The SECOND-most progressive ROCK lp release

[Deacon Beeker]

Virtually everyone who knows anything about rock will agree that the FIRST totally prog LP was King Crimson's "Court of Crimson King". Released Oct 10 '69 .

Wot are contenders for the second-most prog rock lp?

(Note that I stipulate prog ROCK. I am not necessarily interested in the word "progressive" in the sense of music that advances / is an improvement upon. It has to be in the rock oeuvre , or - since we are dealing with 60's - poprock. We are not talking things like Miles Davis or Dylan going electric.)

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Contenders might be Yes - Close to the Edge, Genesis - Foxtrot, Van De Graff Generator - Godbluff , to name a few, although were early to mid 70's
If 60's then Ahprodites Child -End of the World

[Deacon Beeker]

Aphrodite's Child debut lp was released Dec '68, so, if you accept "Court of Crimson King" as being first prog lp, then there is no way "End Of World" is going to be the second.

Besides, the music is baroque pop, influenced in places by the Beatles.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Aphrodite's Child debut lp was released Dec '68, so, if you accept "Court of Crimson King" as being first prog lp, then there is no way "End Of World" is going to be the second.

Besides, the music is baroque pop, influenced in places by the Beatles.

Yes but, but with only 2 months to go then, until the end of the 1960's it narrows a second prog lp in the 1960's capable of being second to ITCOTCK over a very short time frame.

King Crimson certainly set the stage for all prog rock to follow, so you need allowance, to be in the 1970's. I dare say there was no other prog LP released that would be a second to ITCOTCK
released either November or December 1969.

[Deacon Beeker]

I dare say there was no other prog LP released that would be a second to ITCOTCK
released either November or December 1969.

RARE BIRD - SAME Dec '69

RENAISSANCE -SAME Dec '69

VAN DER GRAFF GENERATOR "Aerosol Grey Machine" December 1969 (US release) hard to believe but there was no UK release. First release was US, then Germany.

MIGHTY BABY - SAME oCT '69

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Hi Horatio
Nice find, which would you say is second to ITCOTCK ? or is the 1970's a better period to award a second position.

If you go to the 1970's then many prog bands, naturally influenced by King Crimson appear like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange
but will requirie an appreciation of french language to appreciate what they are expressing as prog. One of my favorite lines is from Atlantis
from the album https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par_les_fils_de_Mandrin where Christian Decamps ends the vocal section with " The Grand Silence "

[Deacon Beeker]

I would say Renaissance-same is the stand-out second position.

.....

I have maybe 6 Ange lps, including both French & English version of "Par les fils de Mandrin".

[AJSki2fly]

I am not sure you are limiting it to the 60's or just what is the second most prog-rock LP

I would say contenders would be

Emerson Lake and Palmer - 1st Album 1970 would be right up there

Soft Machines first 2 albums have to their as well 68 and 69

The Moody Blues - On the Threshold of a Dream 1969, some might argue Psychedelic Rock, but it was considered Prog Rock in its day and it has a strange mix of styles, and crosses over with classical influences


Personally I'd pick ELP

[walpurgis]

I dare say labels can be affixed retrospectively, but it's debatable as to whether Court of The Crimson King even was Progressive Rock at the time. The term was not really established back then and was certainly not 'common usage' amongst rock fans. Many regarded CoTCK as psychedelic rock.

[Deacon Beeker]

You are correct - there is little evidence of the TERM "progressive" being used back in the initial stages. (But there ARE two or three concert bills/posters where the word IS brought up - I don't recall but I think one is for Hawkwind and the other maybe Keef Hartley Band).

The GENRE term, of course came later when there accumulated bands with THE SOUND.

So genre, no. Sound, yes.

We know the early prog sound -from the bands that followed - so we can extrapolate BACKWARDS, most certainly - to the early-most lps that clearly sparked off the whole shebang; which evinced this "sound" in its embryonic form.

[struth]

Nice by the Nice was around then.. To Our Children's Children's Children by Moody Blues would be too

[Deacon Beeker]

The Nice - same lp (third release) was released '69 I don't see it as having overt moves in the prog direction. This is protoprog with jazz leanings (say, on the two covers - Dylan & Hardin) and isn't "Rondo '69" a takeoff from Brubeck???

Much closer to prog, I would certainly have picked "5 Bridges" apparently released June 1970

[Pigmy Pony]

I am not sure you are limiting it to the 60's or just what is the second most prog-rock LP

I would say contenders would be

Emerson Lake and Palmer - 1st Album 1970 would be right up there

Soft Machines first 2 albums have to their as well 68 and 69

The Moody Blues - On the Threshold of a Dream 1969, some might argue Psychedelic Rock, but it was considered Prog Rock in its day and it has a strange mix of styles, and crosses over with classical influences


Personally I'd pick ELP

+1 for ELP first album. Then you go and include that Moody Blues album, which I hadn't heard in decades until 'Dear Diary' was played on this week's 'Killing Eve'. Brilliant stuff, and a priority next album purchase :)

[Deacon Beeker]

This beggars the question: "How can one call something coming immediately AFTER the benchmark "Court of Crimson King", PROTOprog?"

[AJSki2fly]

This beggars the question: "How can one call something coming immediately AFTER the benchmark "Court of Crimson King" PROTOprog?"

This really annoys me protoprog is a modern classification that did not exist at the actual time the music was created. The music was termed prog rock or progressive pop, imo the term is meaningless. There is a lot of crap written about this by so called academics, who are trying to classify certain styles which were not even considered or thought of at the time.


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[Barry]

Exactly! Which is why I'm not going to contribute to this thread. Who's to say King Crimson's 'In the Court of the Crimson King' was the first 'prog rock' album (well apart from Wikipedia that is )? And does it really matter?

[Deacon Beeker]

They may have not thought of it at the time but there definitely was that slim period where psych morphed into prog. There is no denying it.
Of course there was no template that the the bands dutily followed to get to full-blown prog.

Protoprog encapsulates some 50 - 100 bands that had "that" sound.


You cannot know prog without knowing proto. (Otherwise you're that kind of Porkupine Tree-Wilson-Mars Volta noob that mouths off his ignorance on all fora.)

[Lawrence001]

Where's the progmeister when you need him?

[Deacon Beeker]

Andre?

He is at the bottom of the garden broodingly munching on worms.

[Deacon Beeker]

protoprog is a modern classification that did not exist at the actual time the music was created. The music was termed prog rock or progressive pop, imo the term is meaningless.



I wager the term is meaningless to you since your palette is limited to a few basic colours.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Noobatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

[AJSki2fly]

I wager the term is meaningless to you since your palette is limited to a few basic colours.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Noobatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Just couldn’t resist being rude could you, maybe if you had actually been their at the time you would have a better insight into what actually happened. You call it whatever you want, it’s pretty irrelevant anyway. Cheers Andre

[Marco]

I wager the term is meaningless to you since your palette is limited to a few basic colours.


Hi Horatio,

Welcome to AoS:)

In future please be less judgemental about people you don't know, as speculative, rather sweeping statements, such as the above, are both ill-considered and rude, and that's fundamentally NOT how we behave here towards each other. Mutual tolerance and respect is the key, as this isn't a competition to see who is cleverest.

Ta!:cool:

Marco.

[Marco]

Just couldn’t resist being rude could you, maybe if you had actually been their at the time you would have a better insight into what actually happened. You call it whatever you want, it’s pretty irrelevant anyway. Cheers Andre

Indeed, Adrian, although his name isn't Andre;)

One thing newbies must grasp, when they join AoS (if they wish to remain here in the longterm), is that unlike some other forums, we don't practice oneupmanship [my gear is better than yours, or my knowledge of hi-fi or music is superior to yours], or create an environment where arrogant, self-appointed 'know-it-alls' can engage in arguments with those whom they consider as their 'lessers'.

And if they don't *get* that message, then they won't last long....

Marco.

[AJSki2fly]

Indeed, Adrian, although his name isn't Andre;)

One thing newbies must grasp, when they join AoS (if they wish to remain here in the longterm), is that unlike some other forums, we don't practice oneupmanship [my gear is better than yours, or my knowledge of hi-fi or music is superior to yours], or create an environment where arrogant, self-appointed 'know-it-alls' can engage in arguments with those whom they consider as their 'lessers'.

And if they don't *get* that message, then they won't last long....

Marco.

Hello Marco,

Thanks for your support, I am more than happy to have a sensible exchange of views and opinions with anyone as I think you know, just not prepared to be called names and bullied, too old in the tooth to put up with that.

Cheers Adrian

[Marco]

No worries, Adrian, I'm sure that's not what Horatio intended. In any case though, any form of bullying or personal insults won't be tolerated!

Marco.

[Joe]

Virtually everyone who knows anything about rock will agree that the FIRST totally prog LP was King Crimson's "Court of Crimson King". Released Oct 10 '69 .


Surely the very first was Days of Future Passed by the Moody Blues, released November 1967?

[Lawrence001]

Surely the very first was Days of Future Passed by the Moody Blues, released November 1967?Not sure you'll get a response [emoji38]

[Barry]

I might have suggested Pink Floyd's 'Piper at the Gates of Dawn', released August 1967. But it would probably be classed as psychedelic rock and not "progressive rock".

[willbewill]

Whilst I accept that itcotck is probably the first fully fledged prog rock album ( and as has been said that term wasn't really used back then, the word we tended to use was 'underground music', yes I was there and remember some of it), there were many since the early 60s that laid the foundations for it... Beach boys, Frank Zappa, Beatles, etc etc.

As to what could be the second 'fully fledged prog album' that's a difficult call as I assume we are talking of a prog 'concept' album as itcotck was? Possibly Renaissance?

[Haselsh1]

For me it would have to be Renaissance's album Prologue although Genesis' Nursery Cryme would be equal.

[AJSki2fly]

Moody Blues -on the threshold of a dream concept album, uses different styles together and was unconventional for its time, I found it in the prog rock bin in the record store at the time


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[Barry]

I doubt if there will be general agreement on exactly what was the first concept album, but several have been suggested:

'Freak Out' by Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention

'Pet Sounds' by the Beach Boys

'SF Sorrow' by The Pretty Things

.....


All were released in the mid to late '60s, and the first two were cited by the Beatles as being an influence in the making of 'Sgt Pepper' (which IMO is not a concept album). whereas 'SF Sorrow' can make a very good claim to be the first rock opera.

So there we go: "concept album"; "rock opera"; "progressive pop/rock", "psychedelic pop/rock" - the debate can go on and on ........... and on! :)

[AJSki2fly]

What about Spirit - The Twelve Dreams of Dr Sardonicus


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[Barry]

What about Spirit - The Twelve Dreams of Dr Sardonicus


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I have that, but never thought of it as being a 'concept album'. :scratch: I'll have to fish it out and listen to it again.