View Full Version : Anyone made a Frugelhorn Lite speaker kit ?
In an attempt to fill in some time during the CV lockdown I've decided to build up a pair of speakers from a kit, the Frugelhorn Lite slim floor standers, I'll be using in them the Mark Audio Alpair 5 Generation 3 full range drivers. I have ordered the kit and drivers from KJF Audio and should have them in 3 days time. I'd be interested to know if there are any forum members who have a pair of these speakers either with the same or different drivers as I realise there are quite a few options available. Would appreciate opinions on sound quality, bass response etc. Thanks.
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Audio Al
25-04-2020, 11:24
In an attempt to fill in some time during the CV lockdown I've decided to build up a pair of speakers from a kit, the Frugelhorn Lite slim floor standers, I'll be using in them the Mark Audio Alpair 5 Generation 3 full range drivers. I have ordered the kit and drivers from KJF Audio and should have them in 3 days time. I'd be interested to know if there are any forum members who have a pair of these speakers either with the same or different drivers as I realise there are quite a few options available. Would appreciate opinions on sound quality, bass response etc. Thanks.
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Woooo we like a speaker build project , lots of photos please :D
walpurgis
25-04-2020, 11:32
Good luck. I have a horn speaker project to start, but can't get materials at the moment. Not buying any that I haven't looked at personally.
Well I managed to get started on the build yesterday, here's a few pics.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/f11d5e3418fd986ebfc308a5926631d7.jpg
Running in the drivers before they get installed in the cabinets.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/d5bda8338a0888b8aeaf435f249e724b.jpg
Flatpack panels not including the internal bracing/horn.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/e7031b96dbdce2a689175bee28e3549a.jpg
Panels taped in position to check joint alignment.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/283f1023a451f23cc1de1e17bdf08475.jpg
Part of behind driver damping.
Top, bottom, one side panel and front baffle of both cabinets have been glued, just waiting on arrival of some extra long binding posts, ones I bought originally are too short, need to install them and the connecting cables before the final panels are glued. If I had very small hands it could possibly done through the driver aperture, unfortunately I haven't.
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ianlenco
29-04-2020, 11:33
I've built the Frugelhorn and Frugelhorn XL kits before but yours is the first "lite" build I've seen, very cute. Re long binding posts, I've used these before but you have to make sure they are very, very tight. The first time I used them they came a little loose and of course they are impossible to tighten once you've glued up the cabinets. Alternatives are to get a plate and posts - HiFi Collective do a nice one from Janzen or mount the posts behind the driver where you can get at them if they do loosen.
Have fun!
I've built the Frugelhorn and Frugelhorn XL kits before but yours is the first "lite" build I've seen, very cute. Re long binding posts, I've used these before but you have to make sure they are very, very tight. The first time I used them they came a little loose and of course they are impossible to tighten once you've glued up the cabinets. Alternatives are to get a plate and posts - HiFi Collective do a nice one from Janzen or mount the posts behind the driver where you can get at them if they do loosen.
Have fun!
Ian, the binding posts I'm getting are via KJF Audio (should have bought them in the first place) and they have washer with a protrusion that fits into a machined notch in the holes in the baffle, these prevent the posts rotating and coming loose.
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ianlenco
29-04-2020, 17:35
Sounds like you've got it sorted then :)
Set about completing the build today as the binding posts arrived this morning.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/838b33e7be49bcf926c2c3b3c272f0ab.jpg
They were expensive at £30 for 4 but I have to say they are the weightiest and best engineered I've ever seen so are worth the money.
Here's a cab in the final stages.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/798b5a332203b76d9433a1e949e79c96.jpg
And one I completed earlier.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200429/96a85199f9973ba6ebade3a223334b1f.jpg
Once the first cabinet was completed I couldn't resist the temptation to install the driver and have a listen, good job my Cambridge CXA60 has got a balance control so I could funnel all the music into one channel.
My initial impressions are somewhat tinged with awe, I find it astonishing how a speaker with a 3" driver can produce such a big sound, particularly as it's only coming from a single speaker, sure it's not going to make the floor shake, but what bass there is, is fast and tight and surprisingly weighty, pretty obvious the designer of the Frugelhorn really knows what he's doing. I would estimate bass has decent output down to about 55-60hz, possibility it could go lower with more run in hours on the driver, Mark Audio state it can take up to 100 hours playing time to reach optimum, mine have only had about 15 hours so far so there could be better to come. Hopefully be able to get the second speaker hooked up and playing before the end of the day. Once I've had a good listen to the stereo pair it will be time to strip out the drivers, sand down any rough edges and get them painted.
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Very impressive build and sounds like it may be worth it :)
ianlenco
30-04-2020, 07:42
They look great! One thing Mark Audio recommends is that the drivers are run in for 100 hours with very low volume. Don't exactly know why they should be so delicate but that's what I did with mine - mounted in cardboard baffles and connected up to a spare system playing music on a loop.
Got the second cabinet completed and the pair have been in use in the bedroom since yesterday evening. As to the running in of the drivers I queried that with Stefan at KJF Audio, he said in his experience with all the MA drivers the recommended low volume running in isn't set in stone and provided restraint is exercised early on in their life they should provide many years of musical pleasure. I don't play music at very high volume levels anyhow, at my 2.5-3 metres listening distance my average listening level is only about 60-65dbs with the odd peak to 70dbs, that equates to an input of a few hundred milliwatts into the drivers which is unlikely to to cause them any stress.
I spent the rest of yesterday evening and a little after midnight listening to a broad selection of music, initial impressions are very favourable, the usual full range driver benefits of openness and clarity across the frequency range are on show as are dynamics and speed, unlike some full range drivers giving a "hot seat" character the Alpair 5.3 seems to have very wide dispersion and are quite uncritical of listener position which is a real plus point in my book. They major on the conveyance of emotional content in vocals probably better than any other speakers I've owned which makes for a captivating listening experience.
The Frugelhorn Lite cabinet design is obviously tailored to suit the driver perfectly, observing the driver closely while listening to music with a decent amount of bass content showed only the most minimal amount of cone excursion, probably well under 1mm yet a decent level of bass was filling the room, impressive.
Although the cabinet is obviously instrumental in the bass response it would appear to be rigid and well damped enough so as not to generate any colouration to the sound, compared to my usual speaker the Q Acoustics Concept 20s with their high tech Gelcore sandwich cabinets the evenness of the sound balance and lack of box effects are on a par with one another which is quite an achievement for the FHL.
I'm just currently awaiting the arrival of a set of spike inserts and spikes for the cabinet bases which should tighten up the bass a bit more as well as making it easier for me to get them properly levelled, I'm also toying with the idea of treating the cabinets with Danish Oil and wax to bring out the natural grain of the Baltic Birch Plywood rather than painting them.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200430/75dd5251352f0137e6d2fb54be916275.jpg
I've built the Frugelhorn and Frugelhorn XL kits before but yours is the first "lite" build I've seen, very cute. Re long binding posts, I've used these before but you have to make sure they are very, very tight. The first time I used them they came a little loose and of course they are impossible to tighten once you've glued up the cabinets. Alternatives are to get a plate and posts - HiFi Collective do a nice one from Janzen or mount the posts behind the driver where you can get at them if they do loosen.
Have fun!
The binding posts are the Janzen ones and they are visible directly behind the driver aperture, I've tightened them very securely with the nut onto the spring washer so it's highly unlikely they will work loose, it is actually possible to get my hand in through the driver aperture, although the first time I did it I scraped the back of my hand on the sharp machined edges of the driver cutout so I've smoothed off all the edges with my Dremel and a sanding cylinder just in case I need to reach inside again at some point.
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Pete The Cat
01-05-2020, 06:51
Articles like this make AoS a joy to read.
Thank you for posting.
Pete
ianlenco
01-05-2020, 07:36
Glad you are enjoying your Alpairs, they are excellent drivers. Your description of the sound I totally agree with. Full rangers that have no crossover do have a seductive immediacy. As to run in, Stefan is a knowledgable guy so I am sure his advice is sound.
Since I took the first photo I’ve swapped the speakers so the FHLs are now to the outside and wider apart and slightly angled in, I’ve also fitted spikes to the bases, have set the front spikes longer to slightly angle the speakers upwards to good effect, although as the speaker bases are quite deep front to back it doesn't alter the angle very much, maybe a couple of degrees,the wider spacing has done wonders for the soundstage and imagery, also now the drivers have passed the 30 hour mark they are noticeably improving, the slight hardness they had straight out of the box has subsided and they’re starting to sound a lot more refined, repeated the YouTube low frequency test sweep I did on day one which had them cutting off at just under 55hz, today there was still output admittedly at a low level to just under 40hz, I think when fully broken in they may be solid down to 40hz, if so I’d be more than happy with that.
I’m just waiting for a tube of light wood filler to arrive so I can sort out a small number of slight imperfections on the cabs and then I can get them sanded smooth and treated with a few coats of Danish Oil and wax.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200503/227bcbfac0841731b15ea87690b6c28c.jpg
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Yesterday I made a start on finishing off the cabinets, I tested out applying Danish Oil on one of the rear unseen surfaces and tbh I wasn't impressed, it looked pretty horrible, very patchy and blotchy grain, also in the regions where I'd used the wood filler there was no take up of the Danish Oil's colour and it stood out like a sore thumb. Because of this I've reverted back to my initial intention which is to spray paint them Satin white. Gave the speakers 2 coats of primer yesterday leaving a couple of hours between coats and smoothing down after each with a scotch pad. Put on the first coat of Satin white which is the first of 3 or 4 coats, having made mistakes previously by putting following coats on too soon I'm going to leave a full day between each coat and rubbing down after each coat, hopefully that will give me a good quality finish.
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Sounds goods - looking forward to seeing how they turn out.
To finish the FHLs off and to make the slim cabinets more stable I've been hunting round to try and find some reasonably priced base outriggers. Was lucky enough to spot some on ebay that were standard fitting on the Kef Q Series floor standers. Won the auction for them this morning, £26 including postage, absolute bargain price, I reckon when they were available they'd probably have cost about £100.
Here's a Dutch YT vid of fitting.
https://youtu.be/-Hix97JRr6M
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Outriggers arrived this morning and are now fitted, really delighted with them, speakers are a lot more stable and being able to adjust the spike’s height from above with an Allen key makes levelling a doddle, spikes are pretty long so raise the speakers a little over an inch more than the standard spikes so getting the drivers closer to ear level. While I had the speakers downstairs I took the opportunity to try them on my main setup with my Rega Brio, as I anticipated the SQ moved up a couple of notches compared to the CXA60 in the bedroom, more weight and solidity at the bottom end and just generally more refinement.
Think the SQ will improve when I change to an outboard DAC with the CXA60, have got a Topping D30 on order but no doubt it could take a while to arrive.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/696d12dbb00c34ab3b43990cb8bce713.jpg
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As I explained in my last post I ordered a Topping D30 DAC which I've now had installed in the setup for just over 2 weeks, as I expected the DAC has made a noticeable improvement in SQ over the onboard DAC in the CXA60, better dynamics and improved refinement.
Now the FHLs have probably passed 300 hours they have improved considerably to how they sounded after the 100 hours recommended break in period for the drivers, initially higher volume levels sounded a touch strained, now the speakers within their limits have an effortless quality to their sound. I have to say the FHLs have exceeded my expectations by a considerable margin, tbh building them was a bit of a punt which has worked out extremely well.
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hoopsontoast
30-06-2020, 07:42
I made a pair from KJF (his first FHL kit) a few years back....
With and without some outriggers stolen from my Rega R9 speakers at the time. They certainly would make a great discrete system, as they are designed to work in corners, maybe combined with a small sealed subwoofer to fill out the bottom end.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4174/34398200232_a18ea61eb8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UpDLvN)
Frugelhorn Lite (https://flic.kr/p/UpDLvN) by Robert Seymour (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/4181/34372517631_7d22fb5392_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Uno8Yk)
System (https://flic.kr/p/Uno8Yk) by Robert Seymour (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr
As I explained in my last post I ordered a Topping D30 DAC which I've now had installed in the setup for just over 2 weeks, as I expected the DAC has made a noticeable improvement in SQ over the onboard DAC in the CXA60, better dynamics and improved refinement.
Now the FHLs have probably passed 300 hours they have improved considerably to how they sounded after the 100 hours recommended break in period for the drivers, initially higher volume levels sounded a touch strained, now the speakers within their limits have an effortless quality to their sound. I have to say the FHLs have exceeded my expectations by a considerable margin, tbh building them was a bit of a punt which has worked out extremely well.
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I built a pair several yearss ago and remember that mouth open moment when I realised I could build a set of speakers using a tiny driver and no crossover for less than a few hundred pounds that would trounce more expensive traditional ones, in many, if not all ways.
nudgebutton
08-07-2020, 19:03
they look fantastic Steve Z..im really keen to hear some frugelhorns someday..
great work
Thank you for sharing your build Steve,.
They look great and glad to hear that you are enjoying the finished product.
Thank you for sharing your build Steve,.
They look great and glad to hear that you are enjoying the finished product.
Thanks for the comments guys, much appreciated.
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I realise that this is a pretty old thread but I just thought I'd stick in an additional. The Frugelhorn Lites have got several hundred hours on them now and full break in did take quite a time and the sound quality has steadily improved, bass extension in particular got better as the hours piled on, sub 40hz is now available.
For quite a while I've had the tube amp itch that I've been eager to scratch, so I took the plunge and bought a Reisong A10 a single ended Class A tube amp. It was a real punt as all I had to go on were numerous online and Youtube reviews. I've had the amp now for almost 2 months and it has proved to have pretty incredible synergy with the Frugelhorn Lites and has displaced the Cambridge CXA60 in my bedroom setup (CXA60 now sold on). I had misgivings about matching issues with the relatively low sensitivity of Alpair 5.3 drivers at 85db/w and the A10s power ceiling of only 6wpc, these thankfully have proved inconsequential and the amp drives the FHLs beautifully, the sound balance is more to my liking than from the CXA60 as there is a bit more bass weight and warmth which gives a nicer balance.
On the recommendation of a tube aficionado friend of mine I also tried a bit of "tube rolling" and replaced the 2 6n2p pre tubes with a pair of Russian made Voshkod Rocket tubes which have improved the airiness of the top end to good effect for an outlay of just £20. With the results I've had I can wholeheartedly recommend the Reisong A10/Frugelhorn Lite combo.
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Tony,
(Wee Tee Cee) here on AOS is a bit of an authority on the Frugelhorns, he's had a couple of sets if I'm right?
Heard them at his, they are wonderful sounding things.
Having been listening to the Frugelhorn Lite/Reisong A10 for quite a while my initial findings which were perhaps tinged with a hint of expectation bias have now changed somewhat, the combination still sounds excellent within volume constraints but unfortunately the very low power of the Reisong severely limits the sound particularly on wide dynamic range programme material where the lack of headroom really shows up, so regrettably I've taken the FHLs out of service and have substituted a pair of higher sensitivity speakers which the Reisong amp is more comfortable with. The speakers are the Mission QX2 standmounts, I was lucky enough to pick up a mint condition used pair off ebay for just £160, a real bargain considering their original RRP of £399, I bought them on the strength of a WHF 2018 award and a recommended tag from Hifi Choice having not auditioned them prior to purchase. Although only 3dbs more sensitive you have to consider that for a given volume that means they need half the power that the FHLs require. As sensitivity measurements are usually taken at 1khz the QX2s actually appear even louder than 3dbs more due to the fuller low end that they possess compared to the FHLs, because of that the Reisong has a lot more headroom in reserve.
Much as I've loved my time with them the FHLs are now up for sale [emoji853]
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