Nearfield listening with full range floorstanders - bad idea?

[Gazjam]

Mulling over a few speaker and speaker placement options going forward...

Including having speakers further out from the wall then I've been used to, say 85cm - 1m, which obviously encroaches into the room more.

Room size is ok, even if speakers out a metre from the back wall, the space from speaker plane to listening position would still be greater than the distance between the speakers, so the "Triangle" setup would still be intact.

Speakers closer to my ears though so perhaps a bit more "nearfield" than before?
Any comments on this?

Assuming rear ported speakers:
Thinking in terms of reduced bass reflections from bigger back wall distance(good) vs. possibly worse bass reflections with reduced distance from speaker to wall behind the listening position. (bad)

My sofa is up against the back wall and cant be moved forward.

Thanks. :)

[Barry]

Why don't you "suck it and see"? Admittedly the Impulses are heavy speakers, but I'm sure you could manage.

[anthonyTD]

Nearfield listening can be very rewarding, with the right speakers, for eg, i sit about 7 feet away from my Tannoy's, and they work fine, although i know from experience that some speakers are more fussy as to their positioning, but as Barry said, just suck it and see, you may be surprised! :)
A...

[Gazjam]

I'll give it a whirl, thanks guys.

I know many Japanese Audiophile types they have crazy big speakers in tiny rooms, and sit feet away from them, they seem quite happy!

[Opti-cal]

In my short experience, near-field is more satisfying.

Big room, distant listening position, big speakers, powerful amp can make for a huge, impressive sound, but get near-field right and its just so much more intimate.
The 'triangle' rule is a good starting point but 5 inches forward or back can make a lot of difference. That includes speakers and listening position.

Always good to pull the speakers into the room a bit. Audio Note's and a few other 'corner designs' excepted.

DO IT!

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Gary

The Impulses are that much affected by being near a rear wall, or that's how I found them, I think this is due to them being bass downward firing. I would start with them very close, then sit in your listening position and listen then bring forward an inch or so and listen to the same track again, keep do so making a note of where you are when you like start to like it most, I suspect there will be a point when moving them to near to you will create secondary reflections and enhance to low end.

If you want to be more scientific, download REW and plug in a USB mic to the laptop, position this where you head would normally be when listening, and then take sweep measurements from 20 -20Khz. You will need a lead to take the sound from the Laptop to the auxiliary input of you amp. You can then measure at each position and compare the results and choose the best position. From my understanding ideally you want your head to be at the bottom of the equilateral triangle, so if your speakers are 10' apart, then from each speaker to your head should measure 10' as well. http://mh-audio.nl/Calculators/SpeakerPlacing.html this may help

However I have found that this is easily compromised by what else is in the room and how much reflective surfaces there are, such as large windows or patio doors. For instance our room is 22' by 11'6, a typical long lounge, I have found that by having the speakers 3' out, to the front of the speaker, from the front facing wall and slightly toed in and me sitting either at the equalateral triangle or at double that distance from the speakers I can get a good sound, however the bass definition is slightly compromised when further away, but is acceptable.

Have fun.

[Barry]

A friend of mine uses Impulse H2 speakers. They are about 2m from a rear wall, about 2m apart and very close to the wall at the sides. His listening position is about 3m away. The speakers are toed in so that the front face of each speaker is 'square on' to the listener.

There is no curtailment of bass or definition, but the stereo imaging could be better.

[Pigmy Pony]

My speakers are pretty large floorstanders, I have them about half a metre from their backs to the rear wall, and I have found they sound best to me when I'm about 1.5 metres from the plane of the speakers (they are about 2.4 metres apart). Does indeed sound intimate, with instruments well defined too. Unfortunately that listening position means my big fat head would block Mrs. P's view of the telly.

I have a recliner chair against the opposite wall, where the bass is much greater (boundary reinforcement?) This is great fun with some electronic music, but not really "correct" and ultimately tiring. I choose my seating position according to music choice, mood, and whether Mrs. Pony is in the house :)

Bottom line is try different positions till you find what YOU like. And if that means listening from outside in the garden, so be it ;)

[Flo]

Try positioning using Cardas method, done using golden ratios. Speakers end up long way into room but gives a near field presentation, amazing soundstage. Like mega headphones.
Personally generally find most rooms will work dividing length by 3 or 5 and placing speakers and chair on these points, in my room 17ft by 12ft, room therefore= 200in” so speakers front baffle is 40in from back wall and 36 from side, chair is positioned so I’m 40in from rear wall. Has worked in most rooms, I’m lucky? I live alone so no spouse to please.

[Macca]

I'll give it a whirl, thanks guys.

I know many Japanese Audiophile types they have crazy big speakers in tiny rooms, and sit feet away from them, they seem quite happy!

They don't tend to be big three or four way speakers though. Usually Tannoys or single driver types. A Tannoy will work well in a box room and with you sat at any distance.

I think big multi-ways, that's the only type where near-field doesn't work very well. There's got to be a bit of distance for all the different sound sources to gel together. Say 6 foot minimum.

[paulf-2007]

My listening room 9' X 7' with a vaulted ceiling, well treated with 4' X 2' absorption panels at first reflection on walls and ceiling plus three panels behind the sofa, two flat on the wall and the third angled from wall to ceiling, speakers are tqwt 900 X 300 X 450 deep with 10" full range drivers. Sound is superb, deep, textured controlled bass, clean midrange and treble. I sit 2' from the treated back wall, speaker baffles approx 2' from front wall, so 5' from speakers.

[Gazjam]

Thanks for the replies Gents, great to get different experiences on “best practice” setup.

All our rooms are different of course, so For my sins been doing some further light reading on room dimensions and speaker interaction.
Not something I’ve spent much time on in the past tbh, usually just go with manufacturers recommendations.

Looked at the Cardas method, golden triangle and all that good stuff, but I think the one that makes most sense to me and my room is the setup guide by Dynaudio?

Spent some time tonight with this video and the measuring tape, and have to say I can really notice the difference bringing the speakers out more from the back wall.
Not just the soundstage being less “stuck” to the wall, but the directness and imaging being quite improved?
Also, getting the front plane of the drive units out in front of the rack sitting between them has improved the imaging a fair bit.
Wondered if it would.

The H2’s are getting some work done atm, so have my Dali Zensor 5s in the system.
Even though these are smaller and front ported, I can tell the benefit of less reflected bass from the back wall muddying up the image.
Will have more effect I’d think with rear firing speakers.
Great stuff, worth taking the time this stuff, and good to know going forward.

Heres the Dynaudio setup video, their main starting point is to measure your room Dimensions.
From there, move speakers 1/5th that distance from front and side walls, and move your listening position the same 1/5 off the back wall.
One major thing I’d been getting wrong in the past is measuring distance from the back of the speaker cabinet to the wall?
No, from a Central point on the plane of the tweeter, on the front baffle.

Great video, and having tried out these and some other recommendations can recommend them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2168&v=8b1W7QgqhR8&feature=emb _logo

[Flo]

Fifths [thirds for big rooms] has been best for even thin rooms for me. If you can move rack to side , makes mega difference on soundstage. Also allows speakers to breathe, sounds odd but any large heavy objects nearby such as boundaries, Chairs etc drag image off centre and deflect and absorb sound[ unevenly] . Rack also prone to ringing if to close to wall or corner, and esp in between speakers, I put a heavy rug behind rack when in central position.
Use to think bit of a faff, but having treated room [front and back bass traps, side panels and central absorber, rack on side wall] it’s a different league, aural picture is scary clear detail wallop, 3D soundstage. Compared to new kit treating room is cheap.

[Opti-cal]

Fifths [thirds for big rooms] has been best for even thin rooms for me. If you can move rack to side , makes mega difference on soundstage. Also allows speakers to breathe, sounds odd but any large heavy objects nearby such as boundaries, Chairs etc drag image off centre and deflect and absorb sound[ unevenly] . Rack also prone to ringing if to close to wall or corner, and esp in between speakers, I put a heavy rug behind rack when in central position.
Use to think bit of a faff, but having treated room [front and back bass traps, side panels and central absorber, rack on side wall] it’s a different league, aural picture is scary clear detail wallop, 3D soundstage. Compared to new kit treating room is cheap.

Spot on, agree completely.

(If you can) Treatment unleashes the true potential of our kit. I often wonder how much peoples rooms are holding their hifi's back. Of course its not viable to be putting up panels and rearranging the furniture for most of us but once you've heard the difference it's difficult to go back.

Admittedly I've only had 'proper' treatment in place for a relatively short time (my old room was acoustically very sympathetic, this one is not) but the difference was dramatic.

Once the room is sorted THEN the $$$$ cables and cartridges begin to make sense . . . . maybe.

[Lawrence001]

My listening room 9' X 7' with a vaulted ceiling, well treated with 4' X 2' absorption panels at first reflection on walls and ceiling plus three panels behind the sofa, two flat on the wall and the third angled from wall to ceiling, speakers are tqwt 900 X 300 X 450 deep with 10" full range drivers. Sound is superb, deep, textured controlled bass, clean midrange and treble. I sit 2' from the treated back wall, speaker baffles approx 2' from front wall, so 5' from speakers.Do you really mean feet? That's a very small room for those speakers isn't it?

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[paulf-2007]

Do you really mean feet? That's a very small room for those speakers isn't it?

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalkyes, you would think so and my mate visited from St Leonards and admitted that he was expecting it to sound rubbish and was very surprised how good it sounds. I've not heard better anywhere and some very high end kit. My speakers are Lii audio crystal 10 in tqwt with a Bakoon 11r. Normal levels 75-80db and sometimes 90db and all very controlled, no boomy bass. When I moved my kit back from France where I had a barn I decided not to have it in the lounge especially when the wife retired from work and I didn't have day time to listen so I built a garden room. If you use Facebook I have several videos in the Lii Audio Speakers and Drivers Team group.

[Mr.Ian]

I have my impulses sitting on a tile foam tile deflex combo. Smooth tikebto the carpet allows me to slide them about to try different set ups. But they work great in corners and flst against the walls so dissappear in the room relative to open space positioning

[speedyj]

I listen at about 7-8ft with my Tannoy XT 6F's. Appreciate they're not high end but I think they're a very good speaker with the right components upstream

I have also always had a pretty well sorted full digital setup on my PC running to some Adam Audio active monitors which are ruthlessly revealing but smooth with a ribbon tweeter. Listend at anything from 2-4ft to full room.

Both, to me, are wonderful but the Tannoys are better on the end of the vinyl rig without a doubt. There is a fullness to the spectrum and soundstage that i miss when going to far back from the performance if that makes sense.

We all have our own ears i suppose :)

[Pharos]

Which ADAMs do you have John?

[speedyj]

Which ADAMs do you have John?

I have Adam A7 originals. Had them for a long time and have even had both main drivers replaced after failure as I just love the sound they make for very nearfield listening.

They have never ever caused ear fatigue and I beleive its the ribbon tweeter.

[Pharos]

When you say both drivers, do you mean both woofers or woofers and tweeters?

I'm surprised because if thee woofers are Eton, as are mine, they seem to be well made, although expensive.
Did you have them serviced at the Bournemouth centre?

I agree about the tweeters, very pure, and I suppose the even later ones than mine even better, and personally I rate them way above domes.

This afternoon I played Steamhammer, a late 60s blues album which I had always thought had badly distorted vocals on it, even on BBC monitors in the early seventies, and a fellow engineer said that his brother recorded it in his studio, and that the vocals were distorted. But the sibilants were extremely good, and I heard parts never heard before, and with a very markedly better dynamic range on lead guitar.

[speedyj]

When you say both drivers, do you mean both woofers or woofers and tweeters?

I'm surprised because if thee woofers are Eton, as are mine, they seem to be well made, although expensive.
Did you have them serviced at the Bournemouth centre?

I agree about the tweeters, very pure, and I suppose the even later ones than mine even better, and personally I rate them way above domes.

This afternoon I played Steamhammer, a late 60s blues album which I had always thought had badly distorted vocals on it, even on BBC monitors in the early seventies, and a fellow engineer said that his brother recorded it in his studio, and that the vocals were distorted. But the sibilants were extremely good, and I heard parts never heard before, and with a very markedly better dynamic range on lead guitar.

I'm talking about the bass/mid bass driver in the Adam A7's not anything in my Tannoys.

Its a proprietry unit of some kind that I assume is matched to the internal amp or vice versa. They where a bugger to source correctly from Germany.