Wanted: Denon DL-S1 or 304 or 103R cartridges

[Colin151]

Looking to any of these cartridges. Preferably a DL-S1 but all 3 considered

[RobbieGong]

Item appears very good, 100% positive feedback too https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283764766842

Might be worth pinging them a message to engage with the seller, get a feel, ask a few questions ie: history and approx hours etc

[Colin151]

Thanks for the heads up. I must say that’s a bit of a risk. A lot of money for a used cartridge with unknown hours! I remember when the DL-S1 was £400 from Japan, the DL304 was £170 and DL103 was £90, although Denon didn’t increase their cartridge prices for about 25 years at that time. They eventually went up, but that price is still higher than the DL-S1 ever was new!
Perhaps I’d consider it if it was sealed and unused, but I can’t risk that much on a used cartridges. It’s an eBay Germany seller, so I guess the high price is to be expected.
Item appears very good, 100% positive feedback too https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283764766842

Might be worth pinging them a message to engage with the seller, get a feel, ask a few questions ie: history and approx hours etc

[RobbieGong]

Yeah I hear ya. I know they're quite rare now, so it's about waiting to see if a new one turns up, or as good as, somewhere.

Last one on eBay was early last month - went for similar money, but new, so they do/can show up https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABSOLUTELY-NEW-Denon-DL-S1-MC-Cartridge-Original-Box-etc/402115669083?hash=item5d9ff62c5b:g:MRAAAOSwGnpeUw8 9

[Colin151]

Thanks for the info. That’s appreciated. Yeah as they are discontinued they are getting rarer in good shape or new. Although I haven’t tried it I think the DL-S1 is likely to be a cartridge I’d absolutely love. I had the DL304 many times (bought several when they cost £170) and loved the detailed and musical sound (although a bit on the thin and bright side) . If the S1 is similar to the 304 but with better bass and a fuller sound/more neutral tone (which it indeed was from the review I read) I’d think it might be close to my perfect cartridge. I know a few years back people were trying them on this forum and really liked them. I’d certainly consider $1000 for a new one. I reckon there might be a fair chance of finding a new one from the USA.
Yeah I hear ya. I know there quite rare now, so it's about waiting to see if a new one turns up. Last one on eBay was early last month - went for similar money, but new, so they do/can show up https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABSOLUTELY-NEW-Denon-DL-S1-MC-Cartridge-Original-Box-etc/402115669083?hash=item5d9ff62c5b:g:MRAAAOSwGnpeUw8 9

[RobbieGong]

Marco has had a fair few Denon mc's and i know he speaks highly of the DL S1.

He'll be able to tell you what you can expect from one :)

[Pharos]

I have just bought a new 304 on Ebay from Germany, and am about to try it. (Within 1dB right through to 50k) I think it a lovely cartridge and I could not justify anything better with my deck, and what I consider to be the inherent limitations of vinyl.
(Puts a suit of armour on, ready for onslaught).

[Colin151]

Thanks Guys,
Would certainly be v interested to hear how the S1 fares against some other high end carts and also the 304 too.

I found with the 304 that the lack of fullness and slightly bright sound got to me in the longer term. It’s still a very nice cartridge though. Kind of opposite balance to the standard 103 which I also liked but thought was a bit too dull and thick sounding. The views I’ve read on the DL-S1 have said it’s tonally pretty much spot on, unlike most of Denon’s others carts. Perhaps the DL110 and DL103D are also quite neutral but much cheaper items which lack the refinement of the S1. (and 103D sadly discontinued for many years now).

[Colin151]

Bump. I guess my bet is a DL304, if anyone has one they might sell.

[RobbieGong]

Bump. I guess my bet is a DL304, if anyone has one they might sell.

If you're after a DL-S1 and have the funds, then my advise would be to hold out for one.

In my 'hi-fi' experience (for what it's worth), you'll only end up going there anyway, so your compromise will always be just that, until you obtain what you really want :)

[RobbieGong]

Surprised Marco hasn't popped over, Richard Dickinson style to give his advise about the DL-S1 which I know he likes a lot :D

[Made in 1968]

Hes probably working on an Answer, be patient

:lolsign:

[Colin151]

If you're after a DL-S1 and have the funds, then my advise would be to hold out for one.

In my 'hi-fi' experience (for what it's worth), you'll only end up going there anyway, so your compromise will always be just that, until you obtain what you really want :)

I think you’re probably right! (and the S1 is the top Denon so there isn’t any further to to go Denon wise) but a 304 might fill the stop gap until I can find a DL-S1. It’s such a shame Denon stopped making these two great cartridges. I wonder if there’s any chance they’ll start producing then again in the future?. IIRC they stopped making the 304 at one point, only to start production again later on. I guess they also permanently stopped making cartridges like the DL103D too though (although I don’t think it was ever available in the UK. I’d love to hear one.)

[walpurgis]

I would sooner live with the 103R than the 304. The DL-304 is detailed, clean and refined, but I found it too polite and a little short on drive for my tastes. The DL-103R was punchier and more dynamic in my opinion. I didn't keep either all that long.

[Colin151]

I would sooner live with the 103R than the 304. The DL-304 is detailed, clean and refined, but I found it too polite and a little short on drive for my tastes. The DL-103R was punchier and more dynamic in my opinion. I didn't keep either all that long.

Agree with what you’re saying on the sound of the 304 and 103R as I’ve had both in the past, but I preferred the 304. A little thin and bright but very good detail yet smooth and musical too. The level of detail surpassed many other carts I had tried. Someone once told me it’s mostly because it has a pretty low effective tip mass for a cartridge in its price range. I bought an OC9 to try whilst I had a 304 and hated the OC9 it sounded to me so cold and mechanical compared to the 304. I know some people love them though. Always so subjective!

[RobbieGong]

Hes probably working on an Answer, be patient

:lolsign:

Someone drag Marco, kicking and screaming out of Abstract Chat please, looks like he's definitely forgot how to do hi-fi :rolleyes: :scratch:

[Pharos]

Agree with what you’re saying on the sound of the 304 and 103R as I’ve had both in the past, but I preferred the 304. A little thin and bright but very good detail yet smooth and musical too. The level of detail surpassed many other carts I had tried. Someone once told me it’s mostly because it has a pretty low effective tip mass for a cartridge in its price range. I bought an OC9 to try whilst I had a 304 and hated the OC9 it sounded to me so cold and mechanical compared to the 304. I know some people love them though. Always so subjective!

I had the OC9 just prior to the 304, to me it was very bright and sharp to the point of being offensive.
Part of my love of the 304 is its high compliance, and hence tenderness with the vinyl.

[Colin151]

Someone drag Marco, kicking and screaming out of Abstract Chat please, looks like he's definitely forgot how to do hi-fi :rolleyes: :scratch:

Haha:lol:

[Colin151]

I had the OC9 just prior to the 304, to me it was very bright and sharp to the point of being offensive.
Part of my love of the 304 is its high compliance, and hence tenderness with the vinyl.
Your experiences of the OC9 sound v similar to mine. I couldn’t cope with the OC9 at all. Way too bright and clinical sounding compared to the very musical and detailed ( but slightly bright) 304. Later on I tried an AT33EV and that was more palatable than the OC9. I think the PTG is even better. I still preferred the 304 to the AT33EV though.

Some people love the OC9 though like I say!

[oldius]

As the person who introduced Marco to the DL-S1, it is one of the best cartridges I have owned and certainly the purveyor of the sweetest treble detail. Its 0.15mv output means that it does not have widespread compatibility but get it right and you have a £2.5k cartridge by any of the 'boutique' makers.
It is a supremely balanced cartridge, fuller than the DL-304 but with no emphasis to any area so the question about bass is not a clear one to answer. It has no pronounced output in any area but will give you what is there with super insight but no sharpness or thud, just relaxed, tuneful detail. It is superb.

[oldius]

I do, but it is a cartridge that needs careful matching, including ears!

[mbic]

Why did you buy several 304’s? I have one which is used all the time.

[Colin151]

As the person who introduced Marco to the DL-S1, it is one of the best cartridges I have owned and certainly the purveyor of the sweetest treble detail. Its 0.15mv output means that it does not have widespread compatibility but get it right and you have a £2.5k cartridge by any of the 'boutique' makers.
It is a supremely balanced cartridge, fuller than the DL-304 but with no emphasis to any area so the question about bass is not a clear one to answer. It has no pronounced output in any area but will give you what is there with super insight but no sharpness or thud, just relaxed, tuneful detail. It is superb.

Wow the S1 sounds just perfect for my tastes. Boy I wish I had bought one when the price from Japan was £400 ish! The 304 also has v sweet treble detail but that thinness can get annoying.