HiFi and/or Music first

[John]

There been a few threads where we have touched on the issue of HIFI systems over music.......which comes first
I have met people who have very high end systems with very small music collections something I still do not understand as for me my hifi system is about allowing me to appreciate my passion........So for me I am very clear my passion is music but I also know that having the best system I can get increases my listening pleasure. I listen to a lot of music, perhaps 2 to 3 hours a day and often more at weekends and I want to be emotionally inolved as much as I can I also want it to sound realistic as possible this is way I have invested so much time and energy in this.
For me music first.......blah blah every time. I only got into Hifi because I was so frustrated with what I was hearing I have met people with systems first, people with great systems but little passion for music.
Most of my friends who are as passionate about music as me do not have good systems but still love music they like what they hear when they come round but think its all a bit crazy

[Spur07]

It's got to be the music first for me - surely that's how it starts out in the beginning when you're young. I can remember fighting with my brother on a Sunday evening to take turns recording the next song on the top 20 countdown. Sounds quaint now but we used to listen to it as a family. Later, I used to listen to my vinyl as a teenager in my room on the family stereo hand-me-down. In my 20's I finally decided to get something 'decent', but all my most memorable, emotive moments listening to music/songs have been on something like a cruddy car stereo, or on a mate's shitty stack system, walking past someone's house with the music blaring out their window, in a shop, at the college bop, or a concert, etc. And all of those moments have probably coincided with a strong sense of emotional upheaval in my life. So it's almost never about the hifi really :)

[Bodger]

For me, age is part of the equation. When younger I would have music on all the time. In the 70s I had a Goodmans dimension 80 system and wasn't of the mindset where upgrading was a concern. Now I'm in my late 50s. A valve blew recently and in the time it took me to source and replace a resistor and cap I didn't use my hifi at all even though I could have used my old Quad ss. I can't enjoy the experience if I'm listening on a system with an element that's "less" than I usually have. When I'm "listening" on the best system I have it's about an interplay between the sound quality and the music itself. I have to be happy with both elements. I don't need music around me all the time. There are journeys when we drive for 5 hours and don't put any music on at all. The recent aquisition of my Williams dac, however, has informed my enjoyment hugely. Not just for the clarity and 'oooh I never heard that instrument in the background before,' but for better appreciation of how the elements of the music work together. I was stunned by the rhythmic elements of Paul Simon's music, even though I've listened to it for years. OTOH I've had a song going round in my head, really enjoying it and when I put the cd on I find I don't want to hear it all. I find the experience of music a shapeshifter in time and space.

[Steve Toy]

For me, age is part of the equation. When younger I would have music on all the time. In the 70s I had a Goodmans dimension 80 system and wasn't of the mindset where upgrading was a concern. Now I'm in my late 50s. A valve blew recently and in the time it took me to source and replace a resistor and cap I didn't use my hifi at all even though I could have used my old Quad ss. I can't enjoy the experience if I'm listening on a system with an element that's "less" than I usually have. When I'm "listening" on the best system I have it's about an interplay between the sound quality and the music itself. I have to be happy with both elements. I don't need music around me all the time. There are journeys when we drive for 5 hours and don't put any music on at all. The recent aquisition of my Williams dac, however, has informed my enjoyment hugely. Not just for the clarity and 'oooh I never heard that instrument in the background before,' but for better appreciation of how the elements of the music work together. I was stunned by the rhythmic elements of Paul Simon's music, even though I've listened to it for years. OTOH I've had a song going round in my head, really enjoying it and when I put the cd on I find I don't want to hear it all. I find the experience of music a shapeshifter in time and space.

+1 in essence. For me the two go together. Without good hi-fi you are only getting a fraction of the music.

[alfie2902]

But without any music there is no need for Hi-Fi !

So... It's gotta be music... simples.

[Steve Toy]

As I said, the two go together. Without any hi-fi you can only admire the artwork on the cover. :p

[alfie2902]

Unless you experience music live! No Hi-Fi needed for the real thing matey! :ner:

Our Hi-Fi's are only there to try to reproduce that experience! ;) simply no more , no less!

[Steve Toy]

Our Hi-Fi's are only there to try to reproduce that experience! ;) simply no more , no less!

Agreed. It takes a bloody good hi-fi to pull it off though.

[AndrewR]

Quite true that music is what makes the world go around and "no music, no hi-fi".

However, it tends to be the case that hi-fi presents the bigger conundrum... and we all like a big conundrum to solve.

Here's another thought, which is better? Having 1000 records and a hi-fi that renders them boring, or having 500 records and a hi-fi that renders them with musical brilliance.

Andrew

[alfie2902]

Agreed. It takes a bloody good hi-fi to pull it off though.

There's not many that can Steve, if any! That's what we're all striving for I guess! :)

[Effem]

I think we all listen in different ways and our enjoyment of it very much depends upon an individual's benchmarks - be they set high, low, or anything in between.

I know many people who care not one jot on what medium the music comes from and they are very much at home listening on a portable transistor radio. Others see each piece of music as a measurement of criticality, i.e. is the bass player in time with the rest of the band, has the orchestra conductor turned the music score page too early or too late, is the Royal Philharmic Orchestra's interpretation of Bach more accurate than the Berlin's rendition? That piano hasn't been tuned properly. You get the picture I'm sure.

I will admit that my listening pleasure can only be unleashed when I have nothing to moan about. My recent experiences with the YS pre I just bought is a prime example of that. For example, I have my "reference" tracks that I know intimately and if there isn't a "ting" on the cymbals where there SHOULD be a "ting" then something is definately amiss. I go into into critical mode then and cannot relax until my "ting" has been restored, then I can sit back and enjoy the musical performance. It's the difference between getting annoyed over the fault and toe tapping when there aint any to moan about :lol:

[magiccarpetride]

There been a few threads where we have touched on the issue of HIFI systems over music.......which comes first
I have met people who have very high end systems with very small music collections something I still do not understand as for me my hifi system is about allowing me to appreciate my passion........So for me I am very clear my passion is music but I also know that having the best system I can get increases my listening pleasure. I listen to a lot of music, perhaps 2 to 3 hours a day and often more at weekends and I want to be emotionally inolved as much as I can I also want it to sound realistic as possible this is way I have invested so much time and energy in this.
For me music first.......blah blah every time. I only got into Hifi because I was so frustrated with what I was hearing I have met people with systems first, people with great systems but little passion for music.
Most of my friends who are as passionate about music as me do not have good systems but still love music they like what they hear when they come round but think its all a bit crazy

Music, without question. However, let's take a hypothetical example (humor me here): let's say I get sentenced by a judge (because I got caught streaming my music wirelessly from the cloud) to a life-long punishment of not being allowed to purchase and listen to music anymore. The question is: would I then sell my hi fi?

No way! I'd never sell it. But why, since I could get a pretty penny for it? Simple -- I love watching MOVIES. And most movies come with sound (dialog, accidental noises), and hi fi is integral part of that experience.

[Steve Toy]

Here's another thought, which is better? Having 1000 records and a hi-fi that renders them boring, or having 500 records and a hi-fi that renders them with musical brilliance.

I'll take the 500 records and the brilliant musical rendering, ta.

I think some folks confuse having music "on" for the sake of filling the void of silence and actually listening to it with their undivided attention. Crap-fi makes the latter rather difficult.

[John]

I love what my system does for music it brings me closer but most of my close friends are just as deeply into music as me they have low fi systems but they still go to at least 2 gigs a week and still buy albums every week. I would never question there passion for music, when we meet for a gig we talk about bands the latest album to check out etc etc, this is all passion for music
For me good hifi enriches the music but I totally get where my friends come from

[Joe]

I'd prefer to listen to music via a good hifi, but if that's not available I'd rather listen via a crappy mini system than not listen to music at all. In the same way I'd prefer to read a well-printed hardback book, but if a cheap paperback is all I can find and/or afford, I'll read that rather than not read the book.

[Marco]

The point though with Andrew's question is this:


Having 1000 records and a hi-fi that renders them boring


...with the emphasis on the bit in bold.

There's not much point in having 1000 records (or any amount of records) if they're just sitting there being unappreciated and gathering dust because the owner finds them boring to listen to, when instead 500 records, through the right system, can give the same person the requisite pleasure that he or she desires :)

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Here's another thought, which is better? Having 1000 records and a hi-fi that renders them boring, or having 500 records and a hi-fi that renders them with musical brilliance.

Andrew

There is no way that a hi fi, no matter how lousy it may be, can render good music boring. Something else may render music boring, but not hi fi.

[Haselsh1]

I'll take the 500 records and the brilliant musical rendering, ta.

I think some folks confuse having music "on" for the sake of filling the void of silence and actually listening to it with their undivided attention. Crap-fi makes the latter rather difficult.

For having music 'on' we have a piece of shit JVC thing that fills our homely void with sound whilst we are doing something better with our lives. For listening to music we have the system listed below. As already stated here in the quote, there is a bloody big difference.

[Joe]

There's not much point in having 1000 records (or any amount of records) if they're just sitting there being unappreciated and gathering dust because the owner finds them boring to listen to, when instead 500 records, through the right system, can give the same person the requisite pleasure that he or she desires :)

Marco.

Equally there's no point in having the best hifi money can buy if you waste it on playing Celine bloody Dion!

[Haselsh1]

I'd prefer to listen to music via a good hifi, but if that's not available I'd rather listen via a crappy mini system than not listen to music at all. In the same way I'd prefer to read a well-printed hardback book, but if a cheap paperback is all I can find and/or afford, I'll read that rather than not read the book.

I'd much rather not listen to recorded music at all if this were the case. I'd make the decision to listen to live music and go down to the pub.

[Joe]

Well, there you go. I discovered tons of music via my transistor radio, and listened to music for ten years or so via Dansette-style record players. My ears can adjust quite easily to poor sound quality.

[magiccarpetride]

Well, there you go. I discovered tons of music via my transistor radio, and listened to music for ten years or so via Dansette-style record players. My ears can adjust quite easily to poor sound quality.

Even live music can be presented in a sub-standard fashion. You may be listening to a live performance in an extremely noisy bar full of hammered people yelling at the top of their lungs, or you may catch a live performance standing outside of the concert hall. The sound may be weaving in and out, being barely audible and muffled, but if it's a good performance, you'll be enthralled.

Nothing to do with the sound quality.

[Marco]

Well, there you go. I discovered tons of music via my transistor radio, and listened to music for ten years or so via Dansette-style record players. My ears can adjust quite easily to poor sound quality.

Joe,

I do agree with your sentiments, but I guess that as AOS is a specialist audio forum, most people here (including you, I presume?) love good sound as well as good music - and crucially, believe that the former enriches one's enjoyment of the latter.

Otherwise, what's the point in having a quality hi-fi system or being part of a community like this? :)

Personally, what I always find interesting is listening to a tape or CD in the car, and really enjoying the music on a pretty basic sound system, but then when getting home, playing the same album on my 'proper' hi-fi system and enjoying the very same music so much more, simply because of the greater musical insight and realism offered by a quality hi-fi system.

In fact, taking this further, there are often occasions when I pop into my local HMV and buy a few new albums which when played in the car on the way home I think to myself: 'why the f*ck did I buy this pish?' Then when I get home and play the same album on my main system, I change my mind and really get into it - the very same music which failed to hit the spot in the car.

*That* for me is when you know your hi-fi system is doing the business and enriching your enjoyment of music!

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Let's flip the recent discussion regarding music and hi fi on its head, and explore whether having a really good hi fi system can actually interfere and distract from pure musical enjoyment.

Of course, goes without saying that in most cases high quality hi fi only enhances the music listening pleasure. But on a few occasions, I have (and I suspect some of you here have too) experienced how listening to a stellar hi fi tends to drag my attention away from music and more towards the appreciation of how fantastic the system sound is. I'd argue, however, that this too belongs to the Art of Sound.

Any takers?

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

I'm going to move this into the other very similar thread currently running, as no offence, but I really don't think yet another separate thread on a similar vein is necessary :)


{Edit: now done!}

Marco.

[Joe]

Let's flip the recent discussion regarding music and hi fi on its head, and explore whether having a really good hi fi system can actually interfere and distract from pure musical enjoyment.

Of course, goes without saying that in most cases high quality hi fi only enhances the music listening pleasure. But on a few occasions, I have (and I suspect some of you here have too) experienced how listening to a stellar hi fi tends to drag my attention away from music and more towards the appreciation of how fantastic the system sound is. I'd argue, however, that this too belongs to the Art of Sound.

Any takers?

I can't say I've ever noticed this precisely. Some systems I've had have 'favoured' certain types of music, leading me to narrow my listening tastes, but with better systems I just get more out of a wider range of music, from the simplest to the most complex.

[magiccarpetride]

Hi Alex,

I'm going to move this into the other very similar thread currently running, as no offence, but I really don't think yet another separate thread on a similar vein is necessary :)


{Edit: now done!}

Marco.

Now worries, well done!

[Alex_UK]

Not sure if I can add anything to the debate, but a couple of points:

WHEREVER I am, I have to have music available, even if I am not actually playing it. That sounds daft maybe, but my ipod and headphones (at least) are usually always with me if I am way from the house for a couple of hours or more. Some of my best listening has been through an ipod into a portable headamp into i-grado headphones...

I NEVER drive in the car without music, (maybe the radio, but usually a music station) - the system in my car is actually VERY good (a Boston Acoustics setup) but in my Land Rover it is an ancient Sony head unit, yet I rarely think I am missing out on much.

At home, I get almost annoyed with my missus when she wants to watch Corrie or 'Stenders etc - I usually sneak one ear bud in, and connect to my laptop and check out new groups from newspaper reviews, websites etc., and add them to a Spotify playlist to check out later if they are any good, usually leading to a CD purchase. (or 10...:doh:)

But, at the end of the day, I would much rather listen to music through MY system, in MY time, in MY space, on MY terms - and I would always like that system to be improving. Unfortunately though, I still spend £0000s a year on software, and only £000s on hardware - so I guess I am a music lover first and foremost.

[Marco]

Hi Alex,


WHEREVER I am, I have to have music available, even if I am not actually playing it. That sounds daft maybe, but my ipod and headphones (at least) are usually always with me if I am way from the house for a couple of hours or more. Some of my best listening has been through an ipod into a portable headamp into i-grado headphones...


I know where you're coming from, but I don't own an ipod and likely never will. It's just not my thing. When I'm out and about, I'm generally in the car and so play music on the car stereo. When I'm out and about and don't have the car, I'm usually with my wife or friends, and I'd rather talk to them than plug an iPod in! ;)

I almost never use public transport or spend much time by myself on the move (other than in the car), so the occasions where I'd use an iPod, or some such, would be minimal. And when I'm at home I listen to music on my main system, which is in a dedicated room, so I never need to use headphones, thus Del can watch the soaps downstairs without either of us disturbing one another.

We just different lifestyles, dude! :)


I NEVER drive in the car without music, (maybe the radio, but usually a music station)...


Me neither - I *must* have choons playing when I'm driving, but it must also be the right type of music! :fingers:


....the system in my car is actually VERY good (a Boston Acoustics setup) but in my Land Rover it is an ancient Sony head unit, yet I rarely think I am missing out on much.


Ours are very basic. It’s either a Blaupunkt tape deck in Del's car or a middle-of-the-road Kenwood CDP in mine. Strangely enough, listening to tapes in Del's car gives me the most pleasure, as I can then play compilations I've made up on my main system, usually from vinyl (mostly of 7" and 12" singles from the 80s :eyebrows:), recorded on high-quality NOS chrome tape, and those invariably sound much better, too, than commercial CDs played on the Kenwood....

Yes, analogue rules, so you can stuff yer iPods and other such digital bollocks!! :lolsign:

However, like I've said, as much as I enjoy listening to music in the car, when I play the same music on my main system at home, the difference is night and day - so in the car, fun though it is when playing choons, I'm missing out on plenty.


But, at the end of the day, I would much rather listen to music through MY system, in MY time, in MY space, on MY terms - and I would always like that system to be improving.


Too true. I think you'd be kidding yourself on if you didn't. I'm perfectly content with my system, but that doesn't mean I don't like to tweak it now and then; not to 'fix' anything, but simply to get more of what I already have. Also, as I work from home, I listen to music on average for 7-8 hours a day, mostly outside now, as the weather is so nice.

And in terms of having music around the home, we have waterproof ceiling speakers in the bathroom, so I can pump music down (and switch on the 'mood' lighting) when we're relaxing having a long soak in the bath, sometimes accompanied with a glass of wine. And yes, keep those thoughts to youself :eyebrows: We have ghetto-blasters in the kitchen and bedroom, and of course I've just bought some mint Celestion Dittons for use out in the garden!

So do I love me choons? Hell, yes!! :gig:

But I also love good sound!


Unfortunately though, I still spend £0000s a year on software, and only £000s on hardware - so I guess I am a music lover first and foremost.

For me it would depend on whether I've made a major hi-fi purchase or not that year. I tend to buy pretty expensive kit and keep it for a long time, so the cost of this will usually outweigh what I spend on software for that year.

However, in a year when that's not the case, such as this one, I'll spend more on software - and bear in mind that I'm talking about brand new vinyl at around £15 a pop (sometimes rather more), CDs at £10 and above, as well as second-hand vinyl, not cheap music downloads from the 'Net!

Yes, I enjoy having a 'tangible' music collection that also retains an intrinsic monetary value ;)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

Let me just add, that despite the ipod, streaming at home etc., I still only buy physical software - i.e. CDs mostly, but some vinyl too - anything that is on the computers & ipod is ripped from the CD - until such time as I am forced into not buying the CD, that will always remain so, I may have downloaded one or two itunes "exclusives" but until the quality is at least the same as CD and they force me into it I still want the shiny disc to keep, thanks.

Spotify Premium at £9.99 a month stops me making purchasing mistakes, and with 320kbps is perfectly adequate for background music, but if I like it enough I buy the physical copy.

[Marco]

No worries, dude - you don't have to justify your music-buying habits. I just wanted to outline my own situation with regard to the thread title :)

Marco.