ish! too?

OK , So rega turntables , seem to be the one to go for...looking online, there isnt much second hand rega stuff about...looking last night, I can get a new Planar 2 for £399 a new planar 1 for £239......ive only seen one "Rega Planar 3 Classic Turntable in Black with RB300 Tonearm" obviously used, for £340 posted..............I think. I know the answer about the planar 1.......so will discount tha anyway!

Am I best of waiting to see if I can find a better deal on a used planar 3...or look at getting a new planar 2?

Its all subjective , I know, at the end of the day...its my money, so its up to me! lol!...

This is getting more and more of a rabbit hole though!! Then there is the amp..(and cd player etc etc!!)

Thanks for all your advice...(AND! your patience thus far!)!!.

[walpurgis]

Put a 'wanted' advert in the forum Private Exhibitions section. I'd be surprised if there isn't a Rega turntable available at a good price.

The same applies to any other bits you may want.

[Macca]

A turntable is mechanical engineering and good mechanical engineering doesn't come cheap - so really good turntables do tend to be quite expensive relative to, say, a really good cd player.

Although obviously you can spend a fortune on a cd player or other digital system if you want to, but as long as the rest of the system has been put together with some care and attention even a budget digital source will give acceptable sound quality with all types of music. This is not true of turntables.

It depends on your level of expectation. The Planar One will be fine if you just want to listen to your records and enjoy them. It's a competent design. However if you were to hear it compared back to back with a more sophisticated unit only then you would realise what you were missing. It all comes down to what level you are happy with and what you are prepared to spend.

usually how it works is we start off with the budget equipment and over time we swap it out for more expensive, better performing equipment until, maybe decades later, we end up with what is usually referred to as 'high end' sound. Those with lots of money to chuck at it can dive straight in at that level of course, but that isn't most of us.

If you are going to put together a system on a tight budget, buying second hand items, you can potentially get a very good set up for the minimum of cost. But it's unusual to get this exactly right first time. Be prepared to put things back up for sale and have a punt on something else with the proceeds. It's trial and error. Some people enjoy this process and you can learn a lot.

The alternative is to pay a premium and go to a dealer like Hi-fi Dave and get a full system from him which he knows will work well and which is likely to satisfy you straight out of the gate. A bit more expensive, yes, a lot less hassle also. But then one man's hassle is another man's fun and learning experience. So you have to decide where you want to be with that. Either route is valid.

[walpurgis]

A bit of advice. If you have a turntable shipped to you, make sure it's going to be very, very carefully and robustly packaged. Never have one sent with the main platter still fitted, it should be wrapped separately and placed beneath the plinth. And the plastic lid needs very strong support and protection, possibly even best shipped separately. There are no end of horror stories about decks wrecked in transit. It's happened to me! (got a refund though :))

[marley]

Put a 'wanted' advert in the forum Private Exhibitions section. I'd be surprised if there isn't a Rega turntable available at a good price.

The same applies to any other bits you may want.
Doh!!! Why didnt I think of that!....just placed an ad.

A turntable is mechanical engineering and good mechanical engineering doesn't come cheap - so really good turntables do tend to be quite expensive relative to, say, a really good cd player.

Although obviously you can spend a fortune on a cd player or other digital system if you want to, but as long as the rest of the system has been put together with some care and attention even a budget digital source will give acceptable sound quality with all types of music. This is not true of turntables.

It depends on your level of expectation. The Planar One will be fine if you just want to listen to your records and enjoy them. It's a competent design. However if you were to hear it compared back to back with a more sophisticated unit only then you would realise what you were missing. It all comes down to what level you are happy with and what you are prepared to spend.

usually how it works is we start off with the budget equipment and over time we swap it out for more expensive, better performing equipment until, maybe decades later, we end up with what is usually referred to as 'high end' sound. Those with lots of money to chuck at it can dive straight in at that level of course, but that isn't most of us.

If you are going to put together a system on a tight budget, buying second hand items, you can potentially get a very good set up for the minimum of cost. But it's unusual to get this exactly right first time. Be prepared to put things back up for sale and have a punt on something else with the proceeds. It's trial and error. Some people enjoy this process and you can learn a lot.

The alternative is to pay a premium and go to a dealer like Hi-fi Dave and get a full system from him which he knows will work well and which is likely to satisfy you straight out of the gate. A bit more expensive, yes, a lot less hassle also. But then one man's hassle is another man's fun and learning experience. So you have to decide where you want to be with that. Either route is valid.
Thanks for that.......seems like a lot of sense to me.

[AJSki2fly]

I am really looking for something which is as uncomplicated as possible yes!.

So it looks like an integrated amp. is what I need...Ive seen on another forum a turntable

"linn axis turn table with audio technica at440mla cartridge not had much use £300"...would this be suitable...or would I be better off looking for a Vega turntable?

I cant seem to find many second hand Vega planar tt for sale....looking about a P1 ia £200 ish, and the planar 2 for double that.....So Im still undecided/unsure......I guess though, it depends on what type of amp. (and the cost of it!) as to which turntable I get...as has been said, a C.D. player I assume isnt that "important".. (I mean regarding spec. price etc?).

Oh yes!! then there is the tuner....it sure is a rabbit hole isnt it! lol!

Not too far from you https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Rega-Planar-2-Turntable-Record-Player-Vinyl-Adapter-and-Belts/363021641373?hash=item5485c6a69d%3Ag%3AazwAAOSw2Rd eE3Sh&LH_BIN=1 it need a new lid and need to check it works and cartridge is OK or not.

Rega Planar lid https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-Rega-Planar-dust-cover-clear-lid/224033761485?hash=item342973e8cd:g:LKgAAOSwb5lef1L Y

Could bid on this one and buy a new cartridge https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rega-Planar-2-Turntable/153986874678?epid=6034598866&hash=item23da553d36:g:S8kAAOSwfPFe-OaS check he has original packaging or will be VERY CAREFULY package and double boxed. Then buy a new Cartridge like and Audio Technica or Ortofon
others can advise what works best with the arm/turntable