View Full Version : I’ve dropped Roon in favour of LMS
I’ve dropped Roon in favour of Logitech Media Server using the Material Skin on my MoOde Audio Pi, gives me direct access to Qobuz, Spotify, Bandcamp, Radio Paradise, TuneinRadio, plus my own music server [emoji4]
Can control both of my Pi setups, one on my main HiFi system and another one in my PC room, can be synced to work in unison or separately. PC room Pi is running PiCoreplayer as an alternative to MoOde and both work flawlessly [emoji6]
Roon - £90 per year
LMS - Free
Material Skin - Free ( Donations accepted )
Several photos to show what the Material Skin is capable of, designed and maintained by a Logitech Software employee [emoji106]
Works in Portrait and Landscape mode which is another plus over Roon as it can’t do that in iOS, the Material Skin can even work similar to Roon Radio and continue to play music similar to what you’ve just been listening to once the album/playlist is finished [emoji6][emoji4]
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WESTLOWER
10-05-2020, 15:30
Limited lp favourites with LMS.. I believe 500 is the limit so if you have an extensive library in Tidal or another service it won’t allow you access to over 500 .
I had this dilemma a couple of years ago
I Use Roon now.
Limited lp favourites with LMS.. I believe 500 is the limit so if you have an extensive library in Tidal or another service it won’t allow you access to over 500 .
I had this dilemma a couple of years ago
I Use Roon now.
Here’s my library scan, no idea if relevant just thought I’d show it anyway.
I should also have said that LMS is now on version 8.0.0
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200510/23dc68fc6736b82bad0db20162695794.jpg
WESTLOWER
10-05-2020, 16:19
It will be interesting to see if LMS allows more now.
I wrote to their tech support gurus who said there was a 500 limit.
Things may have changed.. it only used to show A - G in my alphabetical library
let’s us know please as if things get even tighter post Covid then as much as I really LOVE Roon then LMS could be back on the horizon.
It will be interesting to see if LMS allows more now.
I wrote to their tech support gurus who said there was a 500 limit.
Things may have changed.. it only used to show A - G in my alphabetical library
let’s us know please as if things get even tighter post Covid then as much as I really LOVE Roon then LMS could be back on the horizon.
I’ve edited my post above to say that LMS is now on a new version so it might have changed ?
Yatsushiro
10-05-2020, 17:31
Hi mikeyb
A good, timely post. I've long used LMS and PcP on a selection of RPi's, and the Material Skin has made a huge difference, particularly my wife who didn't like the old LMS interface. Note that as well as a 'browser' skin, there is also a Material 'app' for android phones.
Just to correct something that you posted. Material is developed by a brit, Craig Drummond. It is LMS itself that is maintained and developed by Michael Herger, who is indeed a Logitech employee.
Michael Herger was...basically...the guy who saved LMS.
Logitech left it dead in the water, but he carried on working on it and improving on it...all done in the same open source spirit of Sean Adams...who invented the Squeezebox.
Had conversations with him, and earlier Sean, when writing SB Touch VU Meter's a lifetime ago.
A long time away from all that, completely was unaware of LMS "Material".
Genuinely lifted my heart to see LMS at least sitting at the same table as Roon, looks like even the linkable Metadata is in place!
Kudos.
Michael Herger was...basically...the guy who saved LMS.
Logitech left it dead in the water, but he carried on working on it and improving on it...all done in the same open source spirit of Sean Adams...who invented the Squeezebox.
Had conversations with him, and earlier Sean, when writing SB Touch VU Meter's a lifetime ago.
A long time away from all that, completely was unaware of LMS "Material".
Genuinely lifted my heart to see LMS at least sitting at the same table as Roon, looks like even the linkable Metadata is in place!
Kudos.He's done an excellent job reviving it
Hi mikeyb
A good, timely post. I've long used LMS and PcP on a selection of RPi's, and the Material Skin has made a huge difference, particularly my wife who didn't like the old LMS interface. Note that as well as a 'browser' skin, there is also a Material 'app' for android phones.
Just to correct something that you posted. Material is developed by a brit, Craig Drummond. It is LMS itself that is maintained and developed by Michael Herger, who is indeed a Logitech employee.Thanks for the heads-up on the Android app
WESTLOWER
10-05-2020, 19:27
So has the limited 500 library from streaming services been improved?
So has the limited 500 library from streaming services been improved?Artists, albums or tracks?
WESTLOWER
10-05-2020, 20:35
Artists, albums or tracks?
Albums on the services
On that image of my scan I'm showing 851 Spotify albums and 502 Qobuz if that's what you mean
WESTLOWER
11-05-2020, 00:24
Hmm I’m not sure it effected the scan on the previous incarnation, just wouldn’t display on the player or access after 500..
pretty sure it scanned the lot though.
Is Artist Biography, Album Reviews and Lyrics available for your own music or just streaming services?
Thanks
I just never understood the need for Roon; perhaps I missed something that users really enjoy.
i just never understood the need for roon; perhaps i missed something that users really enjoy.
need to be using the likes of qobuz to get its advantages, and it doesnt rush at you, but it grows to a point of want rather than need
Is Artist Biography, Album Reviews and Lyrics available for your own music or just streaming services?
ThanksNot sure, I'm at work just now, I'll check tonight and report back
Been using LMS since I first bought an SBT many years ago and have just continued to use it through many changes on the Pi based server and players I use . Material Skin is a very welcome addition the details of any track played from any source (Radio Paradise , Your own Library , Tidal ,Spotify etc) are all updated as each track starts . There are in my case a numbe of Albums/Artists which have no information but as this is a free service no complaints from me. If your taste is more main stream then no reall issues .
LMS offers a very professional and excellent output and is updated and kept working on a regular basis by dedicated volunteers . I love it and find the additional support and infrmation throught the Squeezebox Forum to be as good as anything out there. The recent changes of streams and file types of the BBC was a case in point , lots of other streamers lost the plot for the highest rate of streaming due to the dropping of Tune In but the LMS uses an additional APP / Plugin called BBC iPlayer which just got upgraded and kept on playing .
Is Artist Biography, Album Reviews and Lyrics available for your own music or just streaming services?
ThanksIt does, see the screenshots to see what I was able to access when I played Adele's 21 album from my NAS drive just a few minutes ago.
The last 2 screenshots show Agitation Free from Qobuz which you can tell by the little Qobuz icon superimposed on the album cover, and Ali Ferguson with the Spotify icon, it does this for each of the streaming services you subscribe to.
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Thanks for info Mike, will give it a go some time. :)
Thanks for info Mike, will give it a go some time. :)You're welcome [emoji4]
Edit: just discovered it can do it with the Radio channels too
Is there an idiots guide to setting up LMS and Material Skin somewhere?
WESTLOWER
11-05-2020, 22:42
Really interested to try this out again. Appreciate a quick 'how to' please. I run a PC which connected directly to my DAC so I guess LMS and a squeeze player is needed. I'm sure I still have a mysqueezebox account. Thanks
i do not know how complete you want to make this but I have issues with taking and adding screen shots which is the easiest way to show how it is done . But will try and give written instructions here if that helps.
Sorry this is all based on Windows 10 and a PC as Ihave never owned or used a MAC .
First go to https://mysqueezebox.com/download and download and install Logitech Media Server on your PC .
Then find the settings button which if I remember correctly is in the bottim right hand corner . This will open a screen with a set of tabs across the top you need to click on the one marked plug ins.
This will open up the Plug Ins page which shows you the plug ins you have installed by those with a tick in the box . Any you do not want you can just untick the box and next restart it will be removed. Now scroll down the page and look for a box Allow Third Party Plug Ins tick this and then restart LMS .
Go back to the plug in page and in the list look for material skin tick the box and save and this will install material skin on your version of LMS . Then on the settings page open the tab interface once open the first line will show Web Interface and there is a drop down under neath it hit the arrow and choose material skin from the drop down . That will then set up your PC interface for LMS as Material Skin which you can add as a favourite or access from 192.168.1.???(your LMS ISP allocated thre figure number):9000 and this will take you direct to the Material Skin web interface.
You can also visit the follwoing site and in the lists below the heading it has pictures of the various screens to install this .
https://github.com/CDrummond/lms-material
Here's the latest build page
http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=8.0
You might need version 8.0.0 at least to have the latest Material Skin plugin working
Thanks for the instructions Bencat saves me trying to do it tonight [emoji6]
Instructions here on how to install LMS on a Raspberry Pi.
https://www.picoreplayer.org/landingzone_option2.html
It took me a couple of hours but it appears to have installed ok. a bit of a slog and reminded me why I moved from picoreplayer and LMS to moode and a openmediavault NAS setup.
Will try Material Skin web interface later.
Really interested to try this out again. Appreciate a quick 'how to' please. I run a PC which connected directly to my DAC so I guess LMS and a squeeze player is needed. I'm sure I still have a mysqueezebox account. ThanksThere's a setting to change the playlist number from the default 500, not sure if that's any help to you, I didn't change it but I was able to put the cursor there in order to change the number.
It's under Performance settings within Server Settings so I've no doubt if you increase the number then performance will slow down.
Might be worth looking at.
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Is there an idiots guide to setting up LMS and Material Skin somewhere?It actually works with 7.9.x
https://cdn.statically.io/gh/d6jg/material-documentation/master/html/Material%20Skin.html
All up and running with my pi, great on my iPad but not working with my raspdac mini kit, no display or remote. You need the music and artist information plugin for the artist, album info etc.
killie99
13-05-2020, 10:36
I've been using a Pi3b as the LMS server for a while but it can be painfully slow to do a rescan - every now and again when the pi gets powered down the database gets corrupted and I have to do a rescan.
Just bought an old Lenovo Tiny PC for £65 to try out as my LMS server (2.8Ghz i3, 4Gb memory) - it really is tiny. Hoping this will be bullet proof compared to the Pi3b.
The Lenovo is really well made, very solid and it's so small it can be tucked away in a cupboard and used headless - measures about 7" square and about 1.5" high. I'll be putting a 1Tb SSD in it for Win10 and to hold my music library.
The rescan on my Pi system only takes a few minutes and so far ( touch wood ) no issues.
I never power down the Pi unless it's to move it or use a different OS on it.
However I run LMS on an Intel NUC so that avoids the issue you're having with the Pi as the LMS server
Just bought an old Lenovo Tiny PC for £65 to try out as my LMS server (2.8Ghz i3, 4Gb memory) - it really is tiny. Hoping this will be bullet proof compared to the Pi3b.
The Lenovo is really well made, very solid and it's so small it can be tucked away in a cupboard and used headless - measures about 7" square and about 1.5" high. I'll be putting a 1Tb SSD in it for Win10 and to hold my music library.
And they are super reliable, too - we've got about 3,000 of them in our business and virtually no hardware failures to speak of in 4 years.
WESTLOWER
13-05-2020, 11:06
There's a setting to change the playlist number from the default 500, not sure if that's any help to you, I didn't change it but I was able to put the cursor there in order to change the number.
It's under Performance settings within Server Settings so I've no doubt if you increase the number then performance will slow down.
Might be worth looking at.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200512/0fc83cee7d6c7b6fdb61dfeb09cdedd6.jpg
Thanks, i did try that previously and it didn't alter the limit it would show.
To be clear, does it still show the libraries separate, so Streaming service in 1 Library and then local files in another, anyway of integrating them together like Roon does?
Thanks, i did try that previously and it didn't alter the limit it would show.
To be clear, does it still show the libraries separate, so Streaming service in 1 Library and then local files in another, anyway of integrating them together like Roon does?I'm sure it integrates them all.
This screenshot ( I'm at work so only have access to this photo ) shows groups called A.M Samurai ( on Bandcamp ) and another called 41.9 that I do not have on my NAS drive, it is part of my Spotify library, I also played a group called Agitation Free last night by clicking on Album Artists within My Music Library, again those are only Qobuz and Spotify not my NAS drive. Qobuz versions shown in screenshot 2.
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Integration confirmed here:
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WESTLOWER
13-05-2020, 15:52
ooh thanks
ooh thanksTo be honest I wish I'd seen that LMS had gone this way back in December or I wouldn't have bothered paying Roon £90 for 4 months use.
I've already set my Roon account so it won't auto renew in December this year. I tried Roon 4 or 5 times before crumbling as I always thought it didn't offer much for me, but I was bored one day and having recently started using Qobuz again I thought what the hell it's only £90.
Should have stuck to my instinct and not subscribed to it.
Arse! I think would be the right title for me [emoji23]
killie99
15-05-2020, 16:05
Got the Lenovo Tiny PC all set up, running Win10, LMS 8.0, Music & Artist Information and Material Skin plugins.
So much more responsive than uses the Pi as the LMS server. Don't know why anyone would bother uses a Pi as the LMS server when you can use one of these Tiny PC's.
Got the Lenovo Tiny PC all set up, running Win10, LMS 8.0, Music & Artist Information and Material Skin plugins.
So much more responsive than uses the Pi as the LMS server. Don't know why anyone would bother uses a Pi as the LMS server when you can use one of these Tiny PC's.Yeah that's how I have it, LMS on NUC with MoOde Audio on one Pi and PicorePlayer on another [emoji4]
I have been running LMS for the last few days on my 4GB pi 4 with a usb hard drive with no problems, player is a pi 3B+ running moode audio.
I have been running LMS for the last few days on my 4GB pi 4 with a usb hard drive with no problems, player is a pi 3B+ running moode audio.
I have tried LMS on Pi 4gb but still cannot get it 'play nice'. Slow to load, lots of album art missing or not loading properly, failing to reboot properly when needed etc. I have put this down to size of library (around 4tb).
I used Picore player as no mention there of having to have partitions if over 2tb .
I have tried LMS on Pi 4gb but still cannot get it 'play nice'. Slow to load, lots of album art missing or not loading properly, failing to reboot properly when needed etc. I have put this down to size of library (around 4tb).
I used Picore player as no mention there of having to have partitions if over 2tb .Running LMS on the Pi slider alongside the OS will be poor, it's better running on another machine/pc whatever and using the Pi solely as an end point.
I use an Intel NUC that cost me about £230 secondhand for LMS that was originally meant to run Roon, but I prefer the much more versatile LMS.
DId you expand the SD card within Picoreplayer?
It's one of the setup options, not sure if it'll help but won't do any harm.
I would also use 16gb minimum for running LMS alongside Picoreplayer.
Running LMS on the Pi slider alongside the OS will be poor, it's better running on another machine/pc whatever and using the Pi solely as an end point.
I use an Intel NUC that cost me about £230 secondhand for LMS that was originally meant to run Roon, but I prefer the much more versatile LMS.
DId you expand the SD card within Picoreplayer?
It's one of the setup options, not sure if it'll help but won't do any harm.
I would also use 16gb minimum for running LMS alongside Picoreplayer.
Cheers for reply, I did expand SD card via PiCoreplayer but no joy. I have tried on a number of occasions to get LMS working either via max2player, picore or various other options. Always seems to struggle with large library. Meanwhile Moode is
continuing to play and behave perfectly. I just wanted to retry LMS after many years. Had a squeezebox touch when first came out and used if for about 6 months, then went PI. Stupidly had bought a Squeezebox radio just before changing so is sat in loft. Thought I might try running LMS and using it but guess not.
Cheers for reply, I did expand SD card via PiCoreplayer but no joy. I have tried on a number of occasions to get LMS working either via max2player, picore or various other options. Always seems to struggle with large library. Meanwhile Moode is
continuing to play and behave perfectly. I just wanted to retry LMS after many years. Had a squeezebox touch when first came out and used if for about 6 months, then went PI. Stupidly had bought a Squeezebox radio just before changing so is sat in loft. Thought I might try running LMS and using it but guess not.What you've to remember that running LMS AND something like Picoreplayer basically means you're running two operating systems on the same Pi and even although Picoreplayer actually resides in the Ram section this just slows everything down, as mentioned earlier I run LMS on the NUC and have two Pi's as endpoints, one using Picoreplayer and one using MoOde.
If you want the Raspberry Pi to act as a an LMS server with a large Library then you really need to use a single Raspberry Pi 4 4GB loaded and working as nothing more than the LMS server with your library connected to that . I would also say that only as far as I am aware there is currently a limit of 2TB maximum with LMS anything larger has to be partitioned and set as a second library . However I am by no means ana expert on this and things constantly change so if that statement is wrong then apologies. For such a large Library i would suggest that the Raspberry Pi is not ideal and will struggle .
@mikeb
Hi Mike, I'm pretty new to this stuff and just started messing with a RPi4B running MoOde with a 4TB NAS set up.
Don't know how dumb this question is, but could you explain why you need LMS, what does it give you that you cant achieve on MoOde alone?
I also have a Qobuz subscription, I hope to incorporate this with MoOde using UPnP.
Qobuz is native on Volumio, but I balked at having to pay an additional subscription for myVolumio to access it.
I'm a novice at all this so I'm not aware of any pitfalls that may be lurking with this approach.
@mikeb
Hi Mike, I'm pretty new to this stuff and just started messing with a RPi4B running MoOde with a 4TB NAS set up.
Don't know how dumb this question is, but could you explain why you need LMS, what does it give you that you cant achieve on MoOde alone?
I also have a Qobuz subscription, I hope to incorporate this with MoOde using UPnP.
Qobuz is native on Volumio, but I balked at having to pay an additional subscription for myVolumio to access it.
I'm a novice at all this so I'm not aware of any pitfalls that may be lurking with this approach.Hi,
One of main reasons I use LMS is that it gives me access to Bandcamp which I listen to a lot as you can try before you buy. Radio Paradise Hi Res streams too.
It also gives better access to Qobuz and Spotify than just via uPnP or Connect, you can search, add to favourites etc.
I also like the way that the Material Skin combines your music library into one, ie: music on my NAS drive, Qobuz and Spotify favourites can all be shown as one big library.
I'm certainly not missing Roon, I should have stuck with my gut instinct NOT to buy it, too late now but I've cancelled the auto renew for that.
LMS is free so nothing to lose if you try and don't like.
I donated to MoOde and Material Skin developer even though both are free.
PS: it looks like MyVolumio wants to be like Roon, even their new forum looks like the Roon community pages.
Ok, so it's down to integration and ease of access/use of your combined services/storage, that makes sense.
My initial needs are basic, I'm sure that will change along the way, as I get into it, so I'll keep LMS in mind.
I don't even run my set up headless at present. I have a large screen TV straight in front of me, so that's plugged into the Pi/MoOde. I control it with a wired mouse and have an air mouse on order. It's basic, but it works, I don't own a tablet and wasn't about to buy one, just to select music tracks. I think I must be part Scott. :D
One thing, does this slightly more complex set up and number of boxes, tie your system down to your home network location - how easy would it be for you to use your file based music at say a NEBO meet? It's something I have at the back of my mind when considering my set up.
aye Scott of the Antartic;)
Same Clan, be grateful I didn't say scotch :D
Same Clan, be grateful I didn't say scotch :D
i'll drink to that:lol:
Well........
I've been reading up on LMS for most of the afternoon and I'm no further forward in understanding what and how I set it up, I just can't find a way into the subject. Too many conflicting threads about different applications confused the subjects I was interested in.
I have a Synology NAS DSD218play which is 64bit 4 core 1.4GHz and 1GB DDR4 RAM.
1). Is this suitable as the Server, to load LMS on to?
2). I have a Pi4B/4GB on the network, I will be using this as the player, is this what you would call an endpoint?
3). What OS/App/Plugin software do I need to get the Material Skin GUI appearance that is shown earlier in the thread. - on which device do I load each piece?
Some help in understanding this would be appreciated as I'm just not getting how it all interacts.
Ken,
Good info here https://www.picoreplayer.org/
If LMS works with your NAS that would be the way to go, install and set up LMS on NAS drive.
Install and set up picoreplayer on your pi.
Install and set up material skin and artist information plugins on your LMS server.
It's not quite as simple as it sounds, but well worth the effort. You could install picoreplayer and LMS on your pi and store your files on your nas drive. Full info on above link.
My setup, LMS on pi4 with usb drive and picoreplayer on pi3b+ as player.
Just noticed you run Qobuz, so you would need to install Qobuz app, runs very well I am using it my self.
@mikeb
Mike in your first post you say you have two Pi's operating with an LMS server on your network.
One using MoOde the other using piCorePlayer - for those unfamiliar, these are Pi Operating Systems incorporating music player software.
They use different players in the background, MoOde uses Music Player Daemon (MPD) and piCoreplayer uses Squeezlite.
This is what was said on snakeoil-os site:
"While MPD reveals a lot of microdetails with the recordings, Logitech Media Server (LMS) with Squeezelite reveal a lot about the music itself."
"Words I'll associate with LMS+Squeezelite combo:
euphoric,
natural,
relaxing, and
easy-listening."
Whats your take on the sound quality/characteristics of each player, or don't you hear a difference between them?
I didn't realise you could use MoOde as an LMS client, I thought you had to use piCorePlayer(Squeezelite).
I get the feeling, the only way to get to grips with this is to buy a second MicroSD card, load it up and experiment with what is possible.
My current MoOde set up gives me everything I need bar Qobuz integration. As you pointed out, achieving this using UPnP is a basic, clunky solution, so LMS is attractive.
EDIT: Ah, I see there is the option in MoOde to turn on the Squeezelite Renderer, that makes some sense.
Thanks for that Barry.
It seems when loading LMS on a Synology NAS there is an App icon, to install LMS from within the NAS server software, trouble is it loads an outdated version, it may be a version tweaked by Synology for their devices, not sure. It is 7.7.6-116 or a Beta 7.9.1-168 I think these are old. Material Skin may not work, I will have to investigate if it is possible to install the latest version of LMS.
Thanks for that Barry.
It seems when loading LMS on a Synology NAS there is an App icon, to install LMS from within the NAS server software, trouble is it loads an outdated version, it may be a version tweaked by Synology for their devices, not sure. It is 7.7.6-116 or a Beta 7.9.1-168 I think these are old. Material Skin may not work, I will have to investigate if it is possible to install the latest version of LMS.
Worth trying the 7.9 beta version, I had the material skin running ok with 7.9.3, can't remember what version. Your NAS may give you the option to update once installed. LMS gives the option to update from within it's self.
Well I installed the Beta version of LMS on my NAS, added the Material Skin, Music and Artist Information plugins, without difficulty.
Did the usual library location path etc.
On my Pi running MoOde I activated the Squeezelite Renderer.
I rebooted both devices, but my player does not show for selection, in the LMS settings, player tab.:scratch:
I'll go through the settings again just in case I missed something.
I can't spot anything I've missed, there is still no player for selection in LMS settings.
I added the Qobuz plugin while I was looking round.
Anyone got any ideas why MoOde doesn't show as a player in LMS?
Squeezelite is definitely turned on as a renderer in MoOde.
How is your pi connected to the network? I have a static ip address set for my pi player in the router, when I booted my player yesterday it did not appear in LMS and was showing the wrong ip address on my display, a reboot of my wifi extender solved the problem. You can try rebooting your router and the pi. Is moode working normally? If you have another SD card try picoreplayer, I find it easier to use then moode.
Yes, MoOde is playing as we speak, using files that are stored on the NAS where LMS is installed.
Pi and NAS both have static IP addresses. Both connected to router using RJ45 / cable.
Rebooted Pi and NAS twice earlier.
The only thing I've not done is reboot my router, but the Pi is seeing the NAS and vice versa. The pi and the NAS files are also visible from my laptop (desktop mount links) over a wifi connection with the router. The network seems to be working fine.
I'm thinking of getting another card and trying piCorePlayer.
Can you still play local files on piCorePlayer if you disconnect the Pi from the network, ie from a USB flash drive plugged into the Pi?
What GUI are you using with piCorePlayer, "Jivelite"?
I want to be able to play the Pi local files while at other locations, bake offs etc. Even if I don't get the same functionality as when on my home network with LMS.
I'm thinking of getting another card and trying piCorePlayer.
Can you still play local files on piCorePlayer if you disconnect the Pi from the network, ie from a USB flash drive plugged into the Pi?
What GUI are you using with piCorePlayer, "Jivelite"?
I want to be able to play the Pi local files while at other locations, bake offs etc. Even if I don't get the same functionality as when on my home network with LMS.
I don’t think so, I think picoreplayer only works with LMS. There is no GUI for picoreplayer, you open it’s web page to set it up and then play via material skin on LMS.
Did you try restarting squeezelite from the moode audio config screen?
"Did you try restarting squeezelite from the moode audio config screen?"
Yes a couple of times.
Based on what I read about piCorePlayer:
Squeezelite is the Player used in piCorePlayer, but it is a command line player, meant to be used in a headless set up. Jivelite is a GUI that works with Squeezelite.
I need to investigate this further, If I can't use the Pi stand alone at bake offs etc this set up wont be acceptable.
This is why I was trying to get MoOde working with LMS as MoOde will function off the network as a stand alone player using localy stored music files.
Quote from Electro {maker}
"Overall, piCorePlayer is easy to use and a solid solution for transforming your Raspberry Pi into a networked music player. I suggest after you first install piCorePlayer that as a next step you enable Logitech Media Server, then install Jivelite. The latter adds a GUI to the Raspberry Pi piCorePlayer which you can then browse with a keyboard and mouse or using a touchscreen for a nifty portable media player if you like."
Ken, thanks for info about Jivelite, I will take a look. Perhaps your answer is a two card set up, picoreplayer at home via LMS/Material Skin and moode on the road. It only takes a second to change the SD card. I often swap between moode and picoreplayer.
I am at a bit of a loss why your LMS setup is not working with moode?
Yeh it's a mystery why its not working.
Mike uses MoOde on one of his Pi's and networked to an LMS server, maybe he will catch this and shed some light on it.
All the info I have come across, re Jivelite, suggests it will run on piCorePlayer with a local storage source as a free standing player, accept input from a mouse/keyboard and hook up to an HDMI monitor. I would just loose the LMS connectivity pulling all the external sources together when disconnected from the network.
That's what i'm hoping for anyway, I guess I will have to try this and see.
In case any of you folks interested there has been a fair bit of updating and improvement done to RuneAudio in recent months.
Can be downloaded here if you want to give it a try.
RuneAudio+R e3 https://www.runeaudio.com/forum/runeaudio-r-e3-t7014.html
regards
PaulBarnett
17-06-2020, 11:51
I'm thinking of getting another card and trying piCorePlayer.
Can you still play local files on piCorePlayer if you disconnect the Pi from the network, ie from a USB flash drive plugged into the Pi?
What GUI are you using with piCorePlayer, "Jivelite"?
I want to be able to play the Pi local files while at other locations, bake offs etc. Even if I don't get the same functionality as when on my home network with LMS.
Yes, if you have picoreplayer on a Pi, you can optionally run LMS on the same Pi (installed and configured from the pcp config pages), you can then point LMS at local (eg USB) music files, and then point pcp's squeezelite player to that lms (use IP address 127.0.0.1).
So the music would not go over the network, but be served locally.
But it's not then clear how you'd control it, as you normally connect to LMS over a network. Perhaps if you look at an IR controller option? Or leave the Pi's wifi running, just for control, not music traffic.
Hi Paul
Thanks for the input, but that set up wouldn't really give me what I'm after.
I have to have wifi and blue tooth turned off on the Pi, as this is only a test bed lash up, to establish how my file based system will function. The SD card will eventually be transferred into an OKTO DAC8 Stereo, when available. This has a built in Pi4B for streaming, inside its case, too much RFI with them running inside a metal box, plus it will kill the signal strength.
I'm just sorting out the system settings with this set up first.
My MicroSD card came today, I loaded piCorePlayer on it, inserted it into the Pi4B and booted it up. I see an 8GB Ram version of the Pi4B is on offer now.
Gave the Pi a Static IP Address and pointed picorePlayer at my NAS for LMS, as that's where it's installed. The Pi was recognised in LMS as the only compatible player on the network.
I also loaded Jivelite on to the Pi to give squeezelite (the player in piCorePlayer) a GUI.
All seems to work, I see my music library, on a wifi networked laptop, through an LMS browser page and also from Jivelite on the Pi, connected to my TV. I can navigate the Jivelite GUI using a keyboard and mouse, so basic connectivity is working.
I can look through the album thumbnails etc, using both access methods and the Qobuz plugin is working, so I can navigate my favourites there to.
I set piCoreplayer output as USB but I'm not getting any sound through the Topping D90 DAC.
Whether I instigate play from the LMS browser interface, or from the Jivelite GUI, no sound.
I'll spend some time looking at this tomorrow, there are a lot of settings, I may have missed something, maybe Alsa settings are wrong.
Once I get the sound working, the aim is to disconnect the Pi from the network and see if Jivelite/Squeezelite will work with a local USB storage source interdependently.
I got the sound to work..... USB settings in piCorePlayer needed adjustment.
it's a different sound to moOde (which is an MPD player), less sibilant but a bit rounded off, not as punchy, or as clear a window into the recording as MoOde.
I read that piCorePlayer/LMS was more about the overall feel of the track, its a pleasant listen, but for me MoOde just leaves it standing, for detail and dynamics.
There are a few more settings I want to experiment with, before making a final decision.
If MoOde had a Qobuz plugin I wouldn't have been looking elsewhere, I like its simple no nonsense and easy to navigate GUI and it sounds fantastic.
I could end up trying to use MoOde again as the player for LMS.
Glad you got it up and running Ken, worth another try with MoOde. Don't forget MoOde will be using squeezelite with LMS not MPD for playing, so you might not get the sound of MoOde.
@Kit1cat
I reinstalled the latest version of MoOde + LMS v 8.0.0 on my Pi4B and removed LMS from the NAS which is just storing my music library now.
LMS works with MoOdes Squeezlite player option while I'm on the network and I switch over to MoOdes GUI/MPD player when disconnected. This allows independent operation of the Pi at bake offs etc with a USB stick of tunes. MoOde auto-mounts USB devices and also shows anything stored on the SD Card as a menu choice. Its much more versatile and seamless than the piCorePlayer/Jivelite combo, when off the network.
I got Material Skin to run on LMS and functioning on my laptop and Phone browsers. The Qobuz plugin is working and both my NAS files and Qobuz favourites appear together in one library view. The Qobuz thumbnails have the Q Logo in the corner to identify they are being streamed off the net. Its pretty damn impressive, the way it all interacts.
I can do some serious listening tests now, to see which of the two players I prefer. :D
Looking good Ken. :) Are you running with LMS and MoOde on the same SD card?
Looking good Ken. :) Are you running with LMS and MoOde on the same SD card?
Yes, I installed LMS 8.0.0 on the MoOde SD Card using SSH from my laptop.
Just a couple of lines required to install it.
I can give you the code if you want?
Yes, I installed LMS 8.0.0 on the MoOde SD Card using SSH from my laptop.
Just a couple of lines required to install it.
I can give you the code if you want?
Yes please, could come in handy :)
Ok, so this is for installing LMS v8.0.0 on to the MoOde SD Card.
V8.0.0 is in BETA at present, it works on my Pi4B in either 32 or 64 bit mode.
MoOde version I have installed is 6.5.2
You can use this command format and substitute the path/number for a different version of LMS. See what is available at http://downloads-origin.slimdevices.com/ Beta versions are in the nightly folder.
If not already done, expand the file system, in MoOde/Configuration/System, to use your full SD Card capacity.
1). From a networked device SSH to MoOde.
Code:
sudo wget "http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/8.0/lms/0d170acd9c427444df84a414e22d3ab35862eff3/logitechmediaserver_8.0.0~1592463207_arm.deb"
sudo dpkg -i logitechmediaserver_8.0.0~1592463207_arm.deb
2). To reach the LMS server using your internet browser:
"http://YourMoOdeIP:9000"
Do not use the "Quotation Marks" on the paths, the editor here keeps turning the path into a URL link and you need to enter the full path.
Adding the quotation marks was the only way I could get it to display in full.
Thanks Ken, will give it ago when I have a minute.
Ok here is my assessment of these two players sound quality.
Player 1
Logitech Media Server (LMS) through Squeezelite player
Player 2
MoOde through its default Media Player Daemon (MPD) player.
My kit is fairly neutral and both players ran the same set up:
USB from Pi into Topping D90 DAC, balanced into PS Audio Stella Pre, balanced into an active crossover which splits bass to a Nord class D Amp and Mid/HF to an EL34 valve Amp. Speakers NS1000m MID/Twtr, Scanspeak 12" Bass.
I let the system play for nearly 2 hours before starting my comparison.
Let me say from the start, both these players are very good and differences are minor. Random listening between the two would not have revealed much and it was only back and forth comparison of the same track that allowed the subtle differences to register. That said, it didn't take long for my first impressions to be confirmed, for me, MoOde is the best, let me expand:
LMS has a smooth full bodied sound, but MoOde has a clearer more detailed view into the music, this could effect how they interact with your gear and your preferred voicing.
LMS is more tolerant of hot/edgy recordings but MoOde has a blacker background due to sharper leading and trailing edges.
I felt LMS was slightly like looking through tinted glass and MoOde was a cleaner picture, has more air around instruments and conveyed the room acoustic better on live recordings.
LMS has a rich full bodied midrange and upper bass, MoOde has more impact and definition on rim shots and piano key strikes.
Plucked stringed instruments were more realistic through MoOde, the clean edges to notes gives the effect of more detail and separation.
I enjoyed listening to both, LMS is musical and an easy listen, but I had more goose bump moments with MoOde.
Which you prefer is down to personal taste, I hope I've given enough feedback for you to get the basic flavour of each.
I will probably use MoOde for my serious listening and LMS for Qobuz where it wins hands down, due to it's plugin. I tend to browse and sample music on Qobuz then purchase HiRes Flac versions for my NAS library. With MoOde/LMS on the same SD Card, it's a simple toggling of an on/off button for Squeezelite, in MoOds GUI configuration settings to flip between the two. This arrangement suits my needs.
There is something I couldn't work out, in LMS when browsing Album thumb nails, they are sorted in alphabetical order by title, not ideal! This puts Bowie's Aladdin Sane at the top of the Album list and Ziggy Stardust at the bottom. In MoOde I sort Albums by Artist, alphabetically, then by the year the album was released. So once I've scrolled to Bowie all his albums appear together in Chronological order. I know you can search by artist, then albums in LMS, but that's a structured search, I like to brows and flick through the covers, generally selecting by the recognisable Cover Art, not from the actual album title.
Is there any way of doing this in LMS ?
There are settings within the Material Skin that might help, worth a look anyway.
Try under Server Settings, there is a drop down box where you can select whichever section you need to change.
On that screenshot you click on the 'Basic Settings' drop down box to choose whatever section you need.
There is also a line within the settings for the Material Skin itself that you can sort Favourites by the provider default rather than alphabetically.
Photo 1 shows the drop down box section on the Server Settings page.
See photo 2 for how to access the Skin settings, under Settings.
Photo 3 shows the Favourites setting.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200621/d5632b23c0b0c173e90dc0508c87d30d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200621/866cceffae07585dc398ae4fdb6465a0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200621/66071c5fb44bcb1059f12a46f0206993.jpg
Hi Mike
Yes I went through all the variants in the drop down menu, a couple of times, before posting.
I can't see anything that will work on the basic method used for album sorting.
Also tried the main settings and player settings, nothing there either.
The server settings in Material Skin are the same as in the Default Skin, they are actually clearer to follow in the default.
Checked pretty much everything I could think of.
For very large libraries, the method I use is not very practical, seeing it all at once, but for smaller libraries it works for me.
Maybe when they looked at how to access the music they were presuming a lot of data, so structured the navigation accordingly.
Hi Mike
Yes I went through all the variants in the drop down menu, a couple of times, before posting.
I can't see anything that will work on the basic method used for album sorting.
Also tried the main settings and player settings, nothing there either.
The server settings in Material Skin are the same as in the Default Skin, they are actually clearer to follow in the default.
Checked pretty much everything I could think of.
For very large libraries, the method I use is not very practical, seeing it all at once, but for smaller libraries it works for me.
Maybe when they looked at how to access the music they were presuming a lot of data, so structured the navigation accordingly.
You could always ask on the Material Skin forum.
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?109624-Announce-Material-Skin/page465
Thanks Barry, didn't realise there was one.
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