View Full Version : Are Optical outputs that bad?
Rare Bird
03-07-2010, 15:04
I did a bit of farting about last night with the Sony CD Players.Trying to decide things.
I have a couple Sony XB-930QS UK Special editions & a X222ES..
The 'XB-930QS' has both Optical & Coax digital outputs, but it has no variable output on analogue which would mean i really need a line level pre-amp to go with the power amp.
The 'X222ES' has only an optical digital output only but has both set & variable analogue outputs.
Which ever machine i use (Will only have room for one) which will be use with outboard DAC. The 'X222ES' is the candidate with the variable Analogue output as i don't want to use a pre-amp, even though i adore the smoothness of the tray & fix lazer mech with the 'XB-930QS' i prefer using the 'X-222ES' as it's just a more enjoyable machine to use!
These will more than likley go when i can afford a top of the range Sony but not for a long time yet.
The thing is as the title says are Optical digital lines really that bad.I do sence a very very slight difference between Coax/Optical on the 'XB-930' but it is fractional!
Any good recommendations for optical as i only use a QED 'Performance' optical lead, never really bothered with optical before till i bought the 'X222ES' machine!! I've always took very expensive optical leads as a bit of a con tbh..Maybe this QEDlead is as good as it gets with opticals?
How do you vary the digital output on the XB930?
Rare Bird
03-07-2010, 15:10
How do you vary the digital output on the XB930?
I don't it's the Analogue output thats variable (only on the 222), should be the same as Marco Player in that respect..Motorised pots via remote or manual.
Just this you said that implies the digital output is variable:
..
The 'XB-930QS' has both Optical & Coax digital outputs, no variable output on analogue ?
Rare Bird
03-07-2010, 15:16
Just this you said that implies the digital output is variable:
Is this better :lolsign:
The 'XB-930QS' has both Optical & Coax digital outputs, but it has no variable output on analogue!
Is this better :lolsign:
Not really! ;)
If you'd said: "has no variable output on analogue or digital" it would have been clearer. :)
Is this better :lolsign:
The 'XB-930QS' has both Optical & Coax digital outputs, but it has no variable output on analogue!
Andre I know better than to pick you up on technicalities I was just hoping you knew something about the XB930 I didn't as a variable output on this player would be very useful to me
Rare Bird
03-07-2010, 15:27
Andre I know better than to pick you up on technicalities I was just hoping you knew something about the XB930 I didn't as a variable output on this player would be very useful to me
You can actually vary the output on the '930' remote but it resets when you switch the machine off, thats no good for me. Anyway the question being is optical really that bad? All the other technicalities mentioned were aimed more at what i'm wanting from the machine nothing really to doo with the main question, just to give a picture ..
Any good recommendations for optical as i only use a QED 'Performance' optical lead, never really bothered with optical before till i bought the 'X222ES' machine!! I've always took very expensive optical leads as a bit of a con tbh..Maybe this QEDlead is as good as it gets with opticals?
I can suggest two:
Glass : http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=40_17
or fiber : http://www.hificables.co.uk/11739/Atlas-Fibre-Optics.html
HighFidelityGuy
03-07-2010, 16:02
Personally I've so far not heard any difference between coax and optical in my system, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Although I'd recommend you try both to be sure. However, the bit I don't understand is why you need the variable analogue output on the CD player if you're going to be using an external DAC? Or have I missed something?
Rare Bird
03-07-2010, 17:42
Personally I've so far not heard any difference between coax and optical in my system, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Very very small difference in Bass with optical
However, the bit I don't understand is why you need the variable analogue output on the CD player if you're going to be using an external DAC? Or have I missed something?
:lolsign: :doh:
<snip>Any good recommendations for optical as i only use a QED 'Performance' optical lead, never really bothered with optical before till i bought the 'X222ES' machine!! I've always took very expensive optical leads as a bit of a con tbh..Maybe this QEDlead is as good as it gets with opticals?</snip>
I don't know about the QED, but for what it's worth over the past 3 years I've subjectively compared several optical cables. No silly A-B crap, I mean living with them in my system and getting intimate with the signatures. Overall there was not a lot of huge differences, but a couple (like some freebies) did sound "wrong". There was even a $30 one that didn't do it for me.
Overall I came to the opinion that glass core is better than polymer. Not to say that there's not a good polymer, I just wasn't willing to pay big money to find out.
But from what I have read the critical elements of optical are the connector plugs, the polishing, the vibration dampening, and the quality of the conductor itself. While not susceptible to EMI I hear that optical is more susceptible to breaking, crushing, vibration, and plug misalignment. I learned this after choosing my favorite one and that one happened to be glass fiber, had a plug that snapped in firmly with no jiggle, and the conductor is covered with some soft rubbery materials which I would guess is meant to absorb vibration? Maybe Mark Grant could break it down for us?
But all this rambling aside I bet that QED is probably pretty darn good for the price. But remember it wouldn't really be fair to compare a $30 optical to a $200 coax, which is what I think goes on a lot of times.
I've been thinking about some of those ones that I have that seem to have an ok construction but aren't quite up to it, what would happen if I tried to micro-polish the ends. Maybe the people making them just didn't take the extra 5 minutes to make them what they could have been? And if I ruin it, oh well it was a freebie anyways.
Something like this:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5016627_polish-ends-glass-fiberoptic-cable.html
Yes they are!
Despite the over-hype'd immunity to RFI, the use of an optical link requires the addition of two electro-optical converters. Any additional series components, or process can only be a bad thing. It doesn't matter that it is still in the digital domain: these components are not perfect and can add artifacts of their own.
Best to use an electrical interface, and use a well constructed RF cable as an interconnect.
Regards
I have heard very small differences between a co-ax and an AES connection, but never heard any differences between an optical and co-ax to be honest.
As I understand it, Andre is driving his power amp straight out of the XE-222S? I too am baffled where the need for digital output when he doesn't have a DAC at the moment, doesn't have a line level pre-amp and not keen to buy one either, so is Andre thinking way ahead and us Luddites not? ;)
serendipitydawg
04-07-2010, 06:25
I have a Beresford TC-7510 which has two coax and two optical inputs.
This makes it easy to compare coax and optical cables as my Pioneer DV 565A DVD player (which I use mainly as a CD transport) has both coax and optical outputs which can be connected simultaneously.
I also have these Beresford-supplied cables. The first is coaxial, the second is optical
http://www.beresford.me/products/TRC-2222.html
http://www.beresford.me/products/TC-36182.html
On my modest system I can discern absolutely no difference between opical and coaxial, and they both sound mighty fine.
So to answer the question "Are optical outputs that bad?" IMHO absolutely not.
Yes they are!
Despite the over-hype'd immunity to RFI, the use of an optical link requires the addition of two electro-optical converters. Any additional series components, or process can only be a bad thing. It doesn't matter that it is still in the digital domain: these components are not perfect and can add artifacts of their own.
Best to use an electrical interface, and use a well constructed RF cable as an interconnect.
Regards
Exactly. It's all in the conversion.
Optical gets a bad rap because it is in the minority. If all audio components were based on light based circuits instead of electrical based ones, no need for conversion, no loss:)
CD
dave2010
04-07-2010, 13:42
I've been thinking about some of those ones that I have that seem to have an ok construction but aren't quite up to it, what would happen if I tried to micro-polish the ends. Maybe the people making them just didn't take the extra 5 minutes to make them what they could have been? And if I ruin it, oh well it was a freebie anyways.
Something like this:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5016627_polish-ends-glass-fiberoptic-cable.htmlJames
I doubt whether messing around with the ends of fibre, or trying to do your own is going to be worth it, but this page - a link from your reference - http://www.lanshack.com/fiber-optic-tutorial-termination.aspx - does suggest that cleaning with alcohol might be helpful.
Before connection and testing, it is advisable to clean connectors with lint-free wipes moistened with isopropyl alcohol.
James
I doubt whether messing around with the ends of fibre, or trying to do your own is going to be worth it, but this page - a link from your reference - http://www.lanshack.com/fiber-optic-tutorial-termination.aspx - does suggest that cleaning with alcohol might be helpful.
That might be worth a try. I'm sure they get dirty. People use contact cleaner on RCAs, why not alcohol on optical right?
Guess he is using a power amp. so need some sort of volume control.
I have heard that it is best to avoid digital volume controls cos they work by reducing the bitstream.
If you are using the 'X222ES' that has a variable analogue output, why not feed that direct to the power amp?
If you don't like the sound, feed the digital out to a DAC with a built in pre-amp such as the Breresford DAC.
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