Amplifier Misery

[Jac Hawk]

So as some of you know i've recently purchased a Primaluna Evo400i unfortunately i bought it just as lockdown came into force and it's in Edinburgh i'm in Chorley, no big deal i thought 3 or 4 weeks and we'll be back to normal, i could have had it posted but i'd rather not chance it anyway we are now upwards of 6 or 7 weeks into lockdown travel is ok in England now but not into Scotland and as i recall the borders police are particularly shit hot so no way am i going to chance a trip, if i was an adviser to lets say ohhhh Boris Johnson i might, but as an average Joe it's not worth the risk.

Anyway i'm a bit peeved but as i still have my Marantz PM66 kis i can still listen to some choonz, that was until this morning, turned everything on as usual and half way through an LP it just stopped, it lights up but not a whisper out of the speakers, i don't get the click 4 or 5 seconds after turning it on any more as it turns the output on nothing, arrrrgghhh fuck you hifi gods.

So not knowing when i'm going to be able to travel to bonny Scotland for the PL, it's left me with a dilemma do i sit it out and wait for the PL? do i try to get the Marantz fixed? or do i buy another amp in the meantime?

[Opti-cal]

It's for situation such as this why I 'need' three amps (and they're just the ones t'other half knows about) in reserve. . . I've thought about selling them but what if the worst happens . . . and then happens again . . .

Of course as I have them I've never actually needed them (fingers crossed) but I'm absolutely sure (and you can blame the hifi gods for this again) that if I had not taken such precautions, I would no doubt need them.

I think that is pretty much the definition of sods law . . .

To not beat around the proverbial bush I'd buy a 'stop gap' amp you are happy to listen to in the mean time. Funds permitting etc.

These little Class D's can be pretty good, delivered quickly (Prime) and are cheap for what its worth. I've got one (okay two) for delivering a line level to a pair of subs and it actually sounds better than it has any right to.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DollaTek-TPA3116-Digital-Amplifier-Pre-level/dp/B07KPSYHWF/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=class+d+amplifier&qid=1590509358&sr=8-3

[walpurgis]

Maybe there's a kind member in your neck of the woods who can lend you an amp for the time being?

[walpurgis]

These little Class D's can be pretty good, delivered quickly (Prime) and are cheap for what its worth. I've got one (okay two) for delivering a line level to a pair of subs and it actually sounds better than it has any right to.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DollaTek-TPA3116-Digital-Amplifier-Pre-level/dp/B07KPSYHWF/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=class+d+amplifier&qid=1590509358&sr=8-3

I have one. They work well!

[Jac Hawk]

Thinking about it, there's loads of old amps at work i could use, but i've seen a Sony TA-F700ES in mint condition for what i think is a reasonable £230, i'm very tempted:eyebrows::eyebrows:

[Puffin]

It could be a tired relay, if it is relay switched. Sometimes the contacts get oxidised. Some of them have removable covers and you can squirt some contact cleaner in there. I have also read that even giving them a few sharp taps with a non-conductive implement.....like the end of a pencil can bring get them working. I assume you have checked if there are any blown internal fuses.

[Firebottle]

If the relay doesn't even click it's unlikely to be bad contacts.

For info I have a diamond encrusted scapula that I use for cleaning relay contacts, particularly output mute relays in power amps, works really well.

[Jac Hawk]

Whatever it is i don't have the time, the tools or the patience to be farting about with an old amp, i'm tempted with the Sony though, which looks like a bit of a beast and unlike my Marantz which i've read can be a bit brittle the Sony ES amps of this era are bomb proof.

[scotty38]

If the relay doesn't even click it's unlikely to be bad contacts.

For info I have a diamond encrusted scapula that I use for cleaning relay contacts, particularly output mute relays in power amps, works really well.

Is that so you can get your shoulder behind it?

[Patrick Dixon]

Stick a kid in the back and if you get stopped in Scotland say you were just testing you eyes and got lost on the way to Barnards Castle.

You might cop a bit of flack, but Boris will back you.

[RMutt]

Haha. Good idea. When stopped, just say, ‘Sorry officer I was using my Cummings sense’.

[Puffin]

There is a known male condition that is sometimes referred to as "short cummings":D

[Pharos]

In your position I would, rather than buy a stop gap, use this as an opportunity to see if I can get an even better amp.

[Shovel_Knight]

Whatever it is i don't have the time, the tools or the patience to be farting about with an old amp, i'm tempted with the Sony though, which looks like a bit of a beast and unlike my Marantz which i've read can be a bit brittle the Sony ES amps of this era are bomb proof.

It depends on your luck, I had a Sony ES amp which had a ton of cold solder joints - after struggling with it for a while I reflowed all solder joints I could get to without total disassembly and sold it cheaply (I told the buyer about this problem but he was OK with that)

[hifinutt]

no prima luna dealers nearer chorley ?

[hifi_dave]

I don't see the problem with sending it. I sold one, last week and it was sent to the customer.

[Jac Hawk]

In your position I would, rather than buy a stop gap, use this as an opportunity to see if I can get an even better amp.

i'd have to spend considerably more than a few hundred quid to top the primaluna i think

I've had a few bad experiences with delivery firms, i'd rather drive up when Scotland allows us in Dave

[Jac Hawk]

no prima luna dealers nearer chorley ?

You know i'm not sure, but the deal i got from HiFi corner was fantastic so i don't want to mess them around.

[mikeyb]

You know i'm not sure, but the deal i got from HiFi corner was fantastic so i don't want to mess them around.

Give Struan a call I’m sure he’d do his best to help you out and possibly have it delivered. HiFi Corner is where I bought my Primaluna power amp from and dealing with them was great.

[Pigmy Pony]

Mike, I have a perfectly good integrated here (BOW Wazoo XL) which is doing absolutely bugger all at the moment - you can borrow for as long as you like, till your new pride 'n' joy arrives :)

[Scorps]

I’ve also a old Bryston 8b st power amp you welcome to borrow can come wi densen pre if u don’t have a pre

[Jac Hawk]

Thanks for the offers guys, i've gone and bought a Sony ES integrated amp circa 1989 which i got very cheap so i couldn't really pass it up it should arrive early next week and in the mean time i've got a loan of a HH power amp and passive pre

[Haselsh1]

Lovin' the humour in this thread and sorry to the OP but the sense of humour here is first class unlike the postage on the amp.

[Jac Hawk]

So i've just got this as a stopgap and i must say it sounds sweeeeet.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49963975787_f0306270a5_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j89rhp)IMG_2346 (https://flic.kr/p/2j89rhp) by mike davis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185433896@N07/), on Flickrhttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49963975722_d5b9e4ebae_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j89rgh)IMG_2347 (https://flic.kr/p/2j89rgh) by mike davis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185433896@N07/), on Flickrhttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49963192208_8dfddf2754_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j85qmq)IMG_2348 (https://flic.kr/p/2j85qmq) by mike davis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185433896@N07/), on Flickrhttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49963192153_77e90fd08c_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j85qkt)IMG_2345 (https://flic.kr/p/2j85qkt) by mike davis (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185433896@N07/), on Flickr

[Lawrence001]

I've just bought a stopgap as well (top one, to replace the previous stopgap below it [emoji23] )https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/fe282808b5ddf6887a842c384150c29c.jpg

[Jac Hawk]

I've just bought a stopgap as well (top one, to replace the previous stopgap below it [emoji23] )

Yeah I've come to realise that a spare amp is a must you literally never know what's going to get in the way of your enjoyment.

As you can see from the photo's the Sony is in good condition and they where taken just after unboxing it in my kitchen, i've cleaned it since and i must say the old Sony gear especially the ES range was built to last, everything feels smooth and precise, there's no crackles or noise from any of the switches or buttons and this beast is the best part of 30 years old.

Sound wise this is a powerful amp, you can tell by the way it grips the speakers keeping the big Kralk 12 inch bass units in check, reportedly this is an 80w into 8ohm amp but from the amount i need to turn the volume control it's way more, previously i had a HH 150w pa amp running them and i needed it turned up a lot more than the Sony to get the same amount of volume. I'm not one for bass and treble adjustment and thankfully it has a source direct button that bypasses the tone and balance controls, i'm not sure if i can hear the difference but my thinking is it's a shorter signal path so it should be better, overall i'm very happy with the noise it makes which is best described as neutral, my old Marantz was a bit brighter sounding i think. the only thing i'm surprised about is the lack of any remote control which is odd for an early 90's Jap amp.

So once the Primaluna finds its way to me, i'll get the Sony properly checked and serviced and it will have its spot on the reserve bench just in case the unthinkable happens again.

[walpurgis]

Yeah I've come to realise that a spare amp is a must you literally never know what's going to get in the way of your enjoyment.

Keep a little TPA3116 mini amp handy. It sounds decent, drives most speakers no bother and is tiny, so can be tucked away when not needed.

[Lawrence001]

Keep a little TPA3116 mini amp handy. It sounds decent, drives most speakers no bother and is tiny, so can be tucked away when not needed.I've got one of those too, and an Ice power ASP1000 power amp with Glasshouse stepped attenuator. In fact I have several stopgaps but no "main" amp [emoji23]

[Jac Hawk]

Keep a little TPA3116 mini amp handy. It sounds decent, drives most speakers no bother and is tiny, so can be tucked away when not needed.

Is that a class D Geoff? The Sony is anything but small but as i've said in other posts it was a bargain so i'll hang on to it. i've noticed HiFi gear in general on ebay and other sites is either not selling or selling at a lot less than before the lockdown started.

[walpurgis]

Is that a class D Geoff? The Sony is anything but small but as i've said in other posts it was a bargain so i'll hang on to it. i've noticed HiFi gear in general on ebay and other sites is either not selling or selling at a lot less than before the lockdown started.

Yes, it is.

I bought a couple from China, plus suitable power supplies. I'm very pleased with them.

[Firebottle]

...... reportedly this is an 80w into 8ohm amp but from the amount i need to turn the volume control it's way more, previously i had a HH 150w pa amp running them and i needed it turned up a lot more than the Sony to get the same amount of volume.

This seems to be a recurring belief/myth that the volume control position has a relation to the power output rating of an amplifier.

The amp maximum output is fixed by the power supply of the amp, if the spec states 80W that is the max, you can't get more.
The volume control position is only an indication and control of the gain of the amp, not the output power.

If the amp has lots of internal gain the vol rotation will be small for a fixed sound level.
If the amp has lower internal gain the vol rotation will be greater for a fixed sound level.

Hope this gives clarification and busts the myth.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

And further to that, the figure of merit you have to know is the power amplifiers sensitivity, and still important but slightly less so, the fixed resistance
at the amplifiers input. The resistance loading should not be less than 10k

Some examples Quad 303 / 405 require 500mv to deliver their full output Quad 306 375mv - all are suitable for passive attenuation

Where the power amplifier requires 1.5v ( 1500mv ) or more for full output it is simply limiting the way it attaches to other equipment, and much caution is needed
from purchasers, to assess why exactly this approach is advocated. You will usually find the manufacturer also insisting you purchase their pre amplifier product.

Consumers need not to be held to ransom like this, and can instead choose amplifier sensitivity to match a wide range of passive and other forms.

Quads approach has been outstanding in practice for over 50 years or more to match their equipment to other equipment, and needs to be adopted as industry standard

[anthonyTD]

Quad 2 input Sensitivity: 1.4V rms for 15W output!!!
.

Consumers need not to be held to ransom like this, and can instead choose amplifier sensitivity to match a wide range of passive and other forms.

Quads approach has been outstanding in practice for over 50 years or more to match their equipment to other equipment, and needs to be adopted as industry standard

[Marco]

So as some of you know i've recently purchased a Primaluna Evo400i unfortunately i bought it just as lockdown came into force and it's in Edinburgh i'm in Chorley, no big deal i thought 3 or 4 weeks and we'll be back to normal, i could have had it posted but i'd rather not chance it anyway we are now upwards of 6 or 7 weeks into lockdown travel is ok in England now but not into Scotland and as i recall the borders police are particularly shit hot so no way am i going to chance a trip, if i was an adviser to lets say ohhhh Boris Johnson i might, but as an average Joe it's not worth the risk.

Anyway i'm a bit peeved but as i still have my Marantz PM66 kis i can still listen to some choonz, that was until this morning, turned everything on as usual and half way through an LP it just stopped, it lights up but not a whisper out of the speakers, i don't get the click 4 or 5 seconds after turning it on any more as it turns the output on nothing, arrrrgghhh fuck you hifi gods.

So not knowing when i'm going to be able to travel to bonny Scotland for the PL, it's left me with a dilemma do i sit it out and wait for the PL? do i try to get the Marantz fixed? or do i buy another amp in the meantime?

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear about your amp woes, hope you get things sorted soon:)

Marco.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Quad 2 input Sensitivity: 1.4V rms for 15W output!!!

Which finished production around 1967, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Electroacoustics with introduction of both 50E (1966) and 303 (1967) power amplifiers
making now,over 50 years, that Quad has maintained sensible levels of sensitivity in their equipment, as I had stated
the only exception might be the FM3 tuner, which was perhaps too low,

[Jac Hawk]

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear about your amp woes, hope you get things sorted soon:)

Marco.

Normal service has been resumed mate, got a Sony 530ES amp in very good condition as a stop gap / spare, these things deserve their reputation, it's literally built like a tank and it grips and controls the new Kralks very well indeed. The second I can cross the border without incurring the wrath of the Scottish rozzers i'll be on my way to Portobello to pick up the Primaluna.

[anthonyTD]

If you want to be pedantic, your quote, not mine! :eek:


Quads approach has been outstanding in practice for over 50 years or more
Which finished production around 1967, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Electroacoustics with introduction of both 50E (1966) and 303 (1967) power amplifiers
making now,over 50 years, that Quad has maintained sensible levels of sensitivity in their equipment, as I had stated
the only exception might be the FM3 tuner, which was perhaps too low,

[Light Dependant Resistor]

If you want to be pedantic, your quote, not mine! :eek:

2020 minus 1967 = 53 ... which is more than 50 years.... I am not being pedantic rather just pointing out my original statement was quite correct.
"Quads approach has been outstanding in practice for over 50 years or more to match their equipment to other equipment, and needs to be adopted as industry standard"

[Jac Hawk]

2020 minus 1967 = 53 ... which is more than 50 years.... I am not being pedantic rather just pointing out my original statement was quite correct.
"Quads approach has been outstanding in practice for over 50 years or more to match their equipment to other equipment, and needs to be adopted as industry standard"

Ooohhh are we going to get a witty response............over to you Anthony..........:fence:

[anthonyTD]

:eek: no point, i'l just do the usual :brickwall:
Ooohhh are we going to get a witty response............over to you Anthony..........:fence: