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Macca
28-06-2020, 10:20
I was looking for a DAC to improve the sound quality from my Oppo BDT1 universal player. The Oppo is a pretty neutral performer but my issues with it are two-fold - it seems a little weak in the bass and at higher playback levels it can get a little 'shouty'

This Sancoz DAC has excellent measurements, up in the top 3 of all DACs on the SINAD board https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/soncoz-sgd1-audio-dac-review.10295/ (note the 'ESS distortion hump' has since been eliminated on production units).

Whilst it is not cheap at £470 delivered, it's not unrealistically priced. So I ordered it off Amazon with the full intention of returning it if I could detect no improvement between it and the DAC built in to the Oppo. A number of people advised me that I certainly would hear an improvement but I was sceptical. But not too sceptical to try it.

Pictures:

https://i.ibb.co/H2ZByW7/soncoz2.jpg (https://ibb.co/fSJqWhM)

The orange display is pretty cool. I like orange displays, look good in the dark:

https://i.ibb.co/gmz3mjY/Soncoz1.jpg (https://ibb.co/4KP7Kmk)
high quality photo upload (https://imgbb.com/)

Now I'm not going to spend that kind of money if all it does is look cool. So with the Soncoz hooked into the system I have spent some considerable time on 'critical listening' over the past few days. The rest of the system comprises:

Oppo BDT1 universal player - a budget Oppo designed for home theatre installs
Nelson Pass DCB1 - a zero gain pre-amp built DIY from circuit published by Mr Pass
Krell KSA100 Mk2 - a dual mono class A amplifier with 100 watts per channel
JM Labs Electra 926 - 3 way four driver medium sized floorstanding loudspeakers.

All cables including the digital coax are Spotfire cables from Bigbottle Audio.

I set the unit up using digital coax cable from the Oppo to the Soncoz. Filter used was fast roll off. All source material was 16/44.1 'CD quality'.

I listened to a pretty wide variety of music over the last three days but have limited my comments here to performance with albums that many people should be fairly familiar with. With these albums I also listened to them without the DAC in circuit just to confirm what I thought. All of these recordings have points in them where a flawed replay system can fall down and reveal itself so I was particularly listening to these specific passages of music to see if there was an improvement and to see if I could catch any flaws in the sound of the Soncoz.

I kicked off with old demo staple Dire Strait's 'Brothers In Arms' which also happens to be the first record I have heard on a 'proper' hi-fi system so tradition dictates that it tends to get wheeled out at some point whenever I make a change. First impressions on swapping from the Oppo's DAC were that this was indeed a 'different sound.' Cleaner but 'flatter'. I'll come back to that later.

The opening of 'Walk Of Life' is always a bit of a test as those keyboard chords can get a little strident especially listening at high levels. But they were rendered here without any glare. The backing vocals were well separated and with their own acoustic preserved. This was pretty obvious, I didn't have to concentrate to hear it, a good sign.

'The Man's Too Strong' has those powerful acoustic guitar chords that can be a bit much if there is distortion in the signal, these were also presented without any hash or glare, the sound of the guitar was excellent in fact, the character of the specific instrument was obvious. It sounded sweet and sonorous.

Next up Eagles - 'Hotel California.' I wasn't that happy with how this album sounded with the Oppo. There was clarity but it was also a bit ragged-sounding, and this isn't a ragged-sounding recording. The Soncoz gave a quite different rendition. Separation of instruments and vocals on the title track was quite something. The overall sound was smooth with no edges to it. The guitar sounded 'real.'

Bass on 'New Kid In Town' was very good, reverb tails were obvious, quite impressed by that, as they are not really 'there' with the Oppo. 'Life In The Fast Lane' had the propulsive bass that drives (ho ho) the song along and there was no distortion, glare or 'messiness' on the climax where all the many tracks in the mix were presented clearly and cleanly. This was also true of 'Victim Of Love' which can easily get strident on the climax. The reverb and decay on the piano notes on the slow number, 'Pretty Maids', was impressive, actually a 'wow' moment there.

Finally I put on The Rolling Stones 'Sticky Fingers.' This was the original CD not the re-mix/re-master they did for SACD. I love this record but it's not a polished recording like the previous two so I thought it would be a good test.

At least I've always considered it as a fairly 'rough' recording until I heard it played back through the Soncoz. Opening tune 'Brown Sugar' sounded much cleaner than on the Oppo. My eyes widened. By the time I got to 'Can You hear Me Knocking? I'd completely re-evaluated my opinion of this recording. Oh and the guitar work on 'Wild Horses' was just presented superbly, beautifully detailed and 'real' sounding. I didn't make so many notes on this album as I just got sucked in to the music completely.



Conclusion?

Well I'm not sending it back. The sound quality is clearly better with this DAC replacing the one in the Oppo. It isn't night and day but it is obviously better and not just different.

Regarding the 'flat' sound I mentioned as my first impression at the start of the review - it quickly became apparent that this was down to a total lack of glare, grain or distortion. Unlike with the Oppo where I would have to get up and drop the levels by a little bit sometimes, with the Sancoz I was turning them up instead. Once I acclimatised to this difference I started to appreciate it.

If you're looking for a DAC that will add fireworks to the sound of your system this is not it. But if you are looking for a DAC that will not add character to the sound but will just let it pass through without mangling it in any way then I can recommend this product.

Firebottle
28-06-2020, 11:44
Great review and happy you are pleased with it.

Macca
28-06-2020, 12:10
Thanks Alan.

StingRay
28-06-2020, 15:42
That is interesting about Brown Sugar I always thought there was a problem with the recording.

Macca
28-06-2020, 16:31
That is interesting about Brown Sugar I always thought there was a problem with the recording.

On Aretha Franklin 'Soul '69' CD I thought there was a couple of occasions where her vocal overloads the mic. I was pretty surprised to discover after many years of listening to the album that it was actually distortion generated in replay not recording.

If you're recording Aretha Franklin you're going to know how to mic her up. And in any case when they heard the overload they'd just do another take. But that only occurred to me afterwards.

StingRay
29-06-2020, 08:10
On Aretha Franklin 'Soul '69' CD I thought there was a couple of occasions where her vocal overloads the mic. I was pretty surprised to discover after many years of listening to the album that it was actually distortion generated in replay not recording.

If you're recording Aretha Franklin you're going to know how to mic her up. And in any case when they heard the overload they'd just do another take. But that only occurred to me afterwards.

Not always, I'm reading that quite a few recordings are over loaded on the tape, such as Joni Mitchell - Blue. Actually I played Brown Sugar and it sounded a lot better than I remember, maybe my system changes have improved it?

Macca
29-06-2020, 11:14
Where have you read that about 'Blue'?

I have a copy and there's no overload I can recall on it. Not played it in while though, I'll give it a go round and refresh my memory.

It isn't an easy recording to reproduce as it has lots of dynamic piano and female vocal. I've had a few set ups in the past that made it sound like crap. I think some recordings just highlight distortion inherent in the replay equipment more than others do.

Marco
29-06-2020, 14:39
Nice review, Martin - well written and informative. Sounds like the new DAC has been a welcome addition to your system, so enjoy rediscovering your music collection!:cool:

Marco.

StingRay
29-06-2020, 15:01
Where have you read that about 'Blue'?

I have a copy and there's no overload I can recall on it. Not played it in while though, I'll give it a go round and refresh my memory.

It isn't an easy recording to reproduce as it has lots of dynamic piano and female vocal. I've had a few set ups in the past that made it sound like crap. I think some recordings just highlight distortion inherent in the replay equipment more than others do.

I think it was on the Hoffman forum. It is on the vocals apparently. Also Shelby Lynne's Just a Little Lovin' which is an analogue recording has some which she wanted left as they were.

Macca
29-06-2020, 15:45
I think it was on the Hoffman forum. It is on the vocals apparently. Also Shelby Lynne's Just a Little Lovin' which is an analogue recording has some which she wanted left as they were.

This? https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/joni-mitchell-blue-on-dcc-noise-on-track-10.162778/

StingRay
29-06-2020, 17:33
This? https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/joni-mitchell-blue-on-dcc-noise-on-track-10.162778/

No it was not that one, it was a longer thread with a more general topic about recordings.

Macca
29-06-2020, 20:23
No it was not that one, it was a longer thread with a more general topic about recordings.

Right - well I did have a listen to it - it's the original CD release - at pretty high levels and I couldn't hear any overload on the vocal, or any distortion. Even when she's really going for it. I couldn't hear the ticking from the 'damaged tape' on 'The Last Time I saw Richard' that they were talking about on that thread I linked to either, despite listening very intently.

Could be ,my hearing I suppose.. I know the power amp I'm using isn't the most transparent so maybe that's it? Or maybe there just isn't a problem with the recording at all?. I mean Joni produced it herself.

If I had to bet, I'd bet it's not the recording.

I will try it again with a different power amp in the system at some point though, just out of interest.

Macca
02-07-2020, 11:48
Just trying the Soncoz as a pre-amplifier hooked straight into a Philips 380 'Black Tulip' power amp. Sounds excellent! So far anyway, I've only played half an album.

walpurgis
02-07-2020, 12:10
Sounds like you've got a good result there Martin. A decent DAC can make a huge difference. I suspect many have not heard music through one, hence comments suggesting CD is inferior.

Macca
02-07-2020, 12:34
I'm guess there are cheaper DACs that would sound just as good. But I liked the orange display and the fact that the measurements are so close to perfect.

I'm more surprised that it has effectively made my pre-amp redundant though.

I don't think the problems that some people have with digital have much to do with the DAC though.

Discopants
02-07-2020, 21:09
Shouldnt this be in the digital forum rather than this one ?


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Macca
03-07-2020, 06:49
Shouldnt this be in the digital forum rather than this one ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Strokes of Genius
(3 Viewing)
Tell us of any fantastic tweaks, free or otherwise, which have transformed your system. Also post reviews of equipment and ancillaries.

Discopants
03-07-2020, 10:52
I assumed they would mean reviews of tweaks and ancillary equipment, there are loads of reviews of DACs in the digital forum already.


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Macca
03-07-2020, 11:11
Nope, it is all reviews of anything, doesn't matter what it is. This issue has been raised before which is how I know :)

Macca
04-07-2020, 14:22
okay after more extended listening the DAC can't replace my pre-amp. Might be a dynamic range issue with it being a digital volume control. I had it about halfway round but the sound was a bit 'sat on'. I didn't think there was still this issue with digital volume losing dynamic range if not flat out but certainly does sound like it. Maybe it is something else. Anyway, as a consequence I've scrapped the idea of using it as a pre-amp too.

Covenant
04-07-2020, 16:42
okay after more extended listening the DAC can't replace my pre-amp. Might be a dynamic range issue with it being a digital volume control. I had it about halfway round but the sound was a bit 'sat on'. I didn't think there was still this issue with digital volume losing dynamic range if not flat out but certainly does sound like it. Maybe it is something else. Anyway, as a consequence I've scrapped the idea of using it as a pre-amp too.

Thank God for that, I have a DCB1 and have a Soncoz SGD1 on order. Didnt want to have wasted money on the preamp!

Macca
05-07-2020, 13:59
Thank God for that, I have a DCB1 and have a Soncoz SGD1 on order. Didnt want to have wasted money on the preamp!

Your Soncoz turn up yet Jerry?

A bit more to add to this review. I had thought a slightly 'soft' overall character to the sound was down to Krell power amp I usually have wired up. Trying another power amp (Philips 380) and a Sony TA F 530ES the 'softness' remained. Obviously that's not a character of all three of these amplifiers so the cause had to be elsewhere.

Thinking it unlikely to be the DAC and not having another stand-alone DAC to swap in I changed CD transports instead, substituting a Panasonic DVD player for the Oppo. A surprising improvement. Why would this be? I don't know. Obviously not all CD transports will sound the same but you would think the Oppo would be superior. For whatever reason, it isn't.

I need to get the Oppo hooked up to a monitor and check out the settings. I'm wondering if it upsamples the signal between reading it and outputting it? I had an upsampling CD player once and didn't get on with it. Soft and mushy. Anyway will report back on that as the Oppo will now be taking over from the Panasonic on A/V duties in the TV system.

Some might prefer the softer presentation of course and consider that superior. Personally I like a quite sparkly, crisp 'hi-fi' sound over the 'organic' or 'analogue' sound so many seem to prefer. In any case, it wasn't anything to do with the DAC, which continues to impress with its beautifully clean and sweet sound.

Covenant
05-07-2020, 14:53
Hi Martin,
I should have the Soncoz next Tuesday as I ordered late on Friday.
Most of my listening is streamed so I hope the dac likes my Squeezebox Touch and Croft amp.

Macca
05-07-2020, 16:01
Cool. Squeezbox is good, great SQ from them.

I've taken the protective film off the display on my Soncoz now so there's no going back. :)

Leeken
05-07-2020, 22:07
Interesting that you found that,I had a oppo 203,it’s own dac was no where near as good as my caiman seg,and as a transport it was no better than my Sony bdps7200,obviously all with cd as the source,also though the picture quality with Blu-ray wasn’t any better,did have the best remote control I’ve ever used though.

antonio
06-07-2020, 16:58
Pleased you're still enjoying the Soncoz Macca.

Macca
06-07-2020, 17:04
Pleased you're still enjoying the Soncoz Macca.

Cheers, really am getting a seriously good sound out of it, and I'm just using a Panasonic DVD player as a transport. Only cost me tenner! Imagine what it must be like with a serious transport?

I see today that Soncoz say they have a power amp in development at the moment. Might be worth a look.

Covenant
09-07-2020, 10:16
The Soncoz turned up on Wednesday and I have spent some time listening to it. Initially I thought it ok but it seems to have improved in the last few hours or maybe I have become accustomed to it. Bass is deep but really well controlled. The top end hasn't quite got the sparkle of my old Beresford but I am beginning to think that it might have been exaggerated.
Soundstage is wider and more focused. Daughter loves the Bluetooth feature, got to admit the sound quality is fine from her phone!
The rotary control feels so cheap, I know others have mentioned this but if there was no remote I think I would have returned it.
Dont think there is any protective film over the display on mine and the mains cable is not UK standard. Otherwise good service from Purite.

Macca
09-07-2020, 11:15
I didn't notice any protective film on mine either until I read that it was there. Took a bit of picking at it to find an edge to it.

Agree that the HF is not at all exaggerated. Could be a positive or a negative depending on the rest of the system. I do like a bit of sparkle myself.

Mine came with two mains cables neither of which is for the UK. Looking at them some places must have some right wacky sockets. Fortunately I had a spare 'foo' mains cable which I pressed into service.

Covenant
09-07-2020, 12:52
Yea-I found a foo one too!

Barry
13-07-2020, 18:45
It's been a while since I played 'Blue' either on LP or CD, so I will have to give it a go. If it is a clicking noise, due to the original tape becoming creased then there is nothing that can be done about it, apart from digitally 'notching' out each click.


Great review BTW Martin. I've always been content with the built in DACs of any player I have had, although in the early days I did play around with two separate DACs and compared them with the one in my Sony CDP 930. There were distinct and repeatable differences, but overall neither of the external DACs were better. So following the dictum of the German Bauhaus architect Mies van der Rohre: "the less is more", I kept to the internal Sony DAC.

Macca
13-07-2020, 19:00
Regarding 'Blue' I tried very hard to hear the alleged issue and could not. But it happens. If someone who had heard it had been there and said 'There it is' I probably would hear it and then never be able to 'unhear' it afterwards.

Assuming it is there of course, which I have my doubts. Maybe it is only on some versions.

It is a truly great record. One of those where no matter how many times you heard it, when it finishes, and that last piano note dies away, you can't help giving a sort of mental 'Wow!'.