Thoughts on a replacement for a Linn Axis

[sluggish]

I think it may be time for something else. I've gone down the Rega (too thin) and Linn (too Linn) paths, and am ready for a new direction. I don't mind buying used, but I don't want to get into some never-ending Garrard plinth making project, and I'd prefer to stay under $1,500 excluding cartridge. Any ideas?

[Batty]

Rock

[John]

A second hand 1210 with a decent power supply would eaisly hit that price point you might even be a new one with power supply

[DSJR]

You have a good choice in the US I reckon.. Anything by VPI in your price range?

TBH, for *overall* music enjoyment it's not going to be difficult to beat an ageing Axis, I mean, a cleaned up and arm-fettled Lenco GL75 wopped a new one into touch, the Lenco in springy Goldring plinth and with original arm, which I still don't think is anything like as bad as the snobs would have you believe.

The Techie is the easy one as parts shouldn't be a real problem, there are plenty of tweaks available now and the thing looks neat.

P.S. If Rega's sound too lean toned, it *may* just be that they're reproducing the often mid-boosted vinyl as it really is, rather than *charming* what's there. Just a thought, and anyway, one of their cartridges (the Exact is coming into its own now its competition has increased in price) will balance this nicely.

[Jason P]

Vote 2 for a Rock, if you can get one. They really do something remarkable, i you can get around the faff of the trough - I like it though, makes playing more of a ritual - but maybe that's just me. :mental:

Seriously thinking about getting one. You should be able to pick one up for less than 1k.

Jason

[sluggish]

Thanks to all for the input. I'd thought about a rock, but how much of a problem is the goo? As for Rega, I've had both a 3 and 25. The 25 was mounted on a proper Rega wall bracket, and it was fitted with a Denon 103r. I liked it, but it lacked something (I'm not sure what, just something). The Axis was an ebay cheapie, bought to fill in after the rega. As for the Technics -- which is better, older or newer for 1200s and 1210s? And maybe I'm still under the influence of Linn, but can a disco-era Japanese direct drive turntable really sound good?

[sluggish]

It looks like there's tons to read here about the technics -- I'll catch up...

[Hypnotoad]

As for the Technics -- which is better, older or newer for 1200s and 1210s? And maybe I'm still under the influence of Linn, but can a disco-era Japanese direct drive turntable really sound good?

If you want to know about a Technics, you have arrived at the promised land, all questions will be answered.:lol:

[sluggish]

OK, still going thru the technics/DD threads but I'm gathering that these things do indeed play rather well. But I'm confused (or maybe amused) a bit here when it comes to the history of these things: weren't the '70s era Japanese DD turntables the objects of comparison Linn had in mind when they conjured up the Tune Dem? If they were, and if they are as good as or better than the LP12 in tunefulness, then how did Linn manage this feet of suggestibility?

[DSJR]

IVOR!!!!!!!!!!!!

The LP12 in the mid seventies made crap UK pressings sound more enjoyable whereas the Rega's and all the better direct driven competition sounded more "straight." Marco and I were discussing this a few months ago - the current LP12 is almost un-recognisable from the 1981 version with Ittok (but not the original with Grace 707).

I'm a Notts Analogue fan. Even the AceSpace is more musical than a typical mid period LP12 and does good and proper things with tonality, pitch non-wavering and 3-D image/soundstage that most LP12's out there cannot match.

Linn of all people have had first hand experience of master-recordings, analogue and digital and can refer the LP12 to these. I heard how awful the late eighties LP12/Ittok/Troika was when comparing the LP and 12" 45rpm Blue Nile tracks with the analogue master tape played on the machine the cuts were made from. Their response to me was that all vinyl is crap but their crap was better than everyone elses. Since then we've had motor and plinth refinements, the Cirkus, three versions at least of Ekos and Lingo, several cartridges and now a further power supply, Keel and internal phono stage, each one taking the LP12 way down the line from the "fruitbox" of old and at ridiculous prices too.

It's difficult for me this, but if you hanker after an LP12, find a good late eighties/early nineties one minus Cirkus but with a good bearing and the corner bolt near the motor - s/n 88*** to 90**** approx and then get the Rubycon sub/armboard. You should find setup manageable as long as you download the setup manual and take great care with the cable dressing and clamping.

You know, all this above makes a tuned basic Techie or well sited Rega P7 a far better bet for most people...

[sluggish]

Dave, I think I practically just parroted you a moment ago. And I remember those damn Blue Nile tracks! Walk Across the Rooftops -- did that actually sell as music over there?

I never heard a Nots, but I hear good things about them. I almost bought one (spacedeck) unheard before I bought the P25, but was afraid it would sound boring somehow. My thinking had to do with the old anti-mass bias.

[DSJR]

The Spacedeck DOESN'T sound in the slightest boring and is one of the very few decks which worked well with a Rega RB arm, the pillar height being adjustable and, IMO, the collet style clamp helping the sound to free up.

The Blue Nile albums made for Linn are almost forgotten treasures, the masters I heard showing incredible emotion from the singer and the sparse arrangements setting up such amazing sound-scapes. I love these two albums to bits, along with the B sides and occasional remixes/instrumentals.

[sluggish]

Sorry, Dave, I came across as way too snide there. But to me the Blue Nile always came across as a guy whining and a bunch of slap bass, which seemed to be a Linn contrivance to show off all that pitch definition and emotion. That, and my taste is pretty much shit anyway.

[Batty]

Thanks to all for the input. I'd thought about a rock, but how much of a problem is the goo? As for Rega, I've had both a 3 and 25. The 25 was mounted on a proper Rega wall bracket, and it was fitted with a Denon 103r. I liked it, but it lacked something (I'm not sure what, just something). The Axis was an ebay cheapie, bought to fill in after the rega. As for the Technics -- which is better, older or newer for 1200s and 1210s? And maybe I'm still under the influence of Linn, but can a disco-era Japanese direct drive turntable really sound good?

The 'goo' is not a problem, I have replaced the original with AO fluid which is thinner and comes with a pipette so you can suck it up when servicing the TT (every 20 or so years). I have an AO RB250 on mine with a lowly DL-110. Very very involving I love mine and wouldn't part with it, unless someone gave me a rock reference :) Accurate and musical from the same TT, you bet ya bottom dollar

[hifi_dave]

Sorry, Dave, I came across as way too snide there. But to me the Blue Nile always came across as a guy whining and a bunch of slap bass, which seemed to be a Linn contrivance to show off all that pitch definition and emotion. That, and my taste is pretty much shit anyway.

Just goes to show how subjective these things are. Back in the 80's, those Blue Nile recordings used to send me screaming to 'the rooftops'. They were very popular with the customers of the time but I f'ing hated/hate the music with a vengeance. The recordings were OK, it's the music....:steam:

[Joe]

Just goes to show how subjective these things are. Back in the 80's, those Blue Nile recordings used to send me screaming to 'the rooftops'. They were very popular with the customers of the time but I f'ing hated/hate the music with a vengeance. The recordings were OK, it's the music....:steam:

I always made a point of bringing my own music to hifi demonstrations, rather than suffer the dreaded jazz-rock that was on permanent play. A quick blast of 'Search and Destroy' by Iggy and the Stooges usually got the helpful assistant out of the room.

[DSJR]

"I leave the home of a lifetime, like any son
I have hope and good intentions
I'm wandering into the daybreak, I learn as I go
To fall laughing, into the water

The sticks and the stones
Are your broken promises
We wait too long
To go from rags to riches....."



Believe me, the sound on these masters even made PASSIVE Isobariks sound good

My CD's are second issue CD (Rooftops) and first issue (Hats) and IMO they both need remastering from the 30IPS tapes (no noise reduction and half inch IIRC) with modern SBM multi-bit technology. having said that, I'm playing "Stay" via my headphones on the laptop and it sounds really good :scratch:



"I write a new book every day, A love theme for the wilderness

A love theme.."



Pure bliss............................................

[sluggish]

Joe, can't agree more about bringing your own music! Has anybody ever brought music the love, but that sounds horrible, to demo with so that they can concentrate on purely musical, as opposed to sonic, values? Or are these two things too interrelated?

[DSJR]

Just take along a small selection of varied stuff you like and have a listen - not too critically 'cos you'll tire very quickly.

The best dems are more casual and with gallons of tea and coffee. Once the sales guy has got to know you and the basics are out of the way, he/she should be able to leave you for a while just listening....

[Joe]

Joe, can't agree more about bringing your own music! Has anybody ever brought music the love, but that sounds horrible, to demo with so that they can concentrate on purely musical, as opposed to sonic, values? Or are these two things too interrelated?

Some recordings sound good through all but the worst systems. A good 'anti-test' record for me is 'Parallel Lines'' by Blondie. On even a quite good system, it sounds like it was recorded through a sock; only the very best manage to lift the veil, so it sounds like it was recorded through a pair of tights.

[Ian Walker]

Some recordings sound good through all but the worst systems. A good 'anti-test' record for me is 'Parallel Lines'' by Blondie. On even a quite good system, it sounds like it was recorded through a sock; only the very best manage to lift the veil, so it sounds like it was recorded through a pair of tights.

Ah yes it takes me back that,ive actualy heard that sounding as though it was recorded through a pair o tights with the panties still inside:lol:

[Marco]

I must resist, I must resist.............. :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

The Spacedeck DOESN'T sound in the slightest boring and is one of the very few decks which worked well with a Rega RB arm, the pillar height being adjustable and, IMO, the collet style clamp helping the sound to free up.

The Blue Nile albums made for Linn are almost forgotten treasures, the masters I heard showing incredible emotion from the singer and the sparse arrangements setting up such amazing sound-scapes. I love these two albums to bits, along with the B sides and occasional remixes/instrumentals.


Saw the Blue Nile live a few years ago and it was one of those magical concerts that will stay with me for many years. The quality of playing and the sheer emotion was breathtaking imho.

There are two more recent albums that are also very good Peace at Last and High. I can see though that for some their music and Paul Buchanan's voice might be like Marmite (for our foreign members, a paste for use on bread that many like but a lot hate, me included) but I love both :)


Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

Why does Paul Buchanan sound like he's going to commit suicide on "Peace at last?"

Apologies, I don't like the later albums. I just don't get them the same way..

[aquapiranha]

Ah yes it takes me back that,ive actualy heard that sounding as though it was recorded through a pair o tights with the panties still inside:lol:

Just for the record, have the panties been worn? I am sure there would be a difference.


Neil, I wish I had seen the Blue Nile live, I really like the music that I have by them (A walk across the rooftops, hats and peace at last.

[sluggish]

Did Debbie Harry ever actually wear panties?

[Hypnotoad]

I remember someone saying that Debbie Harry looked too young for the kind of things she made people want to do to her.

[Marco]

Just for the record, have the panties been worn?

What, in your experience, are the tell-tale signs? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

Rock

Just don't make that a Rock Mk II. That has to be the most appalling turntable I have ever owned.

[aquapiranha]

What, in your experience, are the tell-tale signs? :eyebrows:

Marco.

No idea, it's been ages since I saw some! :lol:

[Haselsh1]

Just goes to show how subjective these things are. Back in the 80's, those Blue Nile recordings used to send me screaming to 'the rooftops'. They were very popular with the customers of the time but I f'ing hated/hate the music with a vengeance. The recordings were OK, it's the music....:steam:

Dreaful eighties dogshite... The Blue Nile that is. Did anything good in music come out of the eighties...???

[hifi_dave]

Errrrr......... Kid Creole & The Coconuts

[DSJR]

Dreaful eighties dogshite... The Blue Nile that is. Did anything good in music come out of the eighties...???

Play "Hats" through your Croft amps and come back and tell me they're dogshite! :steam: