View Full Version : Freeview Stream versus FM
At the moment have set up my Quad 77 Stack driving some rather old and woolly edged Goodmans Maxim IIs; and I have a Beresford 7510 (now the oldest and cheapest model) hooked into the Quad amp and taking an optical link from the TV.
Even with these undiscerning speakers I can hear how much the Freeview stream (192 kbit/s MP2 I think) betters the Quad FM Tuner. I am almost within sight of the Isle of Wight Transmitter, and the tuner shows maximum signal strength.
I knew this to be the case, but have had the tuner boxed for quite a while.
My Squeezebox is in Nicosia, but it would be interesting optically to link my daughter' Macbook to the DAC and try some internet streaming. That should be even better. (If I had the Caiman here I could USB it to my Windows Laptop, but the Caiman too is in Nicosia.)
At the moment have set up my Quad 77 Stack driving some rather old and woolly edged Goodmans Maxim IIs; and I have a Beresford 7510 (now the oldest and cheapest model) hooked into the Quad amp and taking an optical link from the TV.
Even with these undiscerning speakers I can hear how much the Freeview stream (192 kbit/s MP2 I think) betters the Quad FM Tuner. I am almost within sight of the Isle of Wight Transmitter, and the tuner shows maximum signal strength.
I knew this to be the case, but have had the tuner boxed for quite a while.
My Squeezebox is in Nicosia, but it would be interesting optically to link my daughter' Macbook to the DAC and try some internet streaming. That should be even better. (If I had the Caiman here I could USB it to my Windows Laptop, but the Caiman too is in Nicosia.)
Very interesting Brian,
You have managed to do what I said I would do several months back, but have failed to 'come up with the goods'. Well done.
Could you elaborate a little and describe in what way the 192kbps Freeview digital betters the FM VHF transmission? May I ask what make of Freeview box you use?
Regards
I am using the Freeview Tuner in the TV - a Samsung.
Better? Less background noise. More clarity. (Better soundstage - though not noticeable with the Maxims, only with my Quarts)
Internet streams are better still. Many offer higher bitrates and all use more modern CODECs.
If buying a Freeview Box you must have a digital output - usually Toslink.
Similar quality can be had from satellite receivers (Sky or Freesat) or from a Virgin Cable Box - again, provided the boxes have a digital out to feed a decent DAC. Before I moved house I had a Virgin Cable Box, the analogue out produced a sound about the same quality at the FM Tuner - feeding a Beresford DAC improved quality by a significant margin.
I am using the Freeview Tuner in the TV - a Samsung.
Better? Less background noise. More clarity. (Better soundstage - though not noticeable with the Maxims, only with my Quarts)
Internet streams are better still. Many offer higher bitrates and all use more modern CODECs.
If buying a Freeview Box you must have a digital output - usually Toslink.
Similar quality can be had from satellite receivers (Sky or Freesat) or from a Virgin Cable Box - again, provided the boxes have a digital out to feed a decent DAC. Before I moved house I had a Virgin Cable Box, the analogue out produced a sound about the same quality at the FM Tuner - feeding a Beresford DAC improved quality by a significant margin.
Thanks for that Brian,
I have a Pace freeview box, bought about 5 years ago. It has a digital output. At the moment the (analogue) audio output is fed into a Quad 33/303 combination and thence to a pair of Eltax speakers. I'm thinking however of getting myself a Beresford DAC and the Quad units serviced/upgraded.
Regards
The Grand Wazoo
04-07-2010, 20:03
Your experience is a bit different from the results I got with my experiments Brian. I tried this a few months ago, & again more recently after I had some adjustments done to both TV & FM aerials. I tried a few FM tuners, comparing them to the output of our Freeview box feeding both my 7520 and one of the inputs to my Accuphase DAC via an optical cable. All signals were fed into my usual main system pre and power amps.
My preference was always for the FM signal (pretty ropey signal area for both FM & digital - the area I live in has already been fully switched over to digital TV).
I listened to BBC Radios 3 & 4.
I can't say our Freeview box is of particularly high quality (it's a no-name generic model). The FM signal was received via my Accuphase T101, my MkII Troughline, and both a Yamaha CR1020 and Pioneer SX440 (1970's receivers) via their tape outputs. This latter model is not exactly high end super-fi either!
In all cases, I preferred the FM signal. I thought the digital was thinner, brighter and with poorer stereo information, but I will say that the Freeview sound was streets ahead of any DAB radio performance in my memory.
Interesting.
Another way forward is a Squeezebox Touch
https://www.ripcaster.co.uk/node/477
Some are reporting that the DAC in the Touch is a good bit better than previous models. I have been meaning to ask Themis's opinion (are you watching Themis?).
The Touch would give you amazing access to high quality radio from around the world; and if you rip your CDs to a computer it will play those for you.
I have a Squeezebox Classic which acts as Radio Tuner and CD Streamer. It feeds the Beresford DAC which also acts as a Pre Amp. The TV also feeds the DAC so I maximise sound quality for TV. If you have only a Squeezebox touch you are limited to feeding the analogue output from the TV into the 33 Preamp - that's OK, but digital out into a DAC is better.
Your needs may be different, especially if you are still playing LPs.
I think the 33/303 can be upgraded to a very high standard - but Eltax speakers? Not exceptional?
Another way forward is a Squeezebox Touch
https://www.ripcaster.co.uk/node/477
Some are reporting that the DAC in the Touch is a good bit better than previous models. I have been meaning to ask Themis's opinion (are you watching Themis?).
The Touch would give you amazing access to high quality radio from around the world; and if you rip your CDs to a computer it will play those for you.
I have a Squeezebox Classic which acts as Radio Tuner and CD Streamer. It feeds the Beresford DAC which also acts as a Pre Amp. The TV also feeds the DAC so I maximise sound quality for TV. If you have only a Squeezebox touch you are limited to feeding the analogue output from the TV into the 33 Preamp - that's OK, but digital out into a DAC is better.
Your needs may be different, especially if you are still playing LPs.
I think the 33/303 can be upgraded to a very high standard - but Eltax speakers? Not exceptional?
Agreed, but they were free and work very well as an alternative audio system to that of the TV! If I were to use a Freeview/Beresford DAC to replace my FM tuner, then it would run through a Quad 44/405/ESL system, or whatever else I use in the future.
Regards
Rob Holt, Moderator here
http://www.zerogain.com/forum/
Uses a v-DAC in his Quad Electrostatic system.
No convenient source switching, no volume control and no phone amp, but it may be worth considering.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-DAC/V-DAC.asp
£140
Ali Tait
04-07-2010, 20:42
I haven't had an SB3,but do have a Touch,and yes,even as a standalone unit it is very good,though it does sound better through my AN dac.A no brainer for the money really.
Yes, if someone wanted just an internet radio tuner the Touch would be a good buy.
If they wanted to stream ripped CDs as well, then great.
I think they would need to install Squeezeserve on a computer in the house to get the best bitrates.
You guy's FM must be better than in the US unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I've thought that even 128K streams were better than FM.
You guy's FM must be better than in the US unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I've thought that even 128K streams were better than FM.
Some 128k sreams are very good. Try Radio Swiss Classic.
Quality may be to do as much with how much the signal compressed or otherwise messed with before transmission as with the bitrate or CODEC.
BBC FM transmissions are delivered to the transmitters by old 14 (13) bit digital links anyway, so there is no "analogue purity" in BBC FM Radio.
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