Amplifier pageant

[Sansiiro]

I decided to get a new amplifier.

Audiolab 6000A (800 eur) has caught my eye,
as well as Marantz PM8005 (1050 eur).

I also quite like the idea of a 18kg Onkyo A9070 (1200 eur),
though this model is about 8 years old and no more in production.

I have heard the first two (sound similar), but not the Onkyo.
Would you believe the pricing to be justified or could you see Audiolab or Marantz punch
above the quality-level of more expensive yet older Onkyo?

I am very happy for any feedback, say if perhaps you have one of them and you feel that it has a great value.
Or if you can even compare, or insert another model into the pool, in the price-range up 1200 eur.

[hifi_dave]

Rega Elex-r and money in the bank.

[Fullrange]

Totally agree.
Get the Rega.

[Sansiiro]

Yes it looks well rated and I also like that it has no dac nor bluetooth.
The lack of headphone socket might be a problem though.

[antonio]

If you are planning on using those beautiful Estelons in your avatar, I would definitely go with the Onkyo from your suggestions. I know Estelons are quite easy to drive, but are better with a few more watts, my only concern with the Rega would be power, but if you don't listen at higher levels I'm sure would be fine. My other suggestion class D, something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1200W-Power-Amplifier-Bang-Olufsen-B-O-ICEpower-ICEedge-1200AS2/133402347446?hash=item1f0f6647b6:g:rmMAAOSwVQxesFu 1 with a passive pre. There is of course the vintage route https://www.ebay.co.uk/myb/WatchList
Good luck in your search Veiko

[Sansiiro]

I would like to own these beautiful Estelons but sadly I don't, picture is taken in the centre of a famous composer, where they use
Devialet amplifier for these (and an ipad for streaming and conversion :O)

I am leaning towards Onkyo anyway, since some extra power is always nice to have. I will check Onkyo-enthusiasts group on facebook for
more info. I have a problem with Rega, since it does not have headphone option. I guess the Marantz is always an option, I have heard it
and it sounds good, and can also be used as a preamp if needed. Thanks for the recommendations, going preamp+poweramp might also be an option.

[Sansiiro]

And the winner is!..... Marantz PM8005 wupp-di-dooo!!

Got a good price, it is time to listen and reflect.

[hifinutt]

great , enjoy and let us know how you get on

[Sansiiro]

Well. The encounter with this Marantz was very brief, yet very educational.
I had read that this Marantz has sound that is warm, laid-back, and smooth, but I really did not know what that meant. Once I heard it myself, I realized that I do not like it. Don’t get me wrong, I think it's a great amp. It has a great soundstage, spacious sound, somewhat magical even. But I have returned it now due to this warmth, smoothness and laid-back-ness.

However it got me wondering - perhaps I am stuck in the old? It happens a lot, that how we first experience certain music, it becomes a standard, and further interpretations, once they stray too far, can be taken as blasphemy.

And we can take it even further. It is not only about us liking or not liking a certain play or tone. The tone, over time, will also receive a different reception in our brain, it will be PERCEIVED differently. Many musicians have become deaf in one ear - but yet they become to perceive the sound as balanced, over time. It is the brain, that adjusts the perception. I believe, that if from now on all the high frequencies in the world will be cut down a notch, yeah, it will be bad for some time, but after a while, we would return into thinking, that these violins are kicking a**!

This is a problem that is particularly evident when switching gear. And for that reason I believe a lot of engineers say that they don’t like AB-tests. The brain needs time. Perhaps I am poisoned by this Onkyo. Somehow I believe that if I could have had a few months with this Marantz, I would have became to love it.
But the decision was made.

I now was able to bring home Audiolab 6000A, for testing, and I like it more.
I have used Onkyo A-9130 so far, and I became to think, that I need something better, to the point that I was so discontent, that I was rushing to the store. But now, I kinda miss the way its brightness and sharpness drilled into the brain. As the Audiolab, to my understanding, is also a bit laid-back and warm(er). Again, I like it a lot, it has lot more detail, and it’s sound is more pleasant. I have the weekend to listen to it now, but I am not sure I will get past this brightness and sharpness problem, and I am not willing to spend my hard-earned money for something that is not a full improvement (on my Onkyo).

There is also a peculiar observation, which I first made when I upgraded the power cable. About the sound becoming more accessible. It is funny to me, with Audiolab it is yet MORE accessible, and now I even feel, that it is TOO accessible. Let me try and explain this. I feel like the music and the artist are coming so close to me, that it is ruining the mystique. That must be a good thing, but somehow I also feel like the music is losing it’s importance. Perhaps I have less left for my imagination, which sees the artist as some kind of a god in ivory tower. It becomes more like an everyday dude.

But back to the struggle. I guess unless I hear something that keeps this brightness and sharpness and yet adds detail, space, depth and so for, I am also contemplating going for another Onkyo, A-9150, which is cheaper yet. Spend the rest on cables.

Do you believe that sharpness and brightness is something that class D offers?

What I also observed is that the very first songs with this Audiolab 6000A (it is used for demo in the store, but the merchant said, they hardly ever listen to it) had a strong background white noise present. This threw me off quite a bit. But after having listened to amp for few hours and returning to these same songs, the background was cleaner. So there is that.

Not to mention endless possibilities of detecting another culprits in the system, where nothing at the moment has untouchable status, synergy and cost are to be considered.

Luckily I have now the whole weekend to test this amplifier, and it’s a good thing that I could voice my thoughts here, because there are a lot of surprises and I am frankly a bit stressed out about this situation. Thank you for your time.

[hifinutt]

"Do you believe that sharpness and brightness is something that class D offers?"

all class D amps sound different , i use 2 icepower amps , both are different , but they are dynamic , warm , realistic and extremely good . hence why so many manufacturers are using them

don`t get too stressed and allow everything to settle down before you judge it. get plenty of hours on the clock and the sound can change a lot

[Pharos]

I empathise with many of your points Veiko, having mused over what is going on in general with my involvement in Hi-Fi and music.

Not only do our ears change, as a result of, (and I have substantial) hearing loss, but our brains change; most of hearing is brain processing, and as a result is learning based.

One can assume that one's ears change little in a an hour or day, and so they are considered relatively constant, but when we change equipment we may hear a difference and wonder which is more correct. Often neither is so, but just different; our entire nervous system is configured to perceive changes.

IMO) amplifiers show far less difference than other parts of a system, particularly of course speakers, and it may be possible that a better amp shows up a failing with a speaker producing a result which is less pleasant.

I now have a system with what I consider to be the best tweeters I have heard, and on R2 a little while ago the top was excruciating.
I'm sure it was a combination of FM and the recording. (my amps are Icepower except for above 2.5kHz, and is then AB).

When we listen to music we hear what is objectively present to a large degree, but what gives us the great pleasure is what we ascribe, associate, assign, and attribute to it. We project onto it our own emotional empathies, and our collections become a repository of our projected emotional responses.

When I first realised this I thought that we were all being conned because what we experienced as great pleasure was actually based on our life experiences, and in our heads, so why should we pay for it.

Because it informs us of our own true self, much of which hidden and may be buried deep in our minds, often due to partitioning, compartmentalisation and repression; it tells us about our inner self, it is a catalyst to self discovery.

[Macca]

What speakers are you using Veiko?

[Gazjam]

This.


Rega Elex-r and money in the bank.

[Sansiiro]

What speakers are you using Veiko?

I am using Elac Debut 6.2 (bookshelf)
I like them and I have heard they can outlive many upgrades in surrounding system.
I don't think I will get floorstanders any time soon, since I don't like to play very loud.

Having done a few hours listening just today, I feel like that is not so much the lack in the top end,
but rather overpowering of the bass. There are 2 reviews on youtube (The Audiophile Man, Pursuit of
Perfect System) that more-or-less point to the same issue (while saying the amp is brilliant).
So as of now, I am not committed. This emphasizing of bass gives a bit of that feel, that the model is
trying to attract the non-audiophile-listener, who might judge the gear more over its bass, and no
shame in there, since it is regarded as budget.

There could be workarounds with speakers and cables, but as for now I can also choose a different amp.
I hear the name of Rega popping up again, all the suggestions are welcome.

[Macca]

From what I can find on-line they are very good but need an amp that will deliver a lot of current to get the best out of them. Not sure I would recommend Rega for that. Most amps at the cheaper end of the market fail in that respect.

I'm not really up on what the latest amplifiers on the market are I'm afraid. If you can find an XTZ A100 D3 on the used market that will do the job, will cost about £500 or so. There are some Rotel amps that will also deliver a lot of current when required but do your research first as some Rotels are poor in that regard.

You could also check out NAD, but same applies so check the specs. Ideally you want an amp that doubles its power into 4 ohms, so for example 100 watts into 8ohms and 200 watts into 4 ohms. These specs are important to best sound quality with the speakers you have, so don't disregard them. If the spec into both loads isn't quoted then pass it by.

if the bass is a bit too much moving the speakers away from room boundaries (side and back walls) will balance them out, but you probably knew that.

I wouldn't pay any attention to Pursuit Perfect System's videos. The ones I have seen talked a lot of nonsense.

[Pigmy Pony]

A lot of Musical Fidelity amps can chuck out a fair bit of current.

[Sansiiro]

Having done some more listening, I find the Audiolab very good. The sound is solid, deep, detailed, confident, unapologetic.
I sense maturity and quality in it. But somehow, I cannot get past what I heard and keep hearing with Onkyo A-9130, a certain rough sparkle, juice, zinging high note - emotion. I tested the amp also with more speakers, and it seems evident.
Also, some reviewers have called Audiolab sound "dry", so perhaps I am not completely off here.

I am listening for example Alice Phoebe Lou (Paper Castles), Sarah Mclachlan (Fumbling Towards Ecstasy), Disco Elysium Soundtrack.

I do not respect the Onkyo very much, but I feel I should not be losing the positives, so I take the Audiolab back, replacing it with
Cambridge Audio or Rega. Unfortunately, the merchant has not many models he is willing to let me take home, or even set up there.

Thank you for your input.

[Sansiiro]

I now have listened the Rega Brio for two days.
Again, it has been very educational. It sounds very different from Audiolab 6000A.
If I would call the Audiolab an old solid boring (dry) professor, then the Rega Brio might be called the energetic loud youth, who can be tiring and also boring (in his own way).
From the very start I felt like the music was playing at 1.5 speed. I guess the agility creates the illusion. So I changed my streamer filter to slow, which I thought I’d never do.
Also at first I felt like the speakers were’nt quite lit – it felt very loud, but at the same time I felt I needed to push more volume. This effect was gone the next day, due to possibly my ears adjusting.
Also, it felt packed (closed), which I have experienced with a new amp before, so I let it play in my carage for 6 hours while I was away. Next day it seemed better.
Now, I took it to listen, because Audiolab sounded dry. And yes, the Rega is NOT dry. It is juicy and lively and punchy, more than anything I ever heard. To the point that it feels aggressive. But has it got more emotion?
Also, for some reason, I feel like the sound of all the different songs was very similar. Almost cartoonish.
I started purposefully choosing very different tracks, tracks with gloom, steadyness and calm, also with low pace. But they don’t seem to work. All of them seem to get this similar happy-go-lucky cartoonish quality, like a dream swishing by when you have drank too much coffee.
Perhaps I am jumping the gun. These are just first impressions, and I do realise that I am not professional reviewer, but a beginner audio-lover. So this log here is more for my own benefit.
The merchant will very kindly give me Marantz HD Amp1 tomorrow, to which I have not got great expectations.
Thank you for your time.

[Sansiiro]

Hello

I spent the weekend with Marantz HD AMP1 (35w).
I feel that it has the least flaws to my taste.
It is not too dry, not too warm, not too bassy, not too aggressive, and it has some detail and space.
However, few things raise a few doubts.
First – the vocals. I am not good enaugh at english to find the word, but but sometimes (not always) they seem edgy? thin? harsh?
I then combed the internet on the matter, but to my surprise, I found noone else mentioning this issue.
Since the “power of suggestion” is strong, I hope this issue is not really that evident...
Secondly - it sounds kind of thin sometimes. A bit veiled. “Sterile” – someone said.
Third – probably not enough power for louder levels……

But what is the main problem? It is the XTZ A2-300.
I find that I like the detail, clarity and separation that the class-D brings.
So. Why would I pay 1000 euros for older and lesser model, with not much power and praise,
when I could pay 500 euros for a 150 w class-D legend (poweramp though)?, as it seems to be portrayed.

But this is complicated also. My kind merchant can’t sell me this. Seems that only XTZ sells it.
And I already have paid the man. And furthermore – I have not actually heard the XTZ…….

So as for now I feel puzzled and will take the time off and marinade over the situation.

What I wonder about is, could the Marantz be good enaugh to let the Denafrips Ares II to shine, which is planned ahead?
Also – Perhaps my Elac Debut 6.2-s are so down below quality-wise that they in their own turn won’t let the Marantz to show it’s worth?

I return the Marantz tomorrow, and possibly the merchant will offer me another amp to take home.
And however it will sound, I feel that I will be obsessing about the XTZ.

One possible solution – I will get the preamp and cables from the merchant, and then get the XTZ poweramp and the Denafrips.

[Sansiiro]

Yeah, I got the XTZ A2-300.
It is very good.
Very clear, very neutral, quick, powerful, yet delicate,
has a lot of detail, nothing missing, nothing too much, very pleasant.
Class D is ok by me, if thats what it means.
I think I will settle with it for a long time,
if anything I will get another one.
Btw using it without preamp now, chromecast audio for
volume control, and Ares II for dac.

Have a great day!

[Lawrence001]

You must have had a very patient dealer [emoji1787]

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