View Full Version : Unexplained casualty - My AT-OC9
twelvebears
24-06-2010, 06:48
I have sad news.
I have to report the unexpected and untimely death of my AT-OC9 :(
I have no idea exactly who or how, but I happened to look at the cartridge last night while clearing the room in preparation to fit a new floor and noticed there was something wrong with the cantilever.
And by wrong, I mean it was completely gone. I don't mean gone as in really badly damaged, but that IT JUST SIMPLY WASN'T THERE ANYMORE!!
Although I don't use the full lid or stylus cover (lesson learned there eh?), I do have one of Dave C's cool Perspex covers that goes over the platter and the whole length of the arm and cartridge, so it would have been pretty hard to get snagged and snapped off the way it has.
Likely suspects are either our excellent and usually very careful cleaner, or more likely, Percy our cat.
Either way, it is totally RIP and so I need a replacement.
As a result, I'm considering whether I should just get another AT-OC9 or something else and am looking for suggestions up to £400-ish
As you can see, the luck winner will be living on a Jelco 750.
Anyone tried the AT33EV?
The 33PTG if still available would be my choice, possibly ZYX R100 and Dynavector 17D3, or the Sumiko Blackbird for a high output version.
Up to £400, I doubt you'd get better, but then, I use an elderly Stilton OC9 and prefer its neutrality to the ballistic rounded-off nature of the competition by Ortofon and others.
twelvebears
24-06-2010, 07:17
Hi Dave.
In the absence of the AT33PTG, the AT33EV was actually at the top of my list of possibles.
S.
The Vinyl Adventure
24-06-2010, 08:48
I would talk to dave, he was very helpful regarding my insurance etc
I explained to the insurance company that i didn't know what had happened. Got a claim sorted, dave did me a quote for repair... The insurance were happy with his quote... I went down there and we got me sorted....
chris@panteg
24-06-2010, 09:49
Moggies eh Steve ' don't you just love em , the Mog in my Avatar jumped on to my LP12 once ' just after the fitting of a troika and it was playing , so surreal , he just sat there .
it just stopped , i have never moved so fast in my life, lifted him off (gently of course) and luckily no damage .
I would suggest trying the DL103sa as you have the Jelco .
Steve,
There was a chap by the name of Mellstock over on the 'other forum' (the 'wam) who had a load of 33PTGs he'd bought back from a trip to Japan - I was going to have one if the nearly new one hadn't come up. Might be worth a PM to him to see if he has any left? Thread was here (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?41476-FS-Audio-Technica-AT33PTG-brand-new-unused-%C2%A3249&highlight=AT33)
Jason
Hi Steve,
Sorry to hear of your accident :(
Regarding replacement cartridges, are you looking for a change in sound? If not, I'd simply go for another OC-9, as you obviously liked what it did before :)
The AT-33PTG, if you can get one, would be an obvious replacement if you want more of the same basic sonic characteristics, although the PTG is in my opinion the better cartridge, and has deeper, more 'articulate' bass and an overall smoother sound, but not in any way rounded-off or 'syrupy'. It just loses that rather 'over-insistent' top-end of the OC-9.
I haven't heard the 33-EV, so can't comment, but I'd imagine that it would have the AT 'family sound', and be pretty close in terms of presentation to the 33-PTG.
The 103SA is also an option, if you want a different type of presentation that majors on tone, timbre and an beguilingly communicative midrange (think how valves sound in that area and you've got it), along with deep, tight, rhythmically propulsive bass, and an open and expressive top-end, if losing out very slightly to the OC-9 and 33-PTG in terms of high-frequency filigree detail retrieval.
To accommodate the 103SA, though, you'd have to factor in the cost of a high-mass headshell, as the Jelco one isn't quite heavy enough to optimise the full potential of the SA, not to mention the addition of an SUT, such as the A23.
However, I'll throw a rather leftfield choice into the mix....... I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but I recently swapped my 103SA for an Ortofon SPU Classic GM MKII, which positively loves the Jelco 750!
What phono stage have you got - and does it have variable loading/gain?
If so, I can tell you from experience, having owned OC-9s, 33-PTGs and 103SAs, that the SPU has all the 'balls' and midrange communication of the 103SA (in fact more so) and the top-end clarity and detail retrieval of the OC-9 and 33-PTG.
It's quite frankly a wonderful sounding cartridge and so musically 'right' it defies belief!
It also doesn't possess in any way the rather fruity sounding, 'phat' bass of older SPUs which used a plastic/bakelite headshell, nor their rolled-off top-end. The new ones now come in a special wood resin headshell, and sound as fresh as a daisy with the right tonearm and phono stage - and you have the right tonearm, as it's basically the same as Ortofon's own TA-100 (which Jelco make for them) and Ortofon use with their SPUs, shown here:
http://www.ortofon.com/products/tonearms/ta-100
Ortofon TA-100:
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1194/ta100sh1.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/ta100sh1.jpg/)
Jelco SA-750:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8288/sa750.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/sa750.jpg/)
Spot the difference..... Other than the counterweight balance and the top of the bearing housing (lack of fluid damping facility?), I'm not getting much, and the Ortofon costs £550 more!! Bloody 'audiophile badges', eh? ;)
The SPU Classic GM MKII is available for £600 from Audio Affair:
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2697
I mean, how exquisitely retro-sexy does this look??
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9652/spu.gif (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/spu.gif/)
:eek: And no ugly headshell wires or screws in sight!
Oh, and aesthetically, it looks absolutely GORGEOUS on the end of the Jelco - as if they were made for each other, which of course they (almost) were.
Anyway, it was just a thought if you fancied something a bit different! Good luck with the selection process and keep us posted of events :cool:
Marco.
saltleyseagulls
24-06-2010, 11:21
If you want to better the Ortofon then get a Decca London Super Gold or above in the London range.
I own both and wouldn't part with either but the Decca does things the Ortofon doesn't.
Indeed, and vice-versa; that's why I'll be adding a Decca to my collection in the near future :)
Now, can we have your first name and location please, mate? I've asked you this before on more than one occasion. It's something we insist new members provide here, and unfortunately you may lose your posting rights if you choose not to comply. We don't do 'anonymous' on AOS.
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2010, 11:56
..........as it's basically the same as Ortofon's own TA-100 (which Jelco make for them) and Ortofon use with their SPUs, shown here:
http://www.ortofon.com/products/tonearms/ta-100
Ortofon TA-100:
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1194/ta100sh1.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/ta100sh1.jpg/)
Jelco SA-750:
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8288/sa750.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/sa750.jpg/)
Spot the difference..... Other than the counterweight balance and the top of the bearing housing (lack of fluid damping facility?), I'm not getting much, and the Ortofon costs £550 more!! Bloody 'audiophile badges', eh? ;)
I believe it's got some holes or slots in the underside & some added internal 'rubberware'.
Hi Chris,
Thanks for that. But why I wonder would they put holes or slots on the underside of the armtube (presumably to reduce mass?) on what is essentially an arm designed for the SPU, which requires high-mass? :scratch:
The "rubberware" will obviously be to dampen the armtube more (thus reducing resonance), which is fair enough, but nevertheless neither, IMO, are worth the extra £550 onto the price tag of the Jelco 750 :mental:
I detect some significant 'slurping' from middle men going on here.... Basically, you can buy two Jelcos for the price of an 'Ortofon'!
Note my use of inverted commas ;)
Marco.
twelvebears
24-06-2010, 13:29
Cheers for the recommendations guys. I must admit that the retro-cool looks of the SPU are very attractive, especially as it clearly comes with totally modern sonics!
Would I need a SUT or just a decent phono stage?
On that point, this is also on my list as I don't have one at the moment because it was built into my MF M3, so this is also on my list (recommendations welcome of course).
In reality I will be holding off on any purchases (unless a massive bargain come along in the meantime) until the listening den is finished and everything is safely installed away from the cat and cleaner!
On that point, brickwork is now at head height and the roof goes on this weekend.
Hi Steve,
Cheers for the recommendations guys. I must admit that the retro-cool looks of the SPU are very attractive, especially as it clearly comes with totally modern sonics!
Would I need a SUT or just a decent phono stage?
It looks and feels even more like a thing of beauty in the flesh, and when you cue it up, trust me! ;)
On the evidence of what I heard on Tuesday night at a friend's house, it works superbly straight into a good active MC phono stage (with decent gain - minimum 32db or preferably more) at 100 Ohms.
In my system, I need a properly matched SUT, as the Croft only has an MM input. The A23 (103) works pretty well, but has clearly been voiced with a 103 in mind, and so is not optimal, sonically, with the SPU. I'm therefore awaiting the arrival of an A23 (SPU) for trial from James at The Sound Practice. It should be here soon, and I will report back accordingly :)
Rest assured, Steve, that the bit above in bold is absolutely the case. This SPU is NOT in any way from the same mould as the 'phat' sounding SPUs of yesteryear - I wouldn't use it otherwise, but it has all the 'soul' of the best vintage cartridges, which makes for a beguiling and thrilling listen with all genres of music. It positively excels though in reproducing the sound of acoustic instruments and the human voice.
In Dave's system it trounced his Troika (in a Kenwood L-07D) and made his £2k ZYX Airy 3 (in a 12" SME arm on a Nakamichi TX-1000) sound rather bland and ordinary. For £600 (with the right arm and phono stage) it's a total unmitigated bargain!
On that point, this is also on my list as I don't have one at the moment because it was built into my MF M3, so this is also on my list (recommendations welcome of course).
Take your time and make sure you make the right decision, but I suspect you'd love the SPU. If you lived closer you'd be welcome to pop round for a listen :cool:
In reality I will be holding off on any purchases (unless a massive bargain come along in the meantime) until the listening den is finished and everything is safely installed away from the cat and cleaner!
On that point, brickwork is now at head height and the roof goes on this weekend.
Nice one - I bet you can't wait to get in there! Keep us posted of progress on both fronts.
Marco.
I wonder would they put holes or slots on the underside of the armtube
To reduce resonance...
Yup, but also at the same time, mass....which is NOT what an SPU wants! :)
Marco.
Mass, mass, mass.... *yawn* That's all you kids think about these days! :lol:
I don't think the holes/slots were put there to reduce the mass. But it will (obviously!) be a side effect. Then again, you could always get some of (if not all) the mass back by stuffing the tube with 'internal rubberware' for instance, which would further reduce resonance by adding damping! ;)
Indeed! However, it's all a mish-mash of nonsense that in no way justifies a price premium of FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY bloody quid over the Jelco/A.K.A 'Ortofon', or whatever! :eyebrows: :mental:
Marco.
Indeed! However, it's all a mish-mash of nonsense that in no way justifies a price premium of FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY bloody quid over the Jelco/A.K.A 'Ortofon', or whatever! :eyebrows: :mental:
Agreed! :exactly:
The classic SPU's DON'T have modern sonics, but the Royal N that Speedy-Steve had may well have by comparison. HiFi dave had a new SPU in shell last year and fitted it to an FR64, one of the massiest arms of recent decades. It sounded just as I know old SPU's to sound - plump and with a generous dose of golden syrup elsewhere. The Decca Gold was in a different league by comparison, but Dave is hesitant to recommend the lower models because of old unreliability issues which burned us both, me personally.
The only argument I can respectfully present to you is that low bass was lowered in level when many vinyls were being cut and the AT "family" reproduces this, the PTG with more "authority" as Marco suggested. My feeling is that the SPU's and similar try to put this bass back, but traditionally tracking of modern high-level pressings suffered badly. the modern diamond profiles may be better here though.
Please remember that the average bass level in recordings from the seventies to the nineties increased by around 10db apparently, as speakers got smaller and less boomy and more bass was required in the recordings to sort-of compensate. perhaps the monitors used became tauter in the bass, I cannot say for sure.
That's one benefit of having removable headshells - one can have a stack of cartridges and play with them as anal far eastern audio buffs do :lol:
here's my collection of junk - er vintage cartridges.....
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1343-1.jpg
ADC ZLM, XLMIII, ADC 26, Stanton 681EEE, M3D/N21, B&O MMC20CL, Sonus Blue, Ortofon M20 FL Super, Supex SD900E Super, B&O SP12, Ortofon MC30 Super
Anyway, back to the topic...
If you like the Audio Technica sound I'd look for a 33PTG, I sort of regret parting with mine. Or! You could try and find a healthy ART1 (not easy!), less top end lift than the 33 and with much better bass. Midrange is about the same, maybe a touch 'sweeter'.
Hi Dave,
The classic SPU's DON'T have modern sonics... HiFi dave had a new SPU in shell last year and fitted it to an FR64, one of the massiest arms of recent decades. It sounded just as I know old SPU's to sound - plump and with a generous dose of golden syrup elsewhere.
Sorry, that's UTTER BULLSHIT!!! The one I have now most certainly has 'modern sonics', both in my system and in Dave Anderton's, the other night, where it made the ZXY Airy 3, to my ears, sound somewhat bland in comparison. The SPU I have also sounds NOTHING like you describe above!!!!!!!!
Dave was so blown away by the SPU that's he's going to buy one himself! I must ask him to comment here.
The only conclusion I can reach is that the FR64 you used was f*cked, the SPU was loaded incorrectly, the test system was pish, and/or yer high-frequency hearing loss, old chap, is worse than you thought! :lol: :ner:
Marco.
.....the premium price one thus often has to pay for an 'audiophile badge'.
Such as "Ortofon SPU"! :D
It's only £600, Mikey, which is feck all for an quality MC these days, when you consider that some of the vastly overpriced so-called 'hi-end' offerings on the market, so many of which IME, flatter to decieve!
Marco.
"Only"... He says! :rolleyes:
"Only"... He says! :rolleyes:
Not only that, Marco will happily spend £35 on an audio quality 13A mains plug! ;)
Regards
Ammonite Audio
24-06-2010, 17:40
I'm very happy with the AT33PTG in the Jelco. It came from the same eBay supplier as this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/audio-technica-AT33EV-MC-Cartridge-/200405513059?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ea9197363 who I can wholeheartedly recommend, if you need to buy from Japan. They were really quick, and kept me informed of every stage up to despatch and I didn't get stung for import duty!
The classic SPU's DON'T have modern sonics, but the Royal N that Speedy-Steve had may well have by comparison. HiFi dave had a new SPU in shell last year and fitted it to an FR64, one of the massiest arms of recent decades. It sounded just as I know old SPU's to sound - plump and with a generous dose of golden syrup elsewhere. The Decca Gold was in a different league by comparison, but Dave is hesitant to recommend the lower models because of old unreliability issues which burned us both, me personally.
The only argument I can respectfully present to you is that low bass was lowered in level when many vinyls were being cut and the AT "family" reproduces this, the PTG with more "authority" as Marco suggested. My feeling is that the SPU's and similar try to put this bass back, but traditionally tracking of modern high-level pressings suffered badly. the modern diamond profiles may be better here though.
Please remember that the average bass level in recordings from the seventies to the nineties increased by around 10db apparently, as speakers got smaller and less boomy and more bass was required in the recordings to sort-of compensate. perhaps the monitors used became tauter in the bass, I cannot say for sure.
That's one benefit of having removable headshells - one can have a stack of cartridges and play with them as anal far eastern audio buffs do :lol:
here's my collection of junk - er vintage cartridges.....
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1343-1.jpg
ADC ZLM, XLMIII, ADC 26, Stanton 681EEE, M3D/N21, B&O MMC20CL, Sonus Blue, Ortofon M20 FL Super, Supex SD900E Super, B&O SP12, Ortofon MC30 Super
I feel a bit awkward here, but I have been asked to 'interject' concerning the Ortofon SPU. Awkward, because I have the highest respect for you opinions of audio components: your time spent in the retail trade means that many components passed your ears, and now that you are out of that profession, have no 'axe to grind'. I say this with no sense of groveling sycophancy; it's a purely pragmatic approach of mine.
So to the SPU itself. I will confess from the outset, that I have very little experience of this cartridge except to say that I have had much experience of the Ortofon SL15E and SL15E Mk II, both successors to the SPU, and of the EMT TSD (in various guises) itself designed by Ortofon to EMT's specification and thus possessing strong 'family' audio similarities. I am also aware of the cult status the SPU has in Japan: the sole reason why the SPU has remained in 'unbroken' production since 1948.
Clearly a cartridge design that is over 60 years old will no longer be 'state of the art', but to describe it as ".... plump and with a generous dose of golden syrup elsewhere. " is overdoing it. I have recently heard Marco's SPU (GM Classic MkII, I think), albeit for less than a couple of hours but did not find it to be as you decribe. I was aware of you opinion of the SPU, and because of that was expecting to find it rich, lush or 'romantic' in the mid range.
So what did I hear? Well on some recordings, such as those made in the late 50's, e.g. on Capitol, and depending on the artist recorded, the mid can sound full-bodied and at times a little too much. However on modern recordings there is little trace of this. What I heard (under non-optimised conditions) was a cartridge of great articulation: just listen to anything by Ricky Lee Jones for a demonstration of this.
To my ears (and I emphasise 'my'), the Shure M3D/N21 had a 'dryer' or leaner mid, that I slightly prefered, but there was not a lot in it: certainly not enough to over exagerate the term 'mellifluous'. I should add that the frequency extremes, bass and treble were considerably better than that of the Shure.
Finally to return to the Japanese adoration of the SPU (especially of the original SPUs), one should perhaps consider why it appears so acceptable to Japanese ears. What little traditional Japanese music I have heard and possess, suggests that it is indeed the mid and upper mid that is important. I have in mind: the shamishen (a 3 stringed 'guitar', played with a plectrum); the koto (a 13 stringed 'zyther', but having a moveable bridge on each of the strings and played with three finger picks) and the flute. These instruments are also rich in high frequency harmonics, which with the frequent use of the wood block, require a cartridge to display good attack.
So a cartridge which perhaps ought not to be so readily dismissed, save for the asking price. But in the light of prices asked for top-of-the-range cartidges these days (Koetsus, the Transfiguration Orpheus, Lyras and Ortofon's latest 'wuderkinds'), it would appear to be quite reasonable.
Regards
PS Dave, if you ever want to get rid of either your B&O SP12 or MMC 20CL, can I have first refusal?
OK Barry :)
The SP12 is new and I think the 20CL is ex-dem as well. Both have a "distant" balance for my ears and the 12 is too microphonic in the Dual headslide (I haven't taken the blu-tac option with it I'll admit.
For me, the M3D/N21 is huge fun, but very coloured and with high frequency tracing that has me worried for my records..
As for the SPU - each to their own. I much prefer the SL15E from memory. THAT is one cartridge I would like to try (with a modern stylus).
I'm saving it for "later" but away from a 1980's LP12 the MC30 Super sounds lovely, with a slightly calmer treble than the old OC9 is giving me, great tracking and without the detached bass I had on my original sample many years ago.
Spectral Morn
25-06-2010, 09:10
Lets hand this thread back to the original topic. Sorry Steve for the massive thread drift.
John has opened a new thread in blank canvas dealing with the questions surrounding this discussion on pricing and dealer vs direct selling models. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6813
Regards D S D L
Hi Barry,
I feel a bit awkward here, but I have been asked to 'interject' concerning the Ortofon SPU. Awkward, because I have the highest respect for you opinions of audio components: your time spent in the retail trade means that many components passed your ears, and now that you are out of that profession, have no 'axe to grind'. I say this with no sense of groveling sycophancy; it's a purely pragmatic approach of mine.
Thanks for interjecting. I would wholeheartedly echo your sentiments regarding Dave. I however thought it important to provide some balance, less Steve would dismiss the SPU on grounds which I do not feel represent its true and intrinsic sonic qualities.
However, I feel it must be said that we all have our faults, and much as I like and respect Dave and his considerable experience in audio, one of his is, IMO, and I say this with the best of intentions, the tendency to apportion a little too much credence to what he discovered with equipment, in some cases, over 30 years ago, without taking sufficient consideration of the multitude of variables likely responsible for explaining why something he heard then doesn't necessarily sound the same to someone else when listening to it now. I believe that there's a little inflexibility shown in that approach.
Personally, I think it's dangerous to form definitive, 'set-in-stone' opinions of any piece of audio equipment unless one has used it and analysed its effect in a multitude of different applications in order to eliminate as far as possible any errors of judgement, and that one should always acknowledge credence in someone else's differing opinion of a product, in turn entertaining the notion that one may not have heard that product at its best, or indeed that someone else may been more fortuitous in that respect.
In such circumstances, I'd suggest that it's prudent to take steps to re-evaluate one's opinion accordingly of that product, or at least consider that one's 'definitive' opinion of it is perhaps not as definitive as one had first imagined....... ;)
I shall say no more on that subject, nor do I have anything further to add to your observations of the SPU, which I concur with entirely. As such, it should deservedly remain on Steve's list of new cartidges for his consideration to purchase :)
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Sorry, that's UTTER BULLSHIT!!! The one I have now most certainly has 'modern sonics', both in my system and in Dave Anderton's, the other night, where it made the ZXY Airy 3, to my ears, sound somewhat bland in comparison. The SPU I have also sounds NOTHING like you describe above!!!!!!!!
Dave was so blown away by the SPU that's he's going to buy one himself! I must ask him to comment here.
The only conclusion I can reach is that the FR64 you used was f*cked, the SPU was loaded incorrectly, the test system was pish, and/or yer high-frequency hearing loss, old chap, is worse than you thought! :lol: :ner:
Marco.
Perhaps you'd like to challenge hifi dave instead of me. It was his cartridge and arm (which was in mint condition).
Why do you always have a go at me, as if my ears are so shot they can't hear anything? The "test" system was a Croft series 25/7 and Harbeth 40.1's, hardly a pish setup and Dave & I both have experience of SPU's going back thity five years or more. This brand new one just sounded like all the others. The Royal N is claimed to have less bass, an aknowledgement that there's too much to start with.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0561-1.jpg
What's the use. I've already had to question my expertise twice last year because of these spats and I can't deal with any more. If you like the bloody SPU then fine. I wonder if you'll go increasingly off CD as a result?
Give me a friggin' Decca any day.....
Dave,
I don't wish to get into a spat with you about this. The sole reason I pulled you up was because of this specific remark:
The classic SPU's DON'T have modern sonics...
...with your emphasis of the word "don't" - as if what you'd written were an undisputable FACT. This is far from the truth. What I am supposed to do? Just sit back and allow you to slate a very good cartridge which sounds the POLAR OPPOSITE in my system to how you've described it, and put other people off it (wrongly, IMO) in the process??
Dave, do you honestly believe that I would use something which sounds like, I quote: "plump and with a generous dose of golden syrup" - is that the sort of sound I'm reputed here as liking?
The problem was that you were presenting your opinion as fact, and not simply as your valid opinion, which you (and hi-fi dave) are perfectly entitled to. An opinion is an opinion, but a fact is something entirely different..... Had you put "IMHO" before the above quote, then we wouldn't be arguing now! ;)
You should know, Dave, that any equipment, cartridges included, can sound very different from one system to another.
And let's not forget that it's not just in my system that the SPU sounds wide-open, detailed and dynamic, expressive, and beguiling in so many ways, but also in Dave Anderton's (on his L-07D), which is completely solid-state based and entirely different to mine. Basically, in our systems, it ROCKS! :fingers:
I've asked Dave to comment, and have been informed he will do so later.
I've noticed too that in your picture the cartridge you were using to compare with the SPU is what looks like a Lyra Argo(i), which I've owned in the past. No wonder you found the SPU as you've described, using it side-by-side with that rather brightly-lit 'toppy' sounding monstrosity. It would be akin to comparing ice-cold vodka with vintage Barolo.... That's only my opinion of the Lyra, incidentally, not a fact! :eyebrows:
Also, the Lyra is fitted to the Spacearm, which one would imagine is specifically designed to compliment the Spacedeck. Could it be perhaps that the FR/SPU combo just didn't suit the Spacedeck? I think that this is highly possible. Synergy is all-important, after all, especially when so many variables exist. I think you should hear the SPU in a suitable arm on a quality direct-drive T/T, where I suspect its sonic characteristics are more likely better appreciated.
I only sought to provide some balance by offering my contrary and equally valid opinion in order that Steve can make up his own mind based on a variety of opinions and information presented to him.
Your opinions are always welcome, and I enjoy having discussions with you, but perhaps in future you could consider that whatever you've heard in relation to a particular piece of hi-fi equipment is not necessarily what anyone else or I will hear in an entirely different system.....................
I trust you appreciate where I'm coming from now and we can draw a line under this particular matter? :)
I also love Deccas, and will be adding a London Gold to my cartridge collection in due course. Why settle for just one type of musical presentation, when you can enjoy many different flavours! :cool:
Marco.
Dave,
I don't wish to get into a spat with you about this. The sole reason I pulled you up was because of this specific remark:
...with your emphasis on the word "don't" - as if it were an undisputable FACT that the classic SPUs currently available on the market DON'T have modern sonics. This is far from the truth. What I am supposed to do? Just sit back and allow you to slate a very good cartridge which sounds the POLAR OPPOSITE in my system to how you've described it, and put other people off it (wrongly, IMO) in the process??
Do you honestly believe that I would use something which sounds like, I quote: "plump and with a generous dose of golden syrup" - is that the sort of sound I'm reputed here as liking?
The problem was that you were presenting your opinion as fact, and not simply as your valid opinion, which you (and hi-fi dave) are perfectly entitled to. An opinion is an opinion, but a fact is something entirely different..... Had you put "IMHO" before the above quote, then we wouldn't be arguing now! ;)
You should know, Dave, that any equipment, cartridges included, can sound very different from one system to another.
And let's not forget that it's not just in my system that the SPU sounds wide-open, detailed and dynamic, expressive, and beguiling in so many ways, but also in Dave Anderton's, which is completely solid-state based and entirely different to mine. Basically, in our systems, it ROCKS! :fingers:
I've asked Dave to comment, and have been informed he will do so later.
I only sought to provide some balance by offering my contrary and equally valid opinion in order that Steve can make up his own mind based on a variety of opinions and information presented to him.
Your opinions are always welcome, and I enjoy having discussions with you, but perhaps in future you could consider that whatever you've heard in relation to a particular piece of hi-fi equipment is not necessarily what anyone else or I will hear in an entirely different system.....................
I trust you appreciate where I'm coming from now and we can draw a line under this particular matter? :)
I also love Deccas, and will be adding a London Gold to my cartridge collection in due course. Why settle for just one type of musical presentation, when you can enjoy many different flavours! :cool:
Marco.
Would you be interested in borrowing one of mine to try? They are old models but have had little use, so the stylii are in good condition. I have a Mk.V (aka the 'Blue') with a spherical tip and a Mk. VI (aka the 'Gold') with an elliptical tip. I could supply one with the GB mounting block, which goes some way towards ameliorating the presence of the awful thin metal housing. Unfortuately they both use an awkward three-terminal connection.
If you find that you like them, you can rest assured that modern Deccas come with a big improvement in the quality of workmanship, are less variable and track better.
PM me if interested.
Regards
Hi Barry,
Yes please! Perhaps you could send it along with your transformer for the SPU?
Cheers, dude! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Barry,
Yes please! Perhaps you could send it along with your transformer for the SPU?
Cheers, dude! :cool:
Marco.
Deccas are quite different and unlike just about any other cartridge. They have to be treated differently for installation. It would be best if we discussed this over the phone, as they are not a cartridge that you can simply take out of the box and install as though it were one of a conventional design. This is especially true if the GB mounting block is used.
Will give you a call around 19:00 tonight if that 's OK.
(Apologies to other AoS members; these details really ought to be made via PMs rather than in the open forum.)
Regards
twelvebears
25-06-2010, 13:12
"Only"... He says! :rolleyes:
Well my AT-OC9 'only' cost me £390 which I thought was a snip until the cat snapped the fucking cantilever off.
It now seems quite expensive for the length of time it lasted.
Still it's successor will be safely out of cat range, so I'm not too worried.
Deccas are quite different and unlike just about any other cartridge. They have to be treated differently for installation. It would be best if we discussed this over the phone, as they are not a cartridge that you can simply take out of the box and install as though it were one of a conventional design. This is especially true if the GB mounting block is used.
Will give you a call around 19:00 tonight if that 's OK.
Fine by me, Barry!
Btw, the good thing is that Glenn Croft LOVES Deccas, and so do his phono stages ;)
Marco.
Hi Steve,
Well my AT-OC9 'only' cost me £390 which I thought was a snip until the cat snapped the fucking cantilever off.
It now seems quite expensive for the length of time it lasted.
Still it's successor will be safely out of cat range, so I'm not too worried.
So at least now you don't have to sack the cleaner!! :eyebrows:
Incidentally, I do hope the amusing little tête-à-tête between Dave and I hasn't put you off the SPU!
Marco.
I have sad news.
I have to report the unexpected and untimely death of my AT-OC9 :(
:(
Sad news indeed.
Well my AT-OC9 'only' cost me £390 which I thought was a snip until the cat snapped the fucking cantilever off.
If I were you I would have put the adjective 3 words earlier...:steam:
Hey Dimitri,
Has the Toyster eaten and drunk you out of house and home yet? :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
He's on his plane back to the woods and deers. ;)
(there's still some beer left ! Unbelievable ! :lol:)
Oh, btw, be warned : he listened to some [well amplified and fed with a Puccini] 12" Tannoys yesterday. And, fortunately the listening room's floor was not made of wood, so his jaws dropping didn't produce a hole. ;)
Beer left? Really??? Bloody hell, he must've been fasting!! :eek:
12" Tannoys? LOL! Which ones were they and who did they belong to? I wasn't aware you had any :)
Marco.
Beer left? Really??? Bloody hell, he must've been fasting!! :eek:
12" Tannoys? LOL! Which ones were they and who did they belong to? :)
Marco.
We went at my favorite shop (the ones of the makers of the Audiophile Technologie amps). ;)
And : YES, I have a huge fridge. :eyebrows:
Hehehehe, nice one.... So you don't remember which model of Tannoys they were? :)
Marco.
Tannoy Kensington Prestige I think. Perhaps a 10", I don't remember exactly.
Ah yes, I've heard those and they're rather good. The Kensingtons do indeed have 10" drivers - the still rock, though! :fingers:
He might get rid of those bloody Hecos now....... :lol: :eyebrows:
Marco.
He might get rid of those bloody Hecos now....... :lol: :eyebrows:
I guess that if he could get a grip on a reasonably priced second-hand pair of the Tannoys he would not hesitate a second. ;)
They cost around £10k new. :(
This is true! Why do you think I went the vintage route with Tannoys? ;)
Goodness knows what my Lockwoods (with 15" Monitor Golds) would cost if they were still made today!! :eek:
Marco.
twelvebears
27-06-2010, 08:09
:(
Sad news indeed.
If I were you I would have put the adjective 3 words earlier...:steam:
:lol:
chris@panteg
27-06-2010, 09:58
Well my AT-OC9 'only' cost me £390 which I thought was a snip until the cat snapped the fucking cantilever off.
It now seems quite expensive for the length of time it lasted.
Still it's successor will be safely out of cat range, so I'm not too worried.
Hi Steve
I was wondering what cart are you leaning too , have you asked Dave what price he will do you for the ML3 OC9 .
Well my AT-OC9 'only' cost me £390 which I thought was a snip until the cat snapped the fucking cantilever off.
It now seems quite expensive for the length of time it lasted.
Still it's successor will be safely out of cat range, so I'm not too worried.
Steve
The first thing that cat is going to want to do is to fully check out that new building at the end of your garden - are you sure you can keep him out?:eyebrows:
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