View Full Version : My Garrard 301 journey... almost there.
Hi guys and gals,
Ive been lurking in the shadows for sometime now whilst I put together my first idler TT.
I started the journey last July/august time when I started to brainstorm and research what I wanted with regards to looks and specs and have nibbled away at it as and when funds have allowed.
I’m getting pretty close to completion now so I thought I would share a few pics of what I have cobbled together.
People around me think I’m bloody bonkers having only just finished a pretty high spec LP12 which was stunning in all aspects, but , with the nature of this hobby , its always digging its claws in and I fancied a change, for better or worse.
Ive always been drawn to the vintage look (in all aspects of life not only hifi) and had been wondering how to take the style of yesteryear and build on its strengths and give a modern performance. So after speaking to a few people about its pros and cons i decided on a 301 as it sounded up my street.
A few names and parts kept coming up with regards to improving on the original .... audio silente idler wheel , Woodsongs eddy disc, various aftermarket bearings and platters upgrades, thicker aluminum chassis ,and so on.
After speaking to Ray at CTC , it seemed that his classic 301 incorporated all of the above but I wasn’t sure wether they made any differences so I decided to hunt around and speak to a few people online who had experience with both and overwhelmingly they said that the CTC 301 was an improvement on a standard 301 offering a touch more detail and 3D sound, so I decided to take the plunge and put my order in. It arrived this week and I have to say Ray has done a stunning job and was very happy to customise it for me in metallic black and do a polished platter as opposed to his standard all gloss black scheme.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/3877ceaefe1c1c6a3518366ca8f9a7a8.jpg
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After seeing all the rave reviews I decided that I had to get a Tenuto mat as they are one of the rare hifi products that doesn’t get a bad word said about it. So that’s what I did https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/ca4312b8f9c90c45092b8a72194b8aba.jpg
Next I set my sights on a new arm as I knew the roksan I had probably wasn’t quite right so I found an ex display Reed arm. I liked the sound of the 10.5 inch as it was a good compromise between the speed of 9 inch and tracking error of a 12 inch and the price was great so I pulled the trigger
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/83ff6a6e4634a4709d25b524300e30af.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/5cab165fb9a5c2ef6dac65eb1eb14c6a.jpg
I wanted a nice clamp but couldn’t find one anywhere so I decided to design my own . I sent the crude drawings to SPH (Sien the famous bearing maker) and he got me one knocked up in solid brass . After a good polish and seal it came up lovely https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/ff805ca461e9dde2ed3b53974828c3c3.jpg
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WESTLOWER
19-02-2020, 10:42
excellent Karl, i'm sure it will tick all your expectations sonically.
looks lovely, Ray does as great job.
Made in 1968
19-02-2020, 10:46
Nice
I do prefer the '401' but the cheap plastic Control panel & Horrid DJ style strobe platter is a no no. The '301' looks better in those respects, But no way on earth would i switch from a Modern motor TT like your Linn to one of these.
Next up a set sights on a plinth but unfortunately the money had dried up so I knew I had to offload the Linn before moving forward. Thankfully the little beauty sold itself in the blink of an eye so I got to work. As a bonus it has stayed in the family so I can go listen to it whenever I like. Result!
I couldnt get hold of Russ collinson who built my last plinth. He was apparently very busy with work and his private life so I contacted Chris Harban about one of his twin arm compact plinths. Not only do they look stunning but I liked the ideas behind its construction and materials so I put the order in. Unfortunately he to was very busy running up to Xmas so he is still putting together the plinth for me. It is almost there though so only a couple of weeks to wait now. This is the style I have gone for although a different veneer. I will likely go for an Audiomods 6 as my second arm.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/07fcee2b758db5c3e0ef5e12f95ec4b7.jpg
I have bought some Track Audio isolation feet for the plinth. Again the engineering and design behind these is superb and the finish is impeccable. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/1da7ee5b931900d805cb3fb7a5c56b4d.jpg
Next up I will be setting my sights on a power supply . I will add more pics to the page as I when I put it together .
If anybody has any thoughts or experience on some of the parts I’ve used then feel free to comment below.
Cheers
Karl
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Nice
I do prefer the '401' but the cheap plastic Control panel & Horrid DJ style strobe platter is a no no. The '301' looks better in those respects, But no way on earth would i switch from a Modern motor TT like your Linn to one of these.
I too was worried about the motor aspect but i have to say this 301 is VERY quiet indeed. Wether it’s the new motor bearings or the other new parts, or a combination of both, I’m pretty confident that by time it’s encased in the plinth and a decent power supply is strapped on, it will be almost silent .
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excellent Karl, i'm sure it will tick all your expectations sonically.
looks lovely, Ray does as great job.
Thanks mate, It’s certainly met them visually, and Ray has been first class with his help and advice all the way through. I’m surprised at how quiet it is as I expected more noise from the idler.
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scotty38
19-02-2020, 11:29
Very, very nice, is that the ex-dem arm that Hugo had for sale?
I also have the very same weight from SPH on my Lenco although I went for copper, didn't realise it was your design so thanks!!!
WESTLOWER
19-02-2020, 11:31
Thanks mate, It’s certainly met them visually, and Ray has been first class with his help and advice all the way through. I’m surprised how just how quiet it is as I expected more noise from the idler.
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You shouldn't have notable noise with a well serviced unit.
I certainly wouldn't listen to anyone casting doubt on switching from the Linn Sondek LP12 to a well serviced Idler drive TT, I personally have never looked back. The simple connection you get with your music from a good idler, for me, far far out weighs what the LP12 offers, even a pimped one. I know, I had one and sunk a lot of money into the Linn upgrade path!
I'd go for an external 3rd party PSU for the Garrad.
The LongDog Audio Re-Generator Quartz Locked Speed/Power Supply is a very worth wile investment.
Your Reed is a lovely arm too.. well done!
I recently heard the very top of the tree limited edition version of the Reed 5T tonearm at Unique Audio, both visually and sonically very impressive!
Enjoy!
Very, very nice, is that the ex-dem arm that Hugo had for sale?
I also have the very same weight from SPH on my Lenco although I went for copper, didn't realise it was your design so thanks!!!
Thankyou. No I didn’t get it from Hugo I got it from Chameleon audio. Nikos is a nice chap.
Yes Sien told me he had sold a few more via lenco. I wound him up about using my copyright .ha! No skin off my nose mate hope it works well for you ?
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scotty38
19-02-2020, 11:49
Yes Sien told me he had sold a few more via lenco. I wound him up about using my copyright .ha! No skin off my nose mate hope it works well for you ?
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I told Sien (he asked me) that I cannot hear any difference with it or without it but I will admit to buying it more for aesthetics as I love the look - yeah I know... Mine is due a polish too. I did get stung a week or two back with customs charges though :(
Opti-cal
19-02-2020, 14:23
Now you'll have to change your avatar Karl . . .
Congratulations on a lovely deck and hopefully a result you're after. Love the classic design and chunky controls.
Mad/brave, whatever but it takes guts to start over like that so fair play mate.
I don't doubt it will best the LP12, (in most ways;)) that arm is superb looking although I haven't heard one but they have an excellent rep and a real look of quality.
brian2957
19-02-2020, 14:58
Absolutely gorgeous , I hope it sounds half as good as it looks Karl . Enjoy :)
AJSki2fly
19-02-2020, 15:16
Karl, it looks stunning, will be lovely to see it all set up and finished, very interested to hear what the listening experience is, I am sure it will be great.
WESTLOWER
19-02-2020, 15:24
I don't doubt it will best the LP12, (in most ways;))
With that Reed arm and a cartridge to compliment, it will certainly show the LP 12 with a Nima, a very clean pair of heels indeed...in every way !
graham67
19-02-2020, 21:52
Wow, that looks amazing. Great job 😃
Spectral Morn
19-02-2020, 22:52
The Track Audio feet are excellent.
Made in 1968
19-02-2020, 23:30
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200219/07fcee2b758db5c3e0ef5e12f95ec4b7.jpg
Is that some kind of foam lining?
I told Sien (he asked me) that I cannot hear any difference with it or without it but I will admit to buying it more for aesthetics as I love the look - yeah I know... Mine is due a polish too. I did get stung a week or two back with customs charges though :(
That fair enough mate. I designed mine to help tackle warps rather than the sonics but If it will definitely look the business perched on the new rig.
Its a bugger getting hit with customs but sometimes it still works out cheaper to buy abroad, even with the tax on top . A clamp like this in brass was well upwards of £150, Sien made me one for half of that.
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You shouldn't have notable noise with a well serviced unit.
I certainly wouldn't listen to anyone casting doubt on switching from the Linn Sondek LP12 to a well serviced Idler drive TT, I personally have never looked back. The simple connection you get with your music from a good idler, for me, far far out weighs what the LP12 offers, even a pimped one. I know, I had one and sunk a lot of money into the Linn upgrade path!
I'd go for an external 3rd party PSU for the Garrad.
The LongDog Audio Re-Generator Quartz Locked Speed/Power Supply is a very worth wile investment.
Your Reed is a lovely arm too.. well done!
I recently heard the very top of the tree limited edition version of the Reed 5T tonearm at Unique Audio, both visually and sonically very impressive!
Enjoy!
Yeah that’s probably what I will go for. The mark2 version. They seem to be the ones that everybody recommends. I do like the look of the Hanze hifi HAT power supply as its fully analogue , but its double the price of the LDA and that extra dough would pay for my Audiomods arm , plus it likely won’t be twice as good as the Longdog supply either
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Now you'll have to change your avatar Karl . . .
Congratulations on a lovely deck and hopefully a result you're after. Love the classic design and chunky controls.
Mad/brave, whatever but it takes guts to start over like that so fair play mate.
I don't doubt it will best the LP12, (in most ways;)) that arm is superb looking although I haven't heard one but they have an excellent rep and a real look of quality.
Christ, I will have to set aside a full evening to write a new avatar with all the changes going on over here. Thanks though mate.
Yeah it took a bit of bottle to go in blind but what’s the worse that can happen? I’m not blown away(highly unlikely) , and all this stuff I’ve bought is top gear so it sells itself pretty quickly if I wanted to try something else . I’m pretty confident this one will be around for a few years though . Ive gone all out and tried to make it end game spec
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With that Reed arm and a cartridge to compliment, it will certainly show the LP 12 with a Nima, a very clean pair of heels indeed...in every way !
I’m going to keep my Art 9 on it until it needs replacing as it’s an incredible cart. Well underpriced in my opinion. This way I will be able to tell just how big or subtle the improvements are as Ive had that cart for almost a year now and no it well. When she dies I will move up the ladder . I think the Reed will definitely get more out of its performance
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Absolutely gorgeous , I hope it sounds half as good as it looks Karl . Enjoy :)
Thanks mate
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Karl, it looks stunning, will be lovely to see it all set up and finished, very interested to hear what the listening experience is, I am sure it will be great.
Cheers mate . As soon as it’s up and running I will add my thoughts. I have a feeling it will be pretty special
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Wow, that looks amazing. Great job [emoji2]
Cheers
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The Track Audio feet are excellent.
I can tell that they will be top , top quality. They weigh a bloody ton and a great design and they look bloody lovely too
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Is that some kind of foam lining?
No I don’t think so. from what I can gather the plinth is made from a combination of layers of man made slate, Baltic birch and a special bentonite and polyester resin for optimal damping. The internal is then coated in an acrylic which gives it that textured look and the outer veneered.
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Ali Tait
20-02-2020, 11:25
Another vote for the LDA supply, it's a great bit of kit.
The TT looks great, and with that arm should sounds fabulous. I have a NOS 401 in storage that I must sort out sometime- have a Sumiko The Arm to put on it, should be a decent sounding combo.
Idlewithnodrive
20-02-2020, 21:23
That looks fabulous and will undoubtedly trounce your LP12.
I went from an LP12 to a modded Lenco, then to a 401, then to an SP-10 MkII, then finally (?) to a G99, which is where I'm sticking. The idlers came out top every time :) I haven't owned a 301 but the 401's bass and emotional connection to the music were jaw dropping, I'm sure you'll be well pleased with it.
Great work !
farflungstar
21-02-2020, 13:28
The Reed is superb - enjoy.
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DiveDeepDog
21-02-2020, 13:51
No worries comparing with a Linn, I took my old greaser to Kegworth last year. Had an Accurate level deck next to it and they were toe to toe. Just a decision which flavour you preferred :lol:
Calling it a Garrard is a bit of disservice to Ray, shouldn't it be CTC Classic 301? Only bit thats Garrard is the 401 motor :eek:
Another vote for the LDA supply, it's a great bit of kit.
The TT looks great, and with that arm should sounds fabulous. I have a NOS 401 in storage that I must sort out sometime- have a Sumiko The Arm to put on it, should be a decent sounding combo.
Oh great. I doubt you would have to do much to get her going. A regrease of linkages and fresh bearing oil/grease and a good dust and you’ll be off I reckon. Or worst case send it to ray for a peace of mind service and it will be good for another 50 years.
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That looks fabulous and will undoubtedly trounce your LP12.
I went from an LP12 to a modded Lenco, then to a 401, then to an SP-10 MkII, then finally (?) to a G99, which is where I'm sticking. The idlers came out top every time :) I haven't owned a 301 but the 401's bass and emotional connection to the music were jaw dropping, I'm sure you'll be well pleased with it.
Great work !
Yes that’s what seems to be the general consensus with regards to the sound as well as great dynamics which I also like.
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The Reed is superb - enjoy.
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Cheers, I can tell it in a completely different league to anything I’ve had before just from looking at it and feeling it in my hands. Beautiful engineering and really well thought out and looks a doddle to set up and use
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No worries comparing with a Linn, I took my old greaser to Kegworth last year. Had an Accurate level deck next to it and they were toe to toe. Just a decision which flavour you preferred :lol:
Calling it a Garrard is a bit of disservice to Ray, shouldn't it be CTC Classic 301? Only bit thats Garrard is the 401 motor :eek:
Yeah my linn was fairly high spec,a bit better than accurate to my ears , so I’m guessing the new arm and plinth will be the main improvement here that take the 301 to the next level.
Yeah your probably right about naming it a CTC 301 but technically Ray uses some parts that aren’t his aswell and builds on Garrards design so I’m not going to get bogged down with the politics. Its only a turntable at the end of the day [emoji23]
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farflungstar
23-02-2020, 10:42
Treat it well and it will reward you way beyond your expectations. I loved mine.
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So I’ve just been dealt the blow that my Woodsong plinth will not be ready until mid-end April now. The initial date I was given upon ordering it last year was the middle to end of January. Ive been messaging every few weeks since November to see how the progress is going and every time the date keeps getting pushed back. Is it just my experience or is this a common theme with these artisanal TT companies? Its really frustrating because I sold my linn end of December thinking I would only have to wait a few weeks without a spinner but now it’s going to be three months over the initial estimated completion date and I’ve already given my deposit and parts have been started so I can’t get one elsewhere as I will likely lose my money.
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farflungstar
23-02-2020, 23:30
So I’ve just been dealt the blow that my Woodsong plinth will not be ready until mid-end April now. The initial date I was given upon ordering it last year was the middle to end of January. Ive been messaging every few weeks since November to see how the progress is going and every time the date keeps getting pushed back. Is it just my experience or is this a common theme with these artisanal TT companies? Its really frustrating because I sold my linn end of December thinking I would only have to wait a few weeks without a spinner but now it’s going to be three months over the initial estimated completion date and I’ve already given my deposit and parts have been started so I can’t get one elsewhere as I will likely lose my money.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI had the same problem. Took 200 of my cash as deposit and kept pushing back the date again and again until I just gave up and kissed the money goodbye. I'm not saying that's your situation but you need to be on them constantly. There's no excuse really - if they're that inundated with work employ someone.
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Made in 1968
23-02-2020, 23:33
I would personally ger very shirty with them & demand a refund based on the Date you were promised.
farflungstar
23-02-2020, 23:40
I would personally ger very shirty with them & demand a refund based on the Date you were promised.Not an easy thing - bigman wants his plinth and in the shortest time, starting over again won't be a pleasant thought.
Bigman, don't you have a plinth you can make do with in the interim?
I've still got my 30kg sp10 plinth stashed just in case I ever go down that lovely rabbit hole again.
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Made in 1968
23-02-2020, 23:43
I understand that but April is a long way away, Someone else could make one before that im sure.
Yeah it’s difficult to navigate as I still want that particular style plinth and his work is top drawer , my deposit I have paid is a lot more than 200 aswell. Its All through PayPal so I have cover . I don’t suspect any foul play, he’s obviously just incredibly busy. As you say he should probably get some help in instead of upsetting paying customers that are putting a LOT of money into these new plinths.
I was told on November 1st that he had around a dozen to get through and mine would be finished end of January. Maybe he’s taken on some more lucrative work and pushed mine aside for the time being? Now he’s having his holiday at end of March and mine won’t be done before that.
I don’t want to annoy him as he was already not happy about making this style plinth as it’s ‘very difficult to make’ and its now indefinitely on hold, but why advertise it on the new website so if you don’t want to make it anymore?
I’m going to have to think of a firm but fair way of approaching it in an email . He already has the plinth peices cut and veneer sliced so got me by the balls really.
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brian2957
24-02-2020, 09:29
Sounds like it will be worth waiting for Karl . Can't tell you how many times I've rushed things through and regretted it later . It's not that far away :)
WESTLOWER
24-02-2020, 10:14
Artisan bespoke products made by small companies often give completion dates that need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
Many Hifi folk i know have waited months passed quoted delivery dates for orders on all sorts of products.
Patience is called for, frustrating but as said worth the wait.
At least he is communicating, thats when it gets really annoying
I think it's a given the Independent Hifi suppliers do things at their own speed.... ;)
Yeah I know it will be worth the wait, it’s an end game product . Its just annoying that I’ve sold my other bits to coincide with his initial timeline so I’ve been without a TT for a while now which is SUPER FRUSTRATING .
Ive emailed him to try and be a bit more concrete and give a bit more clarity so that it’s not getting pushed back every two/three weeks. He is really responsive and very nice and informative so I have no worries. More me getting impatient as I have no TT.
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Spectral Morn
24-02-2020, 12:07
There are tales of woe all over this forum, in many areas its been because sole supplier/artisan audio people vanished with peoples money and those customers never seeing the item. Drink problems, depression, illness, sudden death the causes, to name a few. In the main its people who have no clue how to run a business or manage it properly.
scotty38
24-02-2020, 12:33
I have ordered a Radford STA-25. I was informed of the timescale involved and also that I pay nothing until it's delivered. All the excitement of looking forward to something and none of the anguish... Perfect!
WESTLOWER
24-02-2020, 12:52
There are tales of woe all over this forum, in many areas its been because sole supplier/artisan audio people vanished with peoples money and those customers never seeing the item. Drink problems, depression, illness, sudden death the causes, to name a few. In the main its people who have no clue how to run a business or manage it properly.
not the case here though!
just a delay, with good communication....
Spectral Morn
24-02-2020, 12:55
not the case here though!
just a delay, with good communication....
I would lean to this.... 'In the main its people who have no clue how to run a business or manage it properly.' There are ways to make sure no one is facing those sorts of delays and that is to manage the orders more effectively.
farflungstar
24-02-2020, 13:06
I would lean to this.... 'In the main its people who have no clue how to run a business or manage it properly.' There are ways to make sure no one is facing those sorts of delays and that is to manage the orders more effectively. One respondent above lost money so I am more inclined to be less magnanimous, regarding this company. Being out £200 and having no items is simply not on.
I had considered this company, but not now.Wait a minute.. I have no idea which company Big Bird is using and am not saying its the same one. That happened to me 2 years ago and to be fair wouldn't stop me from employing someone to do the work again if needed. There are many reasons why things can go tits up, 99% non criminal. I made the choice not to string things out any longer as it was a vanity project. Again, please don't confuse my experience with the OP's - as far as I'm aware there is no connection.
Big Bird needed a place to vent, understandably.
Adey
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Spectral Morn
24-02-2020, 15:27
Wait a minute.. I have no idea which company Big Bird is using and am not saying its the same one. That happened to me 2 years ago and to be fair wouldn't stop me from employing someone to do the work again if needed. There are many reasons why things can go tits up, 99% non criminal. I made the choice not to string things out any longer as it was a vanity project. Again, please don't confuse my experience with the OP's - as far as I'm aware there is no connection.
Big Bird needed a place to vent, understandably.
Adey
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As you wrote it, it seemed to point to woodsong?
farflungstar
24-02-2020, 15:32
As you wrote it, it seemed to point to woodsong?Yes, reading it back I didn't make it explicitly clear and should have. Apologies. I can categorically say it wasn't the company in question.
Adey
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Spectral Morn
24-02-2020, 16:40
Yes, reading it back I didn't make it explicitly clear and should have. Apologies. I can categorically say it wasn't the company in question.
Adey
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I have edited my previous comment to take this new info into account.
Ive spoken to chris who has apologised and says he’s over run with work. He’s offered me a full refund but who else would I get to build me a plinth of that quality in the next 2 months? There won’t be many
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WESTLOWER
24-02-2020, 20:24
Ive spoken to chris who has apologised and says he’s over run with work. He’s offered me a full refund but who else would I get to build me a plinth of that quality in the next 2 months? There won’t be many
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If your adamant of changing.
Bob C or Russ Collinson
But within 8 weeks ... hmmm
Mike Adams
24-02-2020, 21:00
I think that the type of plinth you are after takes time and skill.
Those with the skills to make these are in demand and have waiting lists for the work.
I think it is one of those instances where you are just going to have to be patient...
The only other option I can see would be to borrow or buy something as a stop gap.
Thanks I have messaged bob but no reply yet and Russ built my last one but I couldn’t get hold of him around the time I ordered the Plinth so I went with Woodsong.
As you say they are both probably very busy so I doubt they could make one before the Woodsong completion anyway.
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I think that the type of plinth you are after takes time and skill.
Those with the skills to make these are in demand and have waiting lists for the work.
I think it is one of those instances where you are just going to have to be patient...
The only other option I can see would be to borrow or buy something as a stop gap.
Yeah I appreciate that , but I’ve been on the waiting list for months now . I wouldn’t have minded if he’d said 6 months from the get go as I could have held on to my LP12 longer but now I’m stuck without a TT as I was told January as a finish date.
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Made in 1968
24-02-2020, 23:30
The rear section of those plinths kinda worries me for some reason!
The rear section of those plinths kinda worries me for some reason!
Which part? The articulating armboards?
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Made in 1968
24-02-2020, 23:40
Those sharp edges look very accident chip prone
Those sharp edges look very accident chip prone
Well I don’t plan on dropping anything on it so the thick cut veneer should be just fine sitting on a shelf out the way of any traffic
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Ok so I’m in talks with Russ now so hopefully he will be my knight in shining armour[emoji1696]
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Made in 1968
25-02-2020, 21:46
That is good cos i have a distinct feeling your mighty pissed off
That is good cos i have a distinct feeling your mighty pissed off
I was to begin with as people shouldn’t be giving false promises when your paying them a few thousand dollars to make something for you. Ive got over it now. Pointless letting it ruin a nice little project. He’s lost a customer now and potentially a few more aswell as I have several thousand people who follow my TT page on my Instagram (for some reason[emoji23])where I update my progress . Oh well onwards and upwards as they say.
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WESTLOWER
25-02-2020, 23:59
I was to begin with as people shouldn’t be giving false promises when your paying them a few thousand dollars to make something for you. Ive got over it now. Pointless letting it ruin a nice little project. He’s lost a customer now and potentially a few more aswell as I have several thousand people who follow my TT page on my Instagram (for some reason[emoji23])where I update my progress . Oh well onwards and upwards as they say.
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So to understand... you’ve pulled out of Chris at Woodsong and are now on board with Russ (layers of beauty)?
So to understand... you’ve pulled out of Chris at Woodsong and are now on board with Russ (layers of beauty)?
Yes , chris offered me a refund as he can’t even guarantee April/May time so that is what I have asked for.
Ive now exchanged a few emails with Russ and we just need to confirm a few details and he will start within a few days and be done in a matter of weeks.
He made my last plinth which was great so I know his quality
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dreamer69
26-02-2020, 06:21
What’s your Instagram name?
What’s your Instagram name?
Hi it’s my_revolvers
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WESTLOWER
26-02-2020, 09:43
Interesting to see how this all pans out.
I've heard several 301's in various plinths and they all sound very very different.
It would seem the plinth construction and material has a very large impact on the overall presentation of the 301.
That maybe an obvious conclusion, but it really is very apparent when hearing the differences. A hard choice to place an order on a plinth effectively blind, as they all have their 'sound'. I heard a Bob C plinth and it was night and day with a couple of other options that were also side by side comparisons. It was a valuable lesson for me personally not to get too enticed with looks and finishes and to understand how the plinths are constructed.
I know Bob C incorporates an isolated arm pod within the structure of the plinth. This is fundamental in his 'sound'. He also totally decouples the Motor unit, also fundamental.
Matt at Audio Grail uses Bob C for all his Garrad 301's for this very reason..
You may want to ask Russ about what he did for Tom formerly of this parish (Montesquieu)
Tom went to Russ with a plinth design (for his Thorens 124 Mk2, which is widely, wrongly, perceived as not plinth Fussy) based around a core material of similar to Panzerholst. This was after Tom having had several of Russ Collinson's regular plinth designs over the years. Tom's gamble paid off as it sounds incredible.
IMHO, If I were in your shoes now, I'd explore the base Core material options prior to committing to the next plinth...and also construction techniques.
You are spending a fair bit on this project and IMHO the plinth construction is the most critical element (although it all has an impact of course!)
I wouldn't rush into it for sake of just getting the TT in your system and it looking nice.
Maybe a cheapo stop gap TT is in order, to keep the music spinning whilst you get the optimal 301 plinth possible for your budget..
In the long run it will be worth while..
Just my 2p worth
Interesting to see how this all pans out.
I've heard several 301's in various plinths and they all sound very very different.
It would seem the plinth construction and material has a very large impact on the overall presentation of the 301.
That maybe an obvious conclusion, but it really is very apparent when haring the differences. A hard choice to place an order on a plinth effectively blind, as they all have their 'sound'. I heard a Bob C plinth and it was night and day with a couple of other options that were also side by side comparisons. It was a valuable lesson for me personally not to get too enticed with looks and finishes and to understand how the plinths are constructed.
I know Bob C incorporates an isolated arm pod within the structure of the plinth. This is fundamental in his 'sound'. He also totally decouples the Motor unit, also fundamental.
Matt at Audio Grail uses Bob C for all his Garrad 301's for this very reason..
You may want to ask Russ about what he did for Tom formerly of this parish (Montesquieu)
Tom went to Russ with a plinth design (for his Thorens 124 Mk2, which is widely, wrongly, perceived as not plinth Fussy) based around a core material of similar to Panzerholst. This was after Tom having had several of Russ Collinson's regular plinth designs over the years. Tom's gamble paid off as it sounds incredible.
IMHO, If I were in your shoes now, I'd explore the base Core material options prior to committing to the next plinth...and also construction techniques.
I
n the long run it will be worth while.. I wouldn't rush into it for sake of just getting the TT in your system.
Maybe a cheapo stop gap TT is in order, to keep the music spinning whilst you get the optimal 301 plinth possible for your budget..
Just my 2p worth
Hi mate yes your quite right which is why I liked the idea of the Woodsong. Its has a man made slate base then pockets inside the plinths ply core which have a polyester and bentonite resin for optimal damping in critical areas. Also passive isolation on the armboards too. Anyway that one has gone now so time to move on.
I have messaged bob on his Facebook page , he has seen it but not replied for two days so I’m guessing he’s either not interested or too busy and possibly hes little out of my reach financially anyway. Ive heard his plinths are around £3k ?? He may reply, let’s see.
As for Russ , he thinks he can make something similar looks wise to the Woodsong with a nice veneer . I have asked if the core can be alternating layers (CLD) of Panzerholz and ply , and make the armboards Panzerholz also. Its no secret of its great abilities in audio . It will be heavy and expensive but possible. He did mention he built a solid one so I’m guessing that is Toms one?
To be honest if looks is the thing that people go on then it would be a Bob C all day long for me. Just the shape with those highly figured woods look absolutely timeless and classy. Not to mention the design principals behind it. Ive no doubt it’s a cut above. But likely a long wait and too pricey for me.
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WESTLOWER
26-02-2020, 10:24
Hi mate yes your quite right which is why I liked the idea of the Woodsong. Its has a man made slate base then pockets inside the plinths ply core which have a polyester and bentonite resin for optimal damping in critical areas. Also passive isolation on the armboards too. Anyway that one has gone now so time to move on.
I have messaged bob on his Facebook page , he has seen it but not replied for two days so I’m guessing he’s either not interested or too busy and possibly hes little out of my reach financially anyway. Ive heard his plinths are around £3k ?? He may reply, let’s see.
As for Russ , he thinks he can make something similar looks wise to the Woodsong with a nice veneer . I have asked if the core can be alternating layers (CLD) of Panzerholz and ply , and make the armboards Panzerholz also. Its no secret of its great abilities in audio . It will be heavy and expensive but possible. He did mention he built a solid one so I’m guessing that is Toms one?
To be honest if looks is the thing that people go on then it would be a Bob C all day long for me. Just the shape with those highly figured woods look absolutely timeless and classy. Not to mention the design principals behind it. Ive no doubt it’s a cut above. But likely a long wait and too pricey for me.
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I'm sure Russ can execute something very nice indeed. Yes the solid one was for Tom.
As for Bob C, yes his plinths are costly but the work and the process too get there has been extensive obviously.
He is contactable, maybe try via Matt at Audio Grail or similar, I know Mik at Unique Audio also supplies Bob C plinths
there are also examples already built and good to go.
Anyway you sound like you have done enough research in the approach to get what you can for your wallet.
After hearing Tom's solid Layers of Beauty jobbie and the Bob C's efforts, i wouldn't go for the basic approach if i were going this road again. good Luck
Keep us posted
cheers
I'm sure Russ can execute something very nice indeed. Yes the solid one was for Tom.
As for Bob C, yes his plinths are costly but the work and the process too get there has been extensive obviously.
He is contactable, maybe try via Matt at Audio Grail or similar, I know Mik at Unique Audio also supplies Bob C plinths
there are also examples already built and good to go.
Anyway you sound like you have done enough research in the approach to get what you can for your wallet.
After hearing Tom's solid Layers of Beauty jobbie and the Bob C's efforts, i wouldn't go for the basic approach if i were going this road again. good Luck
Keep us posted
cheers
Will do and thanks for the input. Really appreciate it.
I was determined not to go basic with this as it will likely see me right for many years to come so I have been patient and researched thing’s thoroughly . I will check out unique audio and see what they have.
Cheers
Karl
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Ok the plinth saga is now sorted . Ive got Russ to sort me one . He can make me one almost identical (apart from the veneer) and use a panzerholz core for optimal damping. Also some passive isolation on the armboards . He can get going straight away as the deposit is sorted. Estimated 6-8 weeks completion time but possibly before. If things go smoothly. At least I’m not guessing now.
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Made in 1968
26-02-2020, 22:27
Russ is good, Hes about 10 mins away from me..
Russ is good, Hes about 10 mins away from me..
Yeah he did my LP12 plinth was was amazing [emoji108]
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WESTLOWER
27-02-2020, 08:32
Ok the plinth saga is now sorted . Ive got Russ to sort me one . He can make me one almost identical (apart from the veneer) and use a panzerholz core for optimal damping. Also some passive isolation on the armboards . He can get going straight away as the deposit is sorted. Estimated 6-8 weeks completion time but possibly before. If things go smoothly. At least I’m not guessing now.
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Can I ask how he is to isolate the arm boards?
Will he be incorporating an isolated arm pod into the plinth?
And is he given any thoughts on motor isolation?
Can I ask how he is to isolate the arm boards?
Will he be incorporating an isolated arm pod into the plinth?
And is he given any thoughts on motor isolation?
Hi mate , it’s nothing fancy just rubber discs between the articulating armboards and the plinth but ‘Woodsong’ said he’s had positive results doing the same so I asked Russ to incorporate it and give it a try. Nothing to lose. If its no good then I just unscrew and remove them.
No we haven’t spoken about motor isolation as I’ve kinda reached my budget with what we already have planned.
This is a picture of how Woodsong does it with discs between the silver top Bolt and armboard ,also under the armboard before the plinth
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200227/bc50e2ca27e542c81042b545ae80a6af.jpg
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200227/017fec933ec8b130ab240d7fdf0cb8f7.jpg
This is an idea of what we will likely use to make the armboard isolation work with the armboard sandwiched between against the rubbers
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Made in 1968
27-02-2020, 20:05
You just have to make sure the threaded stud is not in contact as i only see the two flat surfaces have isolation.
You just have to make sure the threaded stud is not in contact as i only see the two flat surfaces have isolation.
Yes with a little rubber sleeve over the thread
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Ok guys, so I have made my decision on a power supply. After some discussion with Jaap at Hanze I took the plunge on a Hanze Hifi HAT CPS-2 regenerator. Jaap is very knowledgeable when it comes to all things idler so I put my faith in them for a fully frequency and voltage adjustable power supply in order to tweak the best from the TT. Jaap has recommended I remove the brake magnet fully out of the way or even better the whole eddy disc to minimise vibrations and get the motor running silently.
It was a touch more expensive than the LDA ,Nigels,CTC etc so I asked why. Here’s what he said
“I have seen and measured some of them we only use the best expensive parts ,no cheap digital oscillator or XR2206 ic all converting a square signal to sinus.
It Can drive about 90 VA motor continuous without getting warm .
Our version is clean and stable but I know there is a price difference you must decide for yourself.
Picture is from the variable speed unit, standard version without it. With our powersupply you can lower the output voltage on the front panel with the knob torque ,
De oscillator is analog most important for a very clean and stable output signal with very low distorsion .
The driver stage is with a 180 watt class d amp who drives the transformer better then a discrete poweramp with lower distorsion “.
Personally I much prefer the looks of this one aswell too. Really love that vintage analogue vibe. And he also assured me that on Garrard and lenco the improvement is quite dramatic so I look forward to adding this to the new rig.
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Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2020, 19:04
Nice to see a proper 301 project, cost no object, excellent!
Nice to see a proper 301 project, cost no object, excellent!
Thanks Andrew, I wish the cost was no object haha! It’s taken me 7-8 months to put this together when I can afford it, but I’m being patient and making it the best I can so it will be end game quality. Ive tried to cover all bases . How’s your project coming along?
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Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2020, 20:10
Thanks Andrew, I wish the cost was no object haha! It’s taken me 7-8 months to put this together when I can afford it, but I’m being patient and making it the best I can so it will be end game quality. Ive tried to cover all bases . How’s your project coming along?
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You've done the right thing in taking your time. I think you'll appreciate your hard work and you can sit back knowing that you'll probably not need to do anything to your 301 EVER again!!!! Karl, which project are your asking about?
You've done the right thing in taking your time. I think you'll appreciate your hard work and you can sit back knowing that you'll probably not need to do anything to your 301 EVER again!!!! Karl, which project are your asking about?
That’s the plan matey! I think your was the 401/sme combo. You were waiting on a lead last time I checked in?
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So with the plinth only a couple of weeks away now I thought I’d better put together a new rack that can fit all of my equipment on as my current Atacama one is a shelf short for my box count so the preamp is stacked on top of the CD player ,which is not ideal.
Whilst contemplating how to go about it all I was lucky enough to walk into a charity shop and find a hardwood table , built in the good old days so rock solid and sturdy. This meant that I didn’t have to build my own . Result! All I have done is fill and sand it, paint it white, add some support struts in the middle of the shelves to take the weight of the panzer plinth without bowing [emoji1696], and I made individual isolation platforms for each piece . I’m just waiting on the isolation spikes to arrive for the bottom of the rack and all of the little platforms . I have also made a larger 500x400 hardwood platform for the plinth to sit on in the middle.
Not too bad so far and it gives an idea of how it will look once I’ve installed all of the spikes. Grand total of $180 Australian /about £90 for everything and a Saturday of my isolation time which kept me well entertained . Ive saved myself a small fortune as something like this would be eye-wateringly expensive from a retail store.
Cheers
Karl
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Looks really good that Karl. Looking forward to seeing it all setup.
Looks really good that Karl. Looking forward to seeing it all setup.
Thanks buddy. So am I. Feels like a lifetime ago since I started this project.
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Frazeur1
31-03-2020, 12:23
Looking good, Karl. Will be nice to see all of your gear sitting on it! Well done! Hope all is well with you down under!
Looking good, Karl. Will be nice to see all of your gear sitting on it! Well done! Hope all is well with you down under!
Thanks mate all good here. Like everyone, trying to make the best of a bad situation. Hope your well too?
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Hmmm which finish to go for? I’m thinking 3 at the moment it’s nice and deep and will look classy under the piano laquer
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Hi Karl,
A few twists and turns to your 301 project I see. I used to run a 301 with my Croft amps many years back in the early 1980s before they became popular but you would have laughed at my set up. Glenn recommended the 301 with a Tom Fletcher tonearm and Decca blue I think was the set up. I did not have a plinth at all but suspended the 301 in a metal wall mount with the motor dangling above my head as I had it in my bedroom at the time and it was quite small.
Your project is going to result in something far nicer. Looking forward to your final result and let us know how it all sounds. I should imagine it will be a fair bit different to the LP12.:)
Hi Karl,
A few twists and turns to your 301 project I see. I used to run a 301 with my Croft amps many years back in the early 1980s before they became popular but you would have laughed at my set up. Glenn recommended the 301 with a Tom Fletcher tonearm and Decca blue I think was the set up. I did not have a plinth at all but suspended the 301 in a metal wall mount with the motor dangling above my head as I had it in my bedroom at the time and it was quite small.
Your project is going to result in something far nicer. Looking forward to your final result and let us know how it all sounds. I should imagine it will be a fair bit different to the LP12.:)
Hi Jim,
Yeah a few ups and downs unfortunately mate but we’re almost there now. the plinth is going in for the piano laquer on Monday so not too long to wait now until I can get it over the line. I’m hoping two weeks.
Ive tried to make this one an end game TT to try and curb my constant need for more. I sometimes think it would be cheaper being a drug addict than a hifi nerd ha.
Not sure if you read the whole blog but this one is a full bells n whistles jobby. Only original part left on the TT is the Garrard motor. Ray has designed and improved upon most of the other bits including the solid chassis, bearing, platter,idler etc.
The plinth has panzerholz on the top ,middle and bottom layer, then mahogany and ply on the alternating ones for acoustic isolation and we’ve come up with a plan to use stainless glass fasteners and rubber discs to fully isolate the articulating panzerholz armboards. Then top quality track audio feet and a fully analogue power supply for the lowest distortion to finish the job . This should all be a lovely base for the Reed arm which needs no introduction.
If I had the choice of sharing my bedroom with my missus or your lovely little Garrard setup , I know which one I would choose mate , haha. I bet that was a really sweet sounding setup?
Cheers
Karl
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Back when I had a 301 the plinth was really almost an after thought, there was really not much consideration for a quality, isolated plinth then as retro turntables had gone out of fashion and out of the window with the advent of CD!
Your reworked 301 looks magnificent and is a real beauty Karl. That should be an end game turntable indeed and I am sure when its all finished with the Reed tonearm installed you are going to have a wonderful system.
Cheers
Jim
RobbieGong
15-04-2020, 21:26
Back when I had a 301 the plinth was really almost an after thought, there was really not much consideration for a quality, isolated plinth then as retro turntables had gone out of fashion and out of the window with the advent of CD!
Your reworked 301 looks magnificent and is a real beauty Karl. That should be an end game turntable indeed and I am sure when its all finished with the Reed tonearm installed you are going to have a wonderful system.
Cheers
Jim
+1 Beautiful ! :)
+1 Beautiful ! :)
Cheers mate. Wait until you see the plinth. It’s a serious work of art . The figuring in the kewasinga veneer is holographic so the grains pop out as you move around the plinth ... really mad to see. Just waiting on the piano laquer to dry before final polish then I can get some pics up
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So guys , the plinth is finally ready , just waiting for the Furutech plug to arrive then it can be shipped over. Fingers crossed I can show you the finished result next weekend. As you can see Russ has done an amazing job . The camera/light doesn’t do the grain it’s full justice. It really is 3dimensional and holographic in a video he sent me when it wasn’t quite finished . When it arrives I will give you a full 360 video of it so you can see the way the figuring dances in the light.
It’s has three layers of panzerholz, top middle and bottom . The inbetween layers are mahogany and ply to keep cost and weight down and supposedly best using different material for constrain layering and acoustic isolation. It’s wrapped in a highly figured kewasinga waterfall bubinga veneer and stained ruby red. Everything bonded with epoxy. Then it’s all covered by in high gloss finish and polished like glass.
The armboards are also panzerholz with an ebony veneer. I will likely get some solid metal ones made up in the future (when I’m not so skint) . The armboards have their own isolation in the form of stainless fasteners with rubber along the bolt threads , rubber discs between the plinth and armboard , and between the armboard and fastener to fully isolate. these fix into threaded inserts in the plinth.
Finally feels amazing to get it over the line after getting effed about. Hope you like it as much as I do?
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Cheers
Karl
Man that is stunning. Beautifully done:youtheman:
RobbieGong
23-04-2020, 10:17
Wow !! Beautiful and exotic finish Karl - looks luxury :thumbsup:
Thanks guys really happy with the outcome and it’s nice to have something a little unique too
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So the power supply has now arrived and this thing is built like a bloody tank. It’s huge ! Almost the size of a record , about 6 inches high and weighs about 15kg. It absolutely reeks of quality. Solid!! Handmade in the Netherlands by idler drive legend Jaap Pees of #hanzehifi . As mentioned before It’s 100% analogue for the absolute lowest noise and distortion possible. James at Whest Audio pointed me in this direction instead of a digital supply. Then I contacted Jaap at Hanze Hifi in Netherlands and he also suggested this approach ,so I took the plunge. He only uses top parts to build these , no cheap digital oscillator or chip, and a class D amplifier to drive it. it can run a 90vac motor without getting warm. It’s a monster . I can Lower the input voltage and speed up and down in order to get the Garrard motor to run more smoothly and silently .its suggested to set the voltage around 10% lower than the mains to get good results but results can be obtained down to 200v? Experimenting is encouraged. I also don’t need to use the eddy brake and magnet either which is known to put noise and vibrations up the motor spindle ,through the idler wheel and into the cartridge ,according to Jaap if you remove the eddy brake and use this supply then difference in sound quality from your TT is amazing. I will likely leave the eddy in but turn the speedo to full + to move the brake magnet to its furthest point away from the wheel ,then set speed with the supply and strobe . Can’t wait for the plinth to arrive on Tuesday to get this project up and running after a long few months
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Well she’s almost done now. Only slight miscalculation was on the fasteners for the armboard isolation. They sit slightly too high for the arm lift to clear it. No biggy I will just go and buy some lower bolt/washers tomorrow and then I can get the Feickert out and set it all up. Really happy with the outcome. It’s absolutely stunning. Just needs to get saving for that second arm now
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Audio Al
08-05-2020, 15:50
:stalks::eek::stalks::eek:
Blimey that IS nice :D
Audio Al
08-05-2020, 15:51
woops double post for some reason :scratch:
So good he said it twice;)
Beautiful deck sir:)
Frazeur1
08-05-2020, 15:57
Who needs arms? That thing just looks stunning sitting there doing nothing! Really lovely, congrats and enjoy! :)
Thanks gents and I’m really happy with the end product. Definitely worth all the headaches . Can’t wait to get her up and running today
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Everyone has duplicated my thoughts, stunning.
scotty38
09-05-2020, 07:40
Everyone has duplicated my thoughts, stunning.
Nobody has duplicated mine as I think it's spiffing :stalks:
Haha cheers boys. It’s all set up and on the go now. Mind is well and truly blown
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Opti-cal
19-05-2020, 16:10
Must have gotten some listening under your 'idler' now Karl . . .
How is she, 'opening up' at all?
Must have gotten some listening under your 'idler' now Karl . . .
How is she, 'opening up' at all?
Hi mate so after having a week with the new TT all I can say is this thing is a revelation, it’s in a completely different stratosphere to my LP12 in every area . I’d say I’ve had a 25% increase in performance and this is not an exaggeration.
The linn which was around mid spec Akurate level so it was no slouch . Many of you know how many mods I put onto it to bring its performance up , but this new TT actually makes its sound lean in comparison , almost light and thin of that makes sense.
It’s honestly like my woofers have grown 3 inches or Ive added a sub. The bass is thunderingly deep, but snappy and tight . It’s just does the bottom end so well. The dynamics are crazy , the detail is deeper , the soundstage is bigger ,it’s a more powerful sound and it does it all with so much finesse. It really is like one of those turntables you listen to at hifi shows. It just sounds so sure of itself and Massive!
I can only compare it to the jump in performance I had going from the RP6 to the LP12 and I’m much preferring what this is offering!
It’s exactly what I had hoped for and probably expected to be fair as the parts I’ve used for this build have been of the absolute best quality I could find , no corners cut, cost no object . It’s a great feeling knowing it’s paid off.
The Reed arm is the best arm I have encountered. It’s so well thought out, a doddle to use and setup, you just can’t go wrong with it. Proper engineering! It may be a bit resonant for some but I’m a real lover of wood in my Hifi and in this setup it just works and Id recommend it in a heartbeat . I think this is probably the main contributor to the jump in performance .
The power supply also makes a big difference. The noise from the motor drops dramatically when its in use and the speed is rock solid. I’ve found that dropping down to around 207 volts is my preffered mains voltage on this motor. I felt going down to 200 just killed it ever so slightly . I had someone recently that tried to tell me that the power supply was not a good idea on a Garrard as it saps it of its drive , but all I can say is they was very , very wrong indeed. It really is audible when the music comes on and also when it’s off aswell as the motor is now almost silent . when you disengage the eddy brake and magnet like I’ve done and set speed on the supply unit , the vibration and noise really does drop enough to hear it with your ear to the plinth . A must have for any Garrard owner. It’s a shoot on site upgrade as far as I’m concerned.
So, Where the hell do I go from here? I really feel I’ve got an end game product now that I could live with for years , so my attention will now be turned to the rest of the system to bring it up to this level, and from the video clips I’ve been sent of my new phonostage build , that will be the first piece of the puzzle that hits the big league [emoji108][emoji108][emoji108] it’s all coming together nicely and I’m still trying to drag my jaw off the floor.
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Opti-cal
20-05-2020, 14:40
Hi mate so after having a week with the new TT all I can say is this thing is a revelation, it’s in a completely different stratosphere to my LP12 in every area . I’d say I’ve had a 25% increase in performance and this is not an exaggeration.
The linn which was around mid spec Akurate level so it was no slouch . Many of you know how many mods I put onto it to bring its performance up , but this new TT actually makes its sound lean in comparison , almost light and thin of that makes sense.
It’s honestly like my woofers have grown 3 inches or Ive added a sub. The bass is thunderingly deep, but snappy and tight . It’s just does the bottom end so well. The dynamics are crazy , the detail is deeper , the soundstage is bigger ,it’s a more powerful sound and it does it all with so much finesse. It really is like one of those turntables you listen to at hifi shows. It just sounds so sure of itself and Massive!
I can only compare it to the jump in performance I had going from the RP6 to the LP12 and I’m much preferring what this is offering!
It’s exactly what I had hoped for and probably expected to be fair as the parts I’ve used for this build have been of the absolute best quality I could find , no corners cut, cost no object . It’s a great feeling knowing it’s paid off.
The Reed arm is the best arm I have encountered. It’s so well thought out, a doddle to use and setup, you just can’t go wrong with it. Proper engineering! It may be a bit resonant for some but I’m a real lover of wood in my Hifi and in this setup it just works and Id recommend it in a heartbeat . I think this is probably the main contributor to the jump in performance .
The power supply also makes a big difference. The noise from the motor drops dramatically when its in use and the speed is rock solid. I’ve found that dropping down to around 207 volts is my preffered mains voltage on this motor. I felt going down to 200 just killed it ever so slightly . I had someone recently that tried to tell me that the power supply was not a good idea on a Garrard as it saps it of its drive , but all I can say is they was very , very wrong indeed. It really is audible when the music comes on and also when it’s off aswell as the motor is now almost silent . when you disengage the eddy brake and magnet like I’ve done and set speed on the supply unit , the vibration and noise really does drop enough to hear it with your ear to the plinth . A must have for any Garrard owner. It’s a shoot on site upgrade as far as I’m concerned.
So, Where the hell do I go from here? I really feel I’ve got an end game product now that I could live with for years , so my attention will now be turned to the rest of the system to bring it up to this level, and from the video clips I’ve been sent of my new phonostage build , that will be the first piece of the puzzle that hits the big league [emoji108][emoji108][emoji108] it’s all coming together nicely and I’m still trying to drag my jaw off the floor.
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Sounds incredibly satisfying that its all coming together for you Karl. Honestly its awesome to hear so much enthusiasm for and so much pleasure given by a project well thought out and which I know would have required meticulous planning. Power supplies can make or break a component so that's no surprise. It does look an absolute workman too, as a supply should!
Not that your current system won't show off the Garrard's attributes but I think there's 'heaps' more to come for you. Starting with the phono stage by the sounds of it. If you have the means and the patience to get there, why not. I'll be interested to see what turns up . . . .
Just out of interest do you have plans to elevate the rest of the supporting cast to 'endgame' status. Like I say, not that they won't sound great with it but you're now playing a different sport let along being in a different league!
Cheers,
Chris
Wakefield Turntables
20-05-2020, 19:45
Glad your Garrard is hitting the spot. What phonostage are you going for?
Sounds incredibly satisfying that its all coming together for you Karl. Honestly its awesome to hear so much enthusiasm for and so much pleasure given by a project well thought out and which I know would have required meticulous planning. Power supplies can make or break a component so that's no surprise. It does look an absolute workman too, as a supply should!
Not that your current system won't show off the Garrard's attributes but I think there's 'heaps' more to come for you. Starting with the phono stage by the sounds of it. If you have the means and the patience to get there, why not. I'll be interested to see what turns up . . . .
Just out of interest do you have plans to elevate the rest of the supporting cast to 'endgame' status. Like I say, not that they won't sound great with it but you're now playing a different sport let along being in a different league!
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers Chris ,
Yeah I will eventually bring it all up to the level of the TT but money doesn’t grow on trees so it will be a marathon not a sprint.
Ive had some cables made up using UP-OCC, carbon braiding and KLE bullet plugs so these should easily beat my Chord cable. The guy building them said he wouldn’t tie his dog up with chord cables so I am expecting a nice step up here. I’m also still on the lookout for the Tellurium silver cables so they will be next on the list.
Ive spoken to Glenn and he says that my monoblocks are already ‘maxed out’ so there is no room for improvement with them , they are TOP spec and sound phenomenal as is to be fair.
The only thing left to do is send off the preamp for a seperate power supply as I already have the RS line stage in it as an upgrade. He said he can ‘full Monty’ it with better coupling caps ,resistors etc and the sky’s the limit with that, just depends on budget really but it will perform like a 15-20k preamp when that’s done. That will really be the last 1500 quid I have to spend to get this rig to the maximum level I can get it.
Once the art 9 dies i will likely look at a more exotic cartridge but the Reed arm has got so much more out of it that I’m pretty happy as is .
The whole setup is already end game for most to be fair but I’m a greedy bastard and want more haha.
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Haha cheers boys. It’s all set up and on the go now. Mind is well and truly blown
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200509/1ec5a638a42c5783367b199be24a3cbb.jpg
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This is just awesome! Well done on a great result, I hope it was worth the aggro, it certainly looks the business and envy of many! Very classy setup
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Glad your Garrard is hitting the spot. What phonostage are you going for?
Thanks mate I’m really enjoying the new bigger bolder sound . Ive gone for the new MK3 Bigbottle phonostage.
Apparently the new pcb layout (which has made it properly symmetrical) , and perfectly hand matching all of the caps, resistors, JFETs etc has elevated its performance into the big league. He’s also found that adding a small PCB onto the board to take 4 matched JFETs (dual-dual deferential) has lowered the noise floor to the quietest he’s heard. Ive also gone for a two box version using an EI transformer instead of a toroid, which has also lowered the noise further and added more detail and definition.
I bought some of the top spec clarity caps CMR caps and matched NOS ‘68 Telefunken valves which Oli thinks sound spectacular in his listening tests ... so much so he bought himself a pair too.
He’s been sending me videos of each incremental stage of development and it sounds phenomenal, even through a phone!
I’m sure it will comfortably see off my Whest 2.2. The beauty of goin for a DIY stage is that I will get the performance of one that would be double or triple the price retail and when I sell my Whest on I won’t be out of pocket.
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This is just awesome! Well done on a great result, I hope it was worth the aggro, it certainly looks the business and envy of many! Very classy setup
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Cheers man it absolutely was worth it. It’s incredible
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Wakefield Turntables
22-05-2020, 10:08
Karl,
I'm a member over on Audioaddicts so I'm aware of the BB3. Would you consider having a specific MM phonostage only, and using the Whest as a MC specific only phonostage? It's a route I've taken. I've got the full fat 4-Box paradise MC phonostage which I'll never sell. The MM phonostage is, however, a voyage of experimentation. I'm using a heavily modded EAR834P clone which I love. I might go down the BB3 route at some stage to replace the EAR834p clone. Anyway, I'm really really happy for you. I hope you have many years of enjoyment out of your excellent system.
PS I'm looking into the Hanze PSU ;)
Karl,
I'm a member over on Audioaddicts so I'm aware of the BB3. Would you consider having a specific MM phonostage only, and using the Whest as a MC specific only phonostage? It's a route I've taken. I've got the full fat 4-Box paradise MC phonostage which I'll never sell. The MM phonostage is, however, a voyage of experimentation. I'm using a heavily modded EAR834P clone which I love. I might go down the BB3 route at some stage to replace the EAR834p clone. Anyway, I'm really really happy for you. I hope you have many years of enjoyment out of your excellent system.
PS I'm looking into the Hanze PSU ;)
Hi mate yes that was my original plan all along as I wanted to get another arm for my TT and have one MM and the other MC but funds are always the crux of the matter so I’ve said to the missus that I will keep whatever phono I prefer ,for the time being , and move the other one on.
Once I do finally get another arm sorted then I will likely make moves on another phono aswell to save me fannying around with cables every time I fancy a switch, but for the time being it seems silly for me to have two stages and one arm .
All I can say with regards to the Hanze is go fo it. It’s a fabulous piece of kit, built for the long haul and does exactly what it says on the tin.
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theorangemachine
26-07-2020, 07:37
Having read through the whole of the thread, can only say that is just truly wonderful!
The attention to detail is pretty staggering, just a beautiful piece of kit!
theorangemachine
28-07-2020, 09:17
Have you taken delivery of your Bigbottle mk3, If so what are your thoughts on it?
I’m currently in the market for a new phono stage and the Bigbottle seems to be creating a lot of interest.
Have you taken delivery of your Bigbottle mk3, If so what are your thoughts on it?
I’m currently in the market for a new phono stage and the Bigbottle seems to be creating a lot of interest.
Hey buddy thanks for the kind words. Sorry for the late reply , I don’t check in too often anymore.
The setup is really firing on all cylinders now it’s had time to bed in.
The Bigbottle has been a really nice surprise . It’s absolutely in a different t league to my Whest 2.2 which many say is the best phono in the world under 2k.
I can comfortably say that the Bigbottle would cost you 3k + in a retail environment.
It has a lovey neutral sound and big wide and deep soundstage with real insight and detail into the recording. I can highly recommend it and can’t think of anything for the price or even double that comes close . It’s a Hifi bargain.
If your tight for space there may be one issue in that you have to get the power supply away from the phono box and cartridge as the EI transformer gives of stray flux and hums if careful placement isn’t considered but if that’s the only caveat for the performance you get then Im happy to take it. I have my Psu on the bottom shelf and the phono and tt on the top. No hum problem solved . All I can say is go for it mate . It’s a no brainer for 1250 quid. Not sure if you know Oliver ? If not tell him Karl sent you and he will look after you .
Cheers
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Audio Al
31-07-2020, 03:04
[QUOTE=Bigbird;1209984]Hey buddy thanks for the kind words. Sorry for the late reply , I don’t check in too often anymore.
The setup is really firing on all cylinders now it’s had time to bed in.
The Bigbottle has been a really nice surprise . It’s absolutely in a different t league to my Whest 2.2 which many say is the best phono in the world under 2k.
I can comfortably say that the Bigbottle would cost you 3k + in a retail environment.
It has a lovey neutral sound and big wide and deep soundstage with real insight and detail into the recording. I can highly recommend it and can’t think of anything for the price or even double that comes close . It’s a Hifi bargain.
If your tight for space there may be one issue in that you have to get the power supply away from the phono box and cartridge as the EI transformer gives of stray flux and hums if careful placement isn’t considered but if that’s the only caveat for the performance you get then Im happy to take it. I have my Psu on the bottom shelf and the phono and tt on the top. No hum problem solved . All I can say is go for it mate . It’s a no brainer for 1250 quid. Not sure if you know Oliver ? If not tell him Karl sent you and he will look after you .
Cheers
:(
So a little update . I’ve been playing around with my Bigbottle mk3 phono for a couple of months now and I have to say that Alan and Oli have done an AMAZING job on this this phonostage. It’s deep and wide and clear and detailed and a big soundstage and an absolute bargain in a world of Hifi profiteering madness. I haven’t heard anything that gets close for the money. A solid recommendation from me. I knew within 10 minutes that my Whest two.2 (which is more expensive btw) would be finding a new home. If anyone is looking for a new phono up to and over £3k then this has to be a serious consideration .
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200818/ab8b37d21b6ae4131a0080fa93a44cda.jpg
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Also after a short but very thorough search I managed to snap up a pair of Dynaudio contour 30i .
Being picked up today from Robert Ritchie Hifi , so should be here in Oz in the next two weeks
These blew me away when I heard them and it was between these and the Spendor D7 for my absolute Wishlist and the Dynaudio popped up first . Will be sad to see the SP2/3R2 go as they are genuinely one of the most complete and well rounded speakers I’ve heard, it’s just these are on another level .
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200818/d8a52036478dc7f6a311bf7d0c02c085.jpg
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Opti-cal
18-08-2020, 10:37
Wow Karl, those are going to be something a bit special.
Certainly going to elevate the system and allow all the other lovely components to be heard at their best. Not that I've ever heard them but I'd imagine you can't go far wrong with them. Now just to get those Chord IC's and QED speaker cable sorted. Not that they're 'bad' at all but as the rest of your kit is now unequivocally top notch, it'd be rude not to . . . .
Only my opinion of course mate!
Let us know how they sound when they're plumbed in!
Wow Karl, those are going to be something a bit special.
Certainly going to elevate the system and allow all the other lovely components to be heard at their best. Not that I've ever heard them but I'd imagine you can't go far wrong with them. Now just to get those Chord IC's and QED speaker cable sorted. Not that they're 'bad' at all but as the rest of your kit is now unequivocally top notch, it'd be rude not to . . . .
Only my opinion of course mate!
Let us know how they sound when they're plumbed in!
Thanks chris , don’t worry mate the cables went a while ago mate after I’d spoken to you , I just forgot to mention it
. I bought a load of the top notch Spotfire speaker cables and interconnects from Oliver and yes there was a nice step up in performance, everything just jumps out more vividly now, so everything is firing on all cylinders here. Just need to save for a 686 now
As for the contours ...
They just do everything right for me , they look amazing,sound it too, built like a tank(these boxes weigh 63kg each) , measure extremely well, have a non symmetrical box to eliminate standing waves and I like that they have a dead flat frequency response so they are completly neutral . Proper engineering. Can’t wait for them to arrive.
Cheers
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The beasts have landed . Jesus , these things are special !!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200828/b491867b8c8b643aaa647bb4b33255bc.jpg
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Wow Karl, now THAT is a system! I Bet the C30s are Epic especially with the rest of the gear you have hooked up. I expect the Bigbottle is sounding rather good too?
Cheers Jim. Thanks matey.
Yes things are back firing on all cylinders now .
I’ve had some Harbeth shl5+ here now for a couple of months and although great speakers they just don’t sound right for me . Something has been missing. They are a bit warm and cuddly and slow for my tastes .
The Dynaudio are fast and neutral and immediate and the depth and width and micro details are absolutely breathtaking.
Absolutely a better match for my system and tastes and although they are huge and go lower and deeper they are less boomy in my room than the Harbeths. Everything is snappy and tight .
I could just tell from the moment I touched them that they were in another league. The materials and finish are stunning . They are built like a tank. Rock solid. They were hard for me to lift out of the bloody boxes and I’m a big strong bloke. The missus also thinks they are the nicest pieces I’ve bought yet so she’s happy to have them in the living room. Result.
Yes the BB3 is a bit of a revelation really for what it costs. I genuinley haven’t heard anything at even double the price that comes close. Alan and Oli have worked wonders . You should consider one for your new room mateY. That would be the icing on the cake
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RobbieGong
28-08-2020, 22:26
Bet that lot sounds fab ! Glad you're loving the speakers too :thumbsup:
Thanks rob , it really does mate. I’ve been in a bit of a funny place with it since the Harbeths landed. Something wasn’t right, something was missing, and i was wondering where to go with it next.
I was thinking the Pre was the bottleneck (which I still do a bit) then I was thinking about a new cartridge, then swapping the monos.
Since dropping the Dynos in all of that doubt has gone . That reference level sound quality and finesse and refinement is all there now and the other components are sounding wonderful. I will get a 686 down the line but I’m happy again now for while and will enjoy it before I make any decisions on my next move .
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Congrats on a wonderfully thought out and great looking system, Karl! Enjoy the music:cool:
Marco.
Congrats on a wonderfully thought out and great looking system, Karl! Enjoy the music:cool:
Marco.
Thanks Marco, long time no speak. I’m glad to see you are back on the bandwagon and enjoying the music again. Seemed a shame to have a setup like yours not being used fully. Good to see the bug is back mate
Cheers Jim. Thanks matey.
Yes things are back firing on all cylinders now .
I’ve had some Harbeth shl5+ here now for a couple of months and although great speakers they just don’t sound right for me . Something has been missing. They are a bit warm and cuddly and slow for my tastes .
The Dynaudio are fast and neutral and immediate and the depth and width and micro details are absolutely breathtaking.
Absolutely a better match for my system and tastes and although they are huge and go lower and deeper they are less boomy in my room than the Harbeths. Everything is snappy and tight .
I could just tell from the moment I touched them that they were in another league. The materials and finish are stunning . They are built like a tank. Rock solid. They were hard for me to lift out of the bloody boxes and I’m a big strong bloke. The missus also thinks they are the nicest pieces I’ve bought yet so she’s happy to have them in the living room. Result.
Yes the BB3 is a bit of a revelation really for what it costs. I genuinley haven’t heard anything at even double the price that comes close. Alan and Oli have worked wonders . You should consider one for your new room mateY. That would be the icing on the cake
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Hi Karl,
Interesting you found the HL5 a bit boomy and warm and cuddly as that was my impression of them when I heard them and much preferred the SP2s! However now I have a much larger room which is almost twice the size of my old listening room the SP2s are struggling in the bass. They have never been particulary strong in bass as they cut out at about 50Hz but they suit smaller rooms.
I am seriously considering larger speakers and a friend of mine has the massive Dynaudio C4s which are just magnificent although they are difficult to drive so I would need either the 7R monos or something like the Neurochrome 686 Oli uses. I think the C4 would be a bit too big for my 12 x 22 foot listening room so I would be most interested in how you get on with the C30i. Do let me know how they sound in a bit more detail as you get aquainted to their capabilities.
All the best
Jim
Thanks Marco, long time no speak. I’m glad to see you are back on the bandwagon and enjoying the music again. Seemed a shame to have a setup like yours not being used fully. Good to see the bug is back mate
Cheers, matey. I've always been enjoying music, just on a different system! My second system downstairs, which I use for music and movies:)
Glad to see though that you've got your system now so well sorted!:cool:
Marco.
P.S Hi Jim:wave:
Hope you're well, mate!
Cheers, matey. I've always been enjoying music, just on a different system! My second system downstairs, which I use for music and movies:)
Glad to see though that you've got your system now so well sorted!:cool:
Marco.
P.S Hi Jim:wave:
Hope you're well, mate!
Ah I see, my mistake. From what I read on your thread , I wrongly assumed it was your only setup as it’s such top quality , and that it hasnt been getting used for a while. Doh!
Is the downstairs system of the same calibre?
I’m well sorted here now mate. The new speaks are end game for my budget. They’ve completely blown me away to be honest .
Such a beautiful balance with the rest of the supporting cast .
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Hi Karl,
Interesting you found the HL5 a bit boomy and warm and cuddly as that was my impression of them when I heard them and much preferred the SP2s! However now I have a much larger room which is almost twice the size of my old listening room the SP2s are struggling in the bass. They have never been particulary strong in bass as they cut out at about 50Hz but they suit smaller rooms.
I am seriously considering larger speakers and a friend of mine has the massive Dynaudio C4s which are just magnificent although they are difficult to drive so I would need either the 7R monos or something like the Neurochrome 686 Oli uses. I think the C4 would be a bit too big for my 12 x 22 foot listening room so I would be most interested in how you get on with the C30i. Do let me know how they sound in a bit more detail as you get aquainted to their capabilities.
All the best
Jim
Hi Jim ,
All I can say is that these work perfectly in my room. 6x4m . They are tall but the bass is not overpowering or boomy as it’s so tight and fast.
They cut off around 30hz so it’s a nice deep and detailed low end . I don’t feel I need to use the baffles in the rear ports. I’ve got them around 350mm away from the wall and toed in to my shoulders and it’s just sublime. I don’t feel like I need to adjust them anymore.
The monos have plenty of power to drive them too as they’re not particularly hard to drive but can handle 300w if you have it . A real good match with the Croft gear mate. A lovely balance ,finesse and smoothness that you get with elite speakers .
The soundstage literally engulfs you. It’s huge. Guitars snarl and screech with a live feel and you hear the micro details where people aren’t fretting the chords and notes properly .
I genuinely think you would love them but the c4 would be too much. These are perfect size for a medium room without being to imposing or forward .
I’ve found something rare for me in Hifi , and that’s something that will be a round for the long haul. I’ve chopped and changed and box swapped a lot these last 5 years to find the right formula and I’ve now struck a balance that is infectious.
Ive loved the spendors and their presentation but I knew they weren’t quite end game , and I enjoyed the Harbeths too but they weren’t quite the right sound for my tastes . I said I would go for D7 or C30 and whichever popped up at the right price first I would pursue. Thankfully the c30 did as they are the slightly better speaker .
I’ve listened for hours today and not got bored once . I’m absolutely ploughing through my records. That’s what it’s all about. I’m back Listening to the tunes now and not the equipment if that makes sense
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Ah I see, my mistake. From what I read on your thread , I wrongly assumed it was your only setup as it’s such top quality , and that it hasnt been getting used for a while. Doh!
Is the downstairs system of the same calibre?
Lol - no, not remotely! But it's none too shabby either, but much smaller. It's mainly for movies, but I also use it for streaming music, either via Tidal or through my own Seagate hard-drives (using a Raspberry Pi with Paul Hynes PSU) and OSMC/Kodi. I have three HDs, each with 3TB worth of music files on them, so no shortage of choons!:D
And also for playing CDs on my Sony 4K Blu-ray player, through a Beresford Bushmaster MKII DAC (with SB Booster) and Sony AV amp (which also works great on 2-channel duties), with a pair of modified Celestion Ditton 15XRs, which I now also use to great effect as a centre speaker (not pictured), along with a 48" Sony 4K TV. Here you go:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/4yOjeM.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/MLxf76.jpg
There are also two Yamaha YST-FSW050 10" subs secretly hidden, to give added 'crunch' to movie explosions!:D
And some little ceiling-mounted Gales for the rears:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/b8LQcc.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/SzqY17.jpg
It works really well in our lounge, which also has to function as a liveable room, not just a hi-fi den! I've also fed some speaker cables down through the ceiling space from the main system upstairs, so I can plug that into the Celestions and listen to them, fed from my main system, which is fun! Great for conducting blind listening tests, lol!;)
One of the main reasons I wasn't using the big system was because it's more comfortable (and sociable too, as my wife often joins me for music listening sessions) to enjoy music in the lounge, especially during the winter, as it's nice and cosy in front of the log burner, than being 'shut away' upstairs on my own... But I don't mind it for a bit, especially as big rig sounds so good!
I’m well sorted here now mate. The new speaks are end game for my budget. They’ve completely blown me away to be honest .
Such a beautiful balance with the rest of the supporting cast .
Yeah, I don't doubt it and I'm well pleased for you, so enjoy!
Marco.
Cheers, matey. I've always been enjoying music, just on a different system! My second system downstairs, which I use for music and movies:)
Glad to see though that you've got your system now so well sorted!:cool:
Marco.
P.S Hi Jim:wave:
Hope you're well, mate!
Hi Marco, all good thanks. Hope all well with you?
Yup, defo. Good to see you checking in again - feel free to make it a habit!:D;)
Marco.
Hi Jim ,
All I can say is that these work perfectly in my room. 6x4m . They are tall but the bass is not overpowering or boomy as it’s so tight and fast.
They cut off around 30hz so it’s a nice deep and detailed low end . I don’t feel I need to use the baffles in the rear ports. I’ve got them around 350mm away from the wall and toed in to my shoulders and it’s just sublime. I don’t feel like I need to adjust them anymore.
The monos have plenty of power to drive them too as they’re not particularly hard to drive but can handle 300w if you have it . A real good match with the Croft gear mate. A lovely balance ,finesse and smoothness that you get with elite speakers .
The soundstage literally engulfs you. It’s huge. Guitars snarl and screech with a live feel and you hear the micro details where people aren’t fretting the chords and notes properly .
I genuinely think you would love them but the c4 would be too much. These are perfect size for a medium room without being to imposing or forward .
I’ve found something rare for me in Hifi , and that’s something that will be a round for the long haul. I’ve chopped and changed and box swapped a lot these last 5 years to find the right formula and I’ve now struck a balance that is infectious.
Ive loved the spendors and their presentation but I knew they weren’t quite end game , and I enjoyed the Harbeths too but they weren’t quite the right sound for my tastes . I said I would go for D7 or C30 and whichever popped up at the right price first I would pursue. Thankfully the c30 did as they are the slightly better speaker .
I’ve listened for hours today and not got bored once . I’m absolutely ploughing through my records. That’s what it’s all about. I’m back Listening to the tunes now and not the equipment if that makes sense
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Excellent Karl, I think you now have a top notch system especially with that amazing turntable, superb amps and now you have the speakers to finish it off. It is now a real top notch music machine which I am sure will keep you satisfied for many years. Nice to see a great conclusion to a great system. I may have a look at the C30i myself as there are a few pairs knocking around.:)
Lol - no, not remotely! But it's none too shabby either, but much smaller. It's mainly for movies, but I also use it for streaming music, either via Tidal or through my own Seagate hard-drives (using a Raspberry Pi with Paul Hynes PSU) and OSMC/Kodi. I have three HDs, each with 3TB worth of music files on them, so no shortage of choons!:D
And also for playing CDs on my Sony 4K Blu-ray player, through a Beresford Bushmaster MKII DAC (with SB Booster) and Sony AV amp (which also works great on 2-channel duties), with a pair of modified Celestion Ditton 15XRs, which I now also use to great effect as a centre speaker (not pictured), along with a 48" Sony 4K TV. Here you go:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/4yOjeM.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/MLxf76.jpg
There are also two Yamaha YST-FSW050 10" subs secretly hidden, to give added 'crunch' to movie explosions!:D
And some little ceiling-mounted Gales for the rears:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/b8LQcc.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/SzqY17.jpg
It works really well in our lounge, which also has to function as a liveable room, not just a hi-fi den! I've also fed some speaker cables down through the ceiling space from the main system upstairs, so I can plug that into the Celestions and listen to them, fed from my main system, which is fun! Great for conducting blind listening tests, lol!;)
One of the main reasons I wasn't using the big system was because it's more comfortable (and sociable too, as my wife often joins me for music listening sessions) to enjoy music in the lounge, especially during the winter, as it's nice and cosy in front of the log burner, than being 'shut away' upstairs on my own... But I don't mind it for a bit, especially as big rig sounds so good!
Yeah, I don't doubt it and I'm well pleased for you, so enjoy!
Marco.
It’s still a fine little setup , not to sniffed at mate. I bet you get the full cinematic experience there don’t you ?
A decent dac is next on my list too. Seems to be a lot of good stuff out there now for sub £1k that really gives a top vinyl rig a run for its money .
I also need to dig out my long rca lead from the deepest darkest depths of the garage and get the tv rigged up for movie nights . Might look into that at the weekend as she asked me about that this week .
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Excellent Karl, I think you now have a top notch system especially with that amazing turntable, superb amps and now you have the speakers to finish it off. It is now a real top notch music machine which I am sure will keep you satisfied for many years. Nice to see a great conclusion to a great system. I may have a look at the C30i myself as there are a few pairs knocking around.:)
Cheers Jim. Honestly mate you can not go wrong with them. Having had them a few days now they are really phenomenal, in another league to the spendors .
Maybe a home demo is on the cards when your ready ? They will blow your socks off
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So it’s been a long time since I posted but as I’ve just finished building a Neurochrome 686 power amp I thought I’d share a few pics with you.
It was really very simple to put together . Tom has done a great job of supplying easy to follow and thorough instructions . It’s idiot proof to say the least .
As you can see it’s a proper beast. About 25kg in all and pretty much the same size and weight as my three Croft amps stacked together.
Modushop did a great job on the logo I provided too.
I went all in on this build. No compromises . The traffo from toroidy is their supreme audio grade with 4 windings to make it dual mono. Wiring is Neotech 7N ultra pure OCC copper. Binding posts and RCAs are top of the range Viborg pure copper ,Teflon and carbon fibre jobbies. I’ve sent my RCAs off to Oliver Bigbottle to strap some of his Spotfire cables onto for the input signal so I’m using Canare cable for the meantime .
So far the sound is a bit more detailed and transparent than my top spec Croft monoblocks but I now know that my 25R is the Bottleneck in my system and needs changing. It’s Cleary holding back information . I’ve known this for a while and even looked into sending it off to Glenn for an upgrade but I now feel like I’m moving away from that sound and on to something more neutral and thruthful to the recordings so the Croft’s will likely go into the classifieds soon .
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Wakefield Turntables
24-01-2021, 09:47
Great story. So what's replacing the croft?? :eyebrows:
Great story. So what's replacing the croft?? :eyebrows:
I’ve managed to persuade Oliver to build me one of Angus (phonomac) new preamp creations . I’ve got all the parts sorted now , I’m just waiting on Oliver to get back to health in order to build it all up. Hopefully won’t be too long now
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brian2957
24-01-2021, 10:39
My word , that's a gorgeous system Karl . Made even more special because you played a very big part in building it . It must give you great pride and pleasure in equal measure :)
How does the Neurochrome compare to the Croft monoblocks Karl ?
My word , that's a gorgeous system Karl . Made even more special because you played a very big part in building it . It must give you great pride and pleasure in equal measure :)
How does the Neurochrome compare to the Croft monoblocks Karl ?
Thanks Brian ,
Yeah it really does give a great sense of achievement.
I didn’t want it to lull me into a false sense of sounding better than it actually does because I made it and was attached to it in a different way than usual, but the simple matter is that it is a better amplifier than the 7Rs .
It is a narrower soundstage but apart from that there is more detail, dynamics , transparency and that warm valve haze that was around the Croft sound has gone which lets more info through. It has plenty of air and space but precision aswell . Don’t get me wrong the Croft are amazing too but this is definitely slightly better .
I need to upgrade my preamp now though as the 25R is holding back the 686 potential a little bit . I should have been running a 25RS or RSLS with the monos but the price of the upgrade (1500) put me off a little bit .
I’ve got another preamp ordered though so shouldn’t be long before I really hear what it’s capable of .
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Opti-cal
26-01-2021, 10:59
I’ve got another preamp ordered though so shouldn’t be long before I really hear what it’s capable of .
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Pray tell Karl . . . . I'm very interested to hear what you have shot for . . . I'm guessing some kind of Bigbottle build or maybe a matching Neurochrome of some description?!?! (I suspect I'll have to wait for it to pop up on here though!).
I had planned to partner my 686 with a Neurochrome pre but I'm so happy with how my (highly modified) Musical Paradise MP-701 sounds with the combination, I just know I'd be well into four figures to do better . . . which brings us to the aforementioned pre's . . .
System looking and I'm sure sounding great mate.
One day I will be dual mono'ing my 686 as it will definitely yield improvement but for now I'm just in awe of it how it is.
Cheers
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