View Full Version : Turntable mats, the good, the crap and the overpriced.
Mikeandvan
12-03-2020, 12:09
I use a spacemat on my NAS interspace TT, it's so flimsy it comes off at least half the time I change records, I guess a mixture of its weight - very light and static. Do I go matless as directed by those at NAS, or rega style felt mat, some thicker rubber concoction, or 'high end' ridiculously over priced copper frisbee?
If the manufacturer says don’t use a mat then that’s got to be the best bet, certainly solves the problem of a mat sticking to records.
I’ve tried several different mats on my Planar 3, they all make a difference but the question is which gives the “right” sound. Likewise using a clamp or puck/weight can make a difference but you’d need “golden ears” to hear it. After a couple of years of experimentation I’ve gone back to the standard Rega wool mat although I do use a Michell clamp, mainly to deal with some dished pressings.
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Made in 1968
12-03-2020, 13:25
I bought one of these ages ago. Hell make one to spec size if you ask
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/cherry-audio-accessories/m.html?item=233313844451&hash=item365296bce3%3Ag%3A-moAAOSwWB1dVAx8&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
Hi
I tried quite a few of the "In Thing" turntable mats on my Thorens, Acrylic, Felt, Leather, Cork, Cork & Neoprene, Neoprene and Resin
Most made no difference to the sound, most increased the amount of static when the record was lifted after playing, with the cork & Neoprene being the worse.
I ended going back to the stock Thorens one.
Still the shiny acrylic one did make a good disc for setting the anti skate
Never understood "hard " mats , copper , acrylic ect . Surely the idea is for the record to have as much traction as possible rather than slide on a hard surface .
I've tried all sorts and always come back to rubber , normally the one the manufacturer supplied with the deck .
Made in 1968
12-03-2020, 14:47
Same here Philip, always end up with the original Rubber mat.
With Rega decks in particular i found the old hard Rubber one that was also on the early 'LP12' to be best.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649164286-vintage-rega-planar-2-turntable-looks-great-plays-well/images/866387/
Mikeandvan
12-03-2020, 18:53
Can't believe what folk will pay for a Tenuto mat, just cos they're copper, which only has a material value of about £20, similar with Audio note and their silver and gold wiring, snake oil, and very expensive snake oil.
Made in 1968
12-03-2020, 18:55
Wouldnt need copper if they didnt use a deck with a big engine right under the cart
:rolleyes:
Buy a proper deck i say :D
Jac Hawk
12-03-2020, 19:05
I use 2 in combo with each other, at 1mm neoprene topped with a 3mm cork nitride rubber, I use it on my Rega, it sounds great and I never have static issues, my other deck is a Project and I don’t use a mat on it “yet” on that deck I have no end of static build up
Idlewithnodrive
12-03-2020, 20:06
The 5mm Achromat has been the best on most of my decks, including the current one.
The Tenuto, though, did make an obvious improvement to my SP-10, and is definitely the mat to use on the Techy.
Made in 1968
12-03-2020, 20:13
Art sent me a pre production Achro. Nice of him but i didint like it,
Manicatel
12-03-2020, 20:37
The Collaro mat seems to be getting a lot of fans.
It seems like a decent product, but having heard a very good quality TT with it/ without it, I can’t honestly say I heard much difference.
The Collaro mat seems to be getting a lot of fans.
It seems like a decent product, but having heard a very good quality TT with it/ without it, I can’t honestly say I heard much difference.
I used to have a Collaro 2020 idler drive TT, so was surprised to see the Collaro name still in use, albeit by new owners.
I've dabbled in the past with various TT mats: felt (thick and thin); cork; glass and leather But none lasted long; preferring in all cases to simply use the original rubber mat of my TD124/IIs (and using the Mitchell spindle clamp).
RobbieGong
12-03-2020, 22:03
Same experience as most of the guys here and I've said many times before - tried untold different mats, including exotic, expensive, hard, soft, lost count of the different types. Always found the stock mat rubber mat to be the one that sounded right over them all.
Some mats killed the music, like a quilt over the speakers, some tilted the frequencies one way or the other, some introduced an unnatural 'clarity' / sheen and so on.
Either way, they all tended to change things in a way I just didn't like - I don't do things that add a flavour or signature of their own, to an extent that changes the overall presentation and to my ears, gets in the way of the music and that audio 'rightness'
After tinkering with a few different mats a few years ago and finding that there could be a difference from mat to mat
I suddenly realised what is/could be happening. Mats tried where of varying thickness, therefore when used the VTA
was being changed, so when trying different mats what I feel should be done is to reset the VTA each time to allow
for mat thickness, just a thought.
Made in 1968
13-03-2020, 08:14
Aye cos mats are generally 3-6mm thickness in some cases, so to think a SRA difference of up to 3mm could easily change the tone of sound.
RobbieGong
13-03-2020, 08:37
Yep, you absolutely have to change vta and carefully dial in again otherwise your wasting your time (and money)
I bought one of these ages ago. Hell make one to spec size if you ask
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/cherry-audio-accessories/m.html?item=233313844451&hash=item365296bce3%3Ag%3A-moAAOSwWB1dVAx8&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
Those platters look extremely good vfm, the only thing that worries me is that it’s about 1kg lighter than the glass platter on my Planar 3, I wonder if the reduced flywheel effect would have an adverse effect on Wow & Flutter.
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Made in 1968
13-03-2020, 12:18
Its the mat i bought steve not the platter
paulf-2007
13-03-2020, 13:04
Copper mat on my DP80 I get no static issues and sounds more focused ( as some might say ) and far better IMO than the DP80 rubber mat . I use a weight with it to stop any slip while cleaning records with a velvet pad.
I have been using a Ringmat on my 401 for more years than I can remember. I would unreservedly recommend it. I have the MRA version.
Turntable mats are what I consider to be the Achilles heel of a vinyl system, my current ribbed rubber one does a great job.
Made in 1968
13-03-2020, 22:15
Aye everyone loves a ribbed rubber
:eyebrows:
After tinkering with a few different mats a few years and finding that there could be a difference from mat to mat
I suddenly realised what is/could be happening. Mats tried where of varying thickness, therefore when used the VTA
was being changed, so when trying different mats what I feel should be done is to reset the VTA each time to allow
for mat thickness, just a thought.
Correcting for VTA/SRA when changing mats goes without saying.
One mat that doesn’t seem to have had a mention is the Origin Live Upgrade Mat, I’ve had and used one for a number of years on a variety of different turntables with platters of different materials. I first used it on a couple of Project decks, a Debut Carbon (pressed steel platter) and a Genie RPM 1.3 (coated MDF platter) in both cases replacing the supplied thin felt platter mat, in both instances there was an improvement to the sound quality of both turntables, tighter bass, more detailed and transparent midband and cleaner treble. Didn’t need to make any adjustments for vta as the mat was exactly the same thickness as the basic Project felt mat (about 1mm). OL don’t reveal what the mat is composed of but development apparently took several years.
I also tried it on an ATLP120 direct drive turntable but I used it on top of a 3mm cork mat, this was done to get the vta right, although the deck had adjustable arm height it couldn’t go low enough to get the arm parallel to the record. The mat supplied with the deck was a DJ style slip mat used for DJ scratching antics [emoji35] and was quite thick hence my having to use 2 mats together, sounded pretty good though. One nice benefit is it’s antistatic.
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Aye everyone loves a ribbed rubber
:eyebrows:
:lol: I was waiting for that one, But seriously if there was a mat out there that supported the centre and outer edge of the vinyl without making any contact with the vinyl then I believe that would be the answer, With my ribbed one it makes the least contact with the vinyl possible.
DiveDeepDog
14-03-2020, 12:57
:lol: I was waiting for that one, But seriously if there was a mat out there that supported the centre and outer edge of the vinyl without making any contact with the vinyl then I believe that would be the answer, With my ribbed one it makes the least contact with the vinyl possible.
If you look at the DIN/RIAA spec of vinyl, the record rests on the edge lip and the record label. The playing surface isn't really in contact with the platter, but then we introduce dished mats and weights that push the record down ... Of course, thats not taking warps into account, nothings as simple as it looks.
http://www.aardvarkmastering.com/riaa.htm
FWIW, Funk Acromat has been my go-to mat for years, the red copper mat looked great but but didn't really add anything sonically, the Tenutu Gun metal however is a worthy upgrade.
Value is always a personal thing, but talk to an engineer about getting a 297mm disc 5mm thick flat to an accuracy of 0.1mm and they'll be sweating:eek:
".... but talk to an engineer about getting a 297mm disc 5mm thick flat to an accuracy of 0.1mm and they'll be sweating".
Really? Whilst not 'agricultural', it shouldn't be too much of a problem to an engineering workshop with a decent mill.
I use the Resomat.
https://www.trans-fi.com/resomat.htm
Incidentally, it was Marco's review a few years back that encouraged me to purchase one. Tried a number of different mats over the years.
I see mentioned the Origin Live Upgrade Mat, this thing costs as good as £40 and is just a thin mat of cork dyed black.
Snake oil ?
I would think so.
I see mentioned the Origin Live Upgrade Mat, this thing costs as good as £40 and is just a thin mat of cork dyed black.
Snake oil ?
I would think so.
If you had a hold of one you’d realise it definitely isn’t cork, if it was cork in that thickness it wouldn’t last 2 minutes. Yes £40 seems a lot but you do get a full refund guaranteed so you can try it first, if you think it’s not beneficial send it back, I for one found it to work well.
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There are so many mats it seems...
I'd been using an SRM 2mm silicon mat for last few years on my DD40, that suits it well and minimal static
I'm currently trying out the MCRU supports that negate the mat completely by lifting the vinyl off the platter...
So far I'd say nice open sound but a bit light on bass.
If you had a hold of one you’d realise it definitely isn’t cork, if it was cork in that thickness it wouldn’t last 2 minutes. Yes £40 seems a lot but you do get a full refund guaranteed so you can try it first, if you think it’s not beneficial send it back, I for one found it to work well.
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I have one here and the edge got torn, looks like cork to me, even the pattern you can see in it looks like compressed cork.
Made in 1968
15-03-2020, 22:11
Mats in general have to be high up in the top ten snake oil products..
I thought the Title of the thread was referring to my record collection :)
I thought the Title of the thread was referring to my record collection :)
[emoji4]
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losepete
16-03-2020, 02:02
I recently replaced the old (standard Linn) felt mat on my LP12 with an Airbourne cork mat costing just under £14 from https://www.normanrecords.com/records/166420-slipmat?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwJKpz-Gp5QIVWIXVCh2qBwmLEAQYAiABEgLlB_D_BwE
The Wife (importantly), 2 friends, a son and myself all thought the sound was improved by this change - better defined bass and a little more clarity through mid and treble.
A relatively inexpensive tweak that works well with my LP12/Ittok LVII/Kiseki Blue Gold Spot but, of course, may not suit other TTs.
I have one here and the edge got torn, looks like cork to me, even the pattern you can see in it looks like compressed cork.
Not sure what you have but my OL mat is 100% not cork. Looks more like impregnated felt. And it works better than any other mat I’ve tried. Well worth the money.
Not sure what you have but my OL mat is 100% not cork. Looks more like impregnated felt. And it works better than any other mat I’ve tried. Well worth the money.
In total agreement, it’s deffo not cork, if I remember correctly reading OLs own info it is made fro a composite material whose composition they are keeping quiet about, I also have found it gives excellent results with various platter compositions, only reason I don’t use it on my Rega is because it’s so much thinner than the standard mat and would warrant shimming the cartridge to get the vta correct.
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Wakefield Turntables
17-03-2020, 10:31
Tried many many mats. My two main decks, my 301 and 1210 have had many mat variations. The 301 now sports a Tenuto which disposed the old garrard 301 mat. The garrard 301 mat fended off many challengers before it was usurped. The technics sports a crystal audio mat, I've not heard anything better yet.
Ammonite Audio
17-03-2020, 12:19
The only aftermarket mat that I have used, which pretty much always results in a better and more pleasing sound, is the Funk Achromat. One exception is my Thorens TD-124 where the original 60s hard (and ribbed) rubber mat is clearly best, at least to my ears. The simple truth here is that different mats alter the acoustic impedance interface between LP and platter, and that alone will change the sound character - whether for better or worse is a personal judgement so, as ever, YMMV.
Spectral Morn
17-03-2020, 13:55
Can't believe what folk will pay for a Tenuto mat, just cos they're copper, which only has a material value of about £20, similar with Audio note and their silver and gold wiring, snake oil, and very expensive snake oil.
The copper mat is over priced agreed, its not like an Oyaide mat that had lovely machining and a gentle tapper to help with warps. I could see the money with those but not the copper ones, had one briefly bought of here but it was warped, so sent it back. That is its own story..... :doh:
Re silver cabling and Audio Note, not snake oil, having heard and owned some ANS, ANV.
Spectral Morn
17-03-2020, 13:58
The only aftermarket mat that I have used, which pretty much always results in a better and more pleasing sound, is the Funk Achromat. One exception is my Thorens TD-124 where the original 60s hard (and ribbed) rubber mat is clearly best, at least to my ears. The simple truth here is that different mats alter the acoustic impedance interface between LP and platter, and that alone will change the sound character - whether for better or worse is a personal judgement so, as ever, YMMV.
The Funk mat does work nicely on many turntables.
One exception is my Thorens TD-124 where the original 60s hard (and ribbed) rubber mat is clearly best, at least to my ears. The simple truth here is that different mats alter the acoustic impedance interface between LP and platter, and that alone will change the sound character - whether for better or worse is a personal judgement so, as ever, YMMV.
Agreed. I tried different aftermarket mats on my Thorens TD124/IIs and ultimately ended up preferring the original rubber mat. I do use a Mitchell clamp which I think helps.
WESTLOWER
17-03-2020, 15:28
Agreed. I tried different aftermarket mats on my Thorens TD124/IIs and ultimately ended up preferring the original rubber mat. I do use a Mitchell clamp which I think helps.
I thought the Gunmetal mat gave a nice snap to the sound on the Thorens TD124/II.
I do sometimes go back to the original mat but always seem to end up back on the Puresound Tenuto Gunmetal jobbie,
it also looks the nuts.. ;)
Ammonite Audio
17-03-2020, 16:37
I thought the Gunmetal mat gave a nice snap to the sound on the Thorens TD124/II.
I do sometimes go back to the original mat but always seem to end up back on the Puresound Tenuto Gunmetal jobbie,
it also looks the nuts.. ;)
Is that placed directly on the main platter, or on the top platter?
i use my one directly on the platter if that helps.
WESTLOWER
18-03-2020, 09:32
Is that placed directly on the main platter, or on the top platter?
Hi Hugo
no I take the top platter off and the Tenuto goes directly onto of the bottom platter
I did want to give a thin silicone mat between the 2 platters a go but never got round to it and am happy...atm!
I thought the Gunmetal mat gave a nice snap to the sound on the Thorens TD124/II.
I do sometimes go back to the original mat but always seem to end up back on the Puresound Tenuto Gunmetal jobbie,
it also looks the nuts.. ;)
I have never tried a metal mat (of any description), and would be interested in trying one. However they are expensive to buy and I'm not interested in 'tinkering' with my TTs, plinths, arms etc. much these days.
If I was still working, I would be able to have a metal mat machined for me for little cost (though gunmetal might have been difficult).
WESTLOWER
19-03-2020, 08:29
I have never tried a metal mat (of any description), and would be interested in trying one. However they are expensive to buy and I'm not interested in 'tinkering' with my TTs, plinths, arms etc. much these days.
If I was still working, I would be able to have a metal mat machined for me for little cost (though gunmetal might have been difficult).
When this nightmare we're are all in is over, you are welcome to loan Mine for a play.
Ooooh, how vary 'Suits you sir'.
WESTLOWER
19-03-2020, 13:11
Ooooh, how vary 'Suits you sir'.
Wot? :scratch:
When this nightmare we're are all in is over, you are welcome to loan Mine for a play.
That's a very kind offer Adam. Yes, when this nightmare is over I would be interested in borrowing (;)) yours.
Thanks
Barry
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