Speaker setup

[Gazjam]

Like the cut of this guys Jib...
Good video on speaker setup.


https://youtu.be/VHOYXjVJKKY

[Covenant]

Really good video Gaz, lots of useful points. Also watched the one on cables and will watch the one on hifi tweaks later. As you can tell, I am still furloughed!

[Gazjam]

Same!

[speedyj]

Just sat and watched this through which is odd for me.

The guy speaks a lot of sense.

[glenhb]

Good information.
Just a pity he doesn't know the difference between "toeing in" and "towing in"

[Pete812]

Thanks for sharing Gary, very interesting.

I've now watched a few of his videos, he's quite a good presenter.

[kennystone]

Thank you for the video, I need to subscribe to it - very detailed and clear explanation.

[Gazjam]

Thank you for the video, I need to subscribe to it - very detailed and clear explanation.

Cool. :thumbsup:
The guys stuff is very good isn't it?

[rmcin626]

Cool. :thumbsup:


The guys stuff is very good isn't it?

Have watched a couple this morning, found them very good .

[winstonmalcolm]

Thanks for posting .
Watched a few videos and subscribed, also tweaked my speaker setup and have improved imaging.

[gwernaffield]

i used the isotek ultimate setup disk , it was simply the best way for me ,
peter

[Pegwill]

Hi All

I quite like this guys explanation. Setting your speakers starts round about 18:00.

https://youtu.be/84Pf0ycbyBM

Happy New Year to all

Regards

William

[cooky]

Hmm, so tweeters radiate like lasers do they?

[Filterlab]

It would be rather unusual if they did. Talk about a narrow sweet spot! :lol:

Admittedly ribbons and electrostats can have a comparatively narrow dispersion, but hardly what one would call 'like a laser'.

[Macca]

The higher the frequency the more directional it is.

[cooky]

Well worth a read;

https://faculty.tru.ca/rtaylor/publications/reflectgeometry.pdf

[camtwister]

Thanks for this link, Frank.
I have employed a similar approach to toe-in, as the author discusses, in my listening room because the area is a little smaller than the ideal for minimisation of reflections at the listening position.
The results have been worthwhile.
I did note, however, that the article does not consider wave interference due to increased toe-in and it's effects, such as comb filtering.
No doubt for reasons of simplicity, it does not include dispersion angles or frequency in the equations.
Neither does it discuss the relationship between height of the listening position and bandpassed drivers. Or ceilings!
Nonetheless, It's an enjoyable academic article.

[guy]

Thanks for the link - I usually give up part way through but he seems to be knowledgable, interesting and (most importantly!) not trying to sell me anything :)

Link has got me thinking, I would like to see opinion/s on long large rooms and carpet or not - will start a thread.

[cooky]

He probably didn't include the ceiling as the height puts the first reflection delay outside the 'danger' window.
I'm intrigued why you think toeing in increases comb filtering/wave interference can you point me to any links that discus this?
I may be misunderstanding here-wouldn't be the first time;-);The height vs bandpassed drivers I can only conclude the author is assuming any listening is made at a distance sufficient for the main front lobe to form?

Cheers
F

[camtwister]

I think you're correct in both postulations.
That is, the author is assuming a front lobe at the listening position and that ceilings are considered not dangerous in this scenario.
Perhaps, this is one case in which an artexed ceiling may be an improvement over a flat surface! Gotta break up those reflections, man.
I think it's a good article - I was just noting the assumptions required to keep the maths 'doable' - for example, the thickness and effective density of the surfaces is ignored, et cetera.

I don't have any links to comb filtering in domestic audio systems but I think it's safe to say that toe-in angle is a factor in HF interrelation.
I'm happily prepared to be shown otherwise, if I'm scribbling nonsense.
(The lower frequencies are part of the equation also but if you are listening a few metres from the source, then room interaction is probably of greater consequence. Your neighbours may disagree, given that the wavelength of 80Hz is approximately 4m, whereas 8000Hz is about 4cm.
I've experienced comb filtering in the bass when operating PA systems in the open air, with multiple driver arrays, at listening distances that are significant with respect to wavelength.)

Consider two cabinets in parallel. At a distance x from the tweeter, dependent upon the horizontal dispersion, the direct waveform from each source will meet and interact.
If you increase toe-in, then the wave fronts will meet earlier. If they meet in front of the listening position, then there is the potential for this effect to be heard.
Would you agree? I know that there's not much pressure energy involved but perhaps enough interference to change perception of the stereo image, if not timbre, which is where the author of the article comes in.

[cooky]

Interesting idea/subject!

I don't think the wavefronts meeting 'earlier' is an issue.

AIUI The toe in is not designed to modify the frequency response at the ears but to shift the position of and delay the first reflection.
Within the parameters of the adjustment, the horizontal dispersion of the speakers ideally should be the pretty much same at the off axis position as on axis(in terms of freq response) so all things being equal the interference patterns of the spherical wavefronts would be no different. You could argue it's when the toe in sounds wrong that you have exceeded the coverage pattern of the speakers and may well then shift the position of the +/- interference locations in space. I'm blessed with the conical dispersion of Tannoy Dual Concentric so tend not to worry too much about weird of axis response/phase issues of more conventional arrangements.

[camtwister]

Thanks Frank, that's improved my comprehension.

[camtwister]

https://youtu.be/u2fBMK18p2U

[Lawrence001]

.
I've experienced comb filtering in the bass when operating PA systems in the open air, with multiple driver arrays, at listening distances that are significant with respect to wavelength.)


Where was that, Glastonbury?

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[camtwister]

Nope, not Glastonbury.
One of the most memorable text book examples of it was at the Sonoria Festival in Parco Aquatica, Milan.

[cooky]

That animation is neat, I found this online too https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/2816-sound-wave-interference

[Lawrence001]

Nope, not Glastonbury.
One of the most memorable text book examples of it was at the Sonoria Festival in Parco Aquatica, Milan.Nice, hope you got to enjoy the show [emoji846]

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[GrahamFP]

I was looking for where to post the link to "LOTS" this is a detailed lesson in speaker placement, which I think is very interesting. Incidentally "A British Audiophile" also thought it very good and helpful, he made a comment. Here#s the link:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyTkwkK8ON0 (GrahamFP)

[winstonmalcolm]

I was looking for where to post the link to "LOTS" this is a detailed lesson in speaker placement, which I think is very interesting. Incidentally "A British Audiophile" also thought it very good and helpful, he made a comment. Here#s the link:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyTkwkK8ON0 (GrahamFP)

A little fast and loose with the maths (.4 of a foot = 4 inches? etc ) but very interesting. I like the formulaic approach.
May give it a try sometime but I have a small room and large speakers so am somewhat dictated to by the space limitations.

[zanash]

Hmm, so tweeters radiate like lasers do they?

think more like a torch beam ...most tweeters have a dispersion angle of about 6 degrees at full output and can fall off as much as 15db over 15 degrees off axis.

[Macca]

bit of a generalisation, what if they have a waveguide or are horn loaded?

[GrahamFP]

A little fast and loose with the maths (.4 of a foot = 4 inches? etc ) but very interesting. I like the formulaic approach.
May give it a try sometime but I have a small room and large speakers so am somewhat dictated to by the space limitations.

Same for me but if I move again I will be looking for a house with a room with greater acoustic possibilities. Actually with volume other than rather low, it almost doesn't matter where I sit at this address (We bought this house unseen, due to returning from France and all the wretched restrictions imposed) The estate agency pictures made it look much larger than it is. But nevertheless, one way or another we were lucky to land here.