View Full Version : HI FI careers
I hesitated using the title of the thread in case i became responsible for killing a AOS member after they laugh so hard they have a heart attack. If the title doesnt induce cardiac infraction maybe the content will, but here goes.
I work as a retail manager for a London store and things are bad at the moment.
The store has only been open 9 months but i think i need a back up plan and im wondering if there is any such thing as Hi Fi retail left in the country.
My own observations are as follows.
Sevenoaks hi fi . These poor guys dont look very happy and the fact the Croyden branch, which i used many times, is now a Tesco express may have something to do with it.
Richer sounds. Ok, not much Hi Fi but these guys seem to never leave and always look very chipper.
Local independents. Do you have experience in the trade sir? Erm no.
Any insights into the trade from those members in the know would be very welcome and if i have inadvertently offended anyone i humbly ask them for forgiveness.
My shop is just round the corner form Richer sounds, most who work there come in for sandwiches. Had a chat with one of them a few months ago about the company and he seems to praise them very highly as a company to work for. Seem to look after there staff very well. Only thing I find disappointing is when I try to engage with any of them about HiFi on a personal level they all seem just to be into AV and the conversation goes nowhere.
As far as working in HiFi is concerned - it's all but over, so don't bother...
The few successful independants work from home now I think, due to low overheads. Three I know - Acoustic Arts who had the premises of my apprenticeship in Watford transferred to a village location south west of Luton, HiFi dave gave up the St Albans shop two or three years ago and Signals near Ipswich has always been run from home as I remember.
A few independant shops do seem to be surviving - just, if the overheads are low enough and many rely on ebay selling for their cash-flow I'm told. The likes of KJ West1 have a more afluent clientel these days and these don't suffer like we plebs can and do.
I agree about many Sevenoaks branches, which are all too often box shifters of 5 star WTF product. There are one or two good ones around (Watford and Guildford were memorable years ago). Audio T seem like a deluxe Sevenoaks these days, as most sell the same old-same old, although less branches have a negative attitude I found (except Reading, and the least said about that store the better IMO).
The thing about Richer Sounds is that where the nearby "Audio Salon" is often empty with little change from week to week, the local Richer Sounds is bustling and the staff do seem to care about the clients they have. Whether this is anything to do with random phone calls from Julian and the repercussions thereof I don't know, but they do give the impression of caring and the Cambridge brand is good I'm told, even if it's not "for us" particularly..
Just my tuppence worth.
My shop is just round the corner form Richer sounds, most who work there come in for sandwiches. Had a chat with one of them a few months ago about the company and he seems to praise them very highly as a company to work for. Seem to look after there staff very well. Only thing I find disappointing is when I try to engage with any of them about HiFi on a personal level they all seem just to be into AV and the conversation goes nowhere.
Interesting. I dont suppose they would be to impressed with my £30 dvd player.
As far as working in HiFi is concerned - it's all but over, so don't bother...
The few successful independants work from home now I think, due to low overheads. Three I know - Acoustic Arts who had the premises of my apprenticeship in Watford transferred to a village location south west of Luton, HiFi dave gave up the St Albans shop two or three years ago and Signals near Ipswich has always been run from home as I remember.
A few independant shops do seem to be surviving - just, if the overheads are low enough and many rely on ebay selling for their cash-flow I'm told. The likes of KJ West1 have a more afluent clientel these days and these don't suffer like we plebs can and do.
I agree about many Sevenoaks branches, which are all too often box shifters of 5 star WTF product. There are one or two good ones around (Watford and Guildford were memorable years ago). Audio T seem like a deluxe Sevenoaks these days, as most sell the same old-same old, although less branches have a negative attitude I found (except Reading, and the least said about that store the better IMO).
The thing about Richer Sounds is that where the nearby "Audio Salon" is often empty with little change from week to week, the local Richer Sounds is bustling and the staff do seem to care about the clients they have. Whether this is anything to do with random phone calls from Julian and the repercussions thereof I don't know, but they do give the impression of caring and the Cambridge brand is good I'm told, even if it's not "for us" particularly..
Just my tuppence worth.
Shame! From a punters perspective , i like the idea you can go to a retailers home and try out their hand picked favourite gear. I have thought about going up to AVI to hear the neutron sub but worried in case i dont like it and Ashley buries me in his garden.
Richer sounds interesting but ive got no passion for AV. I bet they are busier than me though:(
kininigin
28-06-2010, 17:42
Audio T seem like a deluxe Sevenoaks these days, as most sell the same old-same old, although less branches have a negative attitude I found (except Reading, and the least said about that store the better IMO).
i had the misfortune of going to the reading store the other week.
I will not be going there ever again.
The writing was on the wall back in 2006. From xmas 2006 people simply had less disposable income to spend on luxuries thanks to the government with it's stealth taxes and the other "time bomb" taxes that were set in previous budgets going off round about that time, coupled with the surge in iPod and AV popularity. 2007 got worse still and that's when the bread and butter type of hi-fi dealer was going to the wall, yet the very high end was as bouyant as ever it was.
The fight back came in the shape of diversifying into stocking AV products and greater internet sales activity which some made a success of, while others didn't.
People now have only food, warmth and shelter as top priority, so luxuries like hi-fi have become a very low priority. Even the secondhand market has almost completely dried up as anyone who has recently listed on ebay or advertised in the classifieds will attest.
As for richer sounds, the last time I went in there I nearly battered the assistant because of his rank stupidity. All I wanted to do was have a listen to some speakers, but each pair that were connected up I never heard what they actually sounded like, because this twonk kept on perpetually twisting the bass and treble controls on the CA 840 amp so I could be "amazed at the quality of the bass and treble". I couldn't get rid of him for a decent listen so I left the shop ASAP.
i had the misfortune of going to the reading store the other week.
I will not be going there ever again.
Sorry to butt in, bit how's the Shure cartridge doing now, Darren? :)
Marco.
The glory days of midfi and hifi of the 60's and 70's my return some day to some degree MABEY but more likely not for a very long time,Hifi is now a very small nich in an even smaller shrinking market.The day of Hi Fi brick and morter stores is over.
I'd look for work doing nearly anything else.The only people makeing any money in sales here in the U.S.A. are drug dealers.
But even drug dealers are complaining there adics are haveing trouble stealing enough to by drugs because no one has money or new expensive goods to steal and pawn.
The government can't tax us much more so they are takeing steps to leaglize drugs and tax them.
The government has gotten into the Auto buisness,Banking buisness,realestate buisness,health care buisness and now recreational drugs, I'm sure they will mess that up too.
http://www.publicradio.org/columns/marketplace/business-news-briefs/2010/06/a_new_york_city_pack_of_cigare.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_it_cost_to_produce_one_cigarette
Who is getting rich from cigeretts? Tobacco companys spend .10 makeing a pack of smokes they charge less than .60 add taxes and it's over $11.00
That's why we have Tea party's popping up all over America.
The times they are a changeing (Bob Dylan)
kininigin
28-06-2010, 18:24
Sorry to butt in, bit how's the Shure cartridge doing now, Darren? :)
Marco.
it's going well marco i've been very impressed with it so far,i will give my opinion of it on my thread in a couple of days,i have some vinyl comming and want too see how it copes with it.
I thought i would be finished with upgrading but after hearing this cart and what my phono stage is capable of and knowing there's more to come from the technics i can see a couple more upgrades appearing ;)
Shame! From a punters perspective , i like the idea you can go to a retailers home and try out their hand picked favourite gear. I have thought about going up to AVI to hear the neutron sub but worried in case i dont like it and Ashley buries me in his garden.
Richer sounds interesting but ive got no passion for AV. I bet they are busier than me though:(
To be fair, I reckon that if you take the trouble to visit AVI, then you must be reasonably serious about the Neutron sub, which has three amps built in etc... Ash isn't too frightening in the flesh although he's a fast talker and the info floods out (faster than he can type ;)) so he makes more sense face-to-face. I'd add that Martin Grindrod is an absolute gentle-man who, IMO, really DOES know what he's doing and why :) Just bear in mind that the market they are catering for doesn't want stacks of odd shaped boxes, some with glowing valves with lethal voltages just a bad touch away. This market doesn't even want stacks of "matched" boxes from the likes of Linn and Naim, just a CD or computer style source and everything else hidden away.
Some of the chains discussed above are genuinely decent people and try as hard as possible to help and serve you, as the old arrogance which I (hopefully only) occasionally suffered from would have cost these people their jobs I reckon.
I hope this helps a bit. I wish I was still in the industry (a wonderful comfort blanket it was for me), but the AV bug hit around 2000-2001 and few shops have recovered from it I think. I mentioned before that I went for an interview a few years ago at one of the branches of a founding Linn/Naim/Rega company and felt like a dinosaur, as I had been earning 30% more than their senior sales guys (and that was at the fag end of my career), they did custom install above "two channel" and were chasing the £30K custom sale, rather than the impoverished £2K pain-in-the-bum "stereo" sale...
I still remember in High School , all the kids big brothers starting uni and blowing their student grant on Hi Fi, the cool gadget back in the 70s. I had a little Dansette but i was aware of names like Technics , Mission and Wharfedale.
Its probably those grants that made Julian Richer rich!
On the subject of Richer sounds, what irony that their widely regarded Cambridge 840 amp gathers dust while they try and sell you a telly.
On the subject of Richer sounds, what irony that their widely regarded Cambridge 840 amp gathers dust while they try and sell you a telly.
Not in every branch, surely???? the Cambridge stuff would be significantly more profitable for them than an equivalent TV, where you're *very* lucky to make over 20%.. The Cambridge stuff can't be the cheapest to make, but having production in the far east saves an absolute fortune still I think.
I have a feeling that sub would be cherry on top for my system, and i may well own one one day.
Im not buying an Apple Mac though!
Not in every branch, surely???? the Cambridge stuff would be significantly more profitable for them than an equivalent TV, where you're *very* lucky to make over 20%.. The Cambridge stuff can't be the cheapest to make, but having production in the far east saves an absolute fortune still I think.
Im sure you are right Dave its just that when i asked about it last year they didnt seem to know much about it. Fair enough , the young staff are more into their gaming and movies, i might be as well if i was their age.
I must say though, few years ago i went to a show and the Cambridge crew were there and very nice people. They were all ex staff from the shop floor and their knowledge put me to shame.
magiccarpetride
28-06-2010, 18:50
I hesitated using the title of the thread in case i became responsible for killing a AOS member after they laugh so hard they have a heart attack. If the title doesnt induce cardiac infraction maybe the content will, but here goes.
I work as a retail manager for a London store and things are bad at the moment.
The store has only been open 9 months but i think i need a back up plan and im wondering if there is any such thing as Hi Fi retail left in the country.
My own observations are as follows.
Sevenoaks hi fi . These poor guys dont look very happy and the fact the Croyden branch, which i used many times, is now a Tesco express may have something to do with it.
Richer sounds. Ok, not much Hi Fi but these guys seem to never leave and always look very chipper.
Local independents. Do you have experience in the trade sir? Erm no.
Any insights into the trade from those members in the know would be very welcome and if i have inadvertently offended anyone i humbly ask them for forgiveness.
I think the problem with the hi fi market boils down to insincere sales people. My hunch is that they're always pushing products on you that bring them the highest commission. Some of them are prepared to lie through their teeth just so they would convince you to go with that product over there instead of with the other product you fancy, simply because the product they're peddling pays bigger commission upon closing the sale.
That type of dishonesty is ruining the trade. People are not that dumb, and they eventually catch on and see through that kind of a charade.
Here in Vancouver I see quite a lot of young people who are passionate about high quality sound. But they have no place to go to in order to do a bit of comparison shopping/education. I remember walking into the local high end hi fi store a couple of years ago to enquire about the Oppo DVD player. After enduring the blank stares, I pulled out the printout that I was carrying with me (the printout was from the Oppo's web site). Upon reading the specs (and seeing the $199.99 price tag), the sales people literally laughed me out of the store! I considered myself lucky at that point for not being tarred and feathered and carried out of town.
It is that kind of snobbish attitude ("just the power chord alone on one of our regular players costs more than this shitty Oppo player!" was their snide remark) that is driving potential customers away from those stores. No wonder they're dying out -- however, the final joke is on them.
Ashley James has been banging on about this for ages, the average commission based sales guy much prefering to flog the more expensive product. Thank heck my salary was never based that way (apart from an evenly distributed approx 20% bonus top-up every month in my early years).
hifi_dave
28-06-2010, 19:01
Bonuses are only paid by the chains. Your average specialist dealer can't afford such luxuries and it's not the way to sell quality Hi-Fi anyway.
When i was on my sub obsession last month i booked a demo at s......ks hi fi to hear a B&W
I then saw a AVI ad9 subwoofer for sale second hand. I spoke to the seller being honest about my situation and he told me he used to be a manager of said store and told me they would try and sell me a Monitor audio because the margin was much larger.
I didnt go for the AVI, to big, but when i went for audition they said to me " its a bit more expensive but we have a Monitor audio at a managers special at the moment.
I almost jumped through the window to escape
magiccarpetride
28-06-2010, 19:42
Ashley James has been banging on about this for ages, the average commission based sales guy much prefering to flog the more expensive product. Thank heck my salary was never based that way (apart from an evenly distributed approx 20% bonus top-up every month in my early years).
It's not always and necessarily about flogging more expensive stuff. Sometimes, in order to move the merchandise and clear up the shelves, sales staff get offered higher commissions on selling cheaper products.
My point is that the staff on the floor does not seem keen on accommodating customers based on their needs. They rather think only about their own paycheque. And that, to me, is dishonest and unprofessional.
I wouldn't mind paying a higher price if the product is indeed going to match my needs. But I'm against buying a product that is obviously good for the salesman's wallet, and does nothing for me. I get upset when they insist on demoing to me some gear that they know is going to give them a big margin, and then refuse to demo the gear I came in for, saying that right now it's impractical to set the gear up or some such bs.
I have encountered some excellent staff in stores but the cheapest gear would be Wilson Benesch, Krell, stuff i couldnt possibly afford. Those stores seem to still be thriving despite the economy but just pipe dreams for me.
Many people here are far better placed than me to comment TBH, but FWIW just thought I'd mention there are still a fair few independent stores within driving distance of me in Surrey, SE England.
PJ in Guildford - largely unchanged as far as I can see. Naim dealer.
Infidelity in Kingston - bought my first gear here in the early 90's. Naim dealer. Popped in last year to enquire about computer audio (pre-HDX/Uniti) and the guy looked at me as if I'd just asked his girlfriend to get her t*ts out. Nothing has changed much here apart from the staff.
Some shop in Maidenhead (can't remember the name). Naim/Cyrus dealer I think in the 90's.
A shop very local to me (forgotten the name) in a very rich commuter-belt town called Weybridge in Surrey. Linn dealer, I think. They seemed to have embraced computer audio very early on with SB, Sonus, Streamers, etc. I've never bought anything here but the guy kindly advised me almost 2 years ago on how to set up the computer system I have today - he even drew me a diagram and gave me a quick demo of the difference between a normal MP3 file and the same file played through a Cyrus Dac. He said he was getting a fair few students/men in their 20's coming in complaining about the SQ of their MP3 files so he sells them SB and Dacs. I really hope they survive tbh.
I'm sure there may be many others around that I don't know of. I think many will have to embrace the digital revolution or risk slowly going to the wall. For comparison you only have to look at photography and how digital ripped the heart out of film. Most of the labs are gone. Some independent shops remain selling digital gear but I've been told the margins are slim.
The few from my generation have to adopt computer audio the expensive numpty way - with Linn and Naim for example, as I doubt many of them know how to make their own streaming solution for well under a grand... At least I know whom to tap up if I ever follow this path.
Lodgesound
29-06-2010, 10:51
I think the point about less disposable income is a significant one and is seriously affecting this sector.
I'm 42 years old and earn less money now than I did when I was 19 - I worked in Film and Television but by the time I was 32 I was too old to be wanted in it anymore and was made redundant completely at 38 - all the training I did is now completely worthless - a bit like being a metal cast printer - a skilled well-paid job in it's day BUT newspapers just are'nt made that way any more.
My point is that a lot of folk seem to be in this boat. Employment-wise we seem to be in this "youth obsessed" culture where experience and knowledge of any kind is just laughed out of court - I think this finds it's way all to often into the sales sector as previously highlighted here.
The other problem is that a lot of high-end gear is so ludicrously over-priced in my humble opinion when compared to average wages paid today even at senior management levels. Add this to our obscene house prices and general cost of living and you would have to be insane to think that you could make volume sales of some of this equipment work for you in a business environment.
I honestly believe that there is a serious case for price-revision in the elite Hi-Fi world - not to detrimental levels but just to make it that little bit more feasible for folk on modern wages. There is certainly not a lack of interest in this equipment - many folk would love to own what they can only aspire to at the moment because of such pricing.
I just think that a revision of this kind by some of the elite manufacturers would revive a market that is being killed off by excessive pricing.
hifi_dave
29-06-2010, 11:13
In my experience, the obscenely priced gear, just doesn't sell.It's the moderately priced gear which keeps us all going.
If you read Hi-Fi + and Hi-Fi snooze plus certain US mags, you would get the impression that all Hi-Fi costs a fortune and that you are one of the unfortunates who just can't afford proper Hi-Fi. These mags really wind me up because I know that, in GB anyway, there are precious few £30K speakers, £50K amps and £3K cartridges actually sold. You read about them, see wonderful pics and then the review samples are sold on at trade or less just to move them on.
Sensible Hi-Fi, as always, still sells. Maybe not in the quantity it did in the 70's and 80's but real people are still buying good Hi-Fi.
I think the point about less disposable income is a significant one and is seriously affecting this sector.
I'm 42 years old and earn less money now than I did when I was 19 - I worked in Film and Television but by the time I was 32 I was too old to be wanted in it anymore and was made redundant completely at 38 - all the training I did is now completely worthless - a bit like being a metal cast printer - a skilled well-paid job in it's day BUT newspapers just are'nt made that way any more.
My point is that a lot of folk seem to be in this boat. Employment-wise we seem to be in this "youth obsessed" culture where experience and knowledge of any kind is just laughed out of court - I think this finds it's way all to often into the sales sector as previously highlighted here.
The other problem is that a lot of high-end gear is so ludicrously over-priced in my humble opinion when compared to average wages paid today even at senior management levels. Add this to our obscene house prices and general cost of living and you would have to be insane to think that you could make volume sales of some of this equipment work for you in a business environment.
I honestly believe that there is a serious case for price-revision in the elite Hi-Fi world - not to detrimental levels but just to make it that little bit more feasible for folk on modern wages. There is certainly not a lack of interest in this equipment - many folk would love to own what they can only aspire to at the moment because of such pricing.
I just think that a revision of this kind by some of the elite manufacturers would revive a market that is being killed off by excessive pricing.
I am looking at jobs that pay less than I was earning back in 1988, so actually it's almost like taking a pay cut of 40% in real terms because money was worth more to you and me back then.
I can't fathom out what the obsession is with "yoof" being so desirable to employers. When I recruited, I used to look first at the applicant's attitude, work ethic, skills set, their people skills and honesty as paramount, because if I wanted something pretty to LOOK AT then it would make perfect sense to buy a nice picture and hang it on a wall, not employ it. Methinks it's either a source of cheap labour, or part of the "Nobody sits higher than the King" mentality where the boss is an idiot so the employees have to be dumber than he/she is to make them look good. Bit of each I suppose.
I would agree that most hi-fi is overpriced, even the latest chinese imports are costing a lot more than they did a year ago. An important factor in these pricing structures is volume, so if a manufacturer shifts less boxes than they used to, it makes sense for them to generate the same level of profit from a smaller volume of output. However, that price increase does come around and bite them in the ass because it then focusses their product on a different market sector which the product was not designed to compete in, so their sales volume falls yet again and so it goes on.
The good news (if there is any) is that a lot of manufacturers, distributors and dealers that do go to the wall because of their lack of flexibility and vision in a difficult market will pave the way for some new fresh blood once the happier times economy returns. Or should I add the word "maybe" into that statement?
In my experience, the obscenely priced gear, just doesn't sell.It's the moderately priced gear which keeps us all going.
If you read Hi-Fi + and Hi-Fi snooze plus certain US mags, you would get the impression that all Hi-Fi costs a fortune and that you are one of the unfortunates who just can't afford proper Hi-Fi. These mags really wind me up because I know that, in GB anyway, there are precious few £30K speakers, £50K amps and £3K cartridges actually sold. You read about them, see wonderful pics and then the review samples are sold on at trade or less just to move them on.
Sensible Hi-Fi, as always, still sells. Maybe not in the quantity it did in the 70's and 80's but real people are still buying good Hi-Fi.
I imagine but maybe wrong that part of the motivation for this is advertising revenue.....Winds me up to
Ken Kessler once wrote in 'Snooze that some of these luxury Top End US brands we know so well are actually tiny and far smaller than Linn or Naim I believe, let alone the likes of B&O.....
HighFidelityGuy
01-07-2010, 22:55
I've found that the medium sized mid-range stores like Sevenoaks are the worst places. They generally can't be arsed to spend any time discussing your requirements etc, they just want to sell you a 5 star What Hi-Fi product and get rid of you.
I'm quite lucky as I have three good independent shops near me that sell everything from basic Arcam gear all the way up to Tannoy Prestige's etc. All of them make you feel really at home and mainly want you to be happy. Last year I spent an entire evening listening to music, drinking tea and chatting to one particular store owner. I had a thoroughly enjoyable time and because of this I'll definitely buy more from him in the future.
I'd love to work somewhere like that but unfortunately most of them have very few staff to keep costs down and the wages are often pretty low. I'd also like to start my own store but that's unlikely to work. Maybe one day.
magiccarpetride
02-07-2010, 16:45
I'd love to work somewhere like that but unfortunately most of them have very few staff to keep costs down and the wages are often pretty low. I'd also like to start my own store but that's unlikely to work. Maybe one day.
I think there is plenty of room for dealers who want to make profit on the after-market sales. Especially as we're moving into the world of digital music. A new breed of customers is emerging where they're not bound by the old school luddite thinking, but are instead heart-and-soul into the convenience of streaming their music on demand, wherever they are. The next wave will be browsing and streaming lossless music from your library into your car.
People will want to have that capability, but they won't know how to go about it. Just selling them hardware and software will not be good enough. They will expect service, and the way vendors are, the service will most likely be shitty.
This is where I see a potential niche for knowledgeable audio experts to walk in and make a killing on charging for the after-market set up and whatnot. Very minimal risks (no upfront investment, no inventory), potentially huge profit margins.
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