Audio Note Push Pull and Tannoys

[Ella65]

I think half the World is involved in trying to sort my amp and Speaker match (even the wife is offering sympathy) so I thought it was only fair to ask AOS.

I ve re housed Some Tannoy Cheviots in 100L cabs, I thought they’d mate perfectly with my lovely Audio Note Oto SE. Although the Oto does a lot right it just doesn’t have the clout to get the drivers going, particularly on Rock or denser music.

I ve had lots of suggestions for SS, Class A, D etc but I particularly like the Oto flavour. To that end I ve picked up an Audio Note M1 pre. and looking to settle on power amp.
I ve seen Audio Note make a Push Pull version of their P2 which kicks out 20 watts, but there doesn’t appear to be much love amongst AN folk for PP stuff, which I’m guessing is down to them matching with AN speakers.
Has anybody heard any AN PP stuff? Is it any good and will it improve over my Oto SE 10 watts. Is it manufactured just because it’s cheaper?
Will it drive my Cheviots?

[paulf-2007]

Tannoy say 20 -250w amplifier. I doubt an audio note pp would do the business. A driver that can handle 250w and 91db will most likely need solid state. Never found valve amps other than sets into very efficient drivers to be anything special. In fact I'm done with valves altogether and gone solid state 10w into 10" 99db single drivers.

[Ella65]

I think mine are 89db and 60 watt, but I’m no expert I just own a pair?

[WESTLOWER]

A Radford STA25 or the STA15 would be absolutely perfect for the Cheviots.
You do not need to go Solid state.
Stick with the tubes

[Pharos]

Did valves from '66 to '71, and then used a Nelson-Jones SS 10W into Tannoy 15 Lancs, and it was loud enough to cause ear damage. One channel went faulty due to a manufactured BC107 fault, and I substituted a friend's Lowther EL84 amp, but the bass was wooly.

I cannot understand why there is adhesion to valve technology, and any preference for valve mid I would suggest be the result of the same failing as that which softens the bass.

[WESTLOWER]

Did valves from '66 to '71, and then used a Nelson-Jones SS 10W into Tannoy 15 Lancs, and it was loud enough to cause ear damage. One channel went faulty due to a manufactured BC107 fault, and I substituted a friend's Lowther EL84 amp, but the bass was wooly.

I cannot understand why there is adhesion to valve technology, and any preference for valve mid I would suggest be the result of the same failing as that which softens the bass.

I would suggest you were pairing the wrong amp and speakers if you feel you have soft and wooly bass response. It’s not a signature of any valve amp and speaker synergy I have the privilege of listening to... :scratch:

[Opti-cal]

Did valves from '66 to '71, and then used a Nelson-Jones SS 10W into Tannoy 15 Lancs, and it was loud enough to cause ear damage. One channel went faulty due to a manufactured BC107 fault, and I substituted a friend's Lowther EL84 amp, but the bass was wooly.

I cannot understand why there is adhesion to valve technology, and any preference for valve mid I would suggest be the result of the same failing as that which softens the bass.

I think you can be more likely to end up with the 'wooly' bass as described trying to pair valve amps and speakers. It's something SS (in my experience) is more forgiving of. BUT, get the right valve amp AND the right speakers (synergy!) and you can achieve floor shattering bass which to my ears can sound more organic than SS. My 300b SET in parallel configuration paired with my Cambridge Acoustic Grand Master's could crack the paint on the walls.

[Frankyc2003]

+1

My 2 pennies worth. I have an AN OTO PP (latest model) and with its 12W (IIRC), I have no trouble creating earth shattering bass for my room (and my room is small, less than 10sqm) with little stand mount speakers (Triangle Comet ES).

Of course you need synergy between components but don't forget about the room: the size of the drivers and the amount of free air you will need to push around to create bass. The bigger the room, the bigger the driver, the larger the amount of power needed to move those cones.

So per se, your Tannoys might be under powered as was being said, but only in relation to your listening room.

But on the subject of AN Push Pull design, don't assume they are of a lesser grade than their SE counterparts. All the AN stuff I owned was of the best quality.

[graham67]

Agree audio note oto is not well suited to the bigger hpd tannoys, I tried it into my 15" and was not a good match.

I would be looking for more like 40w of push pull. Even then, power supply will have to he decent to get grip on bottom end which can sound woolly on tannoys. I suspect the 50w Rogers e20 integrated pp built by audio note would be worth a try. Its a lovely amp
Else get something like a rogue audio 88 ? , it's a powerhouse with real grip and drive. Very good value second hand. Jack non smoking man used to have one and would be worth asking his opinion.

[WESTLOWER]

I’ll say it again
Radford STA25 will fit your criteria!!

[AD Audio]

I’ll say it again
Radford STA25 will fit your criteria!! You won't do better than a Radford sta 25 with these speakers. If you heard Westlower's you wouldn't even be asking the question! It's not as simple as valve versus solid state with these Tannoys. Too much damping-Class D, solid state-and they clam up. Too little damping-too low damping factor and /or feedback-and the bass will disappear like a toilet roll in Tesco's during lockdown. So you need push pull, running Class AB, with the right damping factor for these speakers to show their best. There are solid state amps that will do the job, but they won't better the Radford /Tannoy combo

[spikeyfaz]

You won't do better than a Radford sta 25 with these speakers. If you heard Westlower's you wouldn't even be asking the question! It's not as simple as valve versus solid state with these Tannoys. Too much damping-Class D, solid state-and they clam up. Too little damping-too low damping factor and /or feedback-and the bass will disappear like a toilet roll in Tesco's during lockdown. So you need push pull, running Class AB, with the right damping factor for these speakers to show their best. There are solid state amps that will do the job, but they won't better the Radford /Tannoy combo

If a valve amp is not a practical proposition, please can you let us know what solid state amps will do the job? New or secondhand.

Cheers
Mike

[hifinutt]

How does one get a Radford these days ?

[scotty38]

How does one get a Radford these days ?

Drop Will at Radford Revival an email is the way to do it.

[krugdoktor]

Here is the link: https://www.radfordrevival.co.uk/

[hifinutt]

thanks guys

[paulf-2007]

I think you can be more likely to end up with the 'wooly' bass as described trying to pair valve amps and speakers. It's something SS (in my experience) is more forgiving of. BUT, get the right valve amp AND the right speakers (synergy!) and you can achieve floor shattering bass which to my ears can sound more organic than SS. My 300b SET in parallel configuration paired with my Cambridge Acoustic Grand Master's could crack the paint on the walls.
Quantity of bass should not be confused with quality of bass. Until recently I had not heard the quality my Lii audio crystal 10 can do driven by my Bakoon 11r.

[Opti-cal]

Quantity of bass should not be confused with quality of bass. Until recently I had not heard the quality my Lii audio crystal 10 can do driven by my Bakoon 11r.

Oh yes absolutely agreed there, however to me its quite obvious if you simply have 'quantity' without 'quality', it sounds absolutely awful. Often culminating in one note boom which smears so much of the rest of the frequency range the speakers are attempting to deliver.

When its dialed in properly you should be able to detect bass guitar plucks maybe 10-15hz apart.

I've always lusted after some Bakoon stuff incidentally. Always look as interesting as I'm sure they sound (never actually heard any) . . . .

[chris@panteg]

The puresound 2a3 which I use is said to be really good with big Tannoys, I've not heard it myself though.
But it's an 18w push pull amp with plenty of grunt.

[Haselsh1]

I have only just solved a similar issue. I was using a PrimaLuna pre/power combo running EL34's at a max of 40 Watts per channel into KEF R5's and there was just so little grunt or slam. The problem was immediately solved by switching to an Usher R1.5 power amp. I now have all of the grunt and slam I could want.

[martian sunrise]

do tannoys respond differently to ss single ended amps, when compared to SE valve amps?

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Yes, valve amps are better with high impedance speakers typically over 10 ohms, whereas solid state have better overall specifications,
and suit speakers 10 ohms or less, if we draw a line in the sand at 10 ohms http://education.lenardaudio.com/en/14_valve_amps_7.html

Presently almost every amplifier is specified into a resistance load - not a loudspeaker. Current drive is the direction needed in amplifiers
to then match to loudspeakers. https://www.current-drive.info/

[AJSki2fly]

I used to drive a pair of Tannoy Legacy Ardens with my Allnic T1500 mk2, rated at approximately 13w/channel, this one is designed for 4 or 8 ohm with a switch to select which. It used to drive them very well with little problem and loads of grunt.