View Full Version : Pester Parilament: Save FM
I have just received the email below.
My view is that Internet Radio beats FM, but I don't want FM switched off - it's good on the move - DAB is neither good on the move or in the lounge.
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savefm.org newsletter
I found out today that Ed Vaizey, the Government Minister responsible for broadcasting, will be making an announcement about the Government's plans for digital radio switchover in the House of Commons on Thursday. As such, I would strongly urge people to send their views on this subject to Ed Vaizey prior to him making this announcement. His email address is as follows:
vaizeye@parliament.uk
Judging by what they've said up to now, the new Government Ministers appear to be just as keen on digital radio switchover taking place as the last lot were, and it appears to me that they've fallen for the radio industry's lobbying about this hook, line and sinker.
As they only seem to have heard one side of the story here, I honestly don't think the new Government realises just how opposed to digital radio switchover the public is, so now would be an opportune time to let him know!
Apologies for sending updates to this mailing list so infrequently. However, I've just finished a very busy period of work, so I'll be able to send updates more frequently from now on, and I plan to add new content to the savefm.org website as well.
Try this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/7876419/The-end-of-FM-radio.html
Covenant
07-07-2010, 16:56
Why is DAB no good on the move, is the quality inferior? I must say I dont fancy spending £300 to have it fitted in my car if its not as good.
At present bitrates DAB struggles to match FM quality - streams off Freeview or satellite are better, and internet streams even better.
FM degardes more gracefully than any digital broadcast. If you drive through a poor signal area you may still be able to make sense of the news on FM.
Spectral Morn
07-07-2010, 17:26
Just done.
Regards D S D L
I had to look up DAB. Apparently it doesn't exist in the US or Japan. :(
My dream of a future for mass media is to instead find a way to make internet available freely to the masses. I know there's big cost to the providers with equipment and infrastructure but could some genius come up with a financial model that would work without hitting hardworking people with big taxes please?
They were able to figure something out for AM/FM and TV. How about gigawatt wifi access points? Could be used to transmit any form of media. Maybe have to endure some ads. Pay for a dedicated line if you don't like the ads.
This is just a dream I had and I know it's probably about as likely as world peace, but... well just saying...
How about gigawatt wifi access points? Could be used to transmit any form of media.
Is this what interests you? Multicast Radio and Television:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/multicast/
That's cool and all but you still need an ISP to access it right?
I'm talking about the internet beamed out for us all. We just need the device.
That's cool and all but you still need an ISP to access it right?
I'm talking about the internet beamed out for us all. We just need the device.
Well, an ISP is a commercial necessity to pay for the last link in the chain - and I presume they pay to use the backbone. It could be organised differently.
General broadcasting of the Internet would be more difficult because it requires two way traffic, but I suppose you envisage something like the mobile phone network.
Some local communities with no broadband access have set up their own neighbourhood schemes with the signal leapfrogging from wireless access point to wireless access point, giving WiFi over a very wide area. In some cases the main link to the outside world has been by microwave dish.
Some ISPs make a broadband service available by satellite. The upload is narrowband by telephone line. It is very expensive.
DAB is and was a huge con, driven by the stupid.........anyway the switchover wont happen.....analogue/FM rules: FACT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment_and_arts/10545573.stm
and the digital economy bill is in trouble too...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10542400.stm
:cool:
Spectral Morn
08-07-2010, 13:54
I think it best not to assume anything.
If you are a passionate FM user and advocate, then I think the most prudent course of action is to keep the pressure on. That way the government does not have an opportunity to mistake the silence of waiting to see what happens for acceptance. I think it best to keep at it and make sure there is no silence.
Regards D S D L
quadsugdenman
08-07-2010, 14:05
Yes WE all know too well the shortcomings of DAB radio and the disinformation surrounding FM. The BBC have stepped up the charm offensive using the recycle for Africa campaign and Steven Fry (who really should know better) extolling the virtues :scratch:(!!!!???) of DAB.
However it is the fuckwits in government who still need to be convinced as they still are only seeing it from one side thanks to the commercial lobbyists with vested interests in DAB. :mental:
Unfortinately we will also need to convince yer man on the top deck of the Clapham omnibus who has no real interest in the audio quality of FM apart from the hiss and crackle that used to spoil his enjoyment. While in contrast, DAB is sold as comparitively clear and is 'new technology' confirmed by what he has heard on his spanking new tranny. :doh:
The fight goes on.:fence:
Spectral Morn
08-07-2010, 15:14
Yes WE all know too well the shortcomings of DAB radio and the disinformation surrounding FM. The BBC have stepped up the charm offensive using the recycle for Africa campaign and Steven Fry (who really should know better) extolling the virtues :scratch:(!!!!???) of DAB.
However it is the fuckwits in government who still need to be convinced as they still are only seeing it from one side thanks to the commercial lobbyists with vested interests in DAB. :mental:
Unfortinately we will also need to convince yer man on the top deck of the Clapham omnibus who has no real interest in the audio quality of FM apart from the hiss and crackle that used to spoil his enjoyment. While in contrast, DAB is sold as comparitively clear and is 'new technology' confirmed by what he has heard on his spanking new tranny. :doh:
The fight goes on.:fence:
Any one fancy tweeting Mr Fry about this. Maybe we can turn him to the FM side....worth a go.
Regards D S D L
Any one fancy tweeting Mr Fry about this. Maybe we can turn him to the FM side....worth a go.
If you don't try, and do nothing, that won't solve the problem - so tweet away. Uhm, maybe this is the point I have to join twitter?
The double-edged sword of all of this is that Radio 6 Music is the only reason worth bothering with DAB for me, and they're bloody axing that anyway!
Spectral Morn
08-07-2010, 19:50
If you don't try, and do nothing, that won't solve the problem - so tweet away. Uhm, maybe this is the point I have to join twitter?
The double-edged sword of all of this is that Radio 6 Music is the only reason worth bothering with DAB for me, and they're bloody axing that anyway!
Radio 6 has had a stay of execution though the Asian network has not.
Maybe David Price who is on twitter could tweet Mr Fry about the benefits of FM....assuming he thinks FM is better than DAB.
Getting a few celebrities on board would help a lot as getting news about this to the masses is the key to winning this campaign. Problem is some of the media have much to gain so will not be keen on giving this campaign any kind of platform.
Regards D S D L
Ali Tait
08-07-2010, 21:54
Quite frankly the govt. can shove DAB up it's arse...
Radio 6 has had a stay of execution
Oh, so it has - thanks Neil. Would be better on FM though, might get a few more listeners!
Spectral Morn
08-07-2010, 22:44
Oh, so it has - thanks Neil. Would be better on FM though, might get a few more listeners!
If 6 was on FM I would listen to it but its not so I don't.
Regards D S D L
Radio 6 has had a stay of execution though the Asian network has not.
Maybe David Price who is on twitter could tweet Mr Fry about the benefits of FM....assuming he thinks FM is better than DAB.
Getting a few celebrities on board would help a lot as getting news about this to the masses is the key to winning this campaign. Problem is some of the media have much to gain so will not be keen on giving this campaign any kind of platform.
Regards D S D L
Actually I think the media has helped to turn people against the idea of a digital radio switchover by broadcasting total rubbish like 'FM will be switched off in 2015'. If you're a bit of a radio anorak you'll know that's not true but most of the general public believed it and a lot of people were, not surprisingly', a tad pissed off.
So they scored an own goal with this one! :mental:
Spectral Morn
14-07-2010, 15:14
I am at the present time exchanging Emails with the department of Culture about the issue and so far I am somewhat unhappy with the responses to the points I have raised with them.
Today they tell me that a survey done about sound quality between DAB and FM showed that 75% of people asked felt that DAB sounded as good or better than FM. I have asked for details of the number of people asked, as 75% of say 100 is hardly a conclusive batch percentage.
I have also asked if the ministers in question have taken part in an unbiased/level playing field demonstration between DAB and FM.
Hopefully I will get a chance to discuss these matters further.
Regards D S D L
Sue MacGreggor is talking sense of keeping FM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8009472/I-dont-want-to-be-parted-from-FM-digital-radio-doesnt-turn-me-on.html
Reid Malenfant
18-09-2010, 13:34
Tbh i really think you are wasting your time :( While FM has a vastly superior sound compared to DAB broadcasts as they stand now, i don't think for one minute that the governbent are going to listen ;)
It's all about money at the end of the day & take it from me that money talks & the governbent are going to want it even more now! Right now they can sell licenses to broadcast on DAB while they keep the FM band operational. You'll get a load of cobblers statistics reinforcing the publics love of DAB quality :rolleyes: Then when they say they'll shut FM down you can bet your bottom dollar that they will do just that :eyebrows:
The reason being is that they'll then have a whole 20MHz bandwidth which they can then sell licenses for some other kind of broadcasting to go ahead in the old FM band :eek:
To the government it's a win win scenario, they get lots of new DAB licenses sold, people buying new equipment which get the exchequer lots of tax via VAT & then they sell new licenses to new broadcasters to do whatever on the old FM band which means people buy equipment to use on the new whatever it is & the exchequer gets VAT etc etc etc...
It's a no win situation for FM lobbyists unfortunately :doh:
I presume you have all seen the recent report from the Government's Consumer Experts Group?
http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/CEG_Digital_radio_switchover.pdf
It is a report outlining the obstacles facing digital radio switchover and what needs to be done to overcome them to make it an attractive prospect for consumers. For the first time the Government has produced a realistic, unbiased overview of digital radio and how it stands currently in the UK, and for the DAB industry it makes pretty damning reading. The following is a round-up of the report's recommendations, taken from Grant Goddard's radio blog:
"The consumer costs and consumer benefits of digital radio
• A full cost benefit analysis from a user perspective must be carried out as a matter of urgency;
• Consumer benefits need to be clear and demonstrable before an announcement for a digital switchover is made;
• A workable system for the disposing and recycling analogue radios, which consumers are likely to implement must be introduced;
• Emphasis should not be placed on driving down costs unless the sound quality and functionality of cheaper DAB sets are at least equal to analogue;
• There must be more emphasis on improving the basic usability, rather than the advanced functionality, of digital radio to encourage take-up;
• Both the BBC and the commercial sector need to offer new and compelling digital content to convince consumers to adopt digital radio;
• Research into consumers’ willingness to pay and into their concerns and needs relating to digital radio needs to be carried out as a matter of urgency.
Take-up
• The take-up criterion should compare like-for-like listening platforms and measure DAB listening only;
• A digital switchover date should only be announced when no more than 30 per cent of listening remains on analogue;
• The target date for a digital switchover should be revised upwards as 2015 is realistically far too early for the necessary preparations to be put in place for consumers. Any target date set should be looked upon as secondary to consumer issues such as willingness to adopt the technology, voluntary take-up and digital radio reception as an instigator for switchover;
• Measures need to be taken to introduce a more inclusive methodology for measuring take-up.
Coverage
• The fair allocation of coverage build-out costs between the BBC and the commercial sector must be made once build-out plans are agreed;
• The coverage criterion should be measured by signal strength, not just population, so that indoor and mobile reception are considered;
• The coverage criterion must be geographically weighted to ensure rural communities are not left behind;
• The switchover roadmap must include plans for DAB+;
• DAB+ compatible chips must be installed as standard to “future-proof” receivers as a matter of urgency;
• The reception time delay between receivers should be standardised.
Vehicles
• A Digital Radio Switchover date cannot be announced until DAB radios have been standard in vehicles for a minimum of 2 years, in other words by 2015 at the earliest;
• An affordable in-vehicle converter needs to be developed urgently which works with a vehicle’s external aerial, is safe, easy to fit and aesthetically pleasing;
• A switchover date cannot be announced until there is a solution to in-vehicle conversions, providing the majority of motorists with the opportunity to have a digital radio in their vehicle;
• A solution for the continuation of traffic and travel services on FM for a transitional period following digital switchover needs to be agreed;
• An accreditation scheme for dealers and other installers of retrofit digital devices must be developed.
Accessibility
• Digital switchover should not go ahead without suitable equipment being available for all listeners including older and disabled people;
• Digital radios which incorporate voice output technology must be available for blind and partially-sighted people preferably via the mainstream market or, if that is not feasible, through a channel made affordable by Government intervention, such as a help scheme;
• Appropriate information and support on the enhanced features of accessible digital radios should be available from retailers;
• Appropriate usability requirements should be included in minimum receiver specifications and a kitemarking scheme;
• The proposed integrated station guide must be consumer tested before any decision on its inclusion in devices is made.
Consumer information
• A clear and balanced public information campaign needs to be implemented through a trusted body, independent of the industry;
• Once a switchover date is announced, sales of analogue-only radio must stop;
• A post-announcement information campaign to target vulnerable groups should be developed;
• The digital tick should be adopted for digital radio and adapted as necessary;
• A 'scorecard' should be displayed on all products to convey more information about the available features at the point of sale;
• A digital radio pre-purchase checklist should be widely available and at point of sale;
• An effective training and “accredited adviser” scheme needs to be developed for retailers;
• The CEG must be involved in the minimum specification for digital radio;
• The CEG must be involved in the design and development of any public information campaigns.
Consumer support and a help scheme
• Any Digital Radio Switchover must be accompanied by a help scheme to assist those who would find it disproportionately difficult to switch;
• The eligibility criteria of a help scheme should include people registered blind or partially sighted, those on low incomes, the over 65s and those with learning disabilities and other cognitive difficulties such as Alzheimer patients;
• A help scheme for digital radio should provide appropriate accessible equipment and include as many instructional home visits as necessary;
• A help scheme should be publicised early on in the information process on a national level and the publicity should coincide with the start of the national information campaign for a switchover;
• The CEG must be consulted in the preparation of printed material and publicity on the help and support available;
• The engagement of the voluntary sector in providing assistance with a digital radio switchover should be properly supported and funded;
• Government should ensure that charities, such as Wireless for the Blind Fund and W4B, are not undermined financially or strategically by a help scheme or any of its components, as these charities will be left with providing the ongoing of support, assistance and help people need once a help scheme has finished."
In these austere times do you really think that the millions of pounds needed to cover all the above points will be spent? No, I doubt it very much. Far easier to just put the whole DAB issue on indefinite hold and in the meantime IP-based distribution will become cheaper, easier and more attractive with each passing year.
DAB is a zombie platform, a dead format walking. The DAB industry, by refusing to accept that there are big fundamental problems with the format, have done nothing to improve it. Instead they have produced campaigns full of spin & misinformation to try and pretend that those problems don't exist. By not addressing any of these problems they have basically left it too late to save DAB from being consigned to the dustbin of could-have-beens.
It's a real shame as the technology has the potential to be a worthy replacement for analogue. But the way it has been handled in the UK has meant that this will probably never happen.
Thanks.
What an amazing piece of common sense!
hifinutt
26-09-2010, 18:25
interesting that denon have withdrwan their popular dab machine
i am thinking of buying the new bel canto FM1 when it finally gets here from the usa but at 1350 its quite an investment so i hope fm satys a bit longer
Reid Malenfant
26-09-2010, 18:36
Thanks.
What an amazing piece of common sense!
Indeed ;) I'm all for FM transmissions simply because they sound great with a decent signal strength :)
Even though i no longer listen to any radio i'd rather have FM than a 176Kbs DAB transmission :eyebrows:
Lets hope it does stay for a good while longer, my previous post was more to do with the facts of life than what i'd prefer. Like i mentioned previously though, what may be common sense to us might not be common sense to the goverbent :eyebrows: Unfortunately what interests them is money to run the country & as we all should know, they'll bend things to fit what they want when it suits them :doh:
Think weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) that didn't exist in Iraq & the top brass i'm pretty sure knew they didn't, but it never stopped an invasion :eek:
Tony Bliar :eyebrows:
Apologies for the off topic stuff, it was just to make a point.
I see that Grant Goddard has a new book out:
http://blogs.rnw.nl/medianetwork/new-book-predicts-failure-of-dab-digital-radio
I'm sure that'll be essential reading for AOS members ;-)
TopBalcony
30-09-2010, 20:11
Wow, what a thread. But I can't understand why we should care...surely for us the future is on t'interweb...and bandwidths can only increase. Spotify premium sounds mighty good.
Spectral Morn
30-09-2010, 21:00
Wow, what a thread. But I can't understand why we should care...surely for us the future is on t'interweb...and bandwidths can only increase. Spotify premium sounds mighty good.
Because it is about sound quality and choice +DAB does not work properly in cars.
Not every one wants to listen as you do and frankly your choice would not work well for portables.
Have you ever heard a good FM tuner ? If not then you should some time then maybe you will understand.
Regards D S D L
Wow, what a thread. But I can't understand why we should care...surely for us the future is on t'interweb...and bandwidths can only increase. Spotify premium sounds mighty good.
My defence of FM is not for its quality but for its ubiquity and its utility: it's everywhere, it works, it is relatively robust when signal strength is poor.
If Granny's wireless works, don't stop it working; that would be an act of vandalism, and one we can't afford.
I have a very good FM Tuner but the quality of a BBC Radio 3 stream off Freeview or Virgin Cable through a quality DAC is at least as good. I presume the satellite stream would be the same. Internet streams can achieve higher bit rates and sound better.
It has to be remembered that the feed to the FM transmitters is over ageing digital lines what are not even up to CD standard, and that much of the material transmitted these days is from CD or other digital sources. Whatever FM perceived qualities are, they cannot arise from being "pure analogue".
No, as I said, my defence of the FM network is based entirely on practical considerations: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
At home, I will listen to the best internet streams I can find through my excellent Beresford Caiman DAC. My Tuner remains silent. I will flog it. But there ain't nowt wrong with the tranny in the kitchen I use for Radio 4!
TopBalcony
02-10-2010, 17:34
Because it is about sound quality and choice +DAB does not work properly in cars.
Not every one wants to listen as you do and frankly your choice would not work well for portables.
Have you ever heard a good FM tuner ? If not then you should some time then maybe you will understand.
Regards D S D L
Hi Neil. Well, I'm well out of my depth here, but isn't FM severely compressed before it even hits the airwarves (even R3)? I did have a decent FM tuner once and it sounded fine on some stations. However the internet offers the prospect of lossless transmission (available now from some stations). I agree DAB (mp2:lol:)is a disaster: DAB+ may be better but I'm not holding my breath. Personally I'm very happy with speech stations on my kitchen radio (an SB Boom), most of which would otherwise would be only available on MW. There is nothing I would listen to on FM and would be happy to see this sold off (if it took 0.01p off my tax bill). If I'm missing something please let me know.
If I'm missing something please let me know.
How many hundreds of thousands of very serviceable radios would need to be scrapped if FM was turned off? That is the issue for me. If I want quality these days I will stream from the internet; but the great majority are not interested in the last word in quality, they just want a "good sound". FM is good enough.
For portable and car use FM beats a digital format because it degrades progressively. If I am driving round the wrong side of the hill I can put up with "mushy news" for a few minutes. A DAB radio would likely just crack off.
FM delivers. Leave it alone, and save the country a fortune.
TopBalcony
02-10-2010, 18:02
FM delivers. Leave it alone, and save the country a fortune.[/QUOTE]
I completely sympathise with this. As long as the argument is that it is worth keeping because its what we happen to have rather than that it is better than what we could have. On the other hand, maybe the country could do with a bit of economic stimulation:)
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