What Croft combo to keep?

[ullogu1]

Hello from Los Angeles!

I'm having a really difficult time in knowing what to keep. Money is a factor, but SQ and more importantly, enjoyment, are important. I'm putting things in dollars but it'll give you an idea of where things are relatively. I'll keep what I need and sell the rest.

I have the following:

Preamps:

Croft Micro 25 (with phono) which sounds great $750
Croft Micro 25RS (line only) which sounds more refined and controlled but for me, not WOW better than the regular Micro $1200


Phono Stages:

Croft RIAA RS $1200
Tavish Vintage 6SLGT $600
the phono stage built into the regular Micro 25 $0


Speakers:

Harbeth P3ESR (next month-can't wait)



I realize these things are a matter of opinion and preference but---- what should I keep? I listen to Tidal streaming 60% of the time and 40% vinyl.

I'd appreciate any thoughts. Really difficult A/B them and am going crazy trying to hear differences. I'm imagining the Micro 25R with phono would be ideal but I cannot find this used here in the USA

[Pharos]

Many, indeed most on this forum would think that I am biased, but given the inherent limitations of vinyl I would keep the first pre, and sell the other with the phono stages.

I would also push you to SHL5s.

[IHP]

Hi Guillermo,

Welcome and all the best to you and LA :)

There's a few Croft enthusiasts here and I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice, which will vary !

First of all, Croft and Harbeth are a recognised as a winning combination, so whatever you choose to do you'll be fine. I've owned the 25, 25R and currently have the latter with the power supply to the RS, so somewhere in the middle of the two. They are all wonderful, the 25 being placed well away from typical 'entry level' in my opinion. I suppose I'd go for your RS with the RIAA phono stage. Obviously keeping the 25 with the phono stage is the lowest cost option but it is still a sound unit.

Of course you could have your RS upgraded to incorporate a phono stage by Glenn Croft (I think) but this would mean sending it across the pond, perhaps a consideration for when the world is straightened out, and it will be.

I've found with all used gear that your after that patience is your friend, so hanging on for a 25R with phono might be worthwhile.

And you are quite right to be excited about receiving your P3ESR !

Keep well, Cheers Ian.

[CageyH]

My opinion, trust your ears and pick the combination you like the best.

More expensive does not always mean better....

[IHP]

My opinion, trust your ears and pick the combination you like the best.

More expensive does not always mean better....

Given what I just posted this is also very, very sound advice ! Ignore me :)

[eksiil]

hello Guillermo,

I've found the "problem" with Croft gear to be that the law of diminishing returns kicks in very early. Croft's entry-level pre-amps especially give you a very large measure of his signature sound (for me: 3D & punchy). that being said, I've just had my octal SMA IV upgraded & kitted out with a separate RS PSU. the magic has moved up by a number of notches -- but it was very much there to begin with.

I used to have a modern Micro 25 & enjoyed it a lot. ona whim I then bought a (1990 or thereabouts) "Mega Micro II," with 12 valves in the PSU alone & had it upgraded & found I like its 12bh7a's in the line stage. I then chanced on the SMA IV with its 6SN7's & 6SL7's and there is no going back to ECC83's for me.

I realise all this is not particularly helpful, but I guess what I'm saying is that the Croft tree does not have to be a steep climb & has lateral branchings-off which are not overly expensive to pursue.

I am not a particular fan of tube-rolling as such -- although that is another avenue Croft gear opens up.

btw, what power amp you're using with your pres?

cheers

ahto

[ullogu1]

Thanks for your thoughts folks!

Maybe the same question but thought of differently:

1. Keep 25RS for line and RIAA RS for phone
2. Keep 25 for both line and phono
3. Keep 25RS for line and use the 25 for phono
4. Keep 25 for line and RIAA RS for phono

Let's say 50/50 digital streaming and vinyl

Right now I'm using a Sony TA-NS55ES for power amp but open to changing this. I've thought about a 7 or 7R. I've also heard that the P3ESR does better with more power. Do the Croft 7 or 7R at 45/55 WPC have enough?

I've tried listening to different combos but my sonic memory is poor!

[eksiil]

put that way I'd go for option (3). I don't know what your vinyl rig is like, but I do know it's an unnecessary drag if Tidal is a million miles behind the vinyl. in my case, Allo Katana plus a regulated Croft pre have become a non-negotiable partnership.

I have 7R monos feeding Harbeth HL5s. with enough front end gain I can make the floor shake. I used to have Usher Mini Dancer IIs, but as soon as I heard the Harbeths in my system it was no contest.

for what it's worth I think you'd missing out on an awful lot having the Sony between the Harbeths and your top flight Croft pre (& RIIA).

[ullogu1]

I use a Sansui SR-838 with Nagaoka MP200, Denon DL-301Mkii, Grado 8MZ, and Sure M91ED

I use Tidal because my vinyl collection is about 100 in size, but is increasing

I'm open to changing power amps. What do you suggest that will pair with the 25RS and P3ESR <1000 used? I'll check out the Katana

[eksiil]

I'm not familiar with the Sansui, but by the looks of it your vinyl should sound very good indeed.

my recommendation would definitely be to go for a Croft 7. Croft power amp synergy with Harbeths seems legendary (& I can vouch for it personally). plus, if you like what you hear, you can always have the power amp upgraded by Glenn Croft himself. a number of years ago I bought two separate used 7s, shipped them to him & back came to 7R monos at a considerable saving compared to the RRP of a pair of new 7R monos (I'm not sure if I should be saying this...). I've also had two older preamps maxed out by him. Mr Croft is shockingly approachable & this, to me, is part of the equation. (in fact I've just bought a Croft headamp for my Denon 103R & was told it would not be worth the effort to have it sent to him for upgrades etc -- a very simple layout, he says. it now sounds close to the Music Maker III I used to have).

also, it might be worth noting I've seen several people on this forum and elsewhere saying they prefer their 7s to 7Rs. horses for courses etc.

[ullogu1]

I've read elsewhere that if you are using a tube amp, then go LS3/5a. If using SS, then go P3ESR.

Thoughts?

[hifi_dave]

I doubt see how that could possibly be true. I regularly use valves with Harbeth speakers and LS3/5A and SS with either.

Makes no sense - perhaps someone is under the impression that the higher impedance of vintage LS3/5A is easier on valve amps but any half decent valve amp will work perfectly with Harbeth and modern LS3/5A are not all amp friendly.

[Frazeur1]

ullogu1, I too am in the USA, and use Croft Micro 25 and Series 7 amplifiers, I love them, use them with a couple of speakers, Duevel Venus Omni and WLM La Scala monitors, both are fantastic.

I do understand the issue a bit with Croft in the states being able to even listen to them before purchase, makes it hard to sort out based on sound quality, or anything really but forum blurb, or a rare review.

Seeing as you already have the upper end line preamp and the phonostage, I would say keep them, they will go the distance and sound great no matter what. You don’t say what amplifer you are using in conjunction, unless I missed it, but a Croft would be nice, obviously others will work.

I don’t know if you have discussed anything with Gene Rubin, he is a fantastic dealer there in California, and can get almost anything Croft, he might even take trades if you go that route.

Bottom line, your Croft’s will sound great with Harbeth, have fun and enjoy the journey, most of all, your music!

[ullogu1]

Funny you mentioned Gene Rubin as that's where I'm getting the Harbeths. He offered me a good deal (I think) on a new pair. I actually prefer the regular 25 to the 25RS. I find the RS just a little too much. Almost too articulate- lower frequencies just too clear- doesn't blend. Maybe my tastes aren't audiophile grade. I'm leaning now to keeping the regular 25 and am considering keeping the RIAA RS. Listening now to some Bill Evans.

I'm still unsure as to what to do power amp wise. Right now I have a mid 1990s Sony which seems to be nice but I'm certainly no expert. I bought it for $200 and seemed to get good reviews on other sites. I do wish the Croft 7 had more power. Are there other amps that would be good buys on the used market?

I also use a Dragonfly Red as a DAC for streaming. Should I be working on getting something different?

Appreciate the input!

-Guillermo

[Frazeur1]

Hey, you are taking heed to your own ears, that is what matters with any of this, so if you prefer the standard 25, so be it! At least you have some trade/sell value in your RS, although US values are pretty crap on Croft in general, unfortunately.

As to the Croft amps and power, the Series 7 would power the Harbeths just fine, providing you aren’t trying to power a large space, and then it is a matter of why the P3’s then. Again, if the Sony works for you, it matters not.

Gene is a good guy, he won’t steer you wrong, he has been around a long time, and knows his products very well.