View Full Version : Live vs Recorded sound
Light Dependant Resistor
24-02-2020, 09:14
About 55 years ago , audio manufacturer Acoustic Research in tandem with Dynaco held public demonstrations comparing live sound to
recorded sound. It is documented here: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/869-live-versus-recorded-truth-in-listening/
Should it, or could it, happen again ?
In about '73 at the then "Sondex" EXHIBITION IN London Spendor did a cross fade between a live guitarist and their then new BC1s. It was pretty good but the BC1s could not provide the level required and distortion was audible.
Light Dependant Resistor
24-02-2020, 10:01
Hi Dennis
Spencer and Dorothy what a great team they were. They would have though I am sure used the experience to further improve the BC1. AR and Dynaco went to considerable trouble to use the best source and replay equipment
Here from the article about the 10pi speaker tests " Any shortcomings that were revealed would naturally be attributed to the speakers, even if some other link in the chain were actually at fault. I was surprised (and relieved!) when the demo was a smash success. As it proceeded, there were times when it was impossible to distinguish between the tape and Neil’s playing. As my ears became acclimated, I could pick up a slight "boxy" coloration to the snare drum that occasionally betrayed the recorded source, but overall—very impressive. I felt strangely vindicated. My thoughts were along the lines of, "Aha! What do all you AR skeptics say now!"
For me, this demo was particularly fascinating because I am a jazz drummer, intimately familiar with all the nuances of playing, the mechanics of the drumset, the variations in sound that can be elicited from the drums and cymbals depending on how and where they’re struck, etc."
I can remember at an audio show, Quad were demonstrating their 66 system electronics with the 63 speakers. They were playing some clarinet music. About halfway through the demonstration they faded out the music and at the same time a clarinettist took over playing live. Quad were hoping no-one would be able to hear the difference.
Sadly the difference was obvious - no way could you confuse the two.
I think the problem with such live vs. recorded demonstrations is the recording includes the acoustic of the performance. To do the job properly one would need to record a soloist playing in the same acoustic as that of the demonstration.
I can remember at an audio show, Quad were demonstrating their 66 system electronics with the 63 speakers. They were playing some clarinet music. About halfway through the demonstration they faded out the music and at the same time a clarinettist took over playing live. Quad were hoping no-one would be able to hear the difference.
Sadly the difference was obvious - no way could you confuse the two.
I think the problem with such live vs. recorded demonstrations is the recording includes the acoustic of the performance. To do the job properly one would need to record a soloist playing in the same acoustic as that of the demonstration.
Assuming your recording mics could capture everything identically to how we would hear it if we were there live. But they can't. If someone invented the perfect mic then live/recorded would be worth comparing. Can't see how it could be done though. A recording is always going to be a facsimile. But I think, as it is, it is possible to be fooled with a recording of a single instrument, very carefully recorded and replayed to the highest standard.
Discopants
24-02-2020, 23:14
https://www.avforums.com/threads/the-ultimate-hifi-challenge.2272449/
£270k system demo later this year vs Steinway model D grand piano in concert hall in Warsaw.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
dave2010
25-02-2020, 06:41
https://www.avforums.com/threads/the-ultimate-hifi-challenge.2272449/
£270k system demo later this year vs Steinway model D grand piano in concert hall in Warsaw.
Sent from my iPad using TapatalkA few points.
1. If the replay is done in a hall similar to a concert hall (which is the case here) a recording of a single instrument - in this case a piano - might sound rather like a similar instrument played live in that hall or a similar one.
2. Restricting the "test" to only a piano is not going to give the effect of a much larger orchestra or band.
3. Even if the results are reasonably good in the hall, it does not follow automatically that such good results will be possible in a domestic environment - unless of course one's home has a concert hall within it.
The piano will experience two sets of acoustic; playing room and listening room.
The piano will experience two sets of acoustic; playing room and listening room.
Agreed. Even if the same venue is used for both the recording and playback (with the piano removed for the playback), the recording will contain the 'acoustic' of the venue and on replay the listener will be presented with the acoustic twice: that recorded and that on replay.
Many years ago, in 1954 Gilbert Briggs of Wharfedale gave a live vs. recorded demonstration at the Festival Hall in London. There were several Wharfedale models on demonstration (one of which I think was the SFB3 sand filled baffle design), using Quad amplification (22 with paralleled Quad II power amplifiers: a maximum of 60W), and a Garrard 301 TT with a Ferranti ribbon pickup (mono only; which gives an idea of the 'state of the art' at that time).
https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Royal-Festival-Hall-Quad-Wharfedale-demonstration-2-e1496181506740.jpg
The audience were presented with a small group of players and pianist, interdispersed with LP replay (presumably with the players 'miming' along). Remarkably the audience, for the large part, were unable to tell the difference; and secondly concert hall levels of volume could apparently be achieved with no more than 60W of amplifier power.
I'm not sure that were such a demonstration be held today it would be as successful.
Sadly, I don't think that that many people would attend
Check this out...
https://youtu.be/_lmXi1y1fzs
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